Plus

A good start would be to burrow the 2007 constitution, put the 1997 constitution on the table and modify that one instead.

If only you could point out how they are different...

It's a red herring, or rather herrings - amnesty, amendments, reconciliation.

Politicians were punished for abuses of power, they want it back. That's all there's to it. People vs politicians.

If they want reconciliation in that battle - it won't come from amnesty, in fact it would ignite the hostilities again.

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Not many banned politicians have criminal charges against them. Not many are dying to return to active politics - they've got their proxies in place already.

Take TRT dissolution case, for example - only a couple of executives were directly involved in fraud but guys like Chaturon were covering it up. Who is going to be proclaimed innocent? Are they going to try the case again, with parliament acting as a jury?

Then there are three other dissolved parties, are they all going to be tried separately or altogether?

That won't go down very well with general public and in the end will fill the politics with dirtiest types around again, after flushing them out.

I mean, the friends of Newin being asked to vote on their boss - what kind of jury is that?

>>>

Perhaps Abhisit is simply giving the coalition partners a channel to vent their anger and feel important, even if the idea is dead on arrival.

While some of them are looking at September to get amendments in place and dissolve the House, I just don't see how they are going to get public consent to any of this so fast.

>>

Or, perhaps, they are trying to capitalise on Suthep's weakness after Pattay fiasco.

Reason why elections are needed is because the last ones were not democratic

I know that because Ive read it 16 million times on Thai visa.

But now OUR guys are in power. You want 16 million reasons why elections are not necessary anymore?

Seriously, though, it doesn't go beyond the first on - this government has support of the parliament and support of the people and it's busy doing a very important job. None of these conditions existed last year.

And calls for elections are based on silly reasons - PTP shouldn't really talk about behind the scene manipulations, they are the ones who'd spend as much time campaigning for positions before some revolutiionary in Nicaragua as before electorate in Thaland.

Reds, btw, don't want just elections - they want reinstallment of the 1997 consitution with blank absolution for everyone first.

Sitauation might change in the coming months but for now you can forget about it.

We just ask them to accept the election results and not to stage any more coups

Why don't you accept 2007 election results yourself? Every MP in the House is elected, are they not? Why do you demand fresh elections?

You most certainly have other reasons than "just accept election results".

Spill it out.

PAD is not our competitor.

It's not your designated competitor today but in the past your comrades rallied specifically against PAD:

In March 2008, for example.

PAD rally marred by pro-amendment mob

By The Nation

Supporters of constitutional rewrite tried unsuccessfully to mar Sunday's rally by the anti-amendment People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) at the Democracy Monument.

More than 100 pro-amendment people gathered near the PAD's protest site shortly after the rally began at 3 pm. A crowd leader, Waranchai Chokchana, attacked the PAD through megaphone, using curses and vulgar words from time to time.

Despite the presence of about 30 policemen, some of the pro-amendment people ran after a PAD truck and tore down a banner carrying the message "Don't amend the Constitution if you love the country".

The crowd, many of them from the anti-coup Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship, also burned effigies of the five PAD leaders.

The pro-amendment crowd then hurled plastic bottles at the PAD supporters, who threw them back. The exchange went on for about five minutes before police intervened. A 48-year-old man, identified as Weerayut Seniwongse na Ayutthaya, was slightly injured in the clash.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30073904

There was plenty of more on that day - flashing genitals, throwing shit bags,

>>>>

A progovernment group formed by People Power Party MPs plans to hold weekly meetings in parallel with those organised by the antigovernment People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

Pracha Prasopdee, a People Power MP from Samut Prakan who heads the newly-formed Public Group for the Protection of Democracy, said Monday that its gatherings would take place every Friday at venues close to those of the PAD.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30068423

>>>>

And, of course, the mother of all latest political violence, the Udon Thani red mob:

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

The Nation

>>>

Sorry, Koo, but your claim that PAD is not your competitor rings very hollow.

There were plenty former CPT members who were Thaksin advisors or held posts in his cabinets,

They stay away from the media and their names are not well known to farangs. I, personally, can't remember their surnames. Phongsak and Poomtam have been reported as being on "active" duty during the recent uprising.

It would have been logistically too risky to perform such an act in the centre of Bangkok under a SOE without having a lot of pull.

Not at all.

All they have to do is to avoid running into army patrols after the shooting, and at that time of the day, 5AM, in ten minutes they could have been somewhere in Buddhamonton if they took elevated road at Pinklao.

Don't you think there would probably have been logistically easier and probably more successful ways than trying to stop his car in a city famous for it's traffic jams? The drive by is a traditional way of doing things in Thailand, but without some help to guarantee getting there and getting away, extremely risky.

Of course it would help, if for one day, the cameras go off and everyone turns a blind eye.

There isn't any traffic at 5 AM and certainly no police, apparently Sondhi takes this route everyday to host the same program. They could have followed his car every morning to find a perfect spot and plan escape routes. From what I know about assassinations from watching numreous Hollywood movies it was a perfectly planned job. Of course they didn't kill him, but that's just the shooters failure, not the planners.

There ARE CCTV images released by the police, I saw them somewhere on manager site.

It would have been logistically too risky to perform such an act in the centre of Bangkok under a SOE without having a lot of pull.

Not at all.

All they have to do is to avoid running into army patrols after the shooting, and at that time of the day, 5AM, in ten minutes they could have been somewhere in Buddhamonton if they took elevated road at Pinklao.

I don't think it's as simple as a power play.

Thai state has great many "players" involved, all organically meshed up, interdendent yet vocal in pursuit of their own goals.There's no central brain behind it, no coordination, they just share the same value structures that make them appear indentical at times.

Just look at a long list of red enemies - privy council, elites, military, businesmen, bureaucrats, civil service, media, Democracts, PAD, middle classes, urban population - the whole country conspired to crash their democracy.

Surely some entities within the "state" want to assert their power, but nothing extraordinary, all within their boundaries - the army is not going to control the government, for example, and PAD is not going to impose new politics. They just ruffle their feathers but still stay inside their nests.

>>>

Note that on their side the reds claim politicians and police - two most corrupt and despised entities by their enemies.

Of course they also claim the poor, but only poor from regions controlled by their politicians. Poor in the South, East and Central Thailand are excluded.

Andrew Drummond wrote a letter to the Nation regarding this issue a while ago. I found the quote similar to what he used:

One cannot ply with pints of beer, Thank God, the English cricketeer,

But seeing what the fool will do, Undrunk, there’s no occasion to.

You cannot hope to bribe or twist, (thank God) the British journalist.

But seeing what the man will do Unbribed, there's no occasion to.

>>>

I think it's a rather apt description of foreign media coverage of any particular local issue, not just Thailand.

From Crispin's article:

"One UDD organizer told this reporter that he had "virtually written" The Economist's critical cover story about the Thai monarchy, which was banned by authorities from entering Thailand."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KD17Ae02.html

There have been wars here on TV about Economist being on Thaksin's payroll. At that time Sam Moon was the alleged culprit. Now there's another one, unnamed Thai journalist working with foreign media to promote his agenda, bet it's the same one mentioned by Crispin.

That Nicaraguan press-release appears to be kosher.

They even clarify that currenty Thailand is engaged in a peaceful strugle to retrun Thaksin to his rightful power. It's dated April 15.

Good luck to them.

Having backing from Daniel Ortega now defines Thaksin's international profile.

Asking

You are not asking, Madi, you got it all figured out already - "30 coups in 80 years", and from that *fact* you built a theory that answers every question in the universe.

There's no need to prove that it's wrong - it can't possibly be right just by the way you arrived at it and phrased your *questions".

Occam's razor, people, Occam's razor.

Red paramilitaries feel pissed off that their rebelion was crashed while Sondhi walked away without any serious charges. They decided to take justice in their own hands and shoot the bastard.

>>>

Sae Daeng comment printed in the Nation was interesting - it must the government's work because the assassings used a pickup truck - it's difficult to navigate in traffic and you need government cover to escape safely.

Motorcycles are less conspicuous, of course, unless you carry machine guns and grenade launchers. Also at 5AM traffic is pretty thin and there's no police to mount any serious chase.

There are so many posts on this, and other, threads that have no tolerance for other voices and react in an angry and abusive manner that we really do have our own PAD/UDD battle here - ignorance and stupidity.

For those deranged nutters who venomously attack all other opinons and contributions that do not match theirs - you're boring.

"We" kind of agree on certain values and common sense. I'm afraid it's people who come up with ideas completely outside acceptable parameters are deranged nutters, by definition.

He is the Prime Minister and can do whatever he wants within the boundaries of the law. If the general populace feels he has amended and/or enacted laws to benefit himself or has acted unfairly, we (the people) have a choice: Don't vote for him or his party come election time.

During four years in power the PM enacts hundreds of laws and executive degrees.

We, "the people", do not pass judgement on each and every one of them during three seconds it takes to cast a vote and we do not exonerate the PM from each and every wrongdoing commited during four years in power simply because he's got 51% of the vote, especially with the kind of machinations Thai politicians use during the campaign.

I watched this country nose dive in the 90's and finally pick it self up this century and start behaving like a country going forward.

We had major construction, and the beginnings of a health service, both of which The democrats tried to block.

IMHO which I am entitled to, Thaksin shook this country to its roots and people started believing that if could achieve greater things. Which ever side you may take now, there is no hope at all of this country achieving anything whatsoever in the next decade.

The Genie is out of the bottle and with the information highway, the poorer people of this country can read about how wealthy people are in Bangkok. They can also see on television every night the difference in the standard of living and housing in Bangkok over where they live. Impossible that this can be stamped out or glossed over.

What do you mean by nose dive in the 90's? Thaialnd was the fastest growing economy in the world for the frist five years, the new tiger. Do you forget that part and remember only the crisis?

Do you mean to say that rural folks had no idea what was happening in Bangkok then? Do you mean to say they saw the difference until Thaksin told them about it after the coup?

It was during the 90's that Thailand built all those huge highways and the BTS and MRT. Thaksin hasn't started any infrastructure projects, just oversaw the completion of MRT. In fact that was his gift to the country after five years of prosperity - no new investments in anything, not in roads, not in trains, not in communications, not in IT. Five good years wasted.

Oh, yeah, there was the airport, and cracks and CT scandals - enough money to go around for all his chronies.

That meeting between Abhisit and diplomats was well covered in the Nation but they didn't mention a word about amnesty.

It's possible that Abhisit simply answered "yes" to a long list of ideas for political reconciliation, that's all.

I cant believe some yellow supporters here either - just why did the AOT close the airport - because these yellow idiots took over the control tower - and will thousands in the main terminal building causing panic with overseas tourists decided in the interests of safety to close - also many airlines diverted flights as soon as this happened - Qantas for one - and many others - who is going to land at an airport controlled by a rabble - they also looted computer terminals - damaged fixtures - security cameras - not to mention the reputation of thailand -- so get things if the correct prespective= maybe if the yellows were treated like the reds and locked up for what they did =- this shooting would not have happened

They didn't took over control tower. I believe the AOT decided to close the airport when they weren't even in the building yet, just blocking the road outside. After they entered the terminal they didn't do anything illegal, they certainly didin't loot anything or broke any fixtures. Some stuff has gone missing after they left, a week later, but on the first day there was nothing criminal to charge them with, certainly nothing terrorist.

Abhisit can't afford to be influenced by the PAD. The Thai people will NEVER accept it and probably won't show it in the form of street protests, but they will definitely vent their frustrations at the polls. This is something the Democrats don't want, nor can they afford to have happen if they want to remain in power.

Maybe, but since PAD is not a party, who do you think its supporters vote for? PTP?

Of course PAD direct meddling in politics will be frowned upon but there's a long way to go before it would play into PTP hands at the ballots.

He promised them investments, I assume from Arabs, cause China has become a no go for him.

Now that he has left UAE this investment plan might not sound as promisiing as before.

Wow! When did this happen?

Sometimes between he was convicted and when Chinese govt put pressure on Hong Kong to kick him out of there - they don't allow directing revolutions from their soil. He was ok there when he stayed out of politics but that has changed. And then there's a matter of arrest warrant that they'd rather help Thailand with.

Of course Thaksin can still call up his Chinese friends but I don't know if he can produce any results, I dont think they see him as a reliable middleman at this point.

First thought came to mind was the reds trying to kill Sondhi. If you think so, you're too naive.

I think I'm naive enough to get totally condused. What was the message? I still think they've tried to kill whoever was inside that van.

am quite sure it is not the Reds. The Reds may have the capacity to instigate violence. But this is the work of a team of professional hit men.

They managed to fire greanades into tents with sleeping PAD protesters, why not a couple of guys bullet spraying the vehicle?

The reds aren't stupid enough to kill the PAD leader

They were stupid enough to start a revolution and get confronted by angry people who they thought would stand on their side.

Now it's only revenge for that loss that is driving them. Sondhi is a perfect target to vent their anger.

Besides, you assume that reds have long term goals other than saving Thaksin's ass. Well, I think they don't, so they don't give a fuc_k how shooting Sondhi would affect their alleged cause in the long term. It just feels good.

Reds have isolated themselves from the rest of the society and subjected their mighty Isanese brains to constant propaganda and brainwashing, they don't listen to anyone else.

As a result, Red leaders can honestly claim that they don't need to pay them anymore, they are ready to die for the "cause".

Red followers themselves got their special value structure implanted in them. Urban/farmers divide, evil elites, fight for democracy - it all seems real to them, while the rest of the country can't make heads or tails out of it.

"Prem was behind the coup" revelation was a groundbreaking bombshell for reds, for the rest of the country it wasn't even a yawn - you guys tried to trash his house two years ago already, have you forgotten yourselves?

"Rural people will demand voice and power" - great, you have the largest party in parliament already, you elected them, they represent you, why don't you go and demand they do their jobs and protect your interests? How else do you want to express your demands? By burning Bangkok? Are you nuts?

"We will not accept elections under 2007 consitution" - wasn't a problem when PPP formed the government, why start now? Because your guys have lost?

"We demand consitutional reform" - yeah, you are invited to participate but instead you descend into violence. How does that help?

Sorry, guys, but your cause has no credibility whatsoever, even if we to ignore your obvious Thaksin/TRT connection which you can't shake no matter how much you try.

You've got to come up with a new agenda, this one sucks.

He promised them investments, I assume from Arabs, cause China has become a no go for him.

Now that he has left UAE this investment plan might not sound as promisiing as before.