Spanish embassy demands Schengen visa fee from spouse of EU citizen

[Arkady]

As many of you who are EU citizens with non-EU family members are aware, the Schengen Treaty provides for 'freedom of movement' for non-EU family members when accompanying the EU citizen on short visits to Schengen states, other than the EU citizen's own country. The Schengen Treaty makes clear that such family members should be permitted to apply for visas at the EU country's embassy, not an outsourced service centre. An expedited visa service must be provided. Visas are to be provided free of charge and it is illegal to ask for personal information that might impinge on the 'freedom of movement concept', e.g. employment details, bank statements, hotel reservations etc. What is required is evidence of the relationship with the EU citizen and evidence that the non-EU family member will either travel with the EU citizen or join or be joined by him or her. To verify this, embassies are entitled to ask for evidence of travel reservations, an itinerary and a letter confirming the details of the trip from the EU citizen. in recognition of the exemption from the need to provide information on financial means etc, a number of the questions on the standard Schengen application form are asterixed with a footnote that says that family members of EU citizens shall not complete those sections.

Two years ago I applied for a Schengen visa for Spain for Mrs Arkady at the then new VFS outsource centre for Spain, since the embassy were refusing to allow Schengen applications direct in breach of Schengen regulations. We had a bit of an argument with the VFS staff who tried to demand bank statements, visa fee etc but eventually the application was accepted on the basis of a Thai marriage certificate, translated and notarised by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and legalised by the British Embassy. No visa fee was charged but we were forced to pay a 'service fee' equivalent to 20 euros to VFS. The visa was issued about 2 weeks later without further ado.

Since then, VFS has posted confusing and contradictory statements in poor English on its website about a requirement to provide further evidence that a marriage abroad is also recognised as legal in the EU citizen's home country. At one point they say that a 'letter of authorisation' from the EU citizen's embassy to prove that the overseas marriage is considered a legal marriage in that country. They say, further, that a mere stamp from the embassy will not do, e.g. the legalisation stamp provided by the British Embassy. Elsewhere in the website, however, they say that the marriage should be legalised by the EU citizen's embassy, according to that EU embassy's 'consular prodedure', e.g. the legalisation stamp provided by the British Embassy.

Given this confusing information I decided to email VFS, the Spanish Embassy and the British Embassy for further clarification beforehand. VFS replied with a series of non-sequiturs in almost incomprehensible English that suggested they didn't understand or didn't want to understand the questions. The Spanish Embassy sent an automated reply acknowledging the enquiry and saying they would eventually get around to replying but never did. The British Embassy replied the same day, confirming that the legalisation stamp is the only confirmation of a foreign marriage they are authorised to provide and implied that should be adequate for a foreign embassy. They explained further that any foreign marriage where both parties have provided informed consent to be married is recognised under British law and that the reason they cannot provide further confirmation of the legal status of a foreign marriage is that in England and Wales (no mention of Scotland and N. Ireland) only the courts are authorised to do this. (Such court cases seem likely to occur only when the informed consent of one of the parties to a foreign marriage is in doubt, as in child bride cases.) Actually a very detailed, logical, helpful and prompt reply from the British Embassy that gives me a new respect for them.

The VFS website has actually rectified the Spanish Embassy's previous non-compliance with the Schengen Treaty by informing family members of EU citizens that they may apply for an appointment with the embassy direct and thereby save VFS's 20 euro sevice fee. Given that we were pushed for time, as we had to apply for the visa immediately on our return from another overseas trip, I decided to accept the VFS service fee and we applied for an appointment there for our first working day back in Thailand. I came armed with the replies from the British Embassy but the staff member seemed to know all about the British Embassy's consular practice for legalising foreign marriages and accepted the application without demanding the 60 euros visa fee or bank statements or other financial needs information required of regular applicants. So far so good.

Then 10 days later Mrs Arkady got a call from VFS telling her that the Spanish Embassy required her to pay the equivalent of the 60 euros visa fee from which family members of EU citizens are supposedly exempted under the Schengen Treaty. Having no desire to cancel the trip, we went to VFS the next day and paid the fee. No one there could explain why she had been asked to pay the regular fee but all said mysteriously there were many cases like ours. No receipt was provided at the time, although VFS said that the embassy would include one on return of the passport. However, as of this moment, we have no evidence that we have paid this superfluous fee. Strangely (but luckily), if the embassy decided that Mrs Arkady is not legally married to an EU citizen, they didn't demand any information on financial means etc. Seemingly they are only interested in her 60 euros, assuming this is not a scam from VFS, which I don't think it is.

Now we are wondering if we will get the visa at all, or whether the embassy will string things out with further demands until we just have to cancel the trip and demand the passport back.

[sandyf]

I also had a problem with VFS when I did a Spanish visa last year. They seem to be hung up on proving the legality of the marriage. I managed to overcome the problem but it wasn't easy. If i remember right we had to pay 800 baht service fee to VFS.

The visa is free to family members of EU nationals so if they are asking for the fee there must be some doubt over the relationship and this is what need to be clarified.

I did one for Germany this year and when they asked to see the marriage certificate I pointed out that my wife had a family visa for the UK in her passport and they lost all interest in the marriage certificate. May not be applicable but worth bearing in mind.

The Germans were also making excessive demands on the application process so I took the matter to SOLVIT, you can see what transpired in these threads.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/826818-solvit-not-such-a-simple-answer/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/822487-schengen-visa-for-germany-videx/

Good Luck

[Arkady]

Mine also has a 10 year UK family visit visa but it doesn't specify it is a family visit visa, just C visa which is for all kinds of visits. The embassy must have looked at it anyway, as they would have checked she had a visa for the UK for the flight out of Spain.

Here is the reply I got from the British Embassy with the information they send me about recognition of foreign marriages in a Pdf attachment.

Dear Mr Arkady,

Thank you for contacting Consular Enquiries.

We can confirm that there is no provision of a further register/legalise/issue a letter confirm the Thai marriage here at the British Embassy Bangkok. However the Embassy provide the free informative note that may be required for a variety of procedures in Thailand. ( please see file attached)

Regards,

Consular Officer

I am getting fed with this BS from Schengen countries. It is basically a scam to intimidate people into paying their fees, knowing that most are either in a hurry or don't know their rights or both. I have had to argue this point with the Germans, the Swiss and the Spanish before. On this occasion there is no one to even argue with this, as VFS are just automatons. I also object to the fact that they give visas only for the exact days of the itinerary allowing no flexibility for flight cancellations etc. I am thinking that, in future, we will just fly over these countries and not bother to drop down to spend our hard earned cash there.

UK information note-Recognition or Validity of Marriage.pdf

[beano2274]

never had any issues, used the Swiss and Italian Embassies, never charged a single satang, also for my mother in law.

On another Point / Only problem I have encountered is using my wifes German Residence card with @Family member of an EU Citizen@ stamped all over it to try and get out of Europe into the UK. British Airways staff always have phoned UK immigration, but Lufthansa always ask for a Visa, and I have to always tell them it is not a requirement, other airlines say I should contact the UK Embassy, but they know nothing, that is why I carry a letter from UKVI.

[7by7]

As detailed in other topics, the Spanish are in direct contravention of the rules.

Complaints to SOLVIT do work,sometimes; and if enough people complain then the Spanish should be forced to comply with the rules.

If no one complains, nothing will change.

[Arkady]

I am not expecting to get my money back but will probably complain to SOLVIT and/or the Spanish Foreign Ministry for the reason that 7by7 mentioned. My earlier experience with SOLVIT was disappointing. I complained to them that the German Embassy had demanded an employment letter from my wife and SOLVIT took nearly two months to reply in very poor English that the German Embassy was entitled to ask for any documents they thought relevant. I remember that someone else complained to the German Foreign Ministry soon after that episode that their Bangkok embassy had slyly removed the asterix from the question about employment on their application forms. Apparently it worked as the asterix was restored.

Given the mess the whole Schengen system is in with thousands of refugees and economic migrants flooding across borderless Europe without visas, you would think European governments had more pressing issues to worry about than trying to cheat EU citizens out of their right to take family members to Europe for a few days' holiday without intimidation and being shaken down for cash.

[sandyf]

As detailed in other topics, the Spanish are in direct contravention of the rules.

Not if the relationship has not been proven to their satisfaction, and this is what must be clarified..

It is my understanding that a Thai marriage certificate must be legalised by the MFA and the OP did state that this was done in the first application which was approved. He did also state that this application was done in a hurry, was a new legalised translation obtained or a copy of the previous used. May have been rejected as not being an original.

It is quite scandalous that a second application gets turned down when the circumstances are the same but before any complaint can be made the applicant must have done what was required.

[7by7]

All that is needed to prove the marriage is the actual marriage certificate and, if necessary, a translation of that certificate into an EEA language.

By demanding more than this, the Spanish are, in my opinion and that of others far more knowledgeable than I, in direct contravention of the directive. (Directive in full and plain English explanation of same.)

Whether or not a third country, e.g. the UK, recognises a marriage is irrelevant; all that is required is that the Spanish recognise it. Surely they must recognise Thai marriages, otherwise how do they deal with Spanish nationals who have married in Thailand, whether to a Thai or not?

Certainly by insisting that applicants use an outsourcing centre by charging any sort of fee and by asking for more than the minimal evidence listed in the directive they are in breach of that directive.

Hopefully if people affected by all this do complain to SOLVIT then the Spanish will change their ways; eventually.

It is not the Thai marriage certificate which most (all?) Schengen states require to be legalised by the Thai MFA; it is, after all, already a legal document in most countries, certainly in Thailand!

It is the translation which they require to be legalised.

BTW, the UK does not require this legalisation of the translation; a simple certificate by the translator which contains

• confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original document
• the date of the translation
• the translator's full name and signature
• the translator's contact details

is all that is required for all UK purposes, including visa and LTR applications.

However, it is, of course, worthwhile having the translation legalised by the MFA while still in Thailand in case one needs it later once in the UK; e.g. for a Schengen visa application.

[MaeJoMTB]

Presumably I would have no problem using my son's British birth certificate (registered with the British Embassy in Thailand) as proof of family relationship, were we to apply for a VISA to travel together in Spain.

[7by7]

Parents are not usually counted as qualifying family members under the directive unless they are completely financially dependent upon their child.

However, they may be covered under 'other beneficiaries' if, for example, they are members the same household as the EEA national.

But you would have to satisfy the Spanish on that point.

[MaprangHolmes]

If applying for at the Spanish consulate in Spain which I would recommend if you are within there catchment area, is not very hard indeed I have applied for a few visas from there for my wife and have been granted them every time the document I submitted where:

My Uk Passport

wife's Thai passport

marriage certificate translated in to English and certified by the Thai embassy in London

Plane tickets showing I am Traveling with her

Her BRP

Hotel Voucher ( Not really needed but included it anyway)

Invoice (Again not really need but included it anyway)

Completed application form but most of it did not apply to her

That is about all and I have been granted them every time the last one they got the passport back to me within a few days of giving to them and also I have never paid any fee to the consulate for said visa.

[sandyf]

Whether or not a third country, e.g. the UK, recognises a marriage is irrelevant; all that is required is that the Spanish recognise it. Surely they must recognise Thai marriages, otherwise how do they deal with Spanish nationals who have married in Thailand, whether to a Thai or not?

The Spanish do not recognise a Thai marriage certificate, they require all documents in Spanish or English and quite thorough regarding validity.

I have only done the Spanish Schengen visa the once, you are obviously a lot more experienced with the Spanish Visa service in Bangkok and may well have a different perspective.

[billphillips]

Use common sense rather than indignation and principles. Get the visa you need at the French embassy without any problems, questions or restrictions of use. Enter or travel to any Shenzhen state that you choose to. Relax a little, try to enjoy your life instead of constantly straining your arse mussels and stressing your brain unnecessarily.

[sandyf]

Certainly by insisting that applicants use an outsourcing centre by charging any sort of fee and by asking for more than the minimal evidence listed in the directive they are in breach of that directive.

Hopefully if people affected by all this do complain to SOLVIT then the Spanish will change their ways; eventually.

There was nothing mentioned about excessive evidence and in my case, once the legality of the marriage was accepted no further evidence was required.

Until there is some explanation as to why a fee was applied, there is no grounds for complaint.

If the application was converted to a standard application on a minor technicality with the application, it could hardly be seen as a breach of the regulations.

[7by7]

Whether or not a third country, e.g. the UK, recognises a marriage is irrelevant; all that is required is that the Spanish recognise it. Surely they must recognise Thai marriages, otherwise how do they deal with Spanish nationals who have married in Thailand, whether to a Thai or not?

The Spanish do not recognise a Thai marriage certificate, they require all documents in Spanish or English and quite thorough regarding validity.

I have only done the Spanish Schengen visa the once, you are obviously a lot more experienced with the Spanish Visa service in Bangkok and may well have a different perspective.

Where in the part of my post which you have quoted have I mentioned the Thai marriage certificate?

The part you have quoted is about the legality of the marriage itself!

Are you saying that, in your experience, the Spanish do not recognise a Thai marriage?

As I say in the first line of that post:"All that is needed to prove the marriage is the actual marriage certificate and, if necessary, a translation of that certificate into an EEA language."

Obviously, if the marriage took place in Thailand, and many other countries, then such a translation of the marriage certificate will be required.

Also, as I say later in that post: "It is not the Thai marriage certificate which most (all?) Schengen states require to be legalised by the Thai MFA; it is, after all, already a legal document in most countries, certainly in Thailand!

It is the translation which they require to be legalised."

[7by7]

Certainly by insisting that applicants use an outsourcing centre by charging any sort of fee and by asking for more than the minimal evidence listed in the directive they are in breach of that directive.

Hopefully if people affected by all this do complain to SOLVIT then the Spanish will change their ways; eventually.

There was nothing mentioned about excessive evidence and in my case, once the legality of the marriage was accepted no further evidence was required.

Until there is some explanation as to why a fee was applied, there is no grounds for complaint.

If the application was converted to a standard application on a minor technicality with the application, it could hardly be seen as a breach of the regulations.

There is every ground for complaint!

The regulations are very clear.

Qualifying family members of EEA nationals who are travelling with or to join their EEA national family member should not be charged any sort of fee and their application processed with the minimum of delay.

All that is required is evidence of the relationship, e.g. a marriage certificate, suitably translated if necessary, and a statement that they are, indeed, travelling with or to join their EEA national family member. Though many people, like MaprangHolmes, also include tickets and/or hotel bookings, this is not required under the regulations.

There is no technicality, minor or otherwise, which can change that.

Considering your previous experiences with the Spanish, I am surprised that you seem so eager to defend their blatant breach of the regulations!

[Richard W]

Given the mess the whole Schengen system is in with thousands of refugees and economic migrants flooding across borderless Europe without visas, you would think European governments had more pressing issues to worry about than trying to cheat EU citizens out of their right to take family members to Europe for a few days' holiday without intimidation and being shaken down for cash.

Note that David Cameron, speaking as prime minister of the UK, has declared that this whole expedited visa process is an abuse. You should not, in his opinion, find it any easier for you to take your wife to Spain than a Spaniard would. He may recommend that the UK withdraw from the EU if this expedited visa process is not scrapped. I think he expects to win on this issue.

[Eff1n2ret]

Given the mess the whole Schengen system is in with thousands of refugees and economic migrants flooding across borderless Europe without visas, you would think European governments had more pressing issues to worry about than trying to cheat EU citizens out of their right to take family members to Europe for a few days' holiday without intimidation and being shaken down for cash.

Note that David Cameron, speaking as prime minister of the UK, has declared that this whole expedited visa process is an abuse. You should not, in his opinion, find it any easier for you to take your wife to Spain than a Spaniard would. He may recommend that the UK withdraw from the EU if this expedited visa process is not scrapped. I think he expects to win on this issue.

What he actually said is this:-

"Next, we need to create the toughest possible system for dealing with abuse of free movement.

That includes tougher and longer re-entry bans for fraudsters and people who collude in sham marriages.

It means addressing the fact that it is easier for an EU citizen to bring a non-EU spouse to Britain than it is for a British citizen to do the same.

It means stronger powers to deport criminals and stop them coming back, as well as preventing entry in the first place.

And it means addressing ECJ judgments that have widened the scope of free movement in a way that has made it more difficult to tackle this kind of abuse."

I'm sure he doesn't mean that it should be as easy to get a UK settlement visa as it is to get an EU Family Permit, and you are of course right that the change he is obviously seeking could affect Brits taking their non-EU spouses ​to Europe as well as putting an end to the 'Surinder Singh' route. Whatever the opinions of contributors to ThaiVisa, I would suspect that the majority of the UK electorate would agree with the above paragraph.

​

[bobrussell]

The rules are clear but many countries have just decided to ignore them. SOLVIT are worth a go but they admitted in a letter that they did not expect the UK government to comply.

Sadly it is a bit like flogging a dead horse! The UK authorities are every bit as obstructive as the Spanish as we have found to our cost.