RecklessRon

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!

I do NOT need any more - you are missing the point. I want a business that generates 30K NET PROFIT. Costs, red tape, etc. are IRRELEVANT as they occur before NET. I don't care if the overhead is 1,000,000 baht per month I only care if the business is stable and generates a NET profit of 30K!

If, as you say "I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!", then why not buy an annuity instead of buying a business?

There are no available interest rates that will take the amount of money I have and turn it into 30K B per month for the next 40 years. An annuity will pay until its term ends and then there is nothing left.

Therefore I want to buy a business - that will generate that amount of profit - a business will continue to do so forever and still have a resale/inheritance value.

Chiang Mai (and Thailand in general) is a much better place to spend money than to make it.

If you're only breaking even in 15-20 years like you mention in your post then really just put that money in a bank or something else with a predictable return, and you'll do a lot better.

The only reason to actually do it would be to keep you or the Mrs. entertained during the day, without any specific goal or need of making money, and as long as it loses money less than the cost of playing golf or drinking all day then you can consider that coming out on top. But even then, yet another coffee shop? (Not to mention that you rule out restaurants, but then specifically include bakeries and noodle shops..)

Anyway, if this was easy to answer then people would be doing it themselves. Running a business is an incredible effort and investment of your time. There are no easy businesses providing a reliable return for not too much work. (And believe me, I really wish this weren't so.)

I agree, in general, that Thailand isn't a place to come to find a job and earn money OR buy a bar and get rich!

My problem is I have enough to live well for 15 years but might live another 40. Because bank interest is so low there is no way to leverage any reasonable income from it - deposited into a bank at somewhere near 3% I run out in 15 years. However I hope I can easily buy one, or a few, small business that, together earn 30K Baht per month. It doesn't matter to me if it is one, or more, one-person noodle shop(s), or a computer repair shop with 6 staff, or a dairy with 10 staff!

BTW:

Doing some math: 1,000 baht per day / 100 customers = 10B net profit per customer. 20B per customer is required if only 50 customers per day or 50B from 20 customers - so... finding a business that will average that isn't unreasonable to expect when I'm not as concerned with the purchase price, the initial income or the break-even time!

If you are not committed to stick with whatever you do for 3 yrs you will lose on your investment for sure.

You have to put the initial work in and not just expect to buy something ready to go.....those are the ones which will be hard to recoup.

Look at paying your investment back in 3yrs so if you want 30k a month then don't spend more than 1 million.

Make your product unique or special and make sure you get at least a three year rental lease at less than half your profit.

And don't let someone discourage you from massage, that's what I do, and I knew nothing about them 2yr ago, but six figure incomes every month paid off my initial investment a while ago.

But whatever you do its not a walk in the park, and you haven't to take it on lightly.

I'm in it for the long haul so I don't care if it takes a while to get up to 30K B/mth. I'm not interested in fast money, like you can make in massage, I'm interested in stability and longevity. That rules out bars and discos and restaurants and massage and...

I'm thinking things like bakery, noodle shop, computer repair ... all in areas that actually need them may be the best best?

I'm looking to start or buy a small business that I don't have to work too hard at, doesn't hurt anyone and isn't involved with bar girls or partying. It doesn't have to make me rich, just enough to live comfortable somewhere in Chiang Mai province, which is variable depending on the business.

So... any suggestions on business/locations and their ballpark buy/start price to generate 30K per month net profit?

Added: BTW: I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!

"According to my system of ethics, there is nothing immoral about" also... "And IMO neither do the beliefs of mainstream society" - wym

Ethics is NOT a synonym for morals and morals ARE the beliefs of mainstream society by definition.

I think we also disagree on the meaning of semantics so I'll stop here!

OK, point made. By your logic campaigning against the death penalty would be immoral?

I personally have no desire to let the "moral majority" dictate the rules I live by, and to depart from mainstream norms is not in any way "immoral" AFAIC.

And I think you've very out of touch anyway with the fact that morals on this particular issue have radically changed over the past few decades.

Gay rights are a great example.

Actually I wasn't talking about my own personal opinion I was talking about semantics - the MEANING of the words being used. I don't personally attach any negative connotations to "butterfly's" other than I don't want to be dating one or be in a position to rely on one for anything critically important.

Again, I stress, use the word ethics, honour or legal and you would be fine but your personal choices, opinions and actions have nothing to do with the actual meaning of the words. If you think it is moral to 'butterfly' that is your opinion, I do not believe that the majority of society agrees with you. Personally I think marijuana should be legal and it is both unethical and immoral to lock up users and ruin their lives. That, unfortunately doesn't alter reality - marijuana is still illegal and those who put users in jail are not seen as unethical or immoral!

FYI: I am 55 and was raised much differently that someone who is 25. I was brought up that all should be treated equally and fairly. All meaning EVERYONE regardless of their race, creed, colour, gender or sexual orientation (or their personal choice to be a butterfly, ). Those values are still being fought against by the 'moral majority' but I believe my generation has made great strides in that direction. Perhaps in 30 years the values held by 20-somethings will be in the majority but for now I do believe the majority see having lots of different partners as a character flaw. Some will say it shows you are shallow, unstable, lack commitment, may not be capable or have a fear of intimacy, are still immature, etc.

Q: If you were forming a business and had to choose between a partner who has been married for 20 years and owns a home or a partner who lives in a different apt every few years and switches sexual partners like most people change their jeans - with all other factors being exactly equal - can you not see that one is clearly a 'safer' choice than the other?

IMHO: Stability is an important trait and 'butterflies' just cannot be as stable as non-butterflies. (of course that is a generalization and doesn't mean that any particular butterfly is less stable than any other particular non-butterfly so I take things on a case-by-case basis, eh!)

Added:

I don't follow your logic 'campaigning against the death penalty is immoral'. Does society see standing up for your beliefs as immoral? I don't think so. Exercising those beliefs MIGHT be immoral, according to society, but campaigning for them? I don't think so. I do think that killing someone should be illegal and that murderers are immoral, which includes the state. That would mean, IMHO, it IS moral to campaign against and, perhaps, it could be seen as immoral (in your context) to campaign FOR the death penalty. Personally I am against the death penalty but I don't think those campaigning FOR the death penalty are immoral - just misguided, perhaps stupid, narrow minded, uninformed or brainwashed, ignorant (perhaps willfully so), and probably Republican...

Yes both my mother and my sister have a very healthy sex life thanks.

Geez are you from a fundamentalist culture or something?

No-strings-attached sex is a way of life for many many people all around the world, nothing immoral about it for the women any more than for the men. Even with dozens of strangers per month, with the same sex, or large groups at a time, whatever floats your boat is OK.

That's why they're called consenting adults.

Only if deceit or coercion enters the picture does anyone have the right to object or interfere.

Actually there IS something IMMORAL about it. According to the 'norms' of western society anyone who sleeps around is immoral by definition, although whether the majority of Thais have those same morals is debatable and we ARE in Thailand.

IMHO: It is not, however, unethical nor does it make you a 'bad' or 'inferior' person but you can't violate the rules of morality held by the majority of society and still claim to be moral. Better to say you are ethical or honest! So... whether or not being immoral, according to Western society, is acceptable or a 'bad thing' is up to you, your conscience, your family and your friends.

I have many ex-pat friends who are 'butterflies' with zero interest in anything but short time relationships. Some like to know the cost and prefer to pay up front for their sex - how and when they want with whomever they want. A few of them are amongst the most honest, trustworthy and ethical people I know but I wouldn't call any of them moral!

FYI: Ethics vs morals (from the link): Although the words are often used as synonyms, morals are beliefs based on practices or teachings regarding how people conduct themselves in personal relationships and in society, while ethics refers to a set or system of principles, or a philosophy or theory behind them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stepford_Wives_(1975_film)

I don't think you could keep going to school to just study languages for much more than 5 years.

There is no work visa. You need a work permit to work and the proper visa/extension to obtain it.

If you can come up with 10 million baht to invest (condo and/or money in bonds and/or bank accounts) here you can get an extension of stay for that.

Is that 10 million a ball park figure or is it specific, and if so why?

Here you go, cheap safe and easy to make: http://www.instructables.com/id/Flower-Pots-Tea-Lights-Heater/

IMHO: That's great for heating a room one time from cold to warm but changing the candles every hour makes it impractical for regular usage.

You didn't mention the size of the space you want to heat, although the space heater you have is obviously for a small room.

For under 600 Baht, including shipping I bought one of these on eBay:

800W quartz electric heater
Freestanding 2 heat settings tip over safety cut-out switch and foldaway stand for easy storage
H40cmxW27cmxD18cm

Added: Oh, yah, I have no interest in that seller. It just happens to be the cheapest at the moment. Doing a search on 800W heaters available in Thailand and sorting by lowest price plus delivery puts them at the top (at the moment). As they were so cheap I did just buy one from them but I also another one last week from a different vendor (I suspect I will give one to a girl I know...)

Then there is the other side of the coin. A Thai wife married to a Thai man will cheat with a farang. I'm no "hunk" by any means, but have been hit on by attractive Thai women about 40 yo or so who are married. Never took them up on it. I like breathing in and out.

Happens with me too..and always will happen specially with farangs..in any country, but here, to date a married woman is a suicide adventure, for both lovers. In western culture, infidelity is a path to divorce, here is a part of marriage. Anyway.....I posted this question because I saw many Thai men talking freely about affairs, even charming other women, in front of their wives....and doing things that I cannot comment here..I was invited many times by professional Thai married men to go out with them to karaoke bars full of prostitutes.....and with wives knowledge. I come back home alone..them...the next day.

Thailand is the #1 country in the world when HIV is contracted by wives and children because spouse behavior.

I think that is a down side of their culture.

I think that is a downside of their culture. You think?

I doubt that those stats are realistically knowable anyway. In any case, the high incidence of HIV/AIDS in this country is a good reason not to 'nork jai' your wife here and not to sleep with any prostitute or anyone else's wife for that matter.

I know about this situations for some years now, and may be just a coincidence, but my wife have a beautiful young friend I met months ago at a party. She was alone, and I asked if she had a boyfriend or husband. My wife responded that she got HIV from her husband and now she is divorced. She looks good. Any man will date her if do not know or do not care about. Anyway.....Be ready to be shock...because I did when I knew, and probably few people know about this.

I was teaching in a village's Government elementary school in 2011. I had many conversations with the Thai English teacher working there. She told me that are many kids HIV+ in the school, and that only the Principal knows about because they cannot refuse or discriminate them by Government rules. She said that most of the other kid's parents do not know about.. I was surprised by this....

Sincerely, I do not know how Western countries schools deal with that. My daughters are grown women now, but...sorry.... If I know that my kids are sharing the school, plays, and food with kids, infected with HIV I will be very worry....even knowing that the risk of getting the virus is not high, or that my daughters may had the same situation in Brazil and I was unaware of that......

Realistic information only make sense sometimes when we are part of the stats...and when is too late. I had friends is Brazil and the US dead already because AIDS......and I know that I just got lucky.

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IMHO: To suggest that you are worried about your child being around HIV infect people is ignorant, paranoid and harmful. Even Sesame Street is teaching that you CANNOT get HIV from being around, or hugging, someone who is HIV positive.

FYI: You ONLY get HIV from direct transfer of body fluids. You can hug a crying HIV positive person without any risk - unless you have an open cut that gets cried on! Coughing and sneezing are the same, unless you have an open wound you CANNOT become infected! And there is no evidence that it can be transferred by kissing - even open mouth-to-mouth (although it makes sense that if BOTH people have cuts in their mouths it is possible).

BTW: You are likely surrounded by infected people everywhere you go as about 2% of the people in Thailand are infected. That's 1 in every 50 people and since you probably are in contact with hundreds of people each month you will personally have direct contact with several.

Are you just as scared, for your children, of malaria, dengue fever, mosquitos, etc.? I think they are far more likely to be assaulted, molested, killed in a traffic accident or work all their lives as slave labour... some things you can really worry about!

I highly recommend you watch the Harrison Ford movie The Mosquito Coast.

"

Take her father a bottle of decent malt-whisky, to show respect & demonstrate that you're suitably respectful/generous/financially-solid, and ask your GF's opinion about what to give her mother.

Well he might be a serious man who doesn't drink!

So check that first....

If he does you know the bottle of JW Blue might just be splashed into water, soda and ice.

aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggg

Please tell me you're joking.

JW Blue NEVER goes into a glass with water OR soda OR ice or anything else for that matter!

Clearly my only option is to get on a plane and leave immediately.

Bye, bye.

Upshot: One of my bags got the handle broken and I stopped to complain and get the paperwork. By the time that was done everyone else was gone and only one 'guard' was left who didn't even look at me as I came through the 'green' zone well overweight and with a digereedo wrapped in a blanket that could easily have been a shotgun or a rifle. I'm sure they saw me over at the counter complaining and I don't think he want to hear my story or get my bad karma!

I could not have planned it better, eh!

More clarivoyance - seems to be a lot of it here - and, btw

I DIDN'T!

I asked how to handle a standard Thai / western culture issue which stems from the concept of Face.

If you dump every Asian because of a culture class issue you don't handle well, make no effort to fit within the culture you have chosen to live in or, IMHO, if you don't know about / accept the Asian concept of Face then you won't be able to comprehend the question and your opinion is of no value to me.

Your clarivoyance is truly amazing. You must be right. Every Thai that ever had to work in a bar for money is secretly married to one or more of the several tuk-tuk drivers she uses. None of them were good wives traded in by their husbands on a new model and found themselves skill-less in Thailand having to go it alone. And the kid I met yesterday was just playing the part of her 14 year old daughter who lives with her obviously not ex-husband in Sukhothai (she's just up here as part of the scam and they traded in the upgraded ticket I was scammed out of when I realized how bad the bus she was going to go on was and insisted in getting her a better one). Also her facebook page that dates back 4 years is a just part of the setup. Like all those pictures of the actress playing her daughter and all the interested falangs who've slept with her sympathizing with her being unhappy due to her situation and making laughable promises in the hopes of getting laid again next time they're in CM.

Yep they are all bad.

A dime a dozen - or maybe, just maybe, it just the ones that let you treat them like kleenex that are like that, eh!

Yes. He as been taking us everywhere for a fortnight. I've just moved into an apt and need everything from dishes to towels and all my clothes were cold weather and way too big for me so I'm buying a warm weather wardrobe.

The products he sells as a sideline makes a permanent barrier between him and her.

So he's been taking us on day-long shopping trips and out to 'the lake' for 400B per day (I tip to 500 - plus I buy one of his sideline products that she highly disapproves of).

For this occassion, the King's birthday, they all had the day off. He picked us up a 3 locations, took us to 2 restaurants (sort of supported my decision to leave) and dropped us at 2 spots - all without any charge as I bought him food and drinks (probably less than 500B).

Anyway, as I said, he isn't with her - she's just a valued customer. As for the other falang who aren't currently in CM... only time and Buddha can tell if any are important.

Ditch them all and start over?

Ditto. What's your real problem that would allow you to tolerate all of this?

Tuk Tuk driver in the mix??????????????

Only in that he has her as a regular customer for driving her. He's not physically involved - there are lots of falang ex's but he's definitely not in the picture in any way.

Advice: The service was so bad I calmly insisted we leave and go elsewhere

guess what happened?

That's right even though I never raised my voice or used any foul language (and picked up the cheque at both places) and the place I took them to was Thai, not Falang, and much, much better .... well my girlfriend gave me dirty looks and practically refused to eat anything at the better restaurant while her best friend tried to keep me from noticing and our regular tuk-tuk driver (she thinks he's her friend and I don't want get into that) played both sides against each other when we each left to go to the washroom.

Now I'm getting the silent treatment.

So... who's got them best answer for how to fix this?

Forget getting it in, how would watch 200gig of movies let alone 450 gazillion terrabytes,what's your plan lock yourself in a room and watch the computer.30,000hrs =3.4 years 24/7.

Hope you enjoy your time in CM.

Just to clarify: I'm 55 and retiring on a small pension. My father died at 95 and his mother at 92 so I could live another 40 years. With what I have on these hard drives I won't need to pay for internet or cable TV and that will help my budget. Heck I probably won't even get a phone!

Also I bought the digeridoo when I was living in Australia and gave it to my father who was a musician. He's past on and so this has become a keepsake.

FYI: If I have to pay a few thousand baht to get all my stuff into Thailand I'll pay it. My concern was having something done to me like they did to Kim Dotcom. American's scare the s**t out of me - at least agents of their corporations or government or religions do.

I'll be flying directly into CM from HK via Toronto.

As for it being pirated? I downloaded it from free sites for personal use. I have no intention of copying, uploading, sharing, renting or selling any of that material, nor have I ever done so. I'm just an old dude preparing to retirve into a foreign country and want some stuff in my own language to watch, eh! As a prepper I think I have enough to last me the rest of my life...

OP, lots of people arrive everyday with laptops. If they aren't searched then I shouldn't be.