Plus

You simply ignore my comment the disgusting language used at PAD rallies in Bangkok about Isaan people.

Was it before or after Udon Thani lovers club attacked peaceful PAD rally there last year?

How nice of you to justify Udon reds violence and hatred by referring to some disgusting language heard elsewhere. Also Coke with high sugrar content and other snacks must be held responsible, not the reds themselves.

Right after that incident Marshbag was defending Udon as a quiet place, he even mentioned that the violence was orchestrated by outsiders, I remember. It was in Isan forum.

Look how the mood has changed.

>>>

One thing that should be completely devoid of any ideology is allowing opposting groups freely express their opinions without violence or intimidation. People who want immediate elections should remember this first and foremost. Or maybe they think elections ala Zimbabwe are just fine. I'm fully support Abhisit condition here - unless reds allow ALL political parties and group campaign freely, there will be no use of holding elections.

AFAIK, Jayboy wants both - justified red intimidation and elections.

The Abhisit versus power brokers and blue boys game is an interesting one. It was widely expected he would collapse at Songkhran and he turned the tables to the surprise of quite a few getting very strong "soft support". Im not totally sure it was Abhisit who called up the troops he used. I think he had extremely strong support from at least one of the four armies and the other forces.

I personally wouldnt write Thaksin off just yet. The reds have the ability to influence how things play out and in any settlement some of their demands will need to be met imho.

I believe during Songkran Abhisit set up the war room all by himself and then went on TV with all the military brass to show strength, and a lot of them turned up. Sure he had strong support then - everybody was pissed at reds. What were blues thinking? What did they expect? I think they bit a lot more than they could chew.

As for red influence - I don't think they have any. Sure their street presense must be taken into account but as far as policies and governing is concenred - they've totally discredited themselves to be treated seriously.

As a voting block they can be written off, too. If anyone wants to win their votes it's Newin, not Dems.

It is possible that Newin gives up trying and aligns himself with PTP, but it's too early to speculate about what the future ruling coalition will be.

From my point of view - it doesn't matter. Thaksin is not coming back, whatever they do without him - fine by me, they will be forced to listen to the people and held accountable.

Even Jakrapob in his recent article warned the reds that their dreams about Thaksin return are futile and their wasting their time.

How about actually extraditing the guy and make him face charges INSTEAD of putting diplomatic pressure on any country Thaksin turns up in, just to kick him out...

What do you mean by actually extraditing him? Thailand can't "extradite" Thaksin from anywhere outside its borders - it doesn't have the jurisdiction. It's all up to the host country, and Thaksin is travelling only to countries that do not have extradition treaties with Thailand.

Or maybe "actually extraditing" him you meant sending some black ops extraction teams. Assuming Thailand has any like that, wouldn't they stand out of the crowd in, say, Montenegro?

Songkhran was a lot more complicated than people think.

Perhaps Anupong and blues were trying to teach Abhisit a lesson, clip his wings, show him who was in charge. Good plan form their perspective, yet Abhisit had general public firmly behind him, everyone cheered non-blue soldiers when Abhisit called them up, and blue camp had to retreat with a tail between its legs. At that time they didn't admit defeat and tried to bully Abhisit again over things like bus project and police chief appointment. Didn't quite work, initially they caught him off guard, but when they got his full attention they had to step back and grumble quietly.

This week Abhisit blocked BJT's Interior Ministry secretary nomination and there was nothing they could say, and Chai, Newin's daddy, had to make a fool out of himself in public by trading extra 130 mil budget in exchange for putting the budget bill on agenda.

Abhisit is teaching them a lesson that old style politicking won't work on him and they only damage their own reputation. I don't know how long he will last like that, though.

Note that Thaksin and his reds have lost all relevance to this new political forces.

76% against - that says a lot about red popularity.

I'm not sure it does really but it's reasonable enough to suppose that many Bangkok residents don't relish the prospect of more trouble on the streets.Still it's a fair observation in contrast with the hate filled ranting from Publius (I love his insistence on constitutional methods coupled with shipping Reds off to concentration camps.)

Anyway here's the reality check.Thailand is deeply split politically and the Reds have every right to make their case.The underlying causes of the split have yet to be addressed, and so the conflict will continue.

I don't see political splits - there's one party without a leader or a platform, fixated on worshipping one singel individual that no one else wants to deal with.

Thaksin personality cult is not a political movement.

Russians marcehd with Stalin banners some fifty years after his death. I doubt Thaksin memory would last that long, and even if it did - it's nothing but nostalgic blast from the past.

76% against - that says a lot about red popularity.

They both, Thaworn and Noppadon, could be right. It all depends on how they interpreted what they heard from their UAE contacts.

It will be easy to check in just a week or so - does Thaksin still make phone calls from Dubai or not.

There is something of a personality cult that leaves a very significant power broker as a wild card.

In the long run this personality cult is unsustainable. First red wave was about standing up to bureaucratic polity - an agenda that has a very wide appeal. It ended in Songkran disaster. Second wave was about Thaksin's personal plight - the petition. It had a very anti-climactic ending. Next promised wave doesn't even have an agenda that people outside of red circle can understand.

The verdict day on Thaksin's frozen assets is approaching soon, too.

Sorry, misread 7/1/2009.

Hi plus

misread eh ? age unfortunatly creeps up on us all ----- have you had those reading glasses checked recently??

7/1/2009 is indeed ambiguous date - could be July, could be January.

The point I was attempting to make was ....

..Very weak government finally trying to set one single thing right ..... lots of effort and a grand announcment of the great plan..

What great plan are you talking about? By that time the govt hasn't even made a policy statement in parliament!

It was just an idea, and they haven't even figured what new agency was supposed to take over SPBAC's duties. Not to mention that long term solutions to the Southern problems couldn't possibly be very high on Dems agenda just two weeks after forming the sensational new govt coalition. Everybody was fascinated by things like Abhisit-Newin hug then.

And now you are saying that Anupong's suggestion to keep Spbac for the time being was the sign of a week government under military control?

Grasping at straws.

If that was true - where was military opposition when a few months later the govt put new SPBAC legislation in parliament? If the military was so firmly in control, why did it let SPBAC go without a fight?

I doubt he will go the route of raunchy shots of him and some sex goddess flown into Dubai or Montenegro just to get attention. That would spoil the current image although possibly also bring into question one of the rumoured health conditions.

Oh no, I meant simple street shots like we had from London in 2006. Poor Thaksin doing simple, everyday stuff ala At Samat. Maybe eating at Thai restaurants, emotional stuff like that.

Pity Nation's archives do not stretch very far, and no chance of retrieving those old images, but here is what search came up with:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/ads...gabe&page=6

From January 2002:

President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe is back in Bangkok for his second visit in three months.

Mugabe has expressed his delight with the warm reception he has received.

It is not surprising he is back considering there are not too many countries in the world that would allow such a brutal, ruthless leader to set foot within their borders.

Perhaps the Thai government has discovered an undeveloped tourist market.

Who will be next to enjoy our fair country, perhaps Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, Osama bin Laden? For a thugfree Thailand Bangkok

>>>

And from a couple of months earlier - the days when Thaksin forged the ring of Democracy in Thailand

Unsavoury companion in a Thai tuk tuk

It disgusts me to see pictures of our prime minister riding a tuk tuk with Robert Mugabe, the president of Zimbabwe.

Next to Osama bin Laden, Mugabe is probably the most despicable person on the planet.

Is our PM unaware of the misery Mugabe has inflicted on Zimbabwe, or doesn't he care? Why is he willing to sell our country's soul to such a devil just for a little more trade?

Somwang Charthong BANGKOK

What do you make of this?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Russian-Army...31#entry2844831

Interesting that The Nation couldn't apparently find room for Chang Noi's latest piece

Oh, now I see what you mean - I read about in BP blog.

Chang Noi was in the paper edition as usual.

There was an article about that lunch, with pictures, in the Nation. Everybody could grab a phone and talk to him.

The way it's going he'll soon start calling in to roadside noodle vendors, motosai stands, karaoke bars, probably public toilets, too. I guess the strategy is to get mainstream media to make it into a big story themselves. Or maybe it's an aging diva complex - need to be in the media at all costs. Maybe he'll start paying paparazzis to get "intimate" shots of him that would make it into Daily News or Thai Rath.

He meant it complies with "new" regulations that lifted restrictions on minimal length and leaf springs. That means it has better turning radius, better 4wd capabilities, and softer ride than MU-7.

Pajero is not so new, if you consider it took Mitsu some three years to develop it from their Triton platform while Toyota introduced Fortuner only three months after Vigo.

Both platforms - Vigo and Triton, are about the same age.

Ford Everest is also based on the previous generation of Ranger truck, but, like MU7, they got new engines and other bits.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/worldhotne...negro:-Thepthai

Thaksin banished from Dubai, fleeing to Montenegro: Thepthai

By The Nation

Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has been expelled from Dubai and is presently living in exile in Montenegro since Tuesday, Democrat MP Thepthai Senpong said on Wednesday.

Theptai quoted a report from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to back up his claim.

He said United Arab Emeriates authorities asked Thaksin to leave after he continued to use Dubai as base for his anti-government activities.

Thaksin made a phone-in on August 13 at the red-shirt rally to submit the pardon petition. His latest phone-in to the red shirts took place on Monday when he hosted a luncheon at a beef noodle shop on Rama VII Road.

He said he made his telephone call enroute to Montenegro.

Meanwhile the petition has reached the Justice Ministry, and there are grand 383 boxes with signatures there.

It appears the only way for those boxes to contain 3.5mil signatures is to have only pages wth five signatures on them with the text of the petition being completely separate.

I don't know what the petition format shoud be but it doesn't sound right - did these people read or even see the petition itself, or have they just signed on a blank sheet of paper?

One opinion piece in the Nation described the petition as having three pages, with one signature at the botton of the third page, but that was rather early in the campaign.

Also the first translation of the petition that appeared in the Nation appears to be shorter than the latest version I've seen in Bangkok Post. I assume that if the text was changed, then all the prior signatures are legally invalid. Or could it be that if the text was changed along the way, so now we have maybe a million people signing for one version and asking one thing, another million signing for a different version, and so on.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/worldhotne...a-cool-response

Now, to simplify things, it sounds like a big sand box and those in charge decide which politicians get to play in the sandbox and which toys they get to have!

And who is in charge in this police chief affair? It's no small matter, as the army and the police will have to cooperate when reds or yellows hit the streets.

At this weekend red rally the army will be in charge, but that might change if "not so red" chief is appointed.

Abhisit seems to be winning this war with "blue" Bhum Jai Thai + Anupong's alliance. Under threat of House dissolution BJT had backed off.

Actually, with all the analyses of the potential candidates appearing in the past few weeks, no one has made any mention of the army preferences.

[

The dates mentioned were 23/12/2008 and 7/1/09 --- that is few days - Plus- -- between the Governments bold announcment of the New SBPAC ....... and the subsequent announcment by Army chief Anupong Paojinda that the Government had changed its mind after "discussion" between the deputy PM and himself.

How is the government in control again ?

Sorry, misread 7/1/2009.

The fact is that the government has wrestled control of SPBAC and put it under Prime Minister's Office. SPBAC used to rely on Isoc budget but now has got its own funding.

How's that the military in control here?

And if you refer to Anupong's earlier discussions with Suthep - what's so unusual about this? It is Anupong's JOB to propose security solutions to the southern insurgency problem. And no one knows what's the best administrative solution was/is. Last year Dems wanted to disband SPBAC altogether, this year they made is stronger than ever in its history.

The army has direct responsibility, even if shared, for whatever happens in the South. I bet that's not what Scott had in mind when he said that generals were in control.

It's not "few days" between December 2008 and July 2009.

The "new" Sbpac WILL be under office of Prime Minister, not the army, and it will be led by the brother of the former Spbac chief who was largely responsible for keeping peace there for great many years. He was appointed Privy Council when Thaksin disbanded Spbac in 2003, a few months before the violence flared again.

What is army's involvement in all this again? What is so extraordinary about it? Spbac WILL have to coordinate with the military, and the police, and the local governments.

They can't bypass the military altogether when making decisions regarding security situation in the South.

How is it that the army is control again?

In paper Nation I saw a few more details to the story - Abhisit felt betrayed after Suthep and Niphon didn't back his choice and mentioned that if coalition party leader, Chaowarat, can't back Abhisit's choice, then maybe it's time to reconsider the alliance and think of House dissolution. Suthep and Niphon, boht aghast, turned to Chuan to help calm Abhisit down.

I don't know how true this account is, but it appears that they both know their place and will toe the line when necessary.

After the botched nomination Bhum Jai Thai leaders were apprehensive that the small matter of police chief nomination could have so serious repercussions, so they downplayed the disagreement.

>>

I don't think that because Niphon sister is married to Suthep means that Niphon himself is a sworn enemy of PAD. Has PAD said anything about Niphon? He could actually be a bridge, not an enemy.

Furthermore, I don't see anyone here except you suggesting that any students who wish to come to Thailand should be turned away.

Yes, people continuously ridiculing Thai education system here have not made any on-topic suggestions. In any other, non-teaching thread, that would be against the rules - there's something about bad-mouthing Thailand, isn't there?

They are fortunately few enough that there is no capacity problem at the moment, especially at the university level (which is tuition-driven, anyway).

Are you saying that those mushrooming MBA courses all over Bangkok have capacity problems already????

Even if they do, isn't it a good time for the govt to step in and help with expansion?

Also, having some personal experience with the 'international expat student' crowd here, they're all going elsewhere for college, if that's any indication...

I bet those international courses for "regional" students cost less than international high school education here, so no surprise.

I said earlier in this thread - Thailand can provide educational services for those who can't afford genuine western education, or, probably, for those who want to learn "asian" way of managing.

..However the conclusion remains valid, namely the perception - in my view now very widely held - there's one rule for the elite and another for the rest.

Understandable, but the problem with this petition is its stupidity, not the source.

Those "non-elites" might feel snubbed but if they want to participate with "elites" on equal basis they should get over these childish emotions and come up with something worth considering.

It's not "elites" fault that they came up with this mangled pardon morphing into petition to address grievances and also appoint Thaksin as economic advisor.

I mean - what kind of nonsense is this remark? What if the govt doesn't feel like giving Thaksin any role at all even if he gets pardoned? Reds are not asking the King to appoint him personally, and it is consitutionally impossible. How those grievances will be addressed then?

I repeat - it's not elites fault that the petition flawed. That kind of reasoning is only a pretext for creating more tensions along those imaginary dividing lines.

Not to start wars, but during Thaksin years standing up to police pooyais was simply impossible.

Not to take your bait, but do you have reference/evidence for this, or is it just another of those empty allegations?

The evidence would be existence of police officers protesting against their pooyais' decisions. I don't remember any.

Thaksin cronies made it all the way to the top without any visible hindrance, and I suppose not all juniors were excited about it, including those whose promotions have been put on hold to accomodate the rise to Thaksin's horde.

If they dared to protest - I'd like to see some evidence. I don't remember any such cases, as I said.

There's only one "factual" input in this thread - the original article, and almost everyone in unison denies its validity without providing any facts to support their opposition.

What is wrong with you, guys?

Every now and then there are reports of Thai kids winning international competitions in all kinds of fields. Not long ago I think they won even some debating competition. Quick check found that there are 350 international programs offered here (university level), I don't know how many international students they have, but there are all sorts of partnerships with regional universitities. I don't know if inter students come here for one semester or a for full courses, but they obviously DO come.

Is it a money making scheme? Sure it is, among other things. Ddidn't local universities pushed for independence a few years ago? Will they lose their reputation by offering substandard courses, and the international students will stop coming? Possibly, but shouldn't it be part of govt "hub" policy to ensure quality?

What else do you suppose the govt should do about those international students?

I have absolutely no idea why people here oppose this policy.

It is not a myth that the military exercises a great deal of control. Unless of course you wish to dispute whether or not there was a coup and a military installed and backed gov't. Why didn't they do anything at Pattaya? I don't know, maybe being in control and exercising control are two different things..

So, which one is it?

Emphasis mine.

I say it's a myth that military exercies a great deal of control. I don't see any evidence of that.

It's been two years since CNS dissolved itself, and "military installed" Surayud was superior to any of the coup makers, as former Supreme Commander and member of the Privy Council.