steveromagnino

well, as far as I can tell here the banks work exactly the same as banks elsewhere; not sure how earnings to borrowing ratio is not the same as an income multiple.. but I also have no idea what the Thai with foreign partner who provides the paychecks process works like... all i can comment on is what i know from my past banking experience and my experience in getting a mortgage here last month.

I am an idiot, so I'll explain myself through the steps we went through when I set up a new bank which was focused on home loan lending mostly...I cannot remember all of it as this was like 7 years ago now....

So... first off there are two issues:

1. what is bank's exposure for a property - we were willing to go to 80% for standalone property live in and 50% exposure for apartments or rental properties with no exceptions except where multiple properties were bundled together as security in which case we would run at 50% of the portfolio although an individual property could go up to 80% even if it was a rental (big tax advantages to running a big mortgage on rental properties vs. where you live)....this was based on an independent valuation. Some banks went up as high as 95% borrowing...usually with higher rates as well; it was a scam really and some got really burnt with apartments

My experience is the Thai banks go through the same steps although will generally go to about 70-80% max on all property types; sometimes the banks will do a deal with a developer; exactly as in other markets, where they know and trust the quality of a to be built.

2. what is your ability to service - we worked on mortgage payments being 35% of income after tax; but for a single person with company car and so on we could be pressed to go as high as 50% with an impressive presentation... particularly if someone had a stable job record, had a budget, had saved the deposit themselves and so on.

Depending on term of the mortgage and prevailing interest rate, ability to service as a percentage of monthly pay check is fairly easy way to confirm the person can pay; that's exactly the same as what the Thai banks did when I approached them.

3. what is our risk you'll default

Most Thai people I associate with don't have foreign partners and they get mortgages all the time...often with a letter of reference from their boss which is why companies like CP, Central, Precious Shipping or so on carry more weight; they are less likely to go bankrupt than XYZ Trading Ltd which is a 1m baht registered capital company with 3 staff and in business a year.

For self employed whose parents had given them the deposit, with no credit record, well we would be more suspicious in the bank I was at, and for a foreign person with possibility of revoked work permit; ability to walk away and so on (look at all the empty defaulted on apartments with Korean/Japanese owners in 1997/98) well the bank has to be more cautious...why lend to a risk when there are plenty of less risky people around to lend to? Of course foreign partner guarantor is something I know little about

So the bank looks at all 3; not just one, to figure out:

- should we lend

- how much as a percent of valuatoin of the property

- what rate can they service at (term, value of mortgage)

And as far as I can tell, perhaps a little less efficiently, the Thai banks go through the same steps as the bank(s) I dealt with and worked at overseas.

I'd say a foreigner with no local support might get 60%-70% borrowing on valuation based on repayments running at somewhere around 35% of net income after tax... with a work permit, history of working here and perhaps a couple of referees who the bank person might know.

Conan -

all very true... for myself, I chose to be a big fish in small pond rather than tiny minnow in massive lake of Hollywood....worked for a while, never made the big money but enough to be happy with, well, 1 million baht paycheck for a single job; that was the best i did regionally....so there is some money to be made, even for a fairly talentless sod like myself :-)

I also know someone kicking butt in Bollywood and India; more on the modelling side than acting....is the person you know 1/2 Thai 1/2 English?!

For action, and your style of action, I really do think HK is probably where it is at, but I am not expert in this particular market; I know the Tony Jaa guys and his gang are all well skilled and train super hard; this may become another centre for that kind of stuff..... plus with so much more stuff being shot overseas these days....well it is all good to live here and do something other than the WAM of LA.

well not exactly yesterday; a few days ago; yep... wow time flies faster than I thought....

I don't think that it is that easy to move from market to market.... I used to get a lot of work here, but when I went to Singapore where my look is still good, it was like starting from scratch again....

I would say that personal contacts, the right agent and so on are tough to get... you sort them out and you are ready to bat....

So getting some basic experience here is good, but you have to hope that somehow you'll meet the right person who can take you to USA; tough tough market otherwise.

Plus she is staying in some apartment in Lard Prao which is not even that expensive; and she could easily probably have got free gym at Cali fitness or even a decent gym using her title.

I met her yesterday, and she is honestly a slight minor head turner, but aboslutey not special at all..... I liked at least 3-4 other contestants well more than her...

nuff said. she is a moron.

DavieA

Let's just say your opinion adds little to the thread and perhaps I hope you said it at least a little tongue in cheek.

Otherwise, you might accidentally make yourself look a bit like a racist.

I wouldnt say Thailand as a whole but Phukets ecomonmy would collapse without farangs.. No question..

Its not just the diret tourism or direct expenditure its the 1000's of Thais that depend indirectly on the farangs and in turn thais benefiting from the first tier thais..

Ah.... I think the reason Phuket has collapsed is because of lack of Japanese and Asian tourists; the spending statistics and visitor statistics indicate that higehst of the spending per person is from Japanese for almost every category.... so I think when you say "farang".... well the average stats of visitors from Australia, England, USA etc are not that high in terms of spending, and in fact the transfer of Asian visitors to western visitors for many businesses has been the problem thjis year; package western tourists don't spend that much.

Besides which we weren't talking about tourism, which is well documented in terms of total projected spending and impact, we are talking about residents.

For western (farang) residents alone; my guess is if they all exited en mass; many parts of the Thai economy would be completely unaffected. Some parts would not, off hand:

- many areas in Isaan which are propped up through subsidies from farang husbands and donations to people who are otherwise not working

- NEP, PP, Soi Cowboy

- Pattaya would really tank

- Parts of Phuket

- import based businesses that rely on specialist expertise such as fine western food imports, luxury goods

- BKK & Pattaya condo market would tank

- less competitive business environment in some industries, with some reduction in skills, strategic planning especially

- school teaching english business would struggle on with higher prices and worse teachers from India/Philipines etc

- western restuarant/club business would collapse

Long term what might happen? I would hope you might see a development of self reliance in the poorer parts of Isaan and a lower dependance on the beggar/sell yourself/mooch off someone else mentality that some people have there perhaps more than the other provinces...however this might be a poor vs. rich issue; however I've seen the study from the NESDB and I just can't see the poor people in the south fronting up at NEP in quite the same way with quite the same indifference....

However, really no idea.... easier to imagine what would happen with no tourists than no residents. So hard to measure the long term benefits/detriment to the economy of residents.

Even defining how to measure the financial impact of expats would be daunting.

Whiteshiva

You have succintly summed up my thoughts; the impact on the economy from the expertise, rather than direct financial impact of earnings..... I am a little skeptical how much value some of the expats I run into actually add; in the business I work in most seem to be thumb twiddlers who are just there to deal with the other thumb twiddlers, while their poorly paid Thai staff do all the work and they actually have little idea what goes on.

But then I think of some of the entreprenuers I know, some with 100+ staff all doing something well beyond the imagination of any local before them....

Interestingly, I do know a lot of Japanese expats here, benefits of a Japanese girlfriend and all that. Compared to westerners it would seem they are actually pretty poorly paid; most that I know earn somewhat less than 100k a month for quite senior positions that an American, Brit or Aussie would probably be expecting 150-200k expat package.

However, I think they make up in total package; entertainment budget, housing that sort of thing.

Salary 50k

Membership at Resort 20k

License to entertain clients whenever they are in town priceless

I don't have that much problem with her being Miss Thailand from Australia, after all Miss UK UNiverse was clearly American; Miss Norway Universe was 1/2 Thai....

however, the way thereafter she has behaved is rediculous; don't enter if you don't want to do it.... she would have made more here than any other country; now she has ruined probably 3-10 years of 3-4m income a year (based on what the other Miss Worlds earned).... idiot.

Probably her dopy parents are behind it.....

I suspect this is just so if you have other income or there is some mistake made or you are not declaring something, that it is your problem.

Same as most companies; they are just spelling out you are responsible for personal tax.

However, if they are deducting correctly, it should be fine; just hire one of the finance dept staff to review and check a couple of times a year should be fine; the CFO will probably check and help you out to make sure; the company just probably wants to not be involved if you start moonlighting etc.

My family has around 10,000 rai of which I think currently 500 rai produces rubber... at this sort of size, the key thing is to get rubber tappers that know what they are doing... it isn't quite as easy as you might think.

We split the money 50 50 with the rubber tappers, and I am not actively involved but recall:

- the rubber tappers (with current prices) now have a nice family estate down the road with 2 brand new 2 storey houses and seem to looking up in the world :-) they produce it into sheets at which point they sell

- the tree will produce from about 6 years- 25 years (? that I could be wrong about) after which time the wood is now valuable for furniture

- the tree can produce around 6 months a year

- the tapping if done manually HAS to be done early in the morning...so while our tappers may be well wealthy at the moment, I am sure that they are all too tired to spend their money, which is the real reason why they are rich

- trees seem to survive, once adult, with not too much water; planting can be more difficult; we lost about 1 in 3 of 200 rai of newly planted saplings this year with the dry Isaan weather

Have never heard or seen the gas thing; might have to check it out. Mind you we got most of the land years and years ago; more recently added 200 rai at about 7,000b per rai in the middle of nowhere and useless for pretty much anything other than growing trees (either Euca or rubber).. Saduek.

This is not a good job for a family that are not rubber tappers... it is actually quite lonely and hard work; and if they are not stakeholders (e.g. getting 50%) then it is not worth it. Better to find someone who is, give them 50% and share the other 50% with the rice/sugar cane farmer who wants to sit on his ass drinking whisky which some are prone to do. Without getting into the politics of meea farang it really is a case of easy come easy go; in the case of the tappers we use they work hard and get well paid at the moment; things could be quite different it prices slide, but as of the last 2 years they seem happy.

I believe there are more expats than myself earning more than the minimum salary requirement. In addition, some expats here are running multi-million dollar businesses. I think your figure is off by about a decimal point. At least.

Difficult to say if this is true or not; certainly there are expats here without work permits; retired expats and so on.... the number earning 10 times the 50k per month estimate... well I can think of the hundred expats I know (all business people) and probably 10% are earning the 10 times number, the rest are clustered around the 50k mark. There are a number of retired people here; each contributing something to the economy.

If we get into the next step of analysis....value to the economy.... well that is where the big variations and difficulty in measurement begin.

The key value that some expats may add is in doing businesses that would otherwise not be here; e.g. a windsurfing brand (2 here I know of); some IT outsourcing; some consulting; manufacturing boats - things that perhaps employ many workers yet would not be here were it not for 1 or several expats' specialist knowledge/drive to create that industry here... this is probably where there is perhaps a more sizeable effect on the economy; how you would measure it I am not sure. How can you say for instance, that Minor Group is XZ% the result of some expat working there, and XY% the result of Bill & and the Thais working there? For sure, the business succeeds at least in part as a result of Bill, but he is no longer an expat, he is now a Thai...and what about companies like say McKinsey who are indeed foreigner expats working here? Do we say they are adding points to the GDP when they do consulting - even though their staff in the office are mostly Thai?>...this gets tough; I cannot see that you could easily do a bottom up, because the data is too hard to get; better to just guestimate.

We can then also calculate the "drain effect" of so many expats' businesses here; for instance Louis Vuitton which is a forex drain, as money flows away from Thailand to France.... and this is where the majority of expats probably work. I always forget; GDP and GNP will be different for this right?

And the other drain is the money that expats take out of the country; a sizeable proportion of income of companies and personal income ends up going offshore; so while earned here, it in fact flows to some other country.... I suppose the offset would be the considerable amount of money sent back here which is generated overseas; however I would not count that as foreigners sending money here so much as the industry of a selected group of men and women providing a service to foreigners with the income then being generated and sent back to Thailand, and often provincial Thailand.

Whiteshiva; if you are not an American, then your company here is perhaps 49% foreign and 51% Thai? So.... how much of the success is the result of you, and would there be a Thai equivalent if you weren't here? If not, then the marginal benefit of your input to the economy is arguably the returns you make yourself and also provide to your workers above the average wage; if your business was not here, they would be doing something else which might not be so beneficial to the economy.... of course if it is an import business (as pretty much so many of the expat businesses here are) then it may be a drain on the economy if it is a non essential good (wine, imported food, luxury fashion, etc); or it could be a massive boost to the economy if it is a factor of production of something....

The mind boggles at how you can calculate this all out! Good luck with that, would love to hear the answer!

And of course, to make the joke more relevant, it had to be Nohng Mam, which is a reference to the "Queen of Soap Operas" who recently announced that on a health check she was 5 months pregnant to her surprise!

I just saw THE funniest show last night on TV; Channel 5 at about 10 or 11; all the famed comedians I like in 1 show; it is greeeeeaat.

True, good point, but yes in my case I will not remit this money back as you say, so no problem :-)

That was like my niece called แหม่ม when she was overseas. She was going to go back to Thailand, and my mum said, if a guy grabs your breast, you should say "อย่า"

She said but what if he grabs my waist or lower? Then my mum said, you should say "หยุด"

So.. anyway, 5 months later she announces that she is pregnant!!! We were SHOCKED!

I ask her how it happened after my mum's good advice.....

แม่สอนดี แต่แฟนหนูจับนมและที่อื่นด้วย หนูก็บอกไอหื่นอย่าหยุด!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you could do a few snap shot analyses which would provide some quick answers... TAT does a large survey each year ongoing by nationality, which measures spending by nationality and duration of stay.

n=10,000 so this is fairly meaningful stuff. In the business I work it, all their numbers bear out the results.

Japanese are highest spenders per day here, followed by Indians and Arabs. For almost all categories. Westerners tend to be somewhere near the lower end of the developed countries; then right at the bottom are Burmese, Cambodian, Laos, etc.

This is all annual data available from the TAT; interestingly, when calculated back it becomes clear that the value of tourism is perhaps not as great as expected, and throws some serious doubt on the value of western tourism being the "engine" behind the Thai economy (if there wasn't some doubt already ;-).

NESDB has done studies on the impact on certain villages of farang husband syndrome, for want of a better word, and this would provide some data to project on the possible impact of money coming in from brides abroad inc.

I think the phrase is....

ทะลึ่งโดนตบ

Talueng dohn dtop

Which is something like.... "man you are dirty minded; I might just have to give you a slap upside yo' head aiight"

taleung = something like a dirty joke/lamok/dirty minded

dohn = to make contact with something

dtop = slap

You keep going, you is well going to get a slap with that dirty mouth of yours innit.

Yep,,something like that.

Man, I have to take another english course...

I mean... you estimate lower pay, I estimate higher pay...

I am in no way on the hoity toity upper end of anything!

All good Moog...you be a well good synthesizer innit.

Well, I quote based on the numbers i know; never have worked as an extra, but my girlfriend makes this much; then again she has a fairly unique look and so one country's ads shot here who tend to pay well like her in the background. Again, I am rereading what I wrote and wondering how I ever passed english?! She earns that a month working a few days (and going to well more castings than that sometimes).

I have been offered/in discussion for movie leads, and that is about what the lead role pays; it could have dropped a lot in the last 2 years, but I would guess some productions are around the numbers I am talking... no matter what though this is still a pretty poor amount of change when we consider 5 days a week...for 3 months.... long hours... and all that for only 200k! - 3 months at 200k is not so different to 1 month at 80k BTW; I think you are probably on the lower end; I am on the upper end but the picture compared to a western market is not so good in this business....

But to put in perspective, I know the lead of 999 earned 1m for about 2 months of work, so it does depend to some degree... and that is so much the case for this business - one role in a 3 days ad can pay 1.6m; then the same role for a simliar company taking a similar amount of time can pay 15k.... and there is no rhyme or reason to it at all!

I think the money is easiest made on ads; they have the best budget per second of film....plus some of the trick tools in the business - motion master and so on; well they can afford to use that for the ads... but not always for the films.

Good luck for the gig in Oct Moog :-) Enjoy the set food...that was always my favourite bit

Yep Moog; read my second post; guess I should read more carefully.

Alexander?! I suspect that is a good example for direct bookings; local market didn't know much about that one; they sourced Hollywood style; exactly the point I am making here.... not sure who did the casting; Conan you need to find out who the casting agencies are for any of these big projects, and hook into those. The leads I gave you for production houses may be able to assist.....

Modelling agencies here look after models. Talent agencies are mostly extras and children. and maybe dogs. all poorly paid; you are well ahead of that.

Of course there are no 7 ft Thais; ppl like the athletic stuff (Thai boxing, kungfu, etc AND there are plenty of people who can do that (not that are 7 ft tall!); also they are cheap!

I am sure there are parts; but there is a big difference between doing a couple of days work a month earning 20,000b as an extra and earning a decent amount doing foreign ads and movies - I hope that the companies I listed have some of the second type available.

For locally produced movies, FYI big guy, the Thai leads often earn as little as 200,000 working full time for up to 3 months; the movie business is not where the money is for most of them; the top soap opera actors actually make more. That's why you rarely see top actors in the movies.

Of course, Tom Yung Goong and a few other films are exceptions, but in general of the 50 local movies made a year, most are fairly low budgets... if you can hook into the foreign productions or advertising...well that is where it is at. Any extra work is kind of a bonus.

Also...work on your Thai skills; who knows, there may be some use for that; and it is easy enough since you are here already.

>>Last Miss Universe winner for Thailand was in 1988, Porntip Nakhirunkanok. She definitely does not look at all Thai.

er...what?! 100% Thai?! Sure..raised in USA and a nose job but she definitely looks Thai to me.... hmmm... I guess i must be missing something...what are all contestants supposed to look Isaan? Guess that alienates the other three regions... ditto for south...for north...for central....

There is no single "Thai" look!

BUt I agree, the Aussie dog is a slapper.

I reread and you are here already!

Ah...ok. Well, regarding the work permit, technically you need it, and you WILL have problems if you acheive some success then decide you want to stay; or you reach a higher status; the police may decide to see you.

Or more likely, some other dodgy person may dob you in, and then avoid paying you/get the work you were getting/etc.

Get the permit if you are doing anything of scale with you name attached to it. You won't be hard to find.

I also suggest you might like to expand your repotoire while here; Muay Thai is on a whole other level; you won't find anyone for sparring but you may be able to learn some new moves anyway.

Best of luck; if I know of any relevant job I will private message you. I haven't worked in this indsutry a while though :-)

You will be somewhat wasting your time contact modelling and talent agencies here, as your talents are very specialised; based on your wrestling comment I am assuming stunts, character roles and the like.

The problem is.... in Asia your massive size and stuff is not as respected as perhaps someone who can do athletic stuff...and there are a ton of locals who can do that...so it will be a case of simply being able to put yourself forward for something major.

I would suggest that a few major production houses may have use for you for advertising, which is where the big money is:

- Matching Studio

- Film Factory

- Go Getter

- Hub Ho Hin

- Siam Studio

- Kantana

The first and last three also do some other stuff as well.... going into gameshows and the like.

For movies, you want to get in touch with Sahamongkol Films and Seea Jiang is the guy who finances all the projects basically personally... they are in the IBM Building on Ari.

If you are not here, I cannot see how you will get any roles. If you are based in Aussie and they want someone here, they will scour agencies around the world to get that person, so being here won't have any major bearing on that. If you are here, you might get a few character parts, but you are going to be poorly paid; there is no way you'll earn as much as the lead male and definitely no way you'll match a lead woman. Since lead males earn as little as 20,000b a day for TV shown locally (and less for white people ever since some of the farang kee nok from Khao San got into this business) you are going to be earn way less than Australia or other markets.

Direct bookings are the way to go my man; I cannot think of a single project I have ever been involved with where someone of your stature would be required, and so that leads me to believe that for the few major roles (such as Tom Yung Goong) it will be direct booking; getting in touch with Kantana, Matching Studio, Siam Studio and Sahamongkol can be done easily enough from where you are.

Of course, most of these will use a casting house; there are probably 100 of these and many are one person shows; however I think your physique is such that someone is going to remember if they get your portfolio or faceshots stuff.

Kantana does a lot of soap operas; possibly there is work there although with no language you would be earning very little. Other soap opera companies include TV Thunder, Polyplus, Lanintus... I have listed, you can figure out internet or something to find their contact details for email.

Re. shortlists... I made almost every short list I test for, and even then my hit rate used to be around 10-15%. Your hit rate may be higher because you are a lot more special than me; however I think that you should not put too much into 1 or 2 tests; the hard part will be to build a career on such a specialist role. Bear in mind there are Thai guys who play the part of gun wielding and boxing gangsters already and they earn must less plus can play the sceen with Thai language. For most soap operas, the action scenes are shot single take 3 cameras, so it is not like you will get to use your skills. Movies and ads are where it is at, and the demand is just not so great.

If this is to be a stepping stone, that is one thing.... I would have thought USA has much more demand for this; or HK in Asia.

Fanta Rood

Some advice.... if you are indeed 1/2 Thai, then you can find a successful career here doing almost anything provided you have some energy, some plans and some aptitude for what you choose to do. Therefore, you should probably persue something you enjoy.

If we are talking about where to make serious money; business is probably where it is at. You are bilingual, and there are a bunch of companies here, particularly foreign companies, that need someone to act as the conduit between the local workers and the foreign shareholders. Most of these companies currently post some expat who generally adds less value through not speaking Thai; they add more value because they have expertise in the "western" or "Japanese" way of doing things...so if you can have both, then you are very valuable; that is basically the situation I am in now.

In terms of earning expectation; well 100,000b before age 30 is most certainly quite doable, but like anything it depends on your aptitude and your willingness to work - presentation skills are also important, and as a personal note any arrogance might be well tolerated online or in USA but overconfidence is despised in Thailand.

TO get to this point...I suggest a business degree in probably finance & marketing (not accounting, economics is fairly useless, IT goes out of date) and at the same time go and try to get into the programs for undergrads at McK, BCG, etc - if you are as good as you seem to be making out, that should be doable. Then work in USA for 2 years, complete an MBA at a top 50 school; THEN come to Thailand.

You will also need the following as the expectation for 1/2 Thais can be higher (andyou may earn more than full Thais)

- fluency in spoken Thai close to 100%

- some reading and writing ability, although much less important

- that you "fit in" and understand how Thai people think

- family and connections are important; especially to get into a decent firm

- somewhat attractive - Thailand is sometimes superficial; how you look and present yourself is important

This is just one option.... there are many ways to do things, but I would not rush to come here; do some time in a foreign country and you will learn things that are so easy there; you come here and do the same things and you can be a genius sometimes; easy wins and go from there.

BTW I don't think most of the ppl in this thread are jealous (note the spelling); not all the people replying are farang; many are doing the things you wish to do - perhaps you should read a little about presentation skills and interaction skills - on some levels you are acting more like some spoilt western brat than the Thai people I know of your age.

Best regards

>>This whole thing is so funny!

Could this also happen in Enlgand?

I don't know, but I can imagine that within fifty to a hundred years, half of Britain will be speaking broken English....

( BTW, who is Wayne Rooney?

I had to look after the Miss Universe UK contestant, this year, who spoke with a fairly clearly obvious American accent! Miss Norway was 1/2 Thai, and did her interviews here, some of them anyway, in Thai.

THe world is getting smaller, and not all contestants are really genuinely "native" of the countries they win in.

That said, the Aussie chick was not good looking; I saw them shooting their "frolicking" scenes at the beach and in person there were plenty of better lookers than her.