steveromagnino

market research says.....

For the mythical hot chula grad Thai Chinese woman with a proper entry level management decent job and parents to impress: Benz A Class 180 or BMW 116

For the mythical slightly older Thai Chinese woman with a senior level management decent job: Benz C or E Class

Why spend more on a pain-in-the-arse TC woman?

I say mythical, because it seems so common that Farangs living here will introduce me to their GF as 'this is my Thai-Chinese GF K Nok" etc etc. For some reason it appears to matter to some to point out that their GF is not from Isaan, I do not understand why this is, but felt it worthwhile to point out that while Noi from Khon Kaen might settle for a cheap eco car, Nok from Sampaeng might be wanting something with a bit more class.

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I very much doubt she gives a toss, she is a British Citizen, living in a country that allows freedom of speech. She's not likely to return here anytime soon.

Freedom when it is against the Thai Monarchy. If it is against UK or USA than there isn't that much freedom....see the Snowden situation where they threatened the newspapers

What a joker you are. The Snowden situation is about stolen files not about freedom of speech. The UK and USA are some of the most free countries the world has ever seen and speech is not stifled.

If British law is so free, why do people so frequently complain about British libel law (burden of proof placed on the defendant as per the McLibel case)?

You state that Snowden is not about freedom of speech refer quote below - if this is the case why does UK only rate at 33rd in freedom of the press - I would not really describe that as 'some of the most free'?

http://rsf.org/index2014/en-eu.php

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/content/uk-slips-33rd-place-reporters-without-borders-world-press-freedom-index-2014

"The United Kingdom (33rd, -3) distinguished itself in the war on terror by the disgraceful pressure it put on The Guardian newspaper and by its detention of David Miranda, journalist Glenn Greenwald’s partner and assistant, for nine hours. Both the US and UK authorities seem obsessed with hunting down whistleblowers instead of adopting legislation to rein in abusive surveillance practices that negate privacy, a democratic value cherished in both countries."

Appears VW is thinking about a factory here, if so then VW prices will fall... will a 2 million baht price now VW be sold for less the 1 million new in a year or so time ?

Eg: Nissan Juke was near 2 million mark, now made here is 800,000 baht !! will a 3 year old one for near 1.5 million ever sell ? http://www.thaicar.com/used-cars/d81740/nissan-juke-.html

It will be 2017 supposedly when VW are set up to actually produce cars at the earliest, and while they might produce cars on the MQB platform (the base for the Golf, Scirocco, Tiguan, etc) there is little chance of them selling the cars talked about in this thread (Roc, Golf GTI) for sub 1m.

Nissan already sells the Juke at low prices in other markets, it was only expensive here because it was a grey import, also the grey imports tended to be decent versions of the car, the 800k version of a subcompact fiesta/tiida with a higher ride height and different body has the most basic engine and no turbo, no 4WD, no leather interior etc. That one for 1.5m I question if they can sell that though :-) that looks pricy!

By comparison, a Golf GTI which is currently around 2.3m new, would likely be priced higher than the Honda Civic so at least around 1.5m, and since it will likely be built in the same way as BMWs (not exactly built from scratch but built with imported parts) you would guess it will be at least on par with the Volvo V40, around 1.7-1.9m - lower than a BMW/Benz, higher than a Japanese car is where VW puts the VW brand. No point to price it cheaper than that, a Golf for around 1.8m baht is a very, very attractive price compared to a Benz A class or a BMW 1 series. The base model Golf 1.4 which I think Yarnyon sells new for around 1.6m would drop to perhaps 1.1-1.2m, but again, it is a more premium brand and a better quality car with a higher price in general than equivalent Japanese cars, so I really doubt you'd see one for under 1m.

Perhaps a base model Polo or Skoda Fabia, but that's like comparing an Altis to an Yaris, they are different size cars.

The Tiguan would be a major winner in the market, if they could get it to around 1.8m for a reasonable spec one, as that would sit it below the GLA and the X1, but above the CRV and the Craptiva etc. Again, that's VW's position, more premium interiors than the Japanese brands with a slightly higher price, so it feels like a European car inside and has cost savings sharing the platform with its stable mates.

Amarok will be pitched against the Ford Ranger etc and due to the tax, this is the one model you might see close to parity against the Japanese/US brands, but I still suspect they would focus on the versions that are most popular in Australia and the region, so probably no low end models, instead focus on mid to upper end of the pickup spectrum if they did launch here, around 800 - 1.2m baht....and people would probably pay it.

Difficult to know but if they did bring in a factory capable of producing multiple brands, Skoda, VW, Audi - then we might see some attractive prices on the Skoda and a price drop on the Audi as well compared to fully assembled cars coming in at top tax bracket....but again it's not going to be before 2016 at the earliest.

the main issue with 2nd hand if you are financing, is that you are stung 3X (2X for a Benz)

- higher interest rate

- you have to pay VAT on the financing (adding 7% onto the price of the car)

- you miss out on the BSI/maintenance deals

If you are a cash buyer, then 2nd hand is not so bad; if financing, then new usually works out better.

A ford Ecosport is a little subcompact Fiesta with high ground clearance. It is not a big car. it is noticeably smaller than a CRV or a Subaru XV (the XV is a much nicer looking car IMHO). If you want a cheap SUV with low depreciation ,then the CRV is almost a no brainer. While the Tucson, XV are all in some way nicer looking and cooler, the issue living in Chiang Mai will be servicing, and resale. Ford or a Nissan Juke (similar sizes) are both nice cars, but they are not in the same category; they are more like a Fiesta/Honda Jazz etc in size. Just higher ground clearance.

OP - the grey market will have Mini F56s before the authorised dealer; you might also like to call German Auto to find out when their stock arrives (possibly before Mini Ekamai which is the other dealer network of Millenium) as they are a NEW authorised dealer finally breaking the monopoly of Millenium for MINI brand. http://www.germanauto.co.th/ they rate as the highest (from memory) in customer satisfaction studies for BMW dealers in Thailand.

If you go grey, there are already F56s kicking around, you can visit www.one2car.com and the navigation is not so complex. The area on the mid right the 2nd field is in English with the car brand, and then the field below that 3rd field is the model. The grey bar in that same area is the search button.

http://www.one2car.com/search/Search_Result.aspx?Brand=B0005&Model=S0020&&Body=D2811

Here is an F56 available now. Grey though.

The only issue with the A class is that dual clutch and weird gear selection, which would drive even the most patient driver around the bend. Maybe the 180 is ok, the 250 was unbearable. Also, Benz has no BSI equivalent, which kind of sucks. If they have a fix for this, that would be a great car. the GLA having looked at it seems like a jacked up A class, which much like the V40 cross country or the ford ecosport, appears to serve not much purpose unless you have kids and some problem climbing in and out of a low car and want a nicer marginally higher view of traffic....at the cost of worse handling.

The C-Class I now realise is actually 2.79m for the new model, so maybe there's less of a gap between the new C and the CLA of the sedans, even though it looks great from most angles there is one 3/4 angle from the rear that the CLA looks very dumpy; the A on the other hand looks great from every angle.

All depends a little on how much the driving matters; hard to imagine buying a basic model Benz and expecting it to drive particularly well; the basic model smaller Beemers tend to be quite ok if somewhat underpowered IMHO. C Class also seems a little like it is trying, whereas the CLA and the A both have a bit more attitude (again, something that is in the eye of the beholder, I also think the 1 series is a little more attitude and cooler than the 3).

U mean stay away from the pre 2012 cooper s models??

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sorry very unclear.

I mean don't buy a NEW R56 (model year 2007-2013) Mini Cooper or Cooper S, as it is about to be superceded by the new F56 model. Second hand is fine, and in fact 2nd hand Mini is a nice car to buy; you could pick up a lower mileage one fairly cheaply, and unlike a lot of the other cars, there are enough of them around that servicing is not difficult.

However, personally if you like driving, I would go for the R56 Cooper S, not the R56 Cooper S JCW and not the Cooper; the Cooper S r56 drives markedly better than the cooper (which is sloooooow). The JCW is too expensive for the performance difference IMHO.

back to the OP

By comparison the F56 the 2 models are a lot closer together, so the Cooper would be a better option if performance isn't the single most important thing; it will still handle really well, and is a new model year car with slightly bigger size than the outgoing R56 model - I always believe in getting cars early in their model life, not at the end. The Cooper is not so bad to consider grey, simply because it is easy to service them, as they are relatively common (there are something like 5,000++ mini hatches in Thailand at least,and half of them are grey). However, grey doesn't always help you so much in that the car is marginally cheaper upfront, and marginally cheaper when you sell it. The only one around now is the Cooper S; in your position I'd go for the Cooper.

http://showroom.one2car.com/carDetail.aspx?car_id=d01140422

The Paceman is effectively a 2 door countryman, just as much of a dogs breakfast design wise and even less practical; Mini are looking at discontinuing it if the rumours are true. The advantage of the Countryman I think is they are locally assembled, so cheaper than a hatch; as it is a pseudo SUV the pricing is not so bad; look 1 is 1.84m baht and you don't expect it to really drive well (and it won't, it's an SUV after all). 2.49m for the countryman with the cooper S engine in it, again though its mid life model wise - cooper s will drive sort of ok; way more practical than a hatch if you expect to fit in more than 3 people EVER in the car. The paceman is 500k - 1m baht more for what, 2 less doors in a model that will be discontinued ? no thanks! I'd pick the F56 cooper over the country man every time

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140313/carnews/140319905

VW Thailand still doesn't have access to the mark 7 golf GTI, so the only option is grey at the moment; which doesn't bode well if you want to service it (upcountry can be tough to get access to mechanics).

Which kind of leads you back to the A180, BMW116, and that's why people keep buying them; not really a car that makes my pulse race, but price wise and service wise, pretty understandable. Hate to repeat again, but really take the time to take a look at the Volvo V40, in terms of looks and straight line performance it really is a step above the A180 and the 116....for the same money. The more logical choice (not really a drivers car, but it is a new model is a C class (new model just came out) 2.3m; better value than the A class or CLA, and easier to service.

I'd say it's really down to Mini Cooper F56; BMW 116, and both are fairly close to available now.

vw scirocco, mini cooper, audi a1 or a3. This is the first tier choice. (But some may be ruled out as outside budget - maybe a demo car?)

toyota gt86, mercedes gal

Out of this list, I would almost say you should consider to knock the A3 off the list, they are simply hardly available here, and would be a total PITA to service for the Audi specific parts; essentially it's a Roc so you should stick with an authorised dealer Rocco instead.

A1 the 185HP is a lovely car, that's around 2.5-2.6m grey market (meaning it comes in via a slight loop around as Audi Thailand is almost non existant); the 122HP version is probably a bit gutless around 2m grey market - both of these I'd be looking to buy lightly used, as the depreciation on Audis is huge in the first few years due to the grey market status and lack of dealer support. The A1 can be modified via MTM/APR etc to get it up to around 160HP, but it's still never going to be the drivers car that the Roc or the Mini is IMHO; it's a little more staid and in the Benz/BMW camp.

Mini Cooper the new F56 is an interesting car; whereas before the cooper S was supercharged (R53 generation) or turboed (R56 generation 2007-2013) (and the Cooper was normally aspirated) that is no longer the case. This makes the Cooper a more interesting car, I would guess it will be around 2.2m legit and 2.0m grey - when you consider how popular these are and how easy it would be to do a few minor tweaks (air intake, ECU tune, exhaust) to get it an extra 20HP, that would probably be the driver's car pick - if you have not previously driven a Mini then you should try one. Do not get the current R56 cooper version even on sale; it's not worth it as the new version cooper is so much better engine wise.

Could get grey or authorised depending on if there is somewhere to service it in the north. I know that CarMax Rama 9 has like 50 of the little beasts coming in soon.

If you are considering the GLA, the Countryman is IMHO a horrid twisted grown up cousin of a MINI hatch, but it is assembled locally, and probably cheaper than the GLA, in fact that's probably why the GLA is coming here - AFAIK around 2.0m and they go quite ok.

Mini has a strong resale market and hold their value well; easy to service in BKK.

"2m new is doable, 2m ex demo or very lightly used 2nd hand is a decent budget for sure. Sure, you can get a Japanese alternative for close to 1m, but it is literally about half the car as well"

I agree to disagree with your reasoning here. So if 1 mln Baht can by 165 hp like the top spec Mazda 3 for instance then which manufacturer offers twice the interior space and, 340 hp and even more features besides lane departure warning system, rear vehicle monitoring, smart city brake support, navigation, HUD, you name it.. Some of ze german manufacturers don't offer these features on 3 m Baht cars..

What jap car offers all that equipment and 340hp?

And I would add as per my original statement, for 1m baht.

The Mazda new 3 series is a pretty impressive car, genuinely new model, impressive specs. If I was in the market for a standard sedan it would be up there, except Mazda resale in the past hasn't been so hot. It's a bit hard to tell, is it a dual clutch or a slush box, and if slush box I presume not a ZF transmission? Also, 165HP isn't really quite up there for that size of car, maybe a little modification would bring it up to speed; interior still isn't there quite yet (Lexus is the gold standard for a quality Japanese car) to match a Euro car...but no doubt it's great value for money. Anyhow, OP did state he didn't want a Japanese car anyhow, but point taken this is a step beyond the Toyota, Honda, etc at that price point (as a new model).

Interior space is obviously irrelevant; Porsche Cayman has zero space, and is 6X the cost of a Mazda 3.

Congrats, sounds like a great car. Not sure which dealer you used, was it German Auto? They rate very well in customer satisfaction surveys in Thailand for Beemer.

now you can really start tuning, intake, exhaust, blowoff valve, 12 inch subs, you know you want to :-)

Thai Yarnyon are moving from being effectively VW Thailand's representative, to the dealer network, so in the meantime while VW decide what they want to do, Thai Yarnyon don't seem to be able to get much stock; all the beetles you see here are grey market AFAIK. Their big money spinner is the caravelle van (which has been affected by all those alphards you see trucking around the place).

My new car tires are 245/35s. So a fairly standard profile in other words ;-)

Haven't driven the new car much as I can't really park it at work, my current daily driver (also a performance car of sorts which has been modified a little) is also on lowish profile rims, and being a smaller, lower car is more likely to have issues with bottoming out, something incidentally that my old BMW was probably one of the worst cars I have ever owned for doing - it would bottom out on everything.

Scotssing strangely enough, a fancy euro car (not Lamborghini fancy, but a few rungs below that) is far LESS likely to attract attention unless doing something exceedingly stupid- especially if windows are tinted out, police tend to assume it is belonging or connected to some 'phoo-yai' and therefore less worth bothering. The most times I ever used to get pulled over was when I drove a pickup; that's the bread and butter (along with motorcycles) for Thai police, sadly.

I just took delivery of a BMW 116i (CBU Completely Built Unit, manufactured in Germany). Very happy with the car so far. Came with the M-package. Its a twin scroll turbo engine. I have tuned it with Hartge engine conversion, which gives you 171hp. A very smooth ride indeed. Folding rear sets. I brought two suit cases and a folding bicycle on a weekend trip. Back seat space is limited. Unfortunately no navigation, but I will retrofit the NBT iDrive myself.

BMW is going to offer a CKD model (manufactured in Thailand), but it will be equipped a bit differently. No Alcantara seats for sure.

The Hartge tune looks pretty impressive, is it running ok on gasohol 95 as well (it's the octane rating that matters more than the fuel type supposedly) or are you always able to fill up on super 95 premium? Does BMW Thailand know and endorse the tune - they claimed to me they would 'cut me off' if I fiddled with the tuning of the car (even by AC Schnitzer, part of Millenium group) but ACS were offering their own maintenance guarantee if something went wrong (still covered under BSI for normal maintenance stuff).

From what I can recall when they showed me, thee M sport variant of the 116 that they are selling now for just under 2m, has alcantara seats in the hexagon pattern, and bigger rims plus a small body kit relative to the 116i std at 1.79m).

When you consider the tune is <100,000b, it makes it a little hard for the 2 series to make sense, given it's the same motor (basically) with a different tune (184HP) which you have been able to replicate pretty much (171HP).

It's a bit like the Minis, the JCW tune (not the additional other parts, just the engine tune itself) is widely considered to be not so good by the enthusiasts, who go and get a proper tune and set of modifications elsewhere, with the power far exceeding what BMW/MINI produced out of the factory. However, the issue is with the warranty.

I am not sure what the price will be but the car I would go for from BMW if you like a small blatty hot hatch type is probably the all new 2 series coupe, which is being released this weekend at the Motorshow.

Way quicker and more powerful than the 116, 2.8/2.9m baht though depending on if you go with the M sport option, so a fair step higher than the 116, but also a substantially better, quicker car. Still a bit gutless though (it is producing only 184HP which is pretty pathetic for a sports coupe) but BMW Thailand never brings in the higher power model cars for the most part due to the tax and the price point.

I just drove past one on my way to work today - must be a demo one from BMW Thailand as it was a 120d with dealer plates from I think BMW; looks a lot cuter and cooler than the 4 series IMHO, has that slightly small look to it that is missing from the relatively boring 4 series (which looks like a long slung 3 series which is not really a car that makes me excited on any level). The 1 series hatch though is definitely a looker, although I wonder how the rear of it will age.

If you decide to stick with the 1 series then since it is not exactly a performance car, you could save your cash and get the standard one for BMW 116i (THB 1,749,000 VAT incl.) - you can always flick your own after market rims on it - but the M sport package is probably worth it when you add up the costs of everything and given that selling a car of this nature it always helps if it is 'stock' rather than after market.

Full price list (although being BMW they don't give a price for the new Mini) here

http://www.thailand4.com/.auto/2014-03-25/1635266838a27e00bfeec4457be6400e/

So in summary if you want a few other options in the same vein the BMW starts to look pretty good value - especially when you consider you pay maintenance on the Benz from day 1 (all the rest for the most part have at least some maintenance included other than the grey mkt beasts):

VW Sciroccco around 2m

Hyundai Veloster around 1.74m

Benz A class 1.8m/2.5m

Benz CLA 2.65m

Volvo V40 1.6m

Honda CRZ 2m

Fiat Abarth grey market 2.4m

Audi A1 grey market (122HP) 2m

Audi A1 grey market (185HP) 2.7m

Mini Cooper S F56 new model (guess) 2.75-2.8m

Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ 2.65m

I heard it from a bloke at the pub so it must be true FrankP!

The evidence (inability of Thai Yarnyon to do anything on line, unable to import the golf VII, unable to do this and that) would strongly point to VW taking over and entering the market as the distributor in the near future, I am told that this was on the cards for 2 years already.

Frank will you take a look at the new Mini? personally I think the R53 culminating in the GP was the best of the new Minis, each new generation is a bit like the 240Z; it gets a little bit bigger, a little more powerful, and a little further away from the concept of the original (pocket rocket with a gokart feel to drive, and a little raw). The R56 and the newer GP from what I understand it is difficult to turn all the driver aids off unlike the original GP/JCWs. The F56thanks to sharing a parts bin with BMW has a bit of an awkward looking nose that a silicon implant nosed woman would love, but seems a bit on the big side for a Mini.Reviews coming back say is drives pretty well though - I suspect once the new 1 series comes out, that Thailand will be building the hatches here locally soon enough. Bet the price stays the same though!

I've decided to get a 2nd bigger car, already ordered, of the grandpa variety, and will keep the hot hatch for weekends and giggles....still enjoy the hot hatch for blatting around.

Supposedly VW will come into the market themselves leaving Thai Yarnyon as a dealer (rather than distributor which is why their inventory is running so low now) which might mean access to a few new toys in future.

I'm more inclined to look at 80-120 as in the real world not many people do 0-100 on a routine basis. Skoda is about 300,000 cheaper for those counting and sometimes one can get MTM treatment included.

Have a look at <siamnewcar.com>

I'm a bogan at heart, so almost every set of lights in BKK I am dragging from o up to however fast I can go including every entry onto the express way (4X per day), plus here the ability to crank on power to pass is quite important with the number of slow trucks on the roads here.

That said I agree, 80 - 120 is probably the better judge.

If the Skoda Fabia looked a little less grandpa like on the outside (I love the interior) I'd buy it in a heartbeat; love the car and it's got great performance with an MTM tune.

Skoda VRS is a VW Polo GTI and Audi A1, with a different badge; it goes pretty well, very good value for 1.4m IMHO.

Level of finishing in a Skoda is almost Audi quality, you can recognise a lot of the same switches and knobs.

Main cost is the depreciation when coming to sell a Skoda, they seem to depreciate pretty chronically, the Octavia for instance (Golf/A4/MQB platform from memory) is a huge car for the size, and goes pretty well.

It's a nice looking and handling car, if you like it, then you cannot go too wrong - it's well priced and should hold its value quite nicely for a BMW (BMWs tend to depreciate a little more heavily than Benz in the past, but maybe not at an entry level price point).

German Auto are my favourite BMW dealer, they are very good and rating consistently very highly for customer service.

I really do recommend though that you consider how many great roads there are for blatting around Pattaya; especially in the area around Horseshoe Point; having a 'fun' car to drive adds another element of enjoyment to cruising around; the BMW is excellent in every regard except that it is what I would personally consider to be a little on the underpowered side; however the handling should be good, and it's rare enough to be a nice little headturner as well.

With BSI (basically BMW handles all the costs of servicing other than tires and batteries (and possibly oil, that I don't remember) for the first 5 years/100,000km, it is not so costly to have a European car - this is something that Benz still doesn't match.

Not sure if you have seen the Volvo, handling is probably not quite as sharp as the BMW but for sure it's a lot more performance for the price. Resale will not be so great on the Volvo though.

http://www.volvocars.com/th/all-cars/volvo-v40/pages/default.aspx

There is also an SUV sort of version of the Volvo as well, which I have never seen; we see quite a few V40s around Bangkok now.

If you can, test drive the BMW and the Volvo, I would almost suggest you discard the Benz from a shortlist (the auto system in it is pretty frustrating) and if you want to consider an almost new car, then there are some good hard to find models to choose from, the difficulty in Pattaya will be servicing, so that would maybe steer you back to a BMW or a bigger brand rather than say a Fiat Abarth, Mini Cooper S or genuine hot hatch.

Maybe 0-100 is not the best judge but its an easy one to consider.

Mercedes A250 priced @ 2.49m (6.5sec) A180 priced similar to the BMW 116 1.9m (9sec?)

Skoda Fabia vRS 1.9m (7sec)

VW Golf GTI Mark 6 around 1.9-2m (old model) (7sec)

Volvo V40 1.69m (is a far quicker car than a BMW 116) (6.5sec)

VW Sciroco around 1.9-2m (pre facelift) (7 sec)

Mini Cooper S around 2.65m (new model just coming out) (6.5sec)

Mini Cooper (the equivalent to a 116) (new model jjust coming out) (9sec)

warm not hot

Audi A1 - grey only around 2m for the gutless equivalent to a 116 (9sec); 2.8m for the 185HP A1 (7sec)

Citroen DS3

Also worth considering

Fiat Abarth - 7.5sec - the 595 and the Ferrari 695 Tributo version is around 2.4m and has 185HP

From my conversation with BMW I understood (maybe incorrectly) that the 116 is imported completed, and was basically brought in to compete against the A class in the short term (especially the A180) also imported along with the CLA, with a longer term view to manufacture locally. Hence the reason for the sewing machine engine and attractive entry price. Now that BMW are building the Countryman/Paceman here locally which I think is sharing the X1 platform in some way, then at some point I presume they will add the 1 series onto that list but probably with the new model coming that is a front wheel drive shared between the Mini Cooper and the 1 series - again, not sure they will build here or not yet (Mini Hatch maybe, I think they are testing to see if people flip out finding out the Countryman/Paceman Mini SUVs are being built outside England at this point).

I love how the BMW 1 series looks; it's a lovely low slung car and I had the predecessor 118i a few years ago. However, the 116 is going to be more than a little underpowered - most of the 'hot' hatches on the list above will stomp all over it in speed, and handling BMW are good, but not likely that much better than most of the above when they are underpowered); there is supposedly a way to up the power using an ECU tune (I believe the 118 engine is also the same with a different tune called an N13/N18 which I think is much the same engine in the just disappearing R56 Mini Cooper S and the 114,116 and 118 BMWs but with slightly different tunes) but of course that voids the warranty; AC Schnitzer or Hertze or that type of firm have software modifications that can do it.

Note that the normal way to crank up power with these sorts of engines is pretty basic - change the air intake, the exhaust, ECU tune. However, BMW ECUs are a bit more 'locked' than some other brands - VW for instance it is dead simple to just go to APR/MTM or similar, and modify the software and go from 205HP to 240HP in about 30 minutes, with a clear series of options that can get you to 300HP++ if you wish. I believe AC Schnitzer Thailand may refuse to do similarly for some odd reason but if they did, this is how you would do it:

http://www.ac-schnitzer.co.uk/1series.htm

Problem is the fuel quality; we don't have high octane fuel here, so the APR and VW tunes know this, I am not sure the Euro tuner industry is quite so familiar or big here.

try German Auto in Bangna; from what I understand rated the best of the Thai dealers for BMW in terms of customer satisfaction. I'm a fan.

I've used Millenium before; ok, neither good nor bad.

If I could offer one small piece of advice, try to understand the tones not from a point of how they sound but how your mouth and neck changes to achieve them.

Find someone who knows how to speak Thai correctly. Listen to them do all 5 tones, then repeat after them. Run through the tones tons of times with various consonants, with someone correcting them if you get it wrong, and think carefully as you go, where does the sound originate from, what happens to make it rise, what happens to make it fall. So you then have clear positions for mid low falling high rising.

Low = sound comes low in the throat (wide fully open)

Mid = sound comes middle of the throat (mostly open)

High = sound comes from top of throat (and closing it off slightly)

rising - starts low goes to high position

falling - starting high position goes to low

try to forget adding in emotion into the tones as you would in English, with excitement, questions, lists etc - just get the exact tone sound for that syllable ONLY.

Then start reading Thai and knowing which tone goes with which word - soon enough its like riding a bike :_)

This way, even though you may not have a great set of ears, you know exactly which tone you are trying to achieve, and you can speak without hearing yourself because you have focused on the mechanics of getting it right (rather than just the sound coming out).

This is also really useful also for ป and ต both sounds which do not exist in English, and is rare to hear a foreigner get right consistently; if you know the mechanics of forming those sounds as opposed to บ and ด then you are well on your way to getting the words coming out correctly.

Thanks to steveromagnino for a most complete summary answer to my original question.

> the Toyota 2KD-FTV series at the top, followed by the Isuzu 4KJ1 series, then almost a tie on the Toyota 1KD-FTV and Isuzu 4JJ1 in 3rd/4th, with 5th going to the Toyota 1NZ-FE and 6th to the Honda L15A series. The rest are small fry compared to these.

And especially for this - hadn't expected to get so down and technical, but v useful.

my pleasure.

A few of the posts in this thread with claims of what people drive/don't drive/use as taxis certainly reinforces that "better to stay silent and have people suspect you are a moron, than post online, and confirm it" :-)

And now let me confirm it for myself 55555555

Regarding 'taxi mafia' I do not know who this refers to, but taxis are mostly either owner driven or part of a taxi company's pool and rented out by day/12 hour shift. All taxis have a minimum standard 1600CC/not more than 11 years (might be 13 years) old 4 door, and since the fees are fixed, there is an incentive to use gas with a 1600CC engine (a few of the Thairung SUVs are part of some dodgy govt subsidised deal done in the past).

The taxi regulations are set to favour Toyota, it is no surprise that, if you doubt this, the private vans have a choice of Toyota....or Toyota pretty much to run those private bus vans - Mingkwan went from Toyota into the PPP/PT government - there is a lot of collusion not maybe directly due to Toyota themselves, but the suppliers of Toyota, plus they are the biggest car brand here by quite a bit so they get what they want (Honda don't do pick ups, Isuzu doesn't really do cars, only Toyota does both properly).

Obviously, owner drivers pick whatever car they want which fits the criteria, but pool operators like Suvaranbhumi Taxi (the green ones) tend to choose a car which has a cheap base model, fleet discount (not much of a discount but often good financing), reliability, cheap replacement parts, robust interior, suitable to fit gas tank, generally manual (more reliable), decent size, reasonable resale at high miles - this almost always means a Toyota. There is nothing stopping someone from using a Honda Civic, a CRV, etc etc as a taxi - however the economics of the tiny margins and need to fit gas plus sizing etc (and fact that seats etc are all so easily available for the Altis) makes the Toyota the 'safe choice' - also because they have their own mechanics (often) it's easier if all the cars use the same spark plugs, exhausts, locks etc etc so you can keep as many cars on the road at all times as possible.

Sometimes you see a few of the owner drivers choosing something else, sometimes Nissan, Mitsu, etc and these are the ones you are more likely to see being autos. I believe Honda do not really offer good fleet discounts compared to Toyota, but this is only based on what Taxi pool operators have told me in the past.

Bear in mind a taxi does over 100,000km per year, so by year 7/8/9 it is often pushing almost 1m kms; Toyotas have a proven reputation for being able to reach this and keep going mechanically; if you were to start driving a less well known brand e.g. Hyundai or Puegeot - price upfront isn't so different but who knows how much it will cost in maintenance to reach 1m kms. Incidentally, this is a good reason not to ride around in older cabs.

As I already pointed out, 10,000cars a year MAX are going into the taxi industry in Bangkok, that ain't the major driving factor for car sales (which are 1m+ vehicles a year).