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While headers and signatures can be faked, if the copies were found in "sent" folders of SC Asset computers they'd have some explaining to do. "Someone framed me" argument won't fly here.

We don't know what the police check there, but completely deleting all traces of a file is a very difficult job, way above the level of those crude forgeries.

People think that the possibility of preventing a terrorist act do not justify the inconvenience from those take off you jacket, belt and shoes rules.

Rules are not going to stop terrorism, just make it slightly more difficult or force them to look for other methods.

As you never tried to find some fresh scandalous paparazzi video and discovered that it was removed from all major hosting sites. You think they do it out of their goodwill?

You can, and will be sued for publishing content like this anywhere in the world.

As for forwarding e-mails it's "catch me if you can situation". It is possible that those two employees were found by tracing the origins of one of those forwarded e-mails and the buck stopped there. Now they eiher have to disclose their source or face the music. The police checked their computers,and if they don't see that the clip was downloaded or recieved from somewhere else the guys must have had the access to the hard copy either on a CD or a thumbdrive.

It's possible that the police will find some other original sources of e-mail chain and start pushing those folks, too.

Or it could be that the clip itself had a signature of the software on their machines, as everybody assumes. In that case they are just a small fish, there's no way to prove that they have been ordered to forge the recording.

Yeah, sweet talking millions of poor to get your state impounded money back to you to enjoy is exploitation, too.

walk a single day in their shoes, might want to try that in your imagination, it might help you to see the other half of Thailand and this political equation.

How about the OTHER half of Thailand that doesn't vote for Thaksin?

Poor people live all over the place, but it's only red poor that travel to Bangkok every couple of months because the love of their lives endures such hardships living in Dubai. I won't be surprised that one day they start a campaign to donate him their money.

Yeah, sweet talking millions of poor to get your state impounded money back to you to enjoy is exploitation, too.

Well, Mc2, I just showed you numbers that wealth distribution in the US in some aspects is worse than here. You missed it, apparently.

According to these numbers from Wiki Thailand's richest to poorest ratios are better than in the US for top/bottom 10% and 20%, though overall inequality index is higher:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...income_equality

The US may not be a good example for first world distribution of wealth comparison as it has always been labelled a country with first world GDP but third world distribution. Embarrasing for the US maybe (as I am not Amercian I wont conclude that) but not useful for comaprative cases and it shouldnt be used to justify Thailand's quite horrible distribution imho.

I have no idea why that poster started with the US.

Top/bottom 10% ratio in Thailand is lower than in the UK, too.

I don't know how much it matters. You hardly ever see the wealth of those ten percent anyway. Their existence is convenient to blame the elites for everything, though. Reducing their wealth will also never be on agenda. The concern, afaik, is with improving lives of the bottom 10%, and making 90% outside of top ten more homogenios because it's the interactions withing that group make people realise inequalities. Incomes in the top group are mostly intangible, like stock options or land value, or luxury properties in far away places we will never know about.

According to these numbers from Wiki Thailand's richest to poorest ratios are better than in the US for top/bottom 10% and 20%, though overall inequality index is higher:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...income_equality

Everyone will forget about it by Monday. There's no damage to PTP or the reds or Shinawatras - they are pracitcally expected to produce false evidence every couple of months. Some sloppy record is not going to bring their reputation any lower than it already is. The only intersting thing what impact will be there on the red believers, but their leaders can always blame it on someone else, so no damage there, too.

I don't agree it will be forgotten by Monday. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but the current PM and his people should pursue the leads and act dynamically.

Well, it's Monday and it's off the front pages already.

Niphon resignation is a hot topic instead.

The Distribution of Wealth in America 2009

Data suggests that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

Now given that it is far worse in Thailand's for the poor..

For one thing, I believe the wealth gap in Thailand is far less than the numbers given here.

If a mature democracy like the US can't fix these things for their citizens, why expect that Thailand could? Especially if it follows the US economic model.

And about that other stuff - reds are poor, misguided folks fighting to return stolen fortune to the richest man in the land who probably widened the income gap when he was in power.

You believe? HAAA HAAA

You know better than that.

During Thaksin rule the rich got a lot richer, increasing their wealth at a faster speed than the poor. It's true that poor people benefited from his policies and that led to their increased spending, but much of it was financed by borrowing or various handouts like debt suspension etc.

Here is a link to old Bangkok Post article on growing income gap, from 2003, the best years of Thaksinomics:

http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/soc.cultu...i/msg00402.html

And here is a link analysing income growth among the poor:

http://reallifethailand.blogspot.com/2007/...ps-and-pad.html

It would take me some time to find income gap numbers expressed in way similar to what you offered about the US - ie how much wealth is concentrated in the hands of each segment of the population, but I believe that it's not as shocking as you expect.

Income gap has been closing in post-Thaksin years according to NESDB statistics, btw.

My main point - the popular argument about Thaksin closing income distribution is a myth.

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Webfact, his family was the richest in Thailand at one point, but that is a bit of nitpicking, even if it was only in top five - it's still ironic that hordes of poor peasants are leaving their fields to save him his loot.

These "global aviation security standards" are getting out of hand and people are starting to hit back.

Taking off some of female jackets that are worn here could qualify as undressing in public (at least paitially).

This was Pakistani crew.

The Distribution of Wealth in America 2009

Data suggests that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation's net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

Now given that it is far worse in Thailand's for the poor..

For one thing, I believe the wealth gap in Thailand is far less than the numbers given here.

If a mature democracy like the US can't fix these things for their citizens, why expect that Thailand could? Especially if it follows the US economic model.

And about that other stuff - reds are poor, misguided folks fighting to return stolen fortune to the richest man in the land who probably widened the income gap when he was in power.

In Thailand the "winner" of the elections simply gets a chance to assemble the team and then possibly get voted in as a captain, depending on the other team members support (MPs and their parties).

If they don't - tough luck, as it happened in December when they opted for a team lead by Abhisit instead.

So Thaksin didn't go through that process then? Strange. Always heard him referred to as PM.

He did, always, and so did PPP.

In 2001 Thaksin created a multi-party coalition, though eventually all those parties were simply absorbed into TRT.

In 2005 he created a coalition.

In 2008 his nominee party created a coalition. That one fell apart after Newin had enough and Democrats were able to put their own coalition together. PPP teamed up with the remnants of Pua Paendin but were defeated in the parliamentary vote.

I notice you didn't take up the challenge to recall the name of PPP proposed candidate for PMship.

Of course Aphasit went through that system though. Sadly enough it didn't take the votes of the Thai populace to get him into that rather fortunate situation.

Each and every MP who voted for or against Abhisit was elected by people. Your phrase "didn't take the votes of the Thai populace" makes no sense. Which of those 250 or so MPs who voted for Abhisit wasn't people's representative?

I loathe Thasin. Truly. I am in full agreement with the anti-Thaksin rhetoric on here. He is immoral scum. I know what he wants and it's not for the betterment of LOS.

But anybody who thinks that he and his minions are Satan and his imps and those who oppose Thaksin are these democratic angels who consider it their duty to bring true democracy to Thailand...

Hold it right there - anti-Thaksin coalition now consist of broad and wide spectrum of all kinds of political parties of all shades and colors, some are probably even less democratic than his TRT/PPP/PTP.

That's the thing - it's Thaksin vs Thailand now, far bigger than pro-against democracy arguments. And this is why he is finished.

Democrat vs Newin struggle has far more importance for the future of Thai democracy than this fixation on bringing Thaksin back. That is so "na bua".

Just to remind you, the first to come out and protest where the railway workers, that fought against beeing sold out..

I think you mean EGAT (electricity) workers protesting against privatisation.

They asked people to put up yellow flags on their cars to show support.

.. Note the budget bill just got voted through. This is huge as it the bureacrats can now start spending it which will help government. The PAD were always trying to thwart budget bills too.

I just remembered to check that out - no, PAD had nothing to do with budget bill last year. It was approved by parliament after three day deliberation in September, while Samak was still in power. It was passed with 275:122 margin with three abstentions - clearly not along party lines.

At that time PAD had occupied the govt house but not the parliament. Their first move on parliament was a month later, in October.

It's not correct to say that PAD tried to thwart the budget bill.

how the reds and the rest of the country interpret politics

Well despite how odious Thaksin is I guess the millions of people who voted for TRT/PPP interpreted Thai politics as being a case of using a one man one vote system meaning the winner would assume the role of the government for a full term.

That was a bit dumb of them wasn't it?

Yes, pretty dumb, because Thaialnd has a multi-party parliamentary system and that's how governments are formed - the winner doesn't have the right to assume the role of the government. It must be shared, and it has been like that for decades, so yes, it was pretty dumb to expect otherwise.

That's why I've asked several times on this board about the meaning of the "winner".

In Thailand the "winner" of the elections simply gets a chance to assemble the team and then possibly get voted in as a captain, depending on the other team members support (MPs and their parties).

If they don't - tough luck, as it happened in December when they opted for a team lead by Abhisit instead.

In case you forgot, the alternative PM candidate in that parliamentary vote was a relatively unknown politician from the smallest party that didn't "win" anything at all and didn't even control his own men. Half of that party MPs voted for Abhisit.

Can you, off the top of your head, remember his name?

His party didn't campaign as Thaksin nominees during the elections, who would you blame and who would you declare a "winner" if he won the December vote but refused to toe PTP party line on saving Thaksin's ass?

The Internal Security act doesn't outlaw red rallies, and it's not a reason people worry about red protests.

The reason is that they don't see justification for it and can't emphatise with red cause anymore. Certainly not to a point of putting up with street rallies and govt house blockades.

Apparently even red leaders understand this better that you. The perception is that reds are troublemakers and have no sympathy. The only difference is that reds say this perception was created and manipulated by the govt, while I say they have no one else to blame but themselves.

I believe that one of the reasons for the reds escalating their actions was the uneven handed manner in which the PAD protests were handled. We aren't talking about something that is completely disconnected here.

It WAS on of their reasons back before Songkran.

Now it IS disconnected.

Very strange argument. As though the actions of the last 3 years have absolutely no bearing on the issues today or even less tomorrow.

Today's issue is reds starting another wave of protests for no reason.

After Songkran riots their leaders are walking around free, they can't complain about "double standards", and they don't, btw.

The point is no one understands what they want now, no matter what excuses you come up on their behalf.

Who would ever think that Abhisit would have become tarred with an anti democracy brush and Thaksin would be taking the pro-democracy flag?

Good thing that this view has no traction whatsoever outside the red camp.

Since Songkran there have been irreconcilable differences between how the reds and the rest of the country interpret Thai politics and reds stopped even trying to reach out and make sense.

This is another development to support the view that they are nothing but Thaksin's groupies sent out to save his money. For a while it seemed like democracy smokescreen had some substance behind it, but now it all dissipated, not even smokescreen left.

I believe that one of the reasons for the reds escalating their actions was the uneven handed manner in which the PAD protests were handled. We aren't talking about something that is completely disconnected here.

It WAS on of their reasons back before Songkran.

Now it IS disconnected.

I've see a stall with all Red papers and magazines at Imperial Lad Prao, outside D-station studio - they all seems to feature Thaskin's face.

There's also "Red News" paper sold at usual newsstands, I don't think that carries Thaksin on the front page of every issue, though.

It will be hard for reds to talk about democracy after being obsessed with Thaksin's birthday and the petition.

Maybe if they came up with some useful ideas on how to run the country or improve Thai democracy. "Let HM the King appoint Thaksin as economic advisor and everything will be fine" is not a useful idea as it's beyond the power of constitutional monarch.

Sadly, they can't come up with anything better than that.

Who can trust them to solve country's problems?

It doesn't hold water to say that the reds have been the only one's with weaponry during their protests. One can split hairs about offensive and defensive, however, seeing the yellow supporter under the expressway near Don Muang shows that neither party has been innocent in their actions during their protests.

We can argue about the scale of the violence and it is true that the reds over Songkran were awful. However, the PAD never had to face the army did they.

It doen't serve any useful purpose to point at the other side as an excuse for your own actions.

I repeat - it's not PAD protests that leave people worried now. It's the possibility of reds throwin the countruy into turmoil again, and for no good reasons - no one outside red camp can identify with their current agenda.

Not inventing conspiracy theories, just that "reds knew their government would be back in power after the coup" seems like a strange statement to make.

Well unless the majority of voters were suddenly going to swap sides it seems cut and dried they'd win again. Look at the measures the anti-Thaksin lot had to make to sure that nobody associated with Thaksin would be in power. They knew another political party couldn't win if their lives depended on it. And I speak as someone who loathes Thaksin.

Well, it wasn't the majority, only 36%, and the rest of the vote was split six ways - so it was single pro-Thaksin party against the diversity of the rest of the country. When PPP formed the govt it was forced to agree on all sorts of conditions and give up their Thaksin agenda. Basically it was: 'As the biggest party you have the right to form the ruling coalition but you can't dictate your pro-Thaksin agenda to the rest of us".

There were a number of PPP led moves to help Thaksin through the parliament, and everytime they were nipped in the bud by a lack of support from ruling coalition partners. PAD street presense nd support they had nationwide was essential in communicating public opposition to the lawmakers.

So no, pro-Thaksin party had never had a mandate to rule as it pleases.

reds knew their government would be back in power after the coup. it was only after the yellow shirts and so called "elites"/military expelled the elected governments of samak and somchai and orchestrated the current coalition that the reds saw the injustice and decided to make their voices heard.

Just a quick recap:

There were plenty of regular protests after the coup, it was so hated that sometimes even 300 people would show up. On the biggest Consitution day rally there were easily 5,000. There was no color designation at that time yet.

Red movement started with a massive rally at Sanam Luang in 2007, with Thaksin's first phone in. It wasn't long before when reds tried to storm Prem's residence leaving two hundred policemen injured. When PPP formed the government after teh elections they dissipated.

Then, in 2008, when PAD held their first seminar, indoor, I might add, red movement came back. They threw bottles and plastic bags with urine and excrements at PAD buses, and one proud red displayed his genitalia to express his outrage at other people holding their meetings.

As PAD protests grew pro-Thaksin forces realised that they need to counteract them with their own "mass-movement" to take control of the streets. People were mobilised from all over the country. That eventually led to a drunken red mob, armed with machetes and clubs, storming smaller and less protected PAD camp in the middle of the night. PAD guards quickly regrouped and beat them back. One attacker lost his life.

After that PAD rallies were attacked all throughout the country, most notably Udon Lovers mob severely beating about a dozen PAD members unconsicous while they were preparing their rally. The stage was completely destroyed, and they used Thai flagpoles, among other weapons. The leader was offering monetary rewards to anyone who could kill a PAD leader. He was on the PPP govt payroll at that time.

After a spate of such attacks PAD leadership was forced to concentrate in Bangkok and give up on holding any meetings upcountry. Red power was rising.

In Bangkok red leaders held training camps where they taught their foot soldiers to use weapons and throw grenades. Shortly after that PAD camps were bombed almost nightly. Our resident red, Koo, was saying that if PAD refused to obey by Red demands, bombing them into submission was the right thing to do.

Then late in 2008, Reds had an image makeover with highly publicised and peaceful rally at Hua Mark that featured Thaksin's video appearance (or phone in, I don't remember). From that point on reds started telling everyone how peaceful they were and that lasted until Songkran mayhem.

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Please don't try to list all PAD examples of violence to change the subject - it's not PAD who is going to oust the government now and keep everyone worrying, it's reds.