SinglePot

Australia's economy is already threatened by reduced demand and the proposed transition in China. Manufacturing countries outside China will require Australian resources. Result.

ASEAN would need economic ties with other countries including US, Europe, Australia, Japan. Result.

ASEAN would be under reduced threat from territorial invasion by China. Result.

Etc.

China would find its way. A better more equitable and fairer way that embraces all tiers of society and ethnic minorities.

The world would accommodate and adapt.

Worth a shot in the long term history book IMHO.

Otherwise?

Yes. Divide and conquer.

Not sure you'll grasp this folium because it's not statistics or money, but let's have a go:

Maybe it comes down to whether you love China or America more.

Strewth you make me sound like an economist, a proponent of the "dismal science".

Actually it has nothing to do with loving the US or China more.

My view is very simple. China's economic rise has not been all bad for the "West" as it is had a very beneficial impact on our inflation rates, has added a huge chunk to the world available market, and has allowed us to export much of our polluting activities to the Orient. Similarly hundreds of millions of Chinese people have been lifted out of abject poverty.

Recognizing that the PRC is not 100% evil however does not imply "love" for the country or its regime.

The problem is that if there is a swift, uncontrolled implosion in the CCP the rest of the world will pay a very high price, as will the population of China. Unplanned, un thought out, rapid attempts at regime change can have very nasty unforeseen circumstances, however much the initial concept of removing the bad guys at the top may have been a good idea at the outset. See Iraq, Syria and Diem in S.Vietnam as classic examples of how "good" ideas go bad.

Obviously the US is far preferable to the PRC for all the obvious reasons but sadly China is the classic pachyderm in the room and is now too important (at the very least economically!) to be overlooked and its sudden demise would create one heck of a mess for the rest of us to clean up and deal with.

I would be quite happy to see the Chinese economy go kaput.

The CCP might learn some humility.

If it did go kaput the free world would adapt.

Not sure you'll grasp this folium because it's not statistics or money, but let's have a go:

Maybe it comes down to whether you love China or America more.

GDP nominal Per Capita 2012. IMF data. US dollar.

85 Iraq 6,305

86 Turkmenistan 6,263

87 China 6,071

Yep. China with 86 countries in the world above them.

And from the same source Thailand is ranked 94th

India is ranked 138th on $1501

That's out of 185 nations.

In 1980 the straight GDP ( none of that dodgy PPP business !!) for China was $307 per capita.

https://knoema.com/pjeqzh/gdp-per-capita-by-country-1980-2012#China

Nobody is claiming that Thailand is going to be the next world superpower.

BTW. My figures are GDP just like yours.

$307 in 1980 was abysmal.

GDP nominal Per Capita 2012. IMF data. US dollar.

85 Iraq 6,305

86 Turkmenistan 6,263

87 China 6,071

Yep. China with 86 countries in the world above them.

Looking at your statistics folium from 1960 to 1981 we really are talking about a disastrous nation in the modern world aren't we?

I hadn't realised quite how bad it was. Japan at the same time for example was flourishing.

No wonder that Mrs Jinping is impressed with Japanese cities.

Couldn't fail not to be by comparison.

CCP has a legacy of disaster.

Recent performance and the future? I fail to be impressed.

@folium

'We drown, you go down with us' is another of the implications of your long spiel containing praise and criticisms for the CCP-PRC, that I could take issue with.

I remind you of my previous concern regarding accuracy.

"To date the CCP have operated the simple deal of improved economic conditions for the average person at the cost of individual liberties."

They've creamed it while the going has been good and a lot of people have got wealthy and many have got extremely rich.

To avoid any ambiguity of communication with a westerner it is advisable to talk out the front of your mouth.

China ratcheting up the rhetoric about the disgrace which become of the US.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/513431/20131013/china-debt-ceiling-shutdown-xinhua-de-emericanised.htm

China's official news agency has called for the creation of a "de-Americanised world", saying the destinies of people should not be left in the hands of a hypocritical nation with a dysfunctional government.

Heaping criticism and caustic ridicule on Washington, the Xinhua news agency called the US a civilian slayer, prisoner torturer and meddler in others' affairs, and said the 'Pax Americana' was a failure on all fronts.

This simply proves that China doesn't understand a government of and by the people, or what a family squabble aired in public but which will get solved looks like. In a totalitarian government, everything is hidden including its true and gruesome finances.

China is a failure on all fronts. It is a copier and not an innovator - certainly not in modern world technology. That includes manufacturing techniques and products. We did not get the computer, the internet, the smartphone or anything else in this modern age from China. They got it from the West, and the West makes the big profits on what China manufactures for it while China picks up the scraps by providing cheap labor.

As costs rise in China, and the West outpaces China in automated manufacturing techniques, it won't be long before China isn't needed. With the rising cost of oil and other things making shipping more expensive - especially when the raw materials have to first be shipped to China, any cost benefits further erode. There is also the cost of Western management in China to assure quality because left to itself, China manufactures crap.

More and more Western countries are declining to outsource manufacturing to Asia except for products to be sold in Asia. In fact, some companies are repatriating manufacturing because the West is far more efficient, and can make up enough difference due to the high cost of shipping, management, and increasing wages in China.

China is yesterday's news. It's just that the first card in their house of cards hasn't fallen yet.

+1.

This post needs to be congratulated for its simple truth.

There is the bright side though. China has got 1.3 billion people who can do financial services, tourism and stuff.

Oh yeh.

China ratcheting up the rhetoric about the disgrace which become of the US.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/513431/20131013/china-debt-ceiling-shutdown-xinhua-de-emericanised.htm

China's official news agency has called for the creation of a "de-Americanised world", saying the destinies of people should not be left in the hands of a hypocritical nation with a dysfunctional government.

Heaping criticism and caustic ridicule on Washington, the Xinhua news agency called the US a civilian slayer, prisoner torturer and meddler in others' affairs, and said the 'Pax Americana' was a failure on all fronts.

Can the SInglePot news agency call for the creation of a de-Chineseised world because the destinies of people should not be left in the hands of a dysfunctional nation with a toxic government?

Or is that too close to the truth for the power freaks from Beijing?

And I remain to be convinced that the Chinese Communist Party are the financial wizards of the world.

The Original Post, the more times I read it the less convinced I am of its accuracy.

Looks a bit too much like how China would like it to be.

I am not an economist so I don't know what the cold hard money facts are...but I know the CCP are as dodgy as hell.

Much of the post from folium makes sense to me and seems to be written honestly.

I am not totally in accord with this though:

"To date the CCP have operated the simple deal of improved economic conditions for the average person at the cost of individual liberties."

They've creamed it while the going has been good and a lot of people have got wealthy and many have got extremely rich.

PPP, GDP, Rosy Futures.

http://thediplomat.com/china-power/the-chinese-dream-from-mao-to-xi/

BTW. Check out the photograph. Xi Jinping looks decidedly uncomfortable surrounded by what appears to be US military.

555

Marca reporting that Bale has a coupla slipped discs. No surgery required at the moment. Not sure what to believe about that.

He's been carrying his wages home in a sack cos he doesn't trust Spanish banks!

Yep. Higuain had the same problem a few years ago.

BtW. Marca publish lies.

"Implosion in China will not be good news for anyone." folium

The free world would need to find alternatives.

And they will.

Goodnight Beijing.

Bangalore becomes Silicon Valley of Asia.

They don't need the Thai people. They need the countries resources.+ the country is very strategically placed in Asia.

And a railway through Thailand would be very useful for them, wouldn't it.

"Lin remarked on the great love Thai people have for the panda Lin Ping. "Some Thais even paid for a trip to China to accompany Lin Ping home. I'm glad to hear how Thai people love her. I promise that Lin Ping will return to Thailand soon, when she has found a mate," he said, drawing big applause from MPs."

The soft furry face of the Panda. Behind the hard nosed Communist schisters, Not to be trusted.

"In terms of poverty, absolute poverty is normally classed as <$1.25/day and China has approx 13 million people (ie around 10% of the population) at this level."

Population of China is over 1.3 billion. Not 130 million.

13 percent ( near on 180 million) live on equivalent of 1.25 US dollar.

Agreed....one day Woy's genius will be acknowledged as well (not in Liverpool tho' )

Are you sure Tottenham didn't meet the 90 mins without a striker last year on a few occasions? Normally when Adebayor played

On the performance of Adebayor and Defoe last season theres a strong arguement that we did infact play most of last season without a striker.

Yep. The old nutmeg of 'was he interfering with play?'

Townsend played very well for England though.

It's called 'deflection'.

In good old Great Britain we have a very well known political commentator called Jeremy Paxman whose most famous saying is "Answer the question"

An interview with Paxman and Xi Jinping about the China Sea would be good value.

China would never expose themselves to rigorous interrogation though, so it won't happen.

It's time for the international community to stand up against the Bullies from Beijing.

On many issues, not just the China Sea.

China is a third world nation that thinks it is marvellous.

It's not.

That's a hard one to answer ...not trying to evade the question.

What is considered robust, what is considered good economy ? What provision will be enough and at what rate of economic growth would this be sustainable without crippling the future generations like the current European pension programs ?

China is not the only country with such a program...many will be surprised to find out that even prosperous Singapore once had a "stop at 2" campaign in the 70s/80s ...it worked so well now the present government is dishing out money and all sorts if you would give birth to try to reverse the trend.

Most developed countries has a birth rate of less than 1.4 , can the world afford a china with families as big as 3-5 children ?

At that population growth rate, would the consumption of resources be over-stretched and china be indebted to the nations next to it instead of being properly a and helping out ?

Like I said ...I can't look into the crystal ball and think of an answer. Sorry.

Difficult to predict when the lightning might strike the shithouse then.

The stark realities of China's economic day , today and tomorrow will touch all sorts from all over the place .

Yep.

Pragmatism is a very mercenary approach to the World. There is no faith in China, just the faith of the Yuan.