Blackfox

When I met the lovely girl I later married here in BKK, she also had two Thai guys courting her.

One owns a hotel in Hua Hin, the other comes from a family of wealth. He wears Armani and drives a black Mercedes Benz.

Why did she not choose a man of equal or higher status within her own culture? I have questioned this more than once.

The first; was more a friend and there was not the physical attraction or chemistry. He is slightly shorter in height to that of my wife.

The second; she did not feel at ease within his presence. More the case, she would have to change the person she is, to fit his ego, family, and lifestyle. Also a great likelihood there'd be infidelity. She would not accept.

Why me?

We are both middle class and University educated. We've both worked hard in our respective careers and possess similar ideals and wishes for the future (our future).

I am just a little older.

Physically, we are both tall and lean. We look great together and out bodies match.

She is 176cm and was naturally attracted to a tall, physically strong lean man with hair and no tattoos.

Financial stability is a factor also; that's on both sides.

We both first had a genuine physical attraction, and found we have similar wishes, wants, drives and desires.

We are honest and our fidelity will never be compromised.

We love one another beyond belief.

It makes me happy to see other younger western men partnered with same in Thai girl. Yes, the trend is changing.

some of you are expecting great things from UK politicians ...... well without wanting to dissapoint , parliment just went in to summer recess , this week it's been pouring with rain , and the temp today about 16 C .

most MP will be off to the continent , and not be heard of until mid september .

Don't worry bud, that's perhaps just the time they'll be needed and judging by the strength of people's opinions here, anything less will not be accepted.

Loonodingle,

Well, I'll forget the quantifiable measure and precedent. You're a star.

You've just provided the gentleman's contact details.

I'll email a respectful query first perhaps with the question;

Can a formal petition be written, signed and forwarded to you on behalf of the expat (all nationalities), or Commonwealth and/or British residents current, non current, travelers and business individuals to effect action against the deplorable case at hand, or verdict following the case which sees justice for two of your nationals unresolved?

[

This is how it should work.

Minister for the Far East and South East Asia Hugo Swire should summons the Thai Chargé d’Affaires to the UK, Mr. Nadhavathna Krishnamra, to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

As he done last year.

Then he tells him that he will increase the travel alert status of Thailand to Do Not Travel. This kicks in some problems with travel insurance etc and people don't go.

When they get this issue resolved then he resets the status after being confident that crime and justice is a priority of the leaders.

This a refresher for you all if you have forgotten..

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127396/prayuth-british-have-no-problem-with-thai-investigation-into-death-of-the-2-tourists/

Loonodingle,

Can the Minister for the Far East and South East Asia, Hugo Swire, be petitioned by British citizens, families of the victims, and general public?

Is there a quantifiable measure or precedent that could effect this action should the outcome of the trial fail?

That's failing the two British souls.

I read people imploring the UK government to get involved.

Beyond asking the question there is little they can do.

Most countries, UK included, have access arrangements but can only assist in case of emergencies, death, serious illness, war etc.

It is not feasible or practical to allow foreign police forces to come and investigate a crime in another country.

If that were the case then policing would descend into farce every time a foreign national was killed with other police forces charging all over the place.

You can show interest. Ask questions. But that's about it.

And that has to be right.

The Foreign office will tell you this. They cannot get involved in solving crime outside of the UK unless specifically asked, just to attempt to alleviate suffering of relatives where they can.

Now, the Thai police do seem to have made a mess of this in so many ways and I am sure there are those who are staring in disbelief but there's not a lot the UK can do.

The UK police were 'allowed' to come here of course but maybe only allowed to see what they were shown which might have been not much.

However we have heard very little since.

Have they got something?

We don't know but whilst the UK police themselves have not in some cases been shown to be perfect they are very good at spotting inconsistencies and bad practice.

My guess is they have got something. The defence team have been informed and advised and we are waiting for the 'hammer to fall' at the appropriate time.

Interesting things are now being dragged out. Didn't check CCTV at the pier, DNA doubts, no investigation of the rumoured altercation at the bar, clothing on people seen rip inning away onCCTV not matching the Burmese boys may all be questions being suggested by the UK police based just in observation of how the Thai police conducted the investigation.

I say again 'may'.

Just in passing about the rumoured altercation. Wasn't there CCTV footage of Hannah leaving the bar pursued by what looked like an irate guy who seemed to be shouting and pointing at her?

Maybe there was a problem in the bar, a rebuttal of an unwelcome suggestion or advance and she stormed out?

I can't believe her friends or David's friends have not been interviewed by UK police and if so, well.

I still think this will end up with the case being thrown out on a technicality.

Maybe corrupt and unsubstantiated evidence,

The court is clear. The Thai police let off the hook. The boys freed. Then it can all just go away.

No 'loss of face' for anyone.

The aftermath.....

Hannah and David's families have no closure. The bar is still open. There are still murderers on the loose to do it again, those that have covered it all up free to just carry on and the police allowed to get ready to pursue their next 'investigation'.

I think this has reached the stage where there can be no satisfactory outcome unless the boys are found unequivocally guilty using verifiable evidence.

Somehow that looks unlikely.

My scenario..

Someone of 'some local influence' tries to pick her up in the bar.

She refuses and leaves.

His mates laugh at him and he rounds up friends to go after her.

They find her on the beach and attack her.

David, looking for her, hears a girl in trouble and goes to help.

A couple hang on to her while others, probably at least 3 go after him and kill him, then return to Hannah.

That makes at least 4-5 involved. Not just 2.

The principle agitators hop a boat and get out if it.

The rest, Sorry, don't know anything. Maybe it was those Burmese guys on the beach.

There are people who know though aren't there.

Just a thought.

Many, many pages back I, as with others acknowledged there is no way the UK government can have direct involvement; influence yes.

I'm thinking a covert op along the lines of retaliation against the perpetrators of the Munich 1972 Massacre.

I'm well aware this is far fetched but......I've gotta be honest, I'm <deleted> seething on the inside which gives rise to my somewhat angered and venomous thoughts.

I'm still seeing the cup as half full regards this. There is always the chance the families of the victims will conduct private investigation and by God I'm sure there are plenty of people who are prepared to financially support them if they do so.[/size]

If this case goes sour, the UK government have a duty to intervene, if not directly, then covertly.....they've lost two young souls.

As another previously posted, it'll be a huge travesty and miscarriage of justice should a repeat of the Kirsty Jones case reoccur when the UK FCO have the potential to remedy an unacceptable, repugnant and unjust situation.

Thai style "up to you", I just hope will not cut it in this case.

Having Lieutenant Colonel Kewalee Chanpan, from the forensic division of the Royal Thai Police exercise a degree of professionalism (as reported) will hopefully add significant credibility to this sham trial we see thus far.

The Generals "Article 44 of the interim constitution imposed after last year's coup to solve problems quickly."

Get some <deleted> balls General and right this case or you won't have any friends in the west.

How does a gathering of 5 or less westerners petitioning the military to right this extreme incompetence? A few nights or months in Klong Prem I guess and no more than a "10,000 Baht fine". Bullshit. Extortion with batons behind closed doors, no CCTV and the pricks demanding 100,000B or more.

I genuinely hope the British set diplomacy aside and impact on this case even at arms length.

I'm well aware they cannot have direct input, but influence yes.

I was the same age as David twenty years ago when on Tao.

I hope western media give this case suitable exposure it warrants, as many will have their sons, daughters, sisters, and brothers visiting this place.

It's time for the world to know the truth of Thailand, it's unfortunate for it to be at the great cost of human life.

My thoughts are with the families who lost their son and daughter in the most brutal and unforgiving way.

These 8 fold steps are an essence of Buddhism.

Right Views, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood/Occupation, Right Endeavor, Right Mindfulness.

I'd say the General and RTP have failed in every one.

Blackfox, can I join in?

Police failed to check CCTV images of a boat leaving a pier close to where two British backpackers were found murdered, a Thai court has heard.

There were gasps in the courtroom as Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed a series of apparent blunders in the investigation into the deaths of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the island of Koh Tao.

"We have the footage, but we never checked it," Police Colonel Cherdpong said.

The alleged murder weapon - a wooden garden hoe - was never extensively forensically tested.

The court was told officers had inspected it with a magnifying glass but deemed there were no viable fingerprints on it, and no DNA evidence to collect.

Uneducated, unqualified, incompetent useless bums the RTP are. That includes the General also.

The Thai people have taken a deeply philosophical religion and made it entirely superficial. My days here will soon draw to a close.

This police incompetence/cover up (if proven to be) is the straw that's breaking the the camels back.

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us,"

Thanks BritTim. I wasn't aware.

My apologies for the misinformation.

On the Sean situation correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a msg maybe Facebook or somewhere from him recently saying he didn't know anything about the murder as he was sleeping. And yet I was on here that night when he stated they were after him and saw the comments and went to his Facebook page with the mssgs going backwards and forwards and he cetainly made some accusations and posted pictures would indicated he did know something. He does need to man up but he's not going to I don't think!

How many here that were threatened by the Thai mafia with death, wold willingly re-enter the country to give evidence against someone in their own back yard?

He is not stupid.

Is there a way to then have he and others appear before the court on video link supported with Thai translators?

I'm unsure if Thai court allows but in other countries yes.

It then saves the the little cry baby from wetting his pants at the thought or request of returning.

Not sure if this is what you mean from the lobby or the uni.

Hannah-Fresh-milk.jpg

Just ran a straight edge across the letters and numbers. There not in line and yet the door framing is. I would say this still,is doctored. You could tell if you could get the original and check the pixels for sure

For the eighth time, see the Thai PBS report:

Not 100%. Could still be doctored, but not an obvious fake.

Note at 02.35 into the video, there's questioning over the change in colour on the time display (seconds) from white (si khaw) to black (si da [dum]), and his true whereabouts. This is my understanding yet I don't have anyone near (Thai) to corroborate this.

As another said, perhaps we shouldn't be focusing on this little prick just now...all in due course.

It would be a testament to ones character if he and others come to KS in support of transparency and fairness.

Personally, I'd see it as a sense of duty.

JTJ like GB; you need to give it a rest.

You guys are shitting most of us to tears.

If I write anything else, I'll be banned.

If I remember correctly they were acquaintances when studying in Leeds.

As I previously posted, I think Sean is just a drop out high on hedonism, lacking moral fibre, and cried like a little girl when his personal security was compromised...if it really was.

The person states it is Nom Sot captured by the camera and says he or she thinks Nom Sod is running to get the key to the resort's private boat. The key is kept in the restaurant of the AC resort.

lots are thinking that it was nomsod who was captured by the cctv in koh tao... lots are thinking that it was not a "small" man

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/videos/vb.596740650403664/728749213869473/?type=3&theater

Yes definitely however, it'll take someone not only to finger him there but solid proof.

Unless the defence has a credible witness and preferably more in addition to tangible evidence, it will be difficult.

The incompetent and corrupt RTP make a shoddy adversary when trying to determine truth.

Yes, the person indicates it is Nomsod on the CCTV.

Anyone know where NS is studying in BKK?

I understand he's in Hospitality.

Aussie cars are that crap even the Thais don't want em.

They were mechanically sound also.

The use of "were" is because the Australian car industry is nearing an end.

Have to agree with asking people to put there money where their mouth is. Seems most are unwilling to do this but have no issue with screaming these two are innocent and they spend hours upon hours working on theories for other social media detectives to compare.

As and FYI, Andy is not somebody's whose words I would trust regarding this case, I believe he has his own agenda and plays lose with the facts.

These are attorneys assigned by their embassy and receive funds from the embassy to cover costs as well as receive donations and assume receive a salary seeing how they are embassy attorneys. If I recall the embassy was also footing the bill for family and witness travel and stay.

http://www.mizzima.com/affairs-news-domestic/myanmar-team-calls-more-money-koh-tao-murder-suspects

The more confusion and speculation surrounding the case the more the defense team, MWRN and Andy Hall in particular benefit from the situation. I excluded the two men on trial because I expect the judges to rule based on actual facts, not speculation.

At least one person, speaking on behalf of Andy Hall and the MWRN, here in TV has unequivocally asked to continue the "hard speculation" when asking for donations, evidently the more sensationalism and outrage the better for them.

An article on the Samui Times, I believe, referred in part to this:

"It is also important that those involved in the case act responsibly, and are guarded in what they say to the press and refrain from sensationalism. Using the press as a way of garnering publicity for other cases or raising one’s own profile could be highly damaging to what is already a very sensitive case. It is vital that words are not put into the mouth of the accused not in a position to speak for themselves. Pointing fingers at other members of the community not standing trial is also deeply irresponsible."

It's worth noting that the news from the previous hearings were largely dominated not by reports coming directly from the court, but the defense team own take on the proceedings. Unsurprisingly that led to a large degree of confusing and contradictory information and I fully expect the same thing to happen in the following days.

I was particularly appaled by a tweet from Mr. Hall where he clearly tried to imply the father of David Miller cried when the retesting of some of the evidence was ruled out:

"BBC News - Thailand backpacker murders: Victim's father weeps at photos as forensics evidence re-test ruled out"

That was a very creative way of editing the actual article to give the impression that the father wept at the news of the retesting of some of the evidence being ruled out, not just at the moment the photos were shown. I don't think such editing is accidentally, it's a clear attempt at spinning things to elicit an emotional response and exactly the type of sensationalism the Samui Times article refers to.

I do not advocate sensationalism however, if one needs to voice an opinion without detriment to the case nor family, then he (they) have my full support.

Take note that the investigation and evidence gathering by the RTP is flawed.

This is irrefutable. There are too many anomalies in this case thus far.

I'm just hoping my contribution will go someway to assist bringing foreign heavyweight professionals to appear on behalf of the defence.

I honestly doubt true justice will be executed however if reasonable doubt affects a possible foregone conclusion with the help of the media then I'm all for it.

A fair and transparent trial is what EVERYONE is wishing for.

Yet honestly, I do have one motive, and that's to shame the RTP and judicial system if a miscarriage of justice occurs.

Foreign eyes are on this and the case continues tomorrow.

As Thailandchilli indicated, the defence team including Andy Hall are working for free in this case (pro bono).

I've read near all posts in this thread and I haven't come across one that has made mention of a personal donation to help support this case.

I've just had communications with Andy Hall and made a donation.

As I understand he, as with the defence team, are engaging in this case with every effort and resource available.

The British FCO are wishing for a fair and transparent trial but are prevented from having direct input. Therefore, we have a chance to provide assistance.

Irrespective of your views in this case, it is possible to have a direct effect on fairness and transparency.

Impartiality is questionable as evidenced thus far. Financial support for the defence is required. Would it not be satisfying to know you may just help bring fairness to this case.

Give it some thought.

FSS, can't the lot of you stop with your innuendos, B grade rhetoric, unfounded perceptions, and whining about what the other said.

You're worse than a bunch of <deleted> girls.

Is it just possible to stick with substantiated reports rather than concocting elaborate BS and the like which pisses most of us off.

This is the one and only thread and it seems to be weighted with too much 'what ifs', deflection and antagonistic posts set to rile another.

Proceedings begin again on Wednesday as I understand.

Is it possible just to write specifics pertinent to the case.

Please?

Maybe if you asked politely instead of littering your post with unnecessary profanities.

In any case, I feel that my posts are pertinent, even if you think they are not. If you only want to have substantiated reports and only specifics pertinent to the case, then you should put on ignore all posters other than the mods who are only posting news reports.

Alternatively, you could have directed your posts at specific posters rather than tarring everyone with the same brush.

Yes, you are correct however I did ask politely last night.

For what it's worth, your posts are sound as with most others. It's the ones in the other camp that I'm pissed about.

There's just too much rubbish on here to discern what is plausible info and what has been contrived.

FSS, can't the lot of you stop with your innuendos, B grade rhetoric, unfounded perceptions, and whining about what the other said.

You're worse than a bunch of <deleted> girls.

Is it just possible to stick with substantiated reports rather than concocting elaborate BS and the like which pisses most of us off.

This is the one and only thread and it seems to be weighted with too much 'what ifs', deflection and antagonistic posts set to rile another.

Proceedings begin again on Wednesday as I understand.

Is it possible just to write specifics pertinent to the case.

Please?