Tingtau

Not sure if the following was a quote by NCPO chief, General Prayuth or a paraphrasing of his words by the "News Team" :

"Among the laws that require alterations are those concerning corruption, human rights, human trafficking, wildlife trade and smuggling, intellectual property rights and trade and investment cooperation."

Whichever the case may be, I wonder if any such amendments could include a ban against the "placing into captivity or the use of cetaceans (dolphins and orcas specifically) in so-called "dolphinariums"? Surely, one would think that current laws to protect animals could be amended such that "cruel and inhumane treatment of our orcas and dolphins" (all animals for that matter) would be prohibited? The question as to what constitutes such "cruel and inhumane treatment" could be discussed and a workable definition arrived at without great difficulty, I would think. Would it be difficult to conclude that any such captivity, unless carried out for the sole purposes of providing critical care to a wounded or sick cetacean, is cruel and inhumane? Surely, not to a well-informed person or group?!! Just a thought! I wonder, does the NCPO monitor these forums? General Prayuth....if your guys are monitoring this forum, can you give this some thought? Please? Sure would be a bright feather in the NCPO's cap!

Can you just imagine this headline on the front pages of the world's news media and "as reported by CNN, Fox News, etc........

"Thailand's Junta, led by General Prayuth, Frees their Dolphins and Orcas!!"

or

"Thailand's Junta Show Their True Heart"

Dolphins and Orcas no Longer Prisoners in Thailand

and in the body of the news report

Breaking news....due to amendments made by members of Thailand's Junta, led by the far-sighted Generaly Prayuth, which have effectively banned the use of dolphins or orcas in "dolphinariums", , the "Nemo Dolphinarium" commonly referred to in world news as the "Phuket Dolphin Prison" will not open their doors in mid October as a "dolphinarium". Rather they have chosen to name their site as the "Chalong Hydrotherapy Centre for Rehabilitation"

One of their leading employees, Vladimir Vladimirovich Udovichenko has obtained preliminary contracts for such use with the various hospitals in Phuket. This was their original stated goal, so I am sure that they welcome this new and tested approach to rehabilitation. They are currently consulting with EWAC Medical and the several interested hospitals as to what devices would best suit the needs of the projected patients of this facility! Vladimir and his associates are to be commended for their innovative approach to what must have seemed to be an unsolvable dilemma to the amended laws re our dolphins and orcas. We, the news media, are happy to pass along the sincere good wishes which are being made by the public and the various parties who were formerly in strong opposition to the original facility. They said " All Success with your genuine Hydrotherapy Rehabilitation centre!!"

Real men pull their own teeth.

Dammnnnn!! Curiousity got the better of me...opened up the video and.....lasted all of 4 seconds before frantically trying to shut the darn thing off!!! Neeeoooo, thaaaannnnk yooooouuuuu! Now I have to go and watch, oncw more, Ed Hung performing his version of Ricky Martin's "She Bangs" to get the visual out of my head!! And you, Bulldozer Dawn, have to do the same in order that you may expiate your grievous sin of posting that clip!!!

I can understand the name of the place being deleted.....after all, it is only the word of a patient who had to go through such a horrible experience! But, who knows...perhaps NomadJoe is trying to smear the name of this "deleted" place out of some ulterior motive! (I KNOW that you are not, NomadJoe,..but I have to put this comment in the context of a 3rd party who doesn't know you and therefore can't know for a fact as I do, that there is no axe being ground here). So, referring to Thailand's laws concerning libel/defamation, my understanding is that only if such an accusation is false, would there be any avenue for conviction and or civil penalty. However, the onus is strictly and solely upon the disseminating party (i.e. in this case, NomadJoe) and anyone who assists in carrying out that dissemination (in this case, that would be ThaiVisa Forum) to prove that the stipulated facts were true AND made without any malicious intent. I suppose, therefore, that it is only natural that the Thaivisa Forum editing staff felt it necessary that they remove themselves from any risk of being named as co-defendants in any criminal or civil charges that might result! And therein lies the damn shame of iit! Now, as a person in need of some dental work and seeking a dentist, it is only reasonable for me to conclude that I must strike ANY and ALL dentists in the Chalong area off my list of possible dental offices to use for my dental needs. And THAT hardly seems fair to the other dentists in Chalong! I am presuming that there must be others since the poster's "in Chalong" portion was left in.!! Otherwise, naming or not naming the place would have made no difference!

OH! OH! Do I detect an "OOOPS!" here! Did ThaiVisa leave themselves open to charges here from the other unnamed and thus uncleared dentist facilities in Chalong? Hmmmm! Well, we'll hope not!! As I said, though....after reading this account...I personally would not avail myself of the services of ANY dentist in Chalong without personal and favourable knowledge regarding him or her!! Sort of a Catch-22, news media/public forums are placed in, isn't it? Good Luck, NJ....hope all ends up well with your tooth!!

HEY!!! Just had a thought! I wonder if ThaiVisa Forum would allow a comment which recommended a number of dentist facilities in Chalong, but said list somehow being absent one particular facility's name? Naahh! Probably not...might be worth a try! So far, the only recommendations are for me to go to, let's see...Bangkok, Chiang Mai.....Vietnam...or, as one wag stated "Real men pull their own teeth" with a video clip of (I will only imagine, cause I'm to chicken to watch it) somebody doing just that!!

This seems counter productive since there is a strong need for this type of service and the people that can do it are very rare in Thailand. Falong could be able to help Thais in many occupations but the work permits are so difficult to get. I do not imagine that any Thai will step in to fill the void created by putting a Chiropractor out of business.

What is a FALONG ????

Did the guy even check if he could get a work permit, i dont think so. He had a student visa, so obviously he hasnt the funds, so lets open a clinic, sod the laws, bye bye

i'm sure he meant "falang" (I believe that is the word used by Thais to refer to a 'farang' when talking to another Thai, using 'farang' only when talking to a 'falang'. :-) I agree with your comment..........and that he, being short the necessry funds to go the legal route, chose to roll the dice on the other side and lost!I Checking on the web, it appears that, had he gone the legal route AND was a skilled chiropractor (some question as to that in the article) it looks as though he would have been able to make a success of it!

I know one guy through my kids' school who has been here 10 years or so and didn't even know how to wai the school head. He is English.

Great post! But, you know....although she said "index fingers touch nose" with equals, it sure looked like the tips of the fingers were somewhere between the middle of her nose and her eyebrows. Have to have the g/f give me some re-training here!

Hi Crypte, I just asked my wife and she said to see her and Wai and say how sorry you are but you had to do something that could not wait, that is all.

Exactly!!

Just say 'sorry I didn't make the appointment'.

You're not Thai so don't bother acting like one.

No, he's not a Thai...but just as I would appreciate any foreigner's efforts to learn and attempt to follow my country's customs, so do I think any Thai would likewise appreciate the effort. You do take your shoes off before entering a Thai household, don't you? If I follow your reasoning, and I am correct in assuming that you're not a Thai, why bother!! It would take a small person to ridicule such genuine effort to respect the customs of the people in whose country you are a guest.

On the other hand, I don't think he need bother with any gift....giving a sincere 'wai' (stand to be corrected, but fingers just slightly above the nose, would be sufficient, I think) with a few repeated "sorry"s would be accepted by most people on a first such transgression.

By the way....I love the name....UKRULES....in the UK, that very well might and should be the case...i..e. one lives by UK rules. But here, in Thailand THAIRULES....one should live by Thai rules, don't you think?

Thai rules...what a laugh. They are perhaps the biggest rule breakers i have ever known !

Are they now!! I am so impressed with your respect for your Thai hosts, NOT! With all due respect, I fear that it is attitudes such as yours that cause a lot of the problems between the Thai native and any like-minded falang! Yes, Thailand has their touts, the "bottom feeders" but surely you jest when you attempt to pass the Thai people as a whole as "perhaps the biggest rule...........ever known!" If not, then I'm afraid that you are either, moving in an entirely different circle than I or you led a very sheltered life prior to coming to Thailand!

Crypt36...not sure if you got a detailed answer from anyone. I'm not Thai..been here only a short time (a little over 3 years), don't pretend to fully understand all the customs either, and, unfortunately have yet to develop anything more than a, perhaps slightly more than, rudimentary ability to converse in Thai. That isn't for any lack of desire though!! I do have a fully satisfactory relationship with a very nice Thai lady who has given me, I hope, some good advice re manners. I commend you on your wish to "do the right thing" and for having the good manners to realize that your failure to make an appointment is a slight, but one easily corrected so long as it isn't repeated. Personally, I wouldn't bother with a gift, although that is up to you, especially if the Thai lady is someone that you might be thinking of asking out to dinner or some such at a later time. My opinion? I would think that a simple wai....as shown in the picture someone provided, fingers just above the nose, possibly just below or at eye level as you nod the head respectfully , eyes downcast..........and a couple of "sorry"s, should be just fine! Good luck!

Just say 'sorry I didn't make the appointment'.

You're not Thai so don't bother acting like one.

Don't listen to this crap. Learn the language, culture, waiing, etc and integrate.

Thais are not big on making amends. It has to do with many believing that once bad karma has been made, there is nothing they can do to change it.

Ukrules - would you expect all the immigrants in the UK to learn the language and learn how we do things?

But there is a difference. Virtually all the immigrants in the UK for there for the freebies. Social security , housing , education , child care , health care and the list goes on .... It would be fair to expect these scrounging pond life to learn English. I don't see any of those benefits being available for farangs in Thailand. Strange how every single Thai laughs out loud when i ask their opinion about the farangs who act like Thais. The OP should just forget it and not make himself look a prat. The art of chivalry doesn't work very well here.

Just say 'sorry I didn't make the appointment'.

You're not Thai so don't bother acting like one.

No, he's not a Thai...but just as I would appreciate any foreigner's efforts to learn and attempt to follow my country's customs, so do I think any Thai would likewise appreciate the effort. You do take your shoes off before entering a Thai household, don't you? If I follow your reasoning, and I am correct in assuming that you're not a Thai, why bother!! It would take a small person to ridicule such genuine effort to respect the customs of the people in whose country you are a guest.

On the other hand, I don't think he need bother with any gift....giving a sincere 'wai' (stand to be corrected, but fingers just slightly above the nose, would be sufficient, I think) with a few repeated "sorry"s would be accepted by most people on a first such transgression.

By the way....I love the name....UKRULES....in the UK, that very well might and should be the case...i..e. one lives by UK rules. But here, in Thailand THAIRULES....one should live by Thai rules, don't you think?

If some guy was hitting on me I would tell him to bugger off also.

Swearing at them? Why do it?? You are just asking for trouble, especially here in Thailand where loss of face is taken so seriously! Just, simply, with a smile on your face, and a pleasant shake of the head, say "Mai ao,khrap...mai ao!" Never had one yet be persistent or get offended. Some people, I think...not saying you, Kooweerup..some people take an approach by a ladyboy as, somehow, being a threat to their masculinity!

then again there are the retirement /nursing homes back home where you have all the security of a canary in a cage or a 5 year old,this is how they treat you-i kid you not-(i had the experience once) for a mere let's say 100 000 to 200 000 bt a month.i figure the wife or myself can hire plenty of staff for that kind of dough  and i have a dignified self determined life on the way out.and if i can't make it to immigration then i will just not go there.

100,000 to 200,000 baht a month!!!!  Just how long do you expect to live......that's 1,200,000 - 2,400,000 baht a year!!!!  Are you a millionaire/billionaire.....or did you just mistakenly add a zero to your figures without realizing it?  Or maybe you were just seeing whose leg you could pull?

I seriously doubt that it will be construed as attempted murder. That would require a conscious decision to try to kill. That shots were fired to stop the car, that the car was the wrong car, etc, are all criminally negligent or contravening police and criminal codes, real dumb, but not attempted murder.

 

Rich law student, VP of Lawyer's Council.......I bet Dad is a friend of VP. Make an outrageous claim, and settle for less, which would be more than if it had been an unconnected engineering student.

 

I would agree re any "attempted murder" charge were we in, say the UK, US or Canada.  There, it is spelled out clearly that an INTENT to kill must be proven, that "merely committing an action that a reasonable person might expect death to result" is not sufficient for a conviction for murder or attempt murder to result.  Here in Thailand, though, I am not certain.  While unable to find any reference to a specific requirement for "attempt murder",  I did find that one can be convicted of "murder" even though the death was unintended ... See Section 290 and 291 of theThailand Criminal Code as amended 2003:  http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-penal-code.html#287. Does it follow, then, that an "attempt murder" could be argued in the circumstances of this case.  Well, of course, while it might be speculated as so, we weren't there.  All we know at this point is that the tires of what turned out to be the wrong car were shot out!!  What is quite possible though, from reading the followng taken verbatim from the Thailand Criminal Code (bold print and underlining added by this poster) is that one can be convicted of injury (to body or mind) with no stated requirement that "intent" to do so be provent:

OFFENCE AGAINST BODY

Section 295 Whoever, causes injury to the other person in body or mind is said to commit bodily harm, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or fined not exceeding four thousand Baht, or both.    

(Notice also that there is no measurement given as to what degree of injury is required)

 

Does the above mean that if any/all of the occupants can successfully show that this incident has caused them mental anguish, then a conviction for an Offence against Body under this section can be registered?  Dunno!!  I suspectl that many people will "jump the gun" and make all kinds of judgement calls...without knowing all of the facts.  I wasn't there so haven't a clue whether or not the police actions were justified.  What I do know is that if I were the police officers involved, I would surely be wishing that this had been the right car!!  And I would certainly know that I have some 'splainin' to do.  .A lot of explaining if any/all of the occupants are, shall we say, well connected in Thai society!  I wonder if we will hear any more about this.  I won't hold my breath.

 

"Never thought of this....call me Tingtong instead of Tingtau!"

 

I saw this 'tingtau' word.  What does it mean in comparison to tingtong?  

 

My autocorrection favors tingtong but redlines tingtau.  It wants to correct it to 

Tsingtao.  Going to that lists only a Chinese brewery.  

 

So, is this a made-up word that you coined? 

 

My curious mind would like to know.  

 

555.....Just a nickname, GoNavy..  Did the autocorrection define "tingtong"?  If not, it's a Thai expression (couldn't find in dictionary though, so must be local) for "silly" or "foolish".  My girl friend's nn is Ting and my favourite animals encountered in the ocean are turtles, dolphins and whales....so it was a choice between the Thai words, tau, pla-lo-maa, or pla-waan...naturally tau won!   So if I do a "duuhh!!" thing...just call me "tingtong" instead of "Tingtau". :-)
 

"BANGKOK: -- The forward command of the Internal Security Operations Command is to ask motorcyclists and pillion riders in the restive three southernmost provinces not to wear crash helmets as part of a preventive security measure, said Colonel Banpote Poonpien, spokesman of the ISOC, on Friday."

 

Now if he were to have said "...not to wear crash helmets that effectively act to disguise the wearer as part....." I would have no problem in agreeing with such a ban.  Wearers of full face helmets with tinted face protectors are cloaked in anonymity.  Then again, so are the wearers of the burka and to a slightly lesser extent, the niqab.  I am in total agreement that the police and military, especially with the unrest that currently exists in the deep south, MUST be able to identify persons moving about, especially in those provinces.  Actually should be able to anywhere.....so ban the use of crash helmets that act as a disguise, intentional or unintentional, but also ban, at the very least,  the use of a burka while operating any motor vehicle.  I know of several cases in the past in my native country where males have used the burka to disguise themselves and thus were able to move about freely despite being wanted by the authorities.  Just how many Muslim women would be affected by such a ban?  I have never seen a vehicle or motorcycle being operated by anyone wearing a burka....nor a niqab for that matter, in the more northern areas of Thailand.  Is it different in the southern provinces...i.e. the deep South?  I have been through those areas briefly and can't recall ever seeing such garb on any motorcylist.

Never thought of this....call me Tingtong instead of Tingtau!   I was calling upon the news media....meaning journalist and the like..to cry out for an investigation into blatant issues arising from the murder of Mr. Nunkaew shortly after his arrest and subsequent detention at the Trang Remand Prison.   Couldn't for the life of me understand why there had been no hue and cry from the media.  Well, MK1 in another thread gave the answer.  He replied to a poster:

 

"Investigative journalism is virtually non-existent or discouraged in Thai because of the liable/defamation laws. Journo’s have to rely on what is fed to them by Police at first until their investigation is complete."

 

All that is required, therefore, is for the investigation in this case to remain open.  And even if the police do advise that the investigation is closed, what journalist is going to risk being charged with libel/defamation by posing questions should he/she feel that the results are questionable. Scary!!

 

Guilty or Innocent of the charge against him??  At this point in time, I can only say that I truly hope that he was guilty!  Why?   Well, because my thoughts now turn to the mental well-being of his seven year old step-daughter.  She is a true victim in either case.  Better she be his victim, sad to say.  The alternative, for her, is too horrific to contemplate in this writer's mind!   Unfortunately, because of what occurred in Trang Remand Prison on or about July 10-11th 2014,  we, the public will never know.  Only she and her mother do!

 

I'm still interested in what will or has resulted from the investigation into his murder.  There was/is an investigation....????....wasn't/isn't there??!!  Hello.....hello!

(Scene opens on 'You Name It Beach', somewhere in Phuket with a few Thai oficers approaching a group of swimmers who are just returning from the ocean.  Head Officer calls out:

"ALL FALANG SWIMMERS, produce your passports"... "NO, NO, law say you must have with you at ALL times! NO GOOD FOR YOU TO HAVE IN CAR/MOTORBIKE....NOT EVEN IN POUCH AT BEACH CHAIR.....MUST HAVE WITH YOU ALL TIME..YOU PAY ฿2000 FINE!!. NOW!!  WHAT?...OKAY!  THAT OKAY....LAW NOT SAY THAT YOU CAN'T GO TO CAR FOR MONEY PAY FINE,,,WE COME WITH YOU...YOU PAY.....NO, NO, MUST PAY... HAVE PASSPORT NOW NO GOOD!!....NOT HAVE WHEN STOP ON BEACH!!

(Scene fades gradually to black with Thai officers happily approaching another group of falangs, while first group can be seen muttering..... well, muttering things best left unsaid here in  public media.)

The above scenario is totally tongue in cheek and is not meant to ridicule anyone, least of all our fine Royal Thai Police.....,BUT it is based upon Pol.Col. Thanasak's statement, to wit " ....By law, all tourists and expats nationwide are required to carry their original passports with them at all times. There is no exception to this....." 

 

I don't imagine (555?  No, really I don't) that the above scenario would ever happen.  But, without knowing what the Natiional Identification Act (if that's the bible that applies) actually says in this regard...if Pol.Col. Thanasak is correct in his interpretation,  then my fictitiional Thai officers would ave been acting lawfully!!  Fer Gawd's sake, someone....say it ain't so!! 

Yes, in 2006. A few days before the theft I had been somewhere (probably immigration) and put my passport & wallet temporarily in the seat-well of my motorcycle. Being me, I forgot they were there! A few days later, I went to the beach and saw my passport & wallet still there under the seat. I of course reprimanded myself and intended to remove them when I got back to my loom.
Someone else however relieved me of the plan to remove my things and lock them away; namely a thief!
As you can appreciate, I was in a right old pickle. Bank cards & passport gone. To compound the problem, try getting replacement cards sent from England???
Finally, armed with my birth certificate, police report and a copy of the stolen passport, I made my way to the embassy in Bangkok. In those days you could get a replacement passport from the embassy.
Five days later I went to collect my new passport. As you no doubt appreciate, it was a virgin passport devoid of any visas. The British embassy kindly gave me a letter addressed to Thai immigration in which they requested that they re-instate my visas.
Thai immigration were extremely polite. The smiling question was, let me check when you last entered Thailand. Don't forget, my virgin passport referred back to the stolen number.
Immigration gave me 15 days!! The reason being that your previous passport is in the hands of someone else and so we can't see it! Of course I suggested (in vain) that immigration in Chonburi must have my records? They didn't want to help and at this juncture I had made the mistake of going to the Bangkok immigration after picking up my new passport - instead of Chonburi. Whether they would have reacted differently; who knows?
So, 15 days. Well, back in those days you could do a border run so off I went to Cambodia and got myself 30 days grace.
Next thing meant that I needed a non-immigrant O-type visa which meant going to Penang armed with letters of recommendation from Thai people who knew me well. This exercise was successful and so I could now jump through the hoops by getting a letter confirming my income thereby obtaining the retirement visa stamp and finally getting multiple 're-entry exeats.
Today, I believe it would be more of an ordeal because the process of getting a replacement passport is much more rigorous. Going to "Trendy House" with one's application and having a minimum wait of 6 weeks for the new passport. Under today's rules of back-to-back visa runs, I don't know what you could do with only 15 days whilst waiting for 6 weeks??
Here endeth my saga

 

So bottom line is.....carry valid copies of your passport, (including visa and most recent entry date), work permit plus the original of your Thai driver's licence, BUT NOT YOUR ORIGINAL PASSPORT.  Keep that safely stored at home or safety deposit box, exept of course when travelling abroad or other such activity where a valid passport will have to be produced.  And just hope that a 'beach patrol' or 'jungle safari patrol isn't started up by some enterprising (read corrupt) Thai officer(s) after the military coup period is ended. 
 

 

 

yes it is the right of my own making.....as I am the law in my company.....

There can be ugly accidents, if working on fast moving machines if you drink all the night and than smoke Ya Ba to be awake for work. I am not risking that a young fool loose a finger because he took drugs and I think it is not political correct to suspect or check on it.
 

 

 

 

This is an example of a compelling reason for drug and alcohol testing - though you could not argue the same tests should be applied to people not at risk of injury from machines (your receptionist for example).

 

But you are wrong about one thing.

 

You are not the law in your company - Get over yourself on that one.

 

There is only one law and your company operate under the law. 

 

 

If the law says no testing then you break the law if you test. 

 

 

A prize example of how a topic goes "off-topic".  Blood testing for illicit drug and/or alcohol usage is NOT the topic.  Read carefully: 

Job applicants should not be forced to do blood tests for HIV: Rights body                                            "for HIV"!.....read again...."....for HIV"!

                           

 

 

I would want my potential employees having a test before I'd let them work for me

 

Not meaning to be rude, but does part of your potential employees' job description include sexual acts with your customers or yourself. If not, fear not!  There must be a sharing of bodily fluids in some way, shape or form in order for the non-infected party to be at risk.  If you do manage a sex trade business, then definitely, all of your employees should be required by law to be tested frequently.   There are a few other ways to contract H.I.V........please refer to an article by AIDS.gov at http://aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/how-you-get-hiv-aids/  for full details.  All of the methods by which H.I.V. can be contracted DO involve body fluids coming into contact with a mucous membrane or damaged tissue,  or being directly injected into your bloodstream (by a needle or syringe) for transmission to possibly occur.
 

stop all trade as well

Yes, I suppose that would be one's feeling....IF one believes that the current pro-Palestinian propaganda is 100% factual, with no distortions of the truth or outright lies. And, IF one ovelooks the stated goals and historical methods used by each to attain their stated goal.

I, personally, have greater ease in believing Israeli statements as to their intentions, motivations and "what really happened" than I do in believing a sources within a Palestinian government currently headed by President Mahmoud ABBAS who has no political rival, and who to all intents and purposes, is a Yassir Arafat in a suit and tie! Follow that with the accompanying powerful influence of, and likely successor HAMAS parlimentarian Aziz Dweik, who apparently under "Palestinian basic law" is stipulated to be ABBAS's successor in the event of his being unfit or unable to carry out his duties. (see: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/19/slow_death_palestinian_democracy_fayyad_abbas), and perhaps you can understand why I am more liable to believe that many of the photos and video clips proclaiming atrocities allegedly commited by Israelis, are staged events, specifically designed to inflame anti-Israeli public feeling.

HAMAS is an organization whose sole goal is the "destruction and erradication of Israel". It is an organization designated by the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan , Egypt and Japan as a terrorist organization, while others, such as Iran, Russia, Turkey and China as well as many Arab nations claim them to be non-terrorists in spite of their tactics! Whatever you believe them to be, they openly state their sole goal is the total destruction and erradication of Israel. They have shown themselves to be absent of any morality by way of their historical terroristic tactics of plane hi-jackings, suicide bombings (in many cases using children as the 'bombers") in civilian locations (the more densely populated, the better, locations that included schools and playgrounds) and the continued rocket attacks which replaced suicide bombings after 2007-08 (but only AFTER it became apparent that to continue these suicide attacks would be to bring absolute condemnation from their own people as well as the world!)

ISRAEL is a UN recognized and democratically ruled country whose sole goal is "peace within their borders" Name me one instance of Israel carrying out a plane hijacking, a suicide bombing or a rocket attack, provoked or unprovoked, on any area other than an area from which unrelenting attacks designed to intimidate, demoralize and kill as many of the Israeli populace as possible have been and continue to originate!!

The populace of the Gaza Strip, occupied, governed and used by HAMAS as a launching area for its unapologetic and unrelenting war on Israel are undeniably victims. But just who is their oppressor AND the root cause for their sad plight? HAMAS gets my vote 100%!! Which is why I continue to align myself on the side of Israel while at the same time hoping that a solution to the continued victimization of both Israel and Palestine can be discovered.

Is it possible that you have similar hopes? If so, is it possible that any such hopes would be better realized through convincing all countries that HAMAS is a terrorist organization and therefore not deserving of any direct or indirect support?

I don't think that your apologetic propaganda is going to sway the sentiments of too many people on this thread. Actually we all know who the real terrorists are, and it is not as you would like to beleive.

What is your excuse for the continued confiscation of land, through Israeli settlements, and the blatant murder of women & children. I don't doubt that there are many in the middle east that would like to see the backs of the Israelis, or even their total destruction. Maybe you should ask yourself why, if you haven't figured that out yet.

"Apologetic propaganda"? To give one's opinion together with some supporting evidence falls under your definitiion of "apologetic propaganda"?

"Actually we all know who the real terrorists.....like to believe"? Pray relieve me of my ignorance and tell all of us readers just exactly who "we all know who the real terrorists are" to be? I breaththessly await your omniscient proclamation in this regard.

What is my "excuse for continued confiscation of land.....settlements"? Ahhh, there you have what I believe to be a two-sided coin! I can understand that a country, whose very existence is threatened by certain groups (nortably HAMAS, but also any fundamentalist Muslim Arab) feels the need to protect themelves from unknown but potential HAMAS sympathisizers who have been seen to, through their proximity to HAMAS occupied lands, give access to HAMAS militants who subsequenlty carried out attacks against the Israeli population. I am not necessarily in agreement with that because innocents end up being hurt, but undoubtedly you, NoBrainer, have the answer! Please provide it....the world awaits!!

"Blatant murder of women and children"? Now, who is spouting apologist propaganda? Tell us, the reader and, more importantly, provide your evidence for that statement to the Israeli courts, who have been seen to deal harshly with any unjustified attacks by members of the IDF against civilians, let alone "women and children"!

That there are many who "would like to see the backs of the Israelis, or even their total destruction" is a known fact! We are in agreement on that fact...and I offer that as an explanation....not excuse...an explanation for a state of mind that lends itself to no small degree of paranoia. That you can't see that as being an explanation for such paranoia on the part of any Israeli speaks possibly to an unreasoned bias on your part?

Somewhat off topic, but I will let you be the judge: I lived for sometime in a land where the murder rate rose to the horrendous level of 150 persons per 100,000 population. This contrasts with a homicide rate in most civilized cities of anywhere from below 1 to 9 persons per 100,000. Despite the high rate in my country of residence at that time, I felt that I had control and I also knew that these homicides were not directed at me personally nor did they have the intention of destroying my country of residence. My point is that: I know what my mind-set was, living there at that time, and I recall vividly the steps I and others resorted to in order to feel "somewhat safe". No, I..we didn't launch preempitive strikes against those unknown potential killers. Afterall, they were unknown and not orginating from any particular area, inside or outside our country. But I can assure you that we for damn sure armed ourselves and carried our weaponry everywhere we went. This being necessary for us to, at least have the semblance of feeling that we could protect ourselves. Not at all a comfortable existence, I can tell you!! I didn't need to see another person actually being murdered in front of me...the ongoing reports of those murders, week in and week out, was enough to put me into a whole different realm of thinking from that I had been accustomed. That said, I cannot imagine existing day in, day out, as a perceived target (suicide attacks and then incessant rocket attacks) of an organization whose self-admitted goal is for my destruction as well as my country's!!

It is for those reasons that I hold HAMAS personally responsible for the victims on both sides of this ongoing Palestine-Israeli conflict. Remove the threat of annihlation from the board....demonstrate a willingness to co-exist in some manner to be decided upon, lawfully and peacefully while keeping in mind, articles such as written by Shaykh Professor.Abdul Hadi Palazzi re who should reside in the "Land of Israel and what constitutes the "Land of Israel", according to "What the Qur'an really says. Source: http://www.templemount.org/quranland.html Decry Prof Palazzi as being guilty of "apoligetic propaganda" but cite your sources.

Back to you, NoBrainer.....but please, no UNSUPPORTED opinion as to my presenting "apologetic propaganda". If I may be so bold as to offer a suggestion? Before damning the Israeli government, their IDF and the Israeli people...??... actually walk in their shoes over the tides of history.... and then tell me how YOU would act differently!! More importantly, offer concrete solutions for this dilemma, if you must insist on a blanket condemnation! We are both entited to our opinion without such childish epithets! I neither apologize for my opinion, nor do I accept my comments to be propaganda.

stop all trade as well

Yes, I suppose that would be one's feeling....IF one believes that the current pro-Palestinian propaganda is 100% factual, with no distortions of the truth or outright lies. And, IF one ovelooks the stated goals and historical methods used by each to attain their stated goal.

I, personally, have greater ease in believing Israeli statements as to their intentions, motivations and "what really happened" than I do in believing a sources within a Palestinian government currently headed by President Mahmoud ABBAS who has no political rival, and who to all intents and purposes, is a Yassir Arafat in a suit and tie! Follow that with the accompanying powerful influence of, and likely successor HAMAS parlimentarian Aziz Dweik, who apparently under "Palestinian basic law" is stipulated to be ABBAS's successor in the event of his being unfit or unable to carry out his duties. (see: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/19/slow_death_palestinian_democracy_fayyad_abbas), and perhaps you can understand why I am more liable to believe that many of the photos and video clips proclaiming atrocities allegedly commited by Israelis, are staged events, specifically designed to inflame anti-Israeli public feeling.

HAMAS is an organization whose sole goal is the "destruction and erradication of Israel". It is an organization designated by the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan , Egypt and Japan as a terrorist organization, while others, such as Iran, Russia, Turkey and China as well as many Arab nations claim them to be non-terrorists in spite of their tactics! Whatever you believe them to be, they openly state their sole goal is the total destruction and erradication of Israel. They have shown themselves to be absent of any morality by way of their historical terroristic tactics of plane hi-jackings, suicide bombings (in many cases using children as the 'bombers") in civilian locations (the more densely populated, the better, locations that included schools and playgrounds) and the continued rocket attacks which replaced suicide bombings after 2007-08 (but only AFTER it became apparent that to continue these suicide attacks would be to bring absolute condemnation from their own people as well as the world!)

ISRAEL is a UN recognized and democratically ruled country whose sole goal is "peace within their borders" Name me one instance of Israel carrying out a plane hijacking, a suicide bombing or a rocket attack, provoked or unprovoked, on any area other than an area from which unrelenting attacks designed to intimidate, demoralize and kill as many of the Israeli populace as possible have been and continue to originate!!

The populace of the Gaza Strip, occupied, governed and used by HAMAS as a launching area for its unapologetic and unrelenting war on Israel are undeniably victims. But just who is their oppressor AND the root cause for their sad plight? HAMAS gets my vote 100%!! Which is why I continue to align myself on the side of Israel while at the same time hoping that a solution to the continued victimization of both Israel and Palestine can be discovered.

Is it possible that you have similar hopes? If so, is it possible that any such hopes would be better realized through convincing all countries that HAMAS is a terrorist organization and therefore not deserving of any direct or indirect support?

 

Charged but not yet convicted. This is not conclusive evidence of guilt.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Prasin Nunkaew, 41, was arrested yesterday and charged with raping his stepdaughter on 6 July at a rubber farm in Trang district. Mr. Prasin's wife filed the complaint with police.
That's pretty conclusive to me. Justice was dished out. It's over.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, although it appears from continuing remarks in a similar vein to yours, that I am.....You state:

 

"Mr.Prasin's wife filed the complaint with police." .......justice was dished out. It's over."  

                                                      

With respect, Ozemade, I truly hope that you are wrong,  The mere fact that a complaint was filed should not, in a civilized society, translate into an automatic pre-trial conviction and sentence of death!!  Why have courts, judges, prosecutors, defence attorneys?   i.e. Why have a judicial system at all except to set out the offence.  Based upon your remarks, it would appear that I could then "file a complaint" with the police stating that you, Ozemade, sexually assaulted my niece.  Maybe they questioned my niece, we don't know.  If she was, .did she confirm the assault, we don't know?  You claiim your innocence and deny having committed the charge!!  You end up in remand anyway, and are beaten to death, just like Mr. Nonkaew.  Based upon your remarks, it would be proper for everyone to say  "What does it matter?  " ..XXX filed the complaint with police....it's over" 

Ya just gots to be kiddin, Oze!!"
 

Can Thaivisa please advise what, if any, follow-up is taking place in this matter?   i.e. . Has an investigaton into his murder resulted in charges against the perpetrators?  If so, who has been charged and with what?  If not, why not? ;  Is any action being contemplated with regard to the conditions that allowed this murder to occur?  Has anything further been disclosed as to what evidence in total exists to support the charge against Mr. Nonkhaew?  Or are his relatives (mother,father,sister, brother, whoever they might be) as well as we, the public, now to just let this matter fade from our memory?  Yesterday';s news!  Until the next time...when the victim apparently might be you or me?  I don't know how such things work in Thailand....I've only lived here for a couple of years....but I have difficulty in believing that Thais are so passive as to allow such an event go unchallenged. Am I just a naive Falang?   If Mr. Nonkhaew were my brother/son/cousin, I would be "screaming" for an enquiry that addressed all of the above issues.  Where are you, the 4th Estate, in this?