Tingtau

Does anybody ever NOT "rush" somewhere. Do they ever just "went quickly", "hurried", "hastened", "went without delay".....especially if transporting a dead body to the morgue for an autopsy!! In that case, would anyone think the authorities remiss if they simply "had the body transported"? Certainly they are going to carry out their duties such a manner so as to be available for other duties as soon as possible, are they not? If anyone has cconcerns about the time taken by the officers, I suppose the reporter could say "the officers, hampered by the usual Phuket traffic and its seeming indifference to any and all emergeny vehicles, proceeded as quickly as possible to the scene!" There! Does that absolve them of any suggestion of a wasteful languor?"

Would the following cover everything, despite not once using the word "rushed"?

The police received information that the body of an, as yet, unidentified foreigner, possibly of Arab descent, had been sighted amidst some rocks on a beach near a well-known resort in the Tambon Rawai area of Chalong District.

Pol Lt Weerayut Thansirisukwarakul, an officer on duty of the Chalong police station, was alerted at 8:30 pm about the body. He notified Chalong Pol Col Noppadol Thiraprawa of the reported finding, and that officer, together with Inspector Pol Lt Col Jamroon Playduang and rescuers from the Ruamjai Phuket Foundation immediately went to the scene, where they found the body, lying on its back with no shirt on, shorts lowered to the knees and wearing red sports shoes.

His head was resting on a black cloth bag, inside which was found three t-shirts, two trousers and a wallet containing Bt325 in cash. No travel documents or other identification were found. There was also a trace of vomit. A liquor bottle and a drinking water bottle, both (?) of which were un-opened, were found near the body. Additional information indicates that there appeared to be a bite mark at his left knee.

Officials believe the man, whose body was transported to Phuket’s Vachira Hospital for an autopsy, had died at least six hours earlier. Investigators of the Chalong police station were dispatched to check the scene and take photos and make a map of the location.

Resorts and hotels nearby were asked to check whether any of their guests were unaccounted for.

Just asking.......??

I have to take the time to cast my vote for the "Most Sensible Comment". My vote goes to cancan70 who said:

"I think it is silly to assign blame at this time in the proceedings. We have no idea who's at fault and it could be that they were both in the wrong. The Brit for speeding and the Thai officer for making an ill-advised U-turn in front of an on coming car."

Exactly!!!

I hope they lock up and fine these tourist hooligan fools and put a notice in thier passports to keep them from returning next year and assaulting people

C'mon rainwater...where is your sense of fun and humour!! And what are you talking about "tourist hooligan fools"? What I saw in the Chalong/Rawai area were just as many Thai nationals and ex-pats if not more squirting at everyone, including themselves. Loosen up.....it's only one day here in Phuket!!

As stated by another poster, it certainly would be helpful if a definition of a "high-pressure water gun" were provided. Surely they are not talking about the ubiquitous water guns that we see being displayed, sold, and used throughout Chalong-Rawai roadways yesterday? Now, as to those guys who had a high pressure hose hooked up near the SuperCheap store just after the Big Buddha intersection......that was something that should have been stopped....they had just about enough pressure in that thing to knock a motorcyclist sideways!!!

Smuggling heroin.....8 kg!!! Sorry. I can argue against the death penalty for the commission of many human transgressions. But your participation in spreading the tentacles of this particularly evil drug....no sympathy whatsoever!! The World iwill be better for your absence/ While I don't wish you a painfuil departure, I do wish you the following: Goodbye, farewell and have a nice trip to the Unknown!!!

Som nam nah alert!!

Fair do's I say. Cop a feel of another blokes totty and then wonder why the bloke gets snotty?

Or, a wise monkey is the monkey that doesn't monkey with another monkey's monkey.

My girlfriend isn't a hooker!!! HAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

And, your point? What on earth does her relatiionship to the Finnish chap have to do with the incident? If she's a hooker, it was okay for someone to just walk up and grope her? C'mon!!!

Yes, what would you do if you had a medical emergency and wanted to be admitted to a private hospital? That 20,000 baht would really come in handy. Frankly, I can't believe that anyone would travel around Thailand without at least that amount available from an ATM card of a Thai bank,

I am sure that there are quite a few who have a million or more baht available from a Thai bank. That's isn't what is being discussed here. The question is.....Holder of a Non-Immigrant B visa with valid work permit...legally required to produce for inspection at point of entry the sum of 20,000฿ or not? The tourist, yes, of course! But the working stiff who holds a non-immigrant B visa plus a valid work permit had to establish that he/she was self-supporting in order to get those....you would think that the applicable section for requiring a person to show proof has already been satisfied!! See Section 11 & 12 of Chapter 2 Entering and Departing the Kingdom http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf Section 2 seems to be the section being relied upon and, while certainly applicable to the tourist...how can it reasonably be applied to the legally employed holder of a business visa? Oh.....reasonably....aye, there's the rub!!

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In over three years, I have made numerous re-entries on my Non-Immigrant B multiple entry visa with my valid work permit. For the first time, a long line of us returning from Penang, were each, individually, told that we must produce 20,000฿ (or whisper, whisper) slip 200฿ to the officer. I am well aware that tourists and those on Ed visas can be (and now usually if not always,are) required to do so. My understanding of the immigration law though was that a holder of a Non-B visa with valid work permit was not required to do so. Can you please advise and, if you would be so kind, provide the actual section of the immigration act that applies? 200฿ is not a lot, naturally and while we don't wish to make waves.....it is the principle of the thing! Those of us who have already gone through the hoops of full compliance with the work laws and thus acquired a business visa and work permit, feel that this is an unfair, if not illegal, treatment!

That happens normally in Sadao/Dannok. You can read countless postings about that. The requirement of showing Bt 20,000 is legal and published, so your choice being informed about to satisfying it, or pay up.

Check here !

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15405-General-information.html

Immigration officers are indeed legally able to satisfy themselves that those requesting entry have sufficient funds !

Thanks for the url.....it led me to finding the actual Government website - http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf in which the following info was provided:

Chapter 2 Entering and Department the Kingdom

Section 12 : Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom :

1. Having no genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of passport ; or having a genuine and valid passport or document used in

lieu of a passport without Visaing by the Royal Thai Embassies or Consulates in Foreign countries ; or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ,

excepting if a visa is not required for certain types of aliens in special instances.

Visaing and visa exemption will be under the learn and conditions as provided in the Ministerial Regulations.

2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.

3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by using physical without skills training or to work

in violation of the Ministerial Regulations.

4. Being mentally unstable or having any of the disease as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

5. Having not yet been vaccinated against smalllpox or inoculated or undergone any other medical treatment for protection against disease

and having refused to have such vaccinations administered by the Immigration Doctor.

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgement of the Thai Court ; or by a lawful injunction ; or by the judgement of the Court of foreign country,

except when the penalty is for petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a

nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or to the security of the nation , or

being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreigngovernments.

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in

prostitution , the trading of woman of children , drug smuggling , or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

9. Having no money or bond as prescribed by the Minister under him - Note: for clarification of this I had to go to the following url :

http://ayutthaya.immigration.go.th/General%20Information.html. There, Section 9 reads as follows: Having no money or bond as

prescribed by the Minister under Section 14 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)

10. Being a person prohibited by the Minister under Section 16.

11. Being deported by either the Government of Thailand that of or other foreign countries ; or the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign

countries having been revoked ; or having been sent out of the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of

Thailand unless the Minister shall consider exemption on an individual special case basis.

The examination and diagnosis of disease of a physical or mental nature , including protective operations as against disease , shall be

conducted by the Immigration Doctor

At first I thought that Section 2 was the solely applicable section and that, by the fact that one was the holder of a valid work permit, they would automatically be showing proof that they have the "appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom".

Then I read section 9, investigated the section and was led to Section 14 where it states - "The Minister shall have power to issue public notice in the Government Gazette requiring the alien entering into the Kingdom to have with either money or bond , or shall have power to order an exemption under any condition. The public notice issued by the Ministerunder the first paragraph of this section shall not apply to children under the age of twelve years "

I haven't yet searched for such public notice and therefore do not know whether we who possess a valid Non-Immigrant B visa AND a valid Work Permit are included or excluded in that group designated "alien.entering". Perhaps my query to "Ask a Lawyer" will meet with a definite answer. For now, I guess that I have three choices.......show 20,000฿ ; pay the 200฿ "tea money" fee; or use the airlines!

In over three years, I have made numerous re-entries on my Non-Immigrant B multiple entry visa with my valid work permit. For the first time, a long line of us returning from Penang, were each, individually, told that we must produce 20,000฿ (or whisper, whisper) slip 200฿ to the officer. I am well aware that tourists and those on Ed visas can be (and now usually if not always,are) required to do so. My understanding of the immigration law though was that a holder of a Non-B visa with valid work permit was not required to do so. Can you please advise and, if you would be so kind, provide the actual section of the immigration act that applies? 200฿ is not a lot, naturally and while we don't wish to make waves.....it is the principle of the thing! Those of us who have already gone through the hoops of full compliance with the work laws and thus acquired a business visa and work permit, feel that this is an unfair, if not illegal, treatment!

WOW!!! I'M SPEECHLESS!! In the US, blacks complain of there being an offence of "Drive while Black!!" I may have small doubta as to there being a problem with drug traffickers in certain areas of Thailand who are predominantly of a particular skin colour....but to target “colored people" suggests that the police (who themselves don't have all that pure a reputation in the minds of many) have been given explicit orders to arrest and detain persons for the "offence of breathing air while black" boggles the mind!! Here I am trying to argue that Thais are not a racist people (and I still don't believe that they truly are) and it is alleged that the police have been given, not only permission to be racist in their dealings with the public but orders to do so. If it was a provable fact that not only was it true that the ONLY criminals carrying out drug trafficking offences in those areas are "coloured people" but that people with "coloured skin" were the only inhabitants of the area, I could possibly have a slightly different outlook on things. By the way, the term "coloured"....what a STUPID adjective when applied to the skin of human beings!!!! Just because I am not BLACK doesn't mean that I am NON-COLOURED or WITHOUT COLOUR. I may be vanilla, coffee triple cream, or just coffee one cream...and then of course there are the "yellow" or "red" skinned people. My God, when are we going to stop with the bloody "COLOUREDS" , "WHITES", ''BLACKS, terminology! What juvenile minds are we still encouraging!! I am "coloured" for Gawd's sakes!!!! And I have children ranging in colour from coffee triple cream to coffee hold the cream!!! I'm not coloured black, yellow, red or brown (well, give me a fair turn of the spit, and you would be hard-pressed not to call me "brown"...at least in those areas generally permitted to be publicly exposed!!) So when will people grow up and stop with that stupid, ignorant and meaningless "COLOUREDS".reference which only exposes the user as an illiterate ignoramus!!!

Have the various "thrilled" posters not checked the date today. It's April Fools' Day, folks!! 90-day reporting at locations within Thailand may come about eventually (and I sure hope they do, for I do not enjoy the visa run at all!!), but you can rest assured that the 7-11 outlets will not be included!!!

The following is not intended as a "knock" against the O/P in any way, shape or form...I believe that his/her post poses a valid question. The following was penned by me in response to comments made on f/b and I post it here in the hopes that it may provide some help in answering the O/P's legitimate question.

"I have heard so many comments ("ad nauseum" for me at least) from non-Thais in which they describe Thais as “racist” and that Thailand treats all non-Thais as unwanted (“except for our money”) outsiders! In response, I felt driven to pen the following comment (I apolgize in advance for its length):
Perhaps these comments result from unfortunate experiences involving difficulties which arose out of a communication breakdown, a lack of understanding of a certain taboo in Thai“culture” or “custom”, or perhaps it was simply due to the perception that one’s self-annointed place on the Ladder of Hierarchal Importance” was not duly recognized to his or her satisfaction. Whatever the causes, I have my own feelings as to why we might feel “unwanted’ and these feelings arise from a couple of questions and observations.
My first question……”If we truly want to be accepted, would you not think it reasonable that learning the language to be an expectation”. And I don’t mean simply being able to say “Sawadee khrap/ka (Hello)” or “Khon bia eek duan (Another beer please) “. I mean being able to, at the very least, show a willingness and desire to become conversant. Think of your own home country and any foreigner wanting to be “assimilated” there and given the privileges which you enjoy! What would be one of the first hoop through which you would want that person to pass? If you said “have lots of money”….okay, partially true inasmuch as you would expect NOT to have to support that person, but otherwise (…..GONG…) Wrong!! If you said “to be able to speak our language”, understand our customs and history (DING, DING , DING) Right!! Why would anyone expect NOT to be required to be able to speak conversationally, to know our customs and at least know something of our history?

A second and third question…. “How much do I, the foreigner, know about the history of Thailand?” or its culture…and “Why should this be important?” Well, with respect to history…. if you are a country who has never suffered invasion by other countries, you probably feel relatively safe and secure in your identity. So secure that you are willing to accede to “outsiders” requests/demands for some changes to be made to your country’s laws/regulations in order to accommodate the “outsider”. And most will not complain or rise up, until the very fabric of what you believe to be your country’s identity, is being so badly torn as to threaten your perception of that identity. Then look at how you feel about your countries “benevolent attitude toward immigrants”!! Canadians, Americans, Britons, Australians….how do you feel about “outsiders’ currently? Still agree with throwing out the welcoming mat for any and all without restrictions?

Thailand, unlike the countries from whence the complainers most often come, has suffered invasion and attempts to subjugate its citizens on countless occasions over the centuries. Why then, should it not be reasonable for the Thai government of today, to be extremely protective of its sovereignty? Unfortunately, for those of us who have a genuine desire to give our loyalty to, and be accepted by, Thailand the country, this has resulted in all manner of roadblocks and seeming deliberate efforts to make us feel unwanted (“except for our money”).
As to culture....you may think that “culture” isn’t that big an issue in your own home country…unless you have experienced or are experiencing the “invasion” of a people whose culture is in seeming polar opposition and a threat to your own. Think of ‘common law”, “equal rights for all”, “freedom of speech, religion” …the list goes on and on…..then think of “shariah law”, “restricted female rights”, “lashes and prison terms for simply asking for freedom of speech”, “lashes, prison and death sentences for so-called apostasy”….the list goes on and on. Think of those issues and then tell me that knowledge of “culture” is not important!

I see Thailand, not as a racist country or unwelcoming country, but rather as a country whose historical roots and experiences has led to the current “circle the wagons” attitude toward the “foreigner”. Any change, if indeed change is to take place, will require time. Also needed is a clear demonstration of the “foreigners” willingness to learn the language, history, customs, and culture. Perhaps, both the most important and difficult thing we must accomplish, is to instill in the minds of the Thai people and its government, the confidence that we are not here to take advantage of this wonderful country or its people, but wish only to be assimilated into the country. Forming and living in enclaves comprised solely of one’s home countrymen; refusing to make the effort to learn the language and/or adapt to this country’s ways; failing to show a willingness to make sincere attempts to understand the Thai as a people; showing a disrespect for its King and/or government….and the list goes on and on……all of these things will deny any possibility for such change."

I subsequently received responses to this ‘blog’ which made a number of allegations, to which I responded as follows:

1. Service at 7/11 or gas station Thais served before falang
   I have used the services of gas stations, 7/11s, banks, etc and never have I had the attendant deliberately pass over me to serve a Thai. Having said that, I can attest to the fact that it would seem that “lining up”, “queuing” for anything unless it is a military exercise, is an unlearned behaviour for many. The consequence is that, if you are not pro-active and watchful, you WILL have some Thais blissfully disregard the fact that you were there first and walk to the head of the line. I have seen this done where the person whose position being usurped was another Thai.
   
   2. Traffic confrontations – changing of rules for non-Thai in order to charge money
   I, personally, have never experienced this type of treatment. I have heard many tell stories about it, so I cannot deny that it may take place. Probably true….to what extent, again, I don’t know. That SOME Thai police hold racist views toward the farang, I have no doubt. To be deplored but name me a country where this is not true! The best defence would be to learn the language. Amazing how fairly one can suddenly be treated if the intended victim is able to clearly communicate and expose the actions of the person in power as unjust! Added comment…the average Thai traffic cop, as I understand it, earns no more than 13,000฿ per month. In fact, while I have difficulty in accepting their figures as anywhere near current, according to a report on the Thailandguru website, regular police may only earn less than 6,000฿ per month, possibly as low as 4,500฿!!!
   See - http://www.thailandguru.com/thailand-tourist-police.html Can anyone wonder at the practice of “tea money”, which is still a practice in all avenues of government, existing in the policing?
   http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=3252
   Who would be the most natural person to obtain this “tea money”…..certainly not the
   Thai earning 300฿.
   While not condoning the practice, I understand why it exists and no longer see it in the
   same light as I would should it involve a copper in Canada who, just having joined last
   month is earning a salary of over $12,000 (312,000฿) monthly, even given the
   difference in cost of living!!
   
   3. Traffic confrontations – witnesses siding with Thai over non-Thai’s claim to be not at fault.
   Again, as in #2, I have never experienced this…but mind you, while having had a total of two accidents during my time in Thailand, neither ones which involved an investigation and/or interviewing of witnesses.
   I would like to think that given a situation where absolutely no doubt as to who was at fault was the case, that blatant lies would not be told. However, as can be demonstrated clinically, everyone sees things, not as a camera sees them, but rather through their brain processing what has been seen through a multi-faceted lens which, in addition to their eye, includes past experiences, biases, assumptions…a multitude of factors. All of this occurring in a split second and resulting in differing interpretations of what took place, as opposed to what the video camera would show. An interesting read on this can be found at http://agora.stanford.edu/.../Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm
   End result: Biased recollection or interpretation, but not, I would suggest, always or even most often, racism.
   
   4. Child born to mixed couple (Thai-Falang) not given Thai birth certificate
   I can attest from personal knowledge that this is absolute fiction! I have a Falang friend who is married to a Thai citizen and their child was issued a Thai birth certificate. To get the answer for a Thai-nonThai unmarried couple situation, I have put the question to Ask a Lawyer on the ThaiVisa forum but I really cannot see there being any difference insofar as issuance of a Thai birth certificate. Is it possible that this belief has somehow evolved from the fact that, unlike Canada (and possibly the same in USA, UK, Australia) where people, up until at least 2005 that I know of, would attempt to coincide their due delivery date with a visit to friends and/or family. By doing so, automatically the child; no matter what the citizenship of his/her parents, automatically had Canadian citizenship status and accompanying Canadian birth certificate. !! I suspect that this is not the case in Thailand!

5. Park and pier fees
I know this to be true and I can understand the knee-jerk reaction by those of us raised where prices for goods and services, by law must be equal for all persons. Exception: Employees who get a discount..sometimes as high as 50%. Is one example, but there are others. What’s the saying….All people are equal, just some people are more equal than others!” It should also be noted that a number of countries have already instituted a “sliding scale” when penalizing people for certain traffic infractions and arguments are being made for its inception in other countries.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../should_speeding_fines_be_based.html
http://www.refinery29.com/.../finland-speeding-ticket...
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/.../traffic-tickets-on.../
Not the same thing, you say? I beg to differ….the concept is the same…it’s the “who” being discriminated against that differs. Instead of “employee/general public”, “wealthy----poor”, here in Thailand it is the “perceived wealth” that is assigned to the falang. The average Thai will earn no more than 300฿ a day whereas the resident ex-pat , in order to satisfy immigration laws, must be able to show a monthly income of somewhere between 40,000 to 65,000฿…. or more than 4xs that of the average Thai. I know that this figure is very often (most often when it relates to, say, the average freelancing SCUBA instructor) much larger than actual fact, but as I said, it is the “perceived wealth” view that many, if not most. Thais have regarding a falang!
6. Farang racist in manner “they” use it
And finally this word “farang or falang” (I have heard and read the words of Thais who smilingly explain that “farang is the “falang” way of saying “falang”). I don’t see it as being a big deal!! Is it racist and/or derogatory to be called a farang/falang? Well, it simply means “foreignor” which is what we falangs are! I don’t get “shivers of delight” running up and down my spine when hearing myself being called that, but neither do I (anymore) get hot flashes in my cranial vault. I suppose that since it is respectful to refer to someone as Khun (add whatever proper name is held) that, as opposed to not calling me Khun Bruce, perhaps I would feel better if someone said Khun Falang in addressing me. But not a big deal! Perception is the key. If your state of mind perceives it to be derogatory, well, that’s how you will consider it! I don’t! I choose to think of it as being similar to someone saying “Hey Canuck, Yank, Ozzie…oh, you’re from New Zealand….okay, hey, Kiwi…..you seem like a rum chap, come over and join us for beer, why don’tcha!!” Life’s too short to piss about on the small stuff. Maybe the guy you’re hearing using the term IS being derogatory! So what!! Prove to him (and others) that he’s wrong…that you are just an “average Joe” not unlike himself, that you respect his right to have negative thoughts about you, but that they really aren’t deserved! Unless he is an out and out arse (in which case, what do you care what he thinks), he probably is going to have second and third thoughts. I seen and had it happen, not just here in Thailand, but elsewhere in the world.

Are there some ‘racist’ Thais? Are there some racists in any given country? 55, does the bear “poop” in the woods? Sure…sure… and sure! Is Thailand a racist country? Does Thailand “treat all non-Thais as unwanted”? Is it impossible for the suspicious attitudes of some Thais to be changed? No, no, and no…..not in my book!! Just as I choose always to see the glass “half full” rather than “half empty”, I choose to see the majority “ good” in this country rather than dwell on the minority “bad”!

As my luck would have it, I shaved this morning! I will send them my cv, too! No, seriously, I will send them my cv!

Just bought my new outfit for the job, sent my CV and will have an interview today.

Love it!! Now as long as you have nothing lower scale than an "tenor' voice, you could be a shoo-in!!

BANGKOK: -- All immigration checkpoints across the country were ordered to watch out for two wanted suspects in connection with the murder of a temple abbot in Udon Thani province on May 1 after the police feared they might flee the country.

Thankfully it's not happening for another 5 weeks.......well done DoI for the forward planning.....and great editing to boot.

May 1st!!! Since today is March 25th, I can't even begin to figure out how that date was given!! If it had said "April 1st", now that would make a little sense...."Khun Lek, it's just another one of those ealy April Fool's day jokes". Perhaps that is what was intended, but the writer needs to polish up on his/her English?!!

I think this is a hoot!! It reminds me of when I was a young copper in what was then a small town in Southern Ontario, and had to arrest an East Coaster for public drunkeness and fighting. When we got back to the station, before he was lodged for the night to sober up, he asked "Kin I call me missus?" "I guess so, what's the number?," I said. Gave me the number..which was in P.E.I.(an island on the east coast of Canada for any not familiar with it)....and insisted that it was most important..almost life or death!! I told him okay, but that it would have to be a collect call...and what was so urgent? "Well, me missus sent me out for some eggs.....Thursday afternoon I think it was.. (this is now Sunday, shortly after midnight)....I met some of me mates for a pint or two....and (with a drunken grin)..here I am!! She'll be wonderin what happened to me and the eggs!!" Not sure what the outcome was, because, while he insisted that "thas the right number', the other end wouldn't accept charges!! Always wondered how that turned out!

This is news because.....?

Because it is humorous.......we've all done stupid things in our lives...let's have a laugh at a couple of decent lads who "wandered off" for a bit!!!

Hope they will enjoy telling their grand-kids about this bit of a lark!!

The police didn't make any effort, they were summoned. The security guard also did his duty. The foreigner made a mistake, no other person did.

And...your point?

I don't often (can't recall ever before) give "tongue in cheek" responses, but this one seemed too inviting to pass up. So, while the answer I believe to be "the one who's there first...when you have the convergence from all directions as I normally experience, realistically the answer, at least for me is

"The biggest and baddest of the bunch!! That's who's first ahead of me!!

I ride a motorcycle (well, to those who ride Harley's etc, I'm just a wee motorscooter type on my 125 cc Honda Click) and believe me, I am not going to even think of arguing over right of way with one of those big buses, not even will I argue with those Visa Run guys in their vans, hell bent for election as they usually seem to be. Any question and I just kind of slide in beside one of the bigger guys and use them as buffer!!

Funny I almost posted on the original report that it's likely the gun was planted on him.

Once again the world gets the true meaning of Thainess; where life is cheap and where Thais feel so superior than any other race they can take a life without consequence and over the most trivial of matters.

Seriously you could offer me $10 million tax free to visit Thailand and I would turn it down without blinking an eye-lid. Why anyone would want to visit or live in the cesspit of humanity ( or lack of humanity ) is beyond my comprehension.

With that attitude, I hope that you would turn down any visit to Thailand, although I might suspect that greed would trump any other concerns!

** "Cesspit of humanity....Lack of humanity"!! Which is it? Lack or cesspit? You can't have it both ways! In either case, just where do you live? What credentials do you bring to the table in order to pass such judgement?

As far as having visited or lived in any really bad areas, I guess you haven't tried Seapoint or Salt River,, Capetown, South Africa, Caracas, Venezuela, Rio de Janiero, Brazil...or hey, what about Kinshasa, in Democratic Republic of the Congo? Try ANY of those places out and then come back and tell us that Thailand is the "cesspit of humanity"! In fact, compare walking about Jarvis and Queen, Toronto in the middle of the night with doing a walkabout in most parts of Thailand! Personally, I would far rather be walkiing about here in Thailand then any of those areas! Of course that's predicated on one behaving like a respectful decent person. You want to walk about in Bangkok, Chang Mai, Pattaya, or Phuket as a drunken, abusive falang at 2 in the morning (any time for that matter), telling various and sundry to "f%^k off" or give the middle finger to someone, you are sure going to have problems! But never mind Kinshasa, try that sort of behaviour in "little San Juan" in St.Thomas, USVI and see if you fare any better!!

** "Thais feel superior to any other race"? Where are you getting this stuff?? You basing that on a couple of low-lifes on Koh Samui doing what is common place in many of those places which I mentioned above?!!!

I have been and lived in many, many places in my lifetime! I have only been three years here in Thailand, but that time has been spent in various parts of country, both rural and urban.. My experience has been that the majority of Thai people, just as elsewhere in the world, will treat you with the same respect (or disrespect, perhaps in your case) as you treat them. Every country, every city has areas which are better avoided.

Suffinator........with all due respect, I think that you might benefit from reading the following advisory http://www.propertyshowrooms.com/thailand/guide/crime-and-police-in-thailand.asp Get on a computer also, and do a bit of googling. You just might get that mind of yours to open its currently locked prejudiced doors and give "Fair Judgement" entry!

The women is 33 and the man is 66. She is half his age of course there will be a troubled relationship. I don't know what the hell is wrong with people thinking this kind of a relationship can work.

Are you familiar with Thai women and relationships with men much older than they? I think not, for if you were, you would realize that many May-November relationships work out just grea so long as the man can provide for the wife!!! They just don't work out well when lack of fidelity is involved!!

Whilst the council should take responsibility and at least apologize to the parents, the mother should also shoulder a portion of blame for not ensuring her daughter was properly restrained in the car. A seatbelt could possibly have saved her life ?

BTW I did express my condolences to the family on the original thread, so don't bash me about it now...

How many of us really make our kids wear seat belts in the car? The problem is that unless you have the child on a booster seat at exactly the right height (which I'm not even sure you can buy here) the belt runs over the child's neck which would also be catastrophic in this kind of situation. Since this accident I've made my boy wear the belt under his arm but around his body, although I'm really not sure if this would secure him.

I'd heard that the parents were starting a private prosecution against the local authority, but haven't heard any more on that.

SDM

I'll go ahead and say that all responsible parents who care for their children make them wear seat belts. If a booster seat is needed, you get one – simple as that. Even if you haven't got a booster seat, my guess is that the pros far outweigh the cons.

If the mother didn't make sure this poor child had a seat belt on, she is equally responsible for her death as the people who allowed that hole to remain.

I assume you live in Thailand, have kids and always make them wear seat belts using a booster seat if appropriate. Only yes or no answer required, anything else and let's assume no.

Was it you, Myran, who said "if the mother...................she is equally responsible for her death...................that hole to remain"? Whoever said it.......equally!!!!?? Surely, you jest!! I might agree, should I be given privy to Molly's attending doctors' report in which they confirm a conclusion that her ultimate death could have been avoided through the use of a seatbelt, that a failure to ensure the wearing of a seatbelt was at fault, but to say "equally responsible"?? The road had a hole in it that any person with half a brain would know needed barrricades to be set up and maintained. That they were not and that, during a period of rainfall which resulted in such flooding that this hole was indiscernable, both a motorcycle and the pickup drove into this hole, was in no way the fault of Molly's mother! If the timing of the accidents had been such that her pickup landed on top of the motorcyclist, would you then attibute equal responsibility for any injuries sustained by the motorcyclist How can you possibly make such a.....with all due respect....assinine comment! You are undoubtedly caught up with the allegation, which may or may not be a factual (I have not seen the proof either way re absence or use of seatbelts...just people giving what is for me at this time, second or third hand accounts). as to the lack of seat belts being a factor in Molly's death! Even given that it IS a fact that Molly was not wearing a seat belt and further given that her wearing such seat belt would have prevented her death.............to say that the mother is "equally responsible"!! Your generous spirit knows no bounds....you apparently cannot even conceive that, without the failure on the part of those responsible for maintaining the safety of the roads in their jurisdiction, this accident would NEVER have occurred. By what convoluted path of logic do you take in order to arrive at the conclusion "the mother is equally responsible"? Your comment simply boggles the mind...at least my mind!!

SDM0712 I have no problem with your response to CornishCarlos and only include you in my comment because I'm curious as to whether I missed a piece of news in which it was stated that Molly was not wearing a seatbelt.

Well, you need training in forum search. Huge discussion on that, 100 odd days ago.

I can well accept that I "need training in forum search". Would you give me even one helpful hint as to what query would elicit this "huge discussion"?

However, as I think my comments reflect, whether or not a seatbelt was a factor in the death of Molly, I was and still am of the opinion that any comments that ask for the mother to "shoulder a portion of the blame" in this venue and at this time, to be cruel, uncalled for and totally unnecessary! Let's save such self-righteous (my description) comment for forums such as "the need to wear seatbelts" or 'pro's and con's of wearing seatbelts", not in comments addressing the reported death of someone's daughter. I would gladly give evidence ( of my own experiences as well as those of others with whom I am familiar) as to the advisability for all persons in a motor vehicle to "Buckle Up" in any discussions relating to the issue. I just don't feel that this was the proper venue to make such comment which, while perhaps unlikely, might be read by Molly's parents, who are undoubtedly going through pain and suffering enough without members of the public offering condemnatory comment?

Tingtau, there was reference in one or two of the original stories to the fact that Molly was not wearing a seatbelt. There was also quite a debate about it on here. So I am not assuming and its not all in my fertile mind !

As for comments about "who really makes their kids wear seatbelts", every educated caring parent that I know does.

Lets be honest here, it's a Thai trait to deny accountability, just sad when that even includes the parents.

I must have missed it then....if you can point out one or two of them, I would much appreciate seeing the reports. SDM0712, who by the way, is the one that actually made the comment about "who really makes their kids wear seatbelts", stated in a recent reply to me "My boy was in Molly's class at School and I understand that Molly was asleep in the front seat and not wearing a seat belt." Again, no reliable evidence for me to make that judgement. Personally, I believe whole-heartedly in wearing seatbelts in motor vehicles and helmets while operating motorbikes or bicycles....tragically in many cases, this has not yet fully caught on in many Asian countries including Thailand. Up until 1973, seatbelts in cars manufactured in North America were not even included!

Having said all of the above, I still find it both cruel and uncalled for to make the remark in this forum at this time! I suspect...in fact there is no doubt in my mind but...that both parents are going through hell, especially the mother who was operating the vehicle at the time of the accident. She will undoubtedly, if a lack of wearing a seatbelt played a role in Molly's demise, be "shouldering a portion of the blame"....in fact, I know with certainty from experience as a former policeman, that she is now, and will be reliving the moments of that tragic accident, the hours leading from then until the decision to remove the artificial life support systems, and the countless hours and days that will continue now that Molly is deceased, "shouldering a portion of the blame"!!! It will take strong bonds of love between she and her husband as well as counselling for them to fully recover from such a tragedy. There are many short and long-term effects of the loss of a child, even where there is no clear reason(s) for self blame.. One could benefit from reading such reports as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841012/ in understanding that there is, with the normal parent, no need for public condemnation....the parent will do a thorough job by themself.

Finally, the last comment " "it's a Thai trait to deny...........................includes the parents". Even accepting any truth in your comment as to it being a "Thai trait to deny accountability...", which I do not!! [in fact, I find that comment to be racist, uncalled for, and ludicrous in face of the fact that while the mother, Phakkamon Duangchaytemcharat may well be Thai, the father, I suspect, is a farang.....at least I don't know of any Thai nationals with the name Gordon “Badger” Bailey], where is the evidence of such denial here? The fact that they are seeking an apology from the very ones who are at the root cause for the accident through the failure to maintain a barricade around such an obvious hazard!!? The fact that they are upset that 100 days from the date of the accident, they have yet to receive any words of apology? Good Lord!!!! If that constitutes a "denial of accountability", I can almost guarantee you that everyone, faced with even a lesser travail than these poor souls are experiencing, no matter what their country of origin, would be reacting in a similar manner. I am not the grieving parent here but I feel justified in demanding that an apology.....a personal face to face apology..be made!! That is the LEAST Molly's parents deserve. And not, at this time at least, to have the public telling them that "the mother must shoulder also a portion of the blame"!!!

Srisoontorn Municipality failed in their responsibility to properly maintain the roadways under their jurisdiction. That they could not afford to make the necessary repairs, I can accept as being a mitigating reason for the "hole" not being fixed, but I cannot accept their failure to maintain the necessary barricades required to prevent just such an accident. As to the failure on the part of the Mayor of Srisoontorn Municipality, Worawut Songyod, to meet with the parents at this time (stating to reporters "“Once I have held a meeting I will talk with the family.”) I will only comment that this gives the appearance that either a) he really doesn't give a damn he is too ashamed of his underlings failure and does not have the internal fortitude required to make face-to face apologies or c) that his legal advisors, knowing the culpability faced by the Municipality, have him on a short leash until they know best how to spin things in the best light possible. Of those three, I would lean most strongly toward the third possibility. If so, he was poorly advised in my opinion. I think that he would have been better advised to have met privately in person, with the parents and at least given them his "sincere condolences"!!

RIP dear little Molly. My sincere condolences to Mom and Dad!! Having lost a daughter myself due to a tragic accident (not a car accident though), I do have a glimmer of what you both must be going through at this terrible time. I do hope that you will seek counselling to assist you through your time of grief !!

SDM0712 I have no problem with your response to CornishCarlos and only include you in my comment because I'm curious as to whether I missed a piece of news in which it was stated that Molly was not wearing a seatbelt. After reading CCs comment, I went back and read every article regarding this tragic accident....and nowhere could I find any reference to their use or absence of use. Without any report regarding their use or non-use, assumptions are being made that, in my humble opinion, have no place in any responses to this article regarding Molly's death. This latest article is simply reporting that Molly has died as a result of brain injuries resulting from that accident. An accident which was the direct and SOLE result of the authorities in that area not only NOT carrying out the necessary repairs but NOT ensuring that proper barricades to prevent such an accident from happening were maintained. I hope her parents do sue....not for the money, but as another commenter (Junk1e) said, " to send a message to the authorities". Nothing like a hefty kick in the wallet to help someone to remember to do or not do something!

To CornishCarlos, I respectfully have to say that I found your comment regarding "....the mother should also shoulder a portion of the blame....." cruel and extremely unwarranted at this time! Not only do we not know whether or not she was wearing a seatbelt, but we don't know that the use or non-use played any part in her death. You, sir, are making assumptions, assumptions which appear to have basis only in your fertile mind. Should it have been a reported fact that Molly was not properly restrained, I would agree with you if you were to have said something along the lines of "....in addition to suffering from the tragic death of her daughter, her mother must now live with the knowledge that her failure to have the daughter properly restrained may have contributed to her death" And, it would be fair comment to say that, in some countries, a highway traffic charge at the very least would result. But for you to make the currently unsubstantiated criticism which you have made in your comment, for me was totally uncalled for.