.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
boldface
-
Posts
314 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Downloads
Posts posted by boldface
-
-
Update. I do get the feeling that a trend is forming of countries kicking into Brits.
If I traveled to Austria myself, no “Anmeldebescheinigung” is required. For me to take my wife with me under the free movement directive, I need to have the “Anmeldebescheinigung” first. I stated this is contravention to the free movement directive, and he replied that "that is your interpretation of it" which I replied that really there is no other intepretation once could take - it is fairly clear and obvious.
To apply for this thing from abroad...
Submitting your application from abroadYour place of residence determines at which Austrian diplomatic representation you may submit your application. Each applicant must appear in person at the Austrian diplomatic representation(e.g. embassy). They will forward the application to the competent authority in Austria.
If your application is approved, the competent authority in Austria will instruct the Austrian representation to issue an entry visa. The applicant must make a separate application for the entry visa within three months of notification by the Austrian representation.
This visa enables you to enter Austria, where you must collect your actual residence permit - e.g.limited leave to remain ("Aufenthaltsbewilligung") or indefinite leave to remain ("Niederlassungsbewilligung") - from the competent authority in Austria within six months of notification. In Vienna, the competent authority is Municipal Department 35 - Immigration and Citizenship (MA 35).
.... however, Roland Bauer Ast Vice Consul said I need to contact Vienna directly.
Looking into it, the whole process for this “Anmeldebescheinigung” is basically applying for a VISA for myself, an EU citizen, to move to an EU country. It is looking at employment, cash in the bank, health care etc and takes ages to do.
-
From the Austrian Embassy
referring to your inquiry I can inform you that your wife can apply for a National visa D at the Embassy.
This visa is free of charge and valid up to 6 months. Please contact us for a convenient date for your appointment.We will only need her passport, 2 passport photos, your marriage certificate and the so-called “Anmeldebescheinigung” of yourself.Upon arrival in Austria your wife has to apply for a “Aufenthaltskarte” within 4 months.Further information please visit http://www.migration.gv.at/en/types-of-immigration/mobility-of-union-citizens-and-their-family-members-within-the-eu.htmlat “Family members from third countries”Please be aware that many Thai documents, like Birth and Marriage Certificate or Police Report have to be legalized by the Thai Foreign Ministry and the Austrian Embassy.I am querying what the “Anmeldebescheinigung” is - according to their website and the information he sent me, it is a something I obtain within 4 months of arriving in Austria stating my place of residence, and that I plan to stay long term.
"Confirmation of registration and confirmation of permanent residence for EEA and Swiss nationals and their family members who are third-country nationals - application"
Yup I know that. However, Austria law in the links I posted up as sent by the embassy say I need to apply for that within 4 months of being in the country. However, the email suggests that I need to apply for it BEFORE I enter which directly contravenes the freedom of movement directive.... hence why I am querying it.
-
From the Austrian Embassy
referring to your inquiry I can inform you that your wife can apply for a National visa D at the Embassy.
This visa is free of charge and valid up to 6 months. Please contact us for a convenient date for your appointment.We will only need her passport, 2 passport photos, your marriage certificate and the so-called “Anmeldebescheinigung” of yourself.Upon arrival in Austria your wife has to apply for a “Aufenthaltskarte” within 4 months.Further information please visit http://www.migration.gv.at/en/types-of-immigration/mobility-of-union-citizens-and-their-family-members-within-the-eu.htmlat “Family members from third countries”Please be aware that many Thai documents, like Birth and Marriage Certificate or Police Report have to be legalized by the Thai Foreign Ministry and the Austrian Embassy.I am querying what the “Anmeldebescheinigung” is - according to their website and the information he sent me, it is a something I obtain within 4 months of arriving in Austria stating my place of residence, and that I plan to stay long term.
-
This isn't about Shengen or tourists visa. This is about moving to the country permanently. You would apply through VFS, and I apply directly to the Italian consulate. Completely different.
The common denominator is, of course, the non-registration of Thai marriage certificates by the British Embassy, as per the title which you have, in your infinite wisdom, chosen to give to this thread!
Not at all. For a Schenghen visa, which after all can be applied for by a couple of Thais who would have no way at all of registering their marriage in a EU country, a Thai Marriage certificate is fine and dandy. Might need to be translates and certified by the MFA, but I highly doubt that they would ever put you through this rubbish for a tourist visa. . The emphasis is upon reason to return, and being able to look after yourself when you are there financially.
-
So I have sent an email to the consulates of all of Free Movement countries this morning asking for clarification of the requirements for this. WIll update when I get the replies.
-
Oh and I just made the complaint on on Solvit as well. Very easy and straight forward.
-
British embassies have not stopped registering foreign marriages; because they never did it!
What has stopped is the facility to send your original foreign marriage certificate to the GRO in the UK for safe keeping via a British embassy. If you want to do this now you have to send it direct to the GRO yourself.
As an exorbitant fee was charged for the service, I fail to see how stopping it can be seen as a cost cutting measure. As I said above, the most likely reason for stopping it was because so few people used it. We didn't, and neither does any British/Thai couple we know.
Whether you used it or not made absolutely no difference the legality of a Thai marriage in the UK; under the Foreign Marriages Act 1892 (as amended) any marriage which is legal in the country where it took place is also legal in the UK.
Which is what the document I linked to earlier issued by the British embassy says.
All of which is irrelevant to this topic because the question isn't whether or not the UK recognises the marriage, which it does, but whether or not Italy does!
It appears from what has been posted above that it does (the Italian requirements for an Italian to marry outside of Italy are irrelevant; the OP is not Italian and even if he were, once the marriage has taken place Italy recognises it).
The freedom of movement directive says
Article 2
For the purposes of this Directive:
1. ‘Union citizen’ means any person having the nationality of a Member State;
2. ‘family member’ means:
(a) the spouse (of the Union citizen)
Article 3
1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.
Article 5
1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their territory with a valid passport.
No entry visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on Union citizens.
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
(7by7 emphasis)
I'm no lawyer; but it seems to me that by insisting on a piece of paper which does not exist, the Italians (and Spanish) are at the very least in breach of the part I have highlighted!
All that should be required to satisfy the Italians, or any other EEA state, that a couple are married is their original marriage certificate with a suitable translation, which for the Schengen states needs to be certified/legalised by the Thai MFA.
Any state or embassy which demands more than this is in breach of the directive.
I suggest to the OP that rather than moaning here about the British embassy, who have absolutely no say in the matter, that if he cannot get satisfaction from the Italian embassy he complains to SOLVIT.
He can also seek assistance and advice from europa.eu/eurights
Members here have done both in the past and had positive results.
As for bringing UKVI into it; they have even less to do with this than the British embassy; and the British embassy have nothing to do with it at all!
Thanks for this. As I read it, it is only Spain and Italy that are doing this then?
All the other rubbish about UK consulate etc, I care not about. It is what it is, and they will not change. Just a lot of posters harping on about it, and stories of decades ago...
Anyway. Case closed. Cheers 7by7.
-
Deary me.
1 - We are married. The marriage is legal and recognised by the UK governement.
2 - Italy Law says it needs to be individually recognised as legal prior to being let in.
3 - UK consulate will not do this.
catch 22.
Why is this so hard for people to grasp?
-
A "Permission to Marry" certificate?
Under which conditions can it be denied?
The usual - not capable, already married etc.
-
Maybe this informations would help you:
... no. Already married.... and been through the Gov website in its entirety. Thanks though.
-
Anyone know of the countries in Europe where this charade is not needed?
I would earnestly hope that France is one of them since my Thai wife is planning to accompany me on a trip to Paris to visit my sister who lives and works there next spring. Unfortunately we probably won't find out for certain until my wife submits her Schengen visa application in February.
TLScontact initially informed her that our Thai marriage would need to be legalised by the British Embassy as a prerequisite to her being exempted from the French "Attestation D'Accueil" requirement. But when I subsequently queried this advice with the French Embassy, all they told me (twice) was that she would not require an "Attestation D'Accueil" on account of my British nationality, and on the second occasion made vague references to "new regulations" which they had issued to TLScontact a few weeks ago!
Anyway it is, of course, worth noting from both this thread and other Schengen-related ones that inconsistency rules OK not only among individual Thai immigration offices but also among EU member state embassies in Bangkok!
This isn't about Shengen or tourists visa. This is about moving to the country permanently. You would apply through VFS, and I apply directly to the Italian consulate. Completely different.
-
Perhaps another money spinning wheeze for UKVI? I bet they could check the paperwork and certify compliance with UK law (as Thai wedding certificates already do). £95 for five minutes work?
The guy I spoke to on the phone there was very straight forward about it. Cost cuts from central meant that that had to go. With something like that, as with their notary service, I get the impression that they need more people working there which for embassy staff is rather expensive.
Anyway, we're being sidetracked.
Anyone know of the countries in Europe where this charade is not needed?
-
Well thank the lord you arrived with your years out of date information and inaccuracies.
1 - you can not register your marriage in the UK, that was performed in Thailand.
2 - Brits only need an affirmation. Italians need PERMISSION certificate from Italy to marry, and then an AFFIRMATION which is for the Thais. Two different points.
Who are you replying to? Try using the quote button so we all know who you are talking to!!
I stated in my post that you do not register your marriage in the UK if married in Thailand, you can send it to the authorities.
...which you can not do now! As I said, you have out of date information.
Also, VFS has nothing to do with visas like this for freedom of movement with spouse applications - you have to and can only go straight to the embassy or consulate of the country you are planning on going to.
Anything more to add that is completely inaccurate and out of date? I suggest you find a thread from 2001 and contribute to that!
-
Well thank the lord you arrived with your years out of date information and inaccuracies.
1 - you can not register your marriage in the UK, that was performed in Thailand.
2 - Brits only need an affirmation. Italians need PERMISSION certificate from Italy to marry, and then an AFFIRMATION which is for the Thais. Two different points.
-
^ Wrong. For an Italian to marry in Thailand, they first have to go to the embassy and get a Permission to Marry certificate (not a a affidavit like Brits get). They apply with their fiance for permission to get married. Once that is granted, they then get the affirmation of freedom to marry as well. The Thais never see the permission form as the don't care or want it. After they are married, under Italian law, they get the wedding cert translated and stamped by the MFA, take it to the embassy again who send it / or a copy (not quite sure about the translation there) to Italy to the government who register the marriage.
It is their laws so they must be abided by unless they can be convinced that although they do this, others do not or will not.
The UK consulate said they stopped doing it because it cost them money, and there was no point. Literally - cost cuts. I shoudl imagine this tied in with the backroom deal that handed VFS millions of our money in exchange for a crappy and bloomin expensive service.
-
As you say, this problem has arisen before with Spain. See this topic for a recent example.
As I say in that topic, what is required under the directive is not that a third country, in this case the UK, recognises the marriage as legal, but that the country applied to, in this case Italy, recognises it. By demanding that you register your marriage in the UK, which you can't do anyway, Italy are in direct contravention of the directive.
As I also say there, you should complain to SOLVIT. If enough people complain, action may be taken; if no one complains nothing will change.
Having said that, as Arkady says in this post, the British embassy will issue a 'UK Information Note - Recognition or Validity of Marriage.'
See that post for a pdf attachment of that note.
Hopefully, that will satisfy the Italians.
Moot point;
British embassies have never registered marriages. Brits who married abroad used to be able to deposit their foreign, e.g. Thai, marriage certificate with the General Register Office in the UK via their local embassy; but this was not actually registering the marriage. If it is already legally registered in the country where it took place the marriage cannot be registered again in the UK as under UK law a couple cannot legally register an existing, legal marriage again.
This service was discontinued; presumably because so few people bothered to use it and pay the extortionate fee demanded.
Thanks. I had already sent an email to the Italian embassy asking for clarification, enclosing a direct link to the UK government website showing the "'UK Information Note - Recognition or Validity of Marriage.' letter, as well as another link to the Gov.uk website of the exact law stating that they recognize all marriages which are deeded legal in Thailand, and fulfill all of their criteria.
Still waiting for a response which at the same time, checking out other routes and options.
Mobi - I had thought of that, and had a long list of exact precise questions to ask. My initial one was to explain what I was planning to do, and what I needed for the visa, and how long it would take to get. That's when he dropped the bombshell, which having been up to speed on the Spanish situation already and guessing there might be an issue, I already had a lost of questions to ask which were worded to interject that in real terms under EU law... what he was asking for was not required....whilst being very polite as well because I have the feeling that the guy I spoke to was the main guy because their embassy is him and a couple of secretaries I understand.
I will wait and see what he says if he ever replies to the email. If not I will chase him up tomorrow and post his response.
-
I've read all the topics on here about this, and confirmed with the British Consular service by phone that they do not do this.
We are / were moving to Italy. Italian Consulate told us that for the wife to move to Italy as my spouse under the free movement directive, I would need to have the marriage certificate (married in Thailand) registered in the UK. This can not be done, as the UK accepts the legality of Thai Wedding certificates, so does not offer the service to register them just for the benefit of other consulates.
Catch 22. Spain seems to be the same as well.
So we are going to try the following.
s
Option 1.
Translate it, MFA stamp it, take it to the British Embassy with an affadavit to swear and sign in front of them saying it is real, I am who I am, and that the wedding is legally recognized in the UK under UK law. I will back this up with a printout of the actual law in the UK stating that they do recognise the marriage. Take all of this to the Italian consulate along with a copy of the EU directive which states that I do not need the marriage to be recognized by my home country.
That is option one. Is there an easier way?
Option 2
Find another country that does have this requirement in the EU Free movement area, get in and settle there instead.
Option 3
As Option 2, but once there, drive to Italy. Fraught with danger that one as I assume she would need the visa to apply for residence permit anyway.
IN relation to option 2 - which countries actually do not need to see this bit of paper which the UK embassy will not issue anymore?
-
I will do - I will update in here as we get along. If the mods don't mind I will post thoughts and things / problems I come across in here in the one thread as I appreciate that there are many who would consider this route.
Italy is the preference, and France a maybe as well. The biggest problem we have is the accommodation v banking catch 22. To rent a property, you need to have a bank account in France, and I am yet to work out if this is the same in Italy as well. To open the bank account, you need to have a fixed address in that country with proof of address. Now EU laws state that every european has a right to a basic bank account in any country they plan to move to, so the French banks completely ignoring this is strictly speaking against the law. However, until recently, most banks were government linked in come way or other, and that level of qualification and reporting is still very strong there. If you still have a registered residence in Europe and a bank there you can use that to open a non resident bank account, but I do not. The other option which would have worked in Thailand a few years ago would be to open an HSBC bank account in Thailand and then they will open one for you in France. However, the International Banking center in Thailand closed (I think) when they sold off their retail branch here.
What we have done so far is open a channel islands account so at least we have an account in the region. They are no help with getting a bank account in France though.
One of the benefits of France over Italy for people with dogs is that Air France lets you take your dogs under 75kilo including crate as checked in baggage, and the total fee per dog is 200 euro. Compared to moving to the UK, this is a massive saving for us this would have been 1000 euro per dog, plus also having to hire an agent for customs as well. Italy only has direct flights to Rome and Milan on Thai Air. Each time I inquire with them, they say i must use Cargo and I must use their partner agent which I want to avoid at all costs having used them before and ending up having to pay black money at swampy to get my dogs out when I arrived here.
Accommodation in pet friendly holiday houses / gites seems to be the solution and at this time of year, there is low demand. However, they are more expensive and might also fail the "center of life" test if we were to eventually move to the UK. Also to get a bank account from a holiday home is troublesome with no bills in our name. Apparently some banks will accept a letter from the land lord saying you are staying there all inclusive etc, or even staying on their coach looking for somewhere to live.
Of course, if anyone has a house to rent in France or Italy... let me know.
Anyway, this is where we are up to. To give you an idea of time line,
Began planning move to UK in June, started Dogs process in August which in total takes 4 months. First day they can travel is 19th November. My Non Imm B visa ends at the end of November so ideally want to be out by then as I have no desire to fiddle about with another visa. Got bored with UK visa processes, and 2 weeks ago made the decision to switch. In that time we have been on a stiff learning curve. It is not as easy as you might think unless you have piles of cash sat in a bank account, which we do not.
-
Good. Thanks 7by7.
-
Starting off as to the reasons for this move to avoid any flare ups later in the thread. I need to move closer to home for various reasons that I don't want to go into. Initially we were planning on taking the plunge straight back to the UK, and have been planning this for nearly 4 months. 3 dogs needed to be taken into consideration and they have passed all of their relevant tests, blood tests, jabs, and for Italy they could fly tomorrow, but need to wait until mid November for the UK. Anyway, in the 4 months I have been contemplating living the the UK again, including a visit back there, I actually do not want to live there at all. Coupled to this that I am self employed, and I would actually have to get a job in the UK to get the Visa as I don't have 90 grand sat earning nothing in a bank account, and they will not let me start my own company there and carry on what I am doing now. So, my mind starts wondering to the point that I always planned on retiring in Italy so why not move there now? Carry on working for myself for the next 20 years or what ever and then put my feet up on a box of montepulciano bottles and relax.
So getting to the knotty gritty.
As I understand it, I can go to the Italian consulate with my passport, my wifes passport (and her), some other proofs of ID, marriage certificate (translated and stamped by the Thai Ministry of Stamping this stuff), fill in a form and get a visa for her. Once there, after 90 days, do all the gubbins there for her to remain with me there permanently.
1 - What visa should she apply for? Any? A specific one?
2 - When she is there, after three months, she registers with me locally that we are planning to stay long term and get a card. What happens with the Visa? Need a new one or is the system sensible that says that she has the card now, so has permission to remain?
3 - Can she work?
Thats about it really. I was thinking of Spain as well, but having read all the reports on here, they seem to make a very straightforward EU systems bloomin complicated with their "UK validated Thai marriage" requirement and I can not be bothered with all.... especially as I prefer Italian food and wine to Spanish.
-
I was in pretty much exactly the same position as you, i.e. returning to the UK in the next 3-4 months. I met all financial requirements, both for the 5 years prior to visa application and the
new job offer, and I even submitted the signed contract during application. I also registered the marriage with my girlfriend at Bangrak only 1 month before the visa application, although we had been together for 9 years, and I submitted all supporting documents showing this. Her visa was approved.
Good to know. How long did the visa take to come through?
Also, you mention 5 years. I'm not sure if I have all the docs from 5 years so that will have me rooting about even more.
-
Thanks for this 7b7. A lot better information than I received from an email to Gov website which told me to look at their website, decide which visa was for us, and then apply. It does set my mind at rest because with that then there should not be a problem (assuming that they themselves know of this information themselves in the bastion of idiocy that is the border agency).
I see your point about getting the wedding done before we apply - makes sense. The only point was that for some reason I thought that getting he in the process to indefinite leave to remain, it was a quicker route via the fiance route rather than wife route. I guess I was confused about this as well as quite right, after 6 months we would have to pay up more cash to get to the same place as entering married already.
I assume that the salary requirements are Gross as well, which might help others as well.
Much obliged.
-
Hello folks
I've been self employed in Thailand for 4 years, and due to ill health of my mother I now need to get back to the UK. My partner and me have been together for 4 years (provable) and she is an educated lass and has worked for my firm for a few years as well. Now, I can get a job back in the UK easily meeting the requirements financially which until about 20 minutes ago I believed would be OK for us to apply for her to move with me. However I am now seeing conflicting information about this (of course).
So the current situation is;
We have been together for 4 years. We and she have no children. Not officially married, but we had a wedding party with my family here in Thailand 15 months ago. Should we pop to the amphur and make it official now? Is it better to be married than engaged / partner?
I have little in the way of savings so would need to rely on offer of employment which would be genuine from a company I worked for in the UK before moving to Asia.
My parents have an empty house we would move to if that helps.
We plan to move in 3-4 months time.
I honestly get so confused with all of this. I can not work out which is best to apply for, and if indeed an offer of employment is sufficient. If not, would I then have to go back to the UK by myself for 6 months prior to her coming over?
-
Durex Comfort, sold in most 7/11 and pharmacy, are size 56. Buy them instead.
So the British Embassy will not register our marriage... so what now?
in Visas and migration to other countries
Posted
Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about.
This thread is about an British EU citizen moving to another country in Europe that is not his country of origin, with his Thai wife, that were married in Thailand. Its not about schenghens, marriages, work permits or anything else.