steveromagnino

So if you can't beat them legally in an election, trump up charges and run them out of office if not the country.

She may have been a supporter of this stupid rice pledging, but I seriously doubt (with everyone looking) she had her hand in the cookie jar. As someone else said, this is just a judicial "coup".

She's being charged with negligence as chairwoman of the committee, today there was a report up to 4.5 m tonnes of rice is missing from the warehouses.

Even a child can guess how these G2G deals go down.

Let's assume a hypothetical situation....this isn't possibly real.

- Rice growers sell rice at 15,000b - politicians makes sure middle men don't pay the farmers 15,000, they pocket 20% and share 3,000; farmers get around 12,000

- Mills and storage facilities belonging to the politicians charge rental for the space and control access

- govt does a deal with a "G2G" which is some sort of shell Chinese company, belonging to politicians, but due to "G2G" deal is kept secret

- shell company pays for xxx tons at a 'reasonable' on paper price (a loss making deal for the Thai govt, no one is paying the breakeven price not even the Thai consumers via the local rice industry who are paying 30% below cost)

- storage and warehouse accidentally deliver about 20% more than what was agreed/higher grade than agreed

- the actual rice goes to China and is sold at a profit with that cash exiting the Thai economy (as it now belongs to the Chinese shell company)

- the accidental additional amount delivered is then returned back to the mill as pledged rice, and paid out again this time the full 12,000 (3,000 left to the interested inside parties to keep them happy)

- repeat as needed

- end result: rice stocks are lower than they should be; premium rice all gone, all the low grade rice is what is left over - books don't add up to reality

Right now the amount of rice that should be in storage according to the govt is 10m tons (based on sales of 8.5m in 2013). Actual sales in 2013 were more like 6.5m, so the real number using THEIR calculation should be 12m tons in storage. Other critics claim it should be as high as 17m tons, because the govt have been misrepresenting the sales for 2 years now. Amount appearing in physical stock is more like (let's assume) 10m, maybe less. but since they have pledged 27m tons in 2 years approx., and they have sold about 12m, you'd guess it should be closer to 14-20m tons. So for 4.5m tons to be missing, that's around 20-25%!! Well, the people skimming are nothing if not consistent, people did not call the old TRT govt the 40% partner for nothing. Once we factor in the reality that the rice left is ultra lousy grade, then we should be back to where we think it should be - 40% of the scheme money/assets are missing.

now the only issue is how much less is it actually? Every ton less is a ton that someone took and sold, effectively stealing money out of the pockets of Thailand. in the end it really doesn't matter, as what is left, is probably the unselleable dregs; the people doing the steps above were not taking the old horrid rice, they took the best new rice.

Like I have said before, this is Enron/WorldCom all over again. However, we saw it was Enron/WorldCom from the start of the scheme, it was only the govt who were unwilling to admit it, I guess because they were the ones running the scam.

It will be interesting to see how creative NACC can be to find the administration guilty of any corruption when 1) almost no rice has been sold, and 2) the government has no funds to pay for for the unsold rice. Just exactly where does the corruption aspect come in? China cancels a large order because of Suthep's prolonged protests, the government has no ability to finance rice purchases because of lack of authority under interim goverance, and has offred farmers to take back their rice to sell it for themselves. What proceeds that have been received largely (70%) benefit the high and middle income class farmers. It seems what people are calling "corruption" is that the rice program failed in its objectives. How is that criminal?

The PTP commerce minister stated "China cancelled an order for 1.2 million tonnes of rice due to a corruption probe" China stated they cancelled an order for 1.2 million tones due to a corruption probe. You state it is because of Suthep.

​So with this trend of blatant lying and making up the truth I don't really need to spend any energy on your other swell little stories then.

Actually, the only people who have been saying China would buy rice are the Thai government - everyone else thinks and thought the deal never existed. Any cancellation announcement has only come from the Thai govt also - in fact at no point has there ever been an announcement of a true G2G deal to China, it has been always revealed to be deals to holding companies of unknown origin located in China (and a cynic might guess possibly belonging to the former PM or associated parties). At no point have the Chinese confirmed their orders or have we ever seen proof of any written deals that were announced as 'done deals'.

order for rice was originally supposed to have generated cash in December according to the same Minister and was part of a 3 million ton order:

They originally stated in 2013:

"This is the third contract with China this year. The first was signed by the Thai Rice Exporters Association and China's state-owned Cofco (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation) for 1 million tonnes over five years. The next contract was a G2G deal between the Foreign Trade Department and Cofco, also for 1 million tonnes over five years."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_211113-1.html

In late December the govt claims of sales achieved were dismissed as nonsense by the rice industry

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

now working backwards let's bear in mind the scheme was in free fall back in NOVEMBER when non pledged rice was already close to worthless as farmers realised they govt wasn't able to pay them (and also due to the new restrictions on amounts that could be pledged)

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_111113-1.html

Even though the govt was already claiming they had sold 150,000 tons to China (delivery within the next 3 months) and that the farmers were going to paid THIS WEEK (in mid Nov) at which time the govt did not even consider to secure budget to finance it (which they could have done pre snap election easily)

"Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Bunsongphaisan said the committee has not felt it urgent to call a new meeting.

He insists the scheme's liquidity remains strong and is sufficient to pay participating farmers this week."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_181113-1.html

yet just a month earlier in October the scheme was supposedly going to run within a budget of only 400b baht (BEFORE the Chinese sale was even announced) and any losses around the 200b baht per year were outright rejected as 'rubbish' - so a budget of 500b must have been FAR MORE than was ever required....before the 150,000 tons of extra rice was sold to China (which has disappeared), or the 1.2m tons....or the local firesales.

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_011013-1.html

now perhaps running a program on lies and deception is acceptable in some countries, but when you fail to pay out money owed to your own people solely due to those lies while using the money and rice for something else which has yet to be disclosed (the numbers do not add up to anyone)....I would describe that as an ongoing program of deception with an intent to misrepresent and misuse govt money i.e. corruption.

If nothing else, losing 700b baht of our money (not the Shinawatra's money, OUR taxpayer money) deserves an investigation to see if there was corruption or not. Making people work for 2 years for zero output (which is what the rice farmers have effectively done now) is heart breaking. We were owed a duty of care.

Somewhere in another thread (if someone can be bothered finding it) I laid out how some of this unfolded (I was asked to do this for work and ended up finding some english links and posting some of it online here in TV).

Who cares what the price of rice is to international consumers!

We are obligated to make sure our farmers at making a decent living off of growing rice or continued numbers will quit rice farming!

"Destroy the rice they must be kidding" The government should lower the rice stockpiles by distributing it to those Thai's most affected by the loss of the value of the baht, as food to its population and food for its livestock.

Implement direct government to government sales and cut out the elites "middle man" that is driving force behind the raise in the price of Thai rice.

Our family last month was paid 11,000 baht a ton for rice that the present international price is 13,000 baht per ton, "Who has driven the price increase, not the farmers".

Distribute the rice to Thailand's people cut out the middle man, government to government sales!

Just to be clear, I am not sure what law 'obligates' us to do anything - why should the majority of the country be forced to bail out around 3-4 million rice farmers? the best solution is longterm if more rice farmers DO continue to quit rice farming, leaving farms of decent scale for those who remain. Shortterm, obviously, the farmers who entered into a contract with the govt (via pledging) should be paid or should have their rice returned - this is impossible solely because the govt refused to finance the scheme properly and refuses to return the rice (more on that in a minute).

As you well know, real G2G sales don't exist, as I already explained to you multiple times; they have resulted in selling to agents/companies representing various companies, and invariably have achieved a lower price (which is why they cannot disclose details of any of the deals) than if the free market was used. Its a scam with secrecy of 'G2G' - a term used to describe the deals where PT have sold rice to themselves at discount prices, which they then onsell themselves at a profit. Easy money. And none of it paid for by the farmers, it's paid by the taxpayers of Thailand of which farmers are a miniscule proportion.

There is a reason why the economies in USA, Europe, et al use a free market to sell loads of products; it is more efficient than having an organisation (the Thai govt) with no knowledge of the rice industry attempting to act as both sole buyer, and seller, with OUR money. The head of the organisation (the PM) has not even attended meetings about it for goodness sake! How important do you think this is for her? Its not even as important as travelling all around the world promoting herself!

We know a proportion of the rice is missing; a proportion never existed; a proportion is rotten; a proportion is not even Thai rice....your idea to return the rice (which is what some of the farmers want) on some levels would make sense except that there likely isn't enough rice to even return to the farmers who pledged without the entire scheme's true scams being revealed - and for the architects of the scheme, this is not about looking after farmers, it is about concealing the corruption inherent in the scheme and the losses.

The govt will never sell it all without totally destroying the reputation and prices of Thai rice, we would be better to immediately end the scheme and write off 700b baht (or more). But that ending of the scheme would also end this govt and the amnesty opportunity for Thaksin.

Bear in mind the scheme has NEVER delivered the price and deal offered in the manifesto of PT in 2011 on which they were elected; thanks to a skewed media and the power of the party machine, farmers have repeatedly accepted the gradual removal of all aspects of the scheme - just like first car, tablet PC, reconciliation, minimum wage, flood prevention and EVERY other policy of PT - they are the most hopeless govt I think Thailand has had since Chavalit.

So why do PT dig their heels in, despite advice from every informed and logical party many of whom want the best for rice farmers - the scheme is absolute idiocy. It's because their end game is focused on amnesty; that this was for them MORE important than financing rice pledging to them is a matter of public record - they had all the time in the world to push through that amnesty bill with changes at the last minute..they had all the time in the world for 2 trillion baht transport scheme with no scope...but strangely didn't even have 5 minutes to secure accurate data for rice pledging + budget to support it.

I urge you to read what people have written to reply to you multiple times in other threads, I honestly cannot decide whether you are simply trolling for replies.

IMO, there is no proof that the government betrayed the faith and trust of the voters and decided to do whatever it like. It is more a perception from distortion, misinformation and smear campaigns.

I am getting a little political here. I don't see the oppositions coming out with any alternative or policies and willing to articulate them during an election.

Example 1 - lying about the amnesty bill:

Nov 2011 -PM Affirms Thaksin Not Named for Amnesty nov 2011 (Tan network ref. Thaivisa)

The prime minister insists that her brother's name was not included in the government's amnesty decree that has been presented for royal endorsement.

Chalerm also insisted that the royal decree is not aimed to help former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Oct 2013 - PM suddenly changes the bill at the last minute and rams it through using a parliamentary majority, deceiving both her supporters and her opponents (source BBC)

Thailand's lower house of parliament has passed a political amnesty bill that critics say could allow the return of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

The amnesty applies to offences committed during the political turmoil after Mr Thaksin was ousted in a coup.

"The proposed amnesty would allow officials and protest leaders who have blood on their hands to go unpunished," said Brad Adams, Asia director of Human Rights Watch, on 21 October.

Thaksin Shinawatra has lived in self-imposed overseas exile since being convicted of corruption in 2008, charges he says are politically motivated.

The amnesty - initially limited to ordinary protesters charged over involvement in past street clashes - was suddenly expanded two weeks ago to include anyone investigated by agencies set up after the 2006 coup.

It was as a result of one of those investigations that Mr Thaksin was jailed, our correspondent reports.

31 Oct 2013 - Yingluck avoids the amnesty bill debate by claiming a cabinet meeting to attend

BANGKOK, Oct 31 Thailands parliamentary debate on the controversial Amnesty Bill kicked off today without the presence of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who asked to be absent to attend the Cabinet meeting upcountry.

Under tight security, the session was to deliberate the bill in its second and third readings after it was passed by the House scrutiny committee.

Jurin Laksanavisit, Democrat MP and opposition whip, opened the floor with a question on Ms Yinglucks non-appearance and Parliaments failure to broadcast the debate on state-owned television Channel 11.

House speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont said Ms Yingluck has submitted a letter stating her need to be away to attend the weekly Cabinet meeting, this week taking place in Lopburi

[note opposition were severely restricted by the speaker of the house from speaking out at all, and basically were unable to debate the bill - the PM didn't even bother to attend]

Example 2: lying about rice pledging

Example 3: lying about tablets specs

Example 4: lying about first job income levels

Example 5: preventing public participation in the flood management plan

Example 6: refusal to allow any details on the high speed rail scheme even though it commits Thailand to 50 years of repayments with no business case outlined

Example 7: white lies about GDP performance by the DPM/finance minister

Example 8: ongoing refusal to admit why the PM doesn't ever seem to turn up for work

Example 9: lying about vote rigging in the house (people voting on other people's behalf)

Example 10: lying about the involvement of Thaksin in running the country

etc etc

It's not a smear campaign, it's simply an arrogant attitude that 'we got a majority so we don't have to say anything to you 'rubbish protesters' (words used by the govt to describe anyone that doesn't agree with the flood management scheme of Plodprasob) which results in people not trusting anything they say. PT are not alone in generating mistrust; the Dems and BJT suffer from it just as much - the main difference is with a mandate of the majority, instead of being inclusive, PT are arrogant to think they can do whatever they want - in this regard they do not understand democracy at all.

As for why opposition don't call them out on it, well other than the censure motion, now there is no opposition, in fact I have no idea what any of the parties stood for in the Feb 2 election including PT. Well other than Chuwit :-) he stands for being the "chuck Norris" of Thai politics.

The Dems systems is better.

No false registration of farmers, no led to exaggerated number of registered farmers.

Just hand over payment without seeing the physical rice.

No the Democrat system was not better. That is the hole point. The Democrat's poured in money to no effect because the farmers that were poor remained poor.

Personally I am distressed that the Rice Pledging scheme is in difficulties because if it succeeds it will rip the heart out of corruption in Thailand.

So to summarise, you believe that whereas price floor guarantee failed because it did not turn poor farmers into anything other than poor farmers, that rice pledging has the ability to do what? To turn poor farmers into rich farmers? After the first year, after 2 years, this has been the case or not?

I would have thought any scheme of this nature - poor farmers will still be poor farmers - it's just a matter of degrees - whether they are in poverty (or not). The best way to turn poor farmers into richer farmers is pretty simple - reduce the number of farmers, and shift a bunch of them to do something else more constructive.

No amount of change and reduction of corruption will ever make a 20 rai land owning farmer anything other than a 'poor farmer'. it's like expecting to get rich, earning 10b an hour. It cannot happen. Increase pay to 15b an hour, you will still never become a billionaire. Ever.

You claim that rice pledging has the ability to rip the heart of corruption out of Thailand and solve poverty. Please provide evidence how exactly this would occur 'in an ideal world' because no one, least of all the government, has ever provided any evidence that the scheme is anything other than a massive money pit, where no one knows the true cost, sales are falsified, rice is smuggled in, farmers aren't paid what they were promised, the main beneficiaries are not the farmers and the farmers remain much the same now as they were before the scheme began even when they were still getting paid with costs escalating at the same right as the pledge prices.

I look forward to learning something new, as people like the IMF, World Bank and most academics in Thailand such as NESDB, TDRI etc are all stating the opposite to what you are.

Ok, PRBKK, read this as it will surly answer your question IMHO the best post i have read on this subject

Thanks for the kind words, Chupup. Needless to say, I am not enamoured with the scheme :-)

The degree of lies relating to this program is simply unreal; that there is no real oversight and total denial of the problems is exactly why PT have ended up with the current situation - note they could have raised funds easily - instead they spent their time (when they knew they would run out of cash in Oct) misrepresenting the impact of G2G and pretending it would all be ok; I can only guess so that things would seem good and they could force through the amnesty bill while avoiding the censure debate in Nov.

In other words, I would imagine they believed the freedom of 1 man ranked higher than the welfare of millions of rice farmers.

They chose to conceal the lies about the scheme in the censure debate against them in late November, although it did emerge that Yingluck had 'never attended' meetings relating to rice policy, even as the chairwoman of the policy committee.

They were then given the opportunity to raise funds since Nov (when they started defaulting) but since they were bound by their own lies, I honestly think they forgot how important it would be to secure the budget before calling a snap election. They then tried to pressure the EC to rule on it, which failed since the EC has no ability to provide budget for it and most people saw through the cynical scheme. By this time, they left it so late, it was difficult to use their normal method of Enron style off balance sheet style financing from KTB/BAAC etc. EC told them they could still go ahead and pay for it...but it was on them.

They chose, once again, to look after themselves rather than their farmer voting base.

It is hard to imagine a more idiotic way to run a country and waste 700 billion baht. To put in perspective, there are approximately 7m tax payers in Thailand, each is paying into this scheme on average approximately 100,000b, which is then mostly going to govt parties, and a few crumbs to the farmers*.

Nice work if you are on the govt side, pretty lame if you are a farmer, and absolutely awful if you are the one paying for it.

* I ain't an accountant, so me numbers might be wrong. Maybe I can be Finance Minister. I am also good at not turning up to work, and I like flying around the world. Maybe I can be Prime Minista.

You are entitled to your opinion. My focus is on solution on the challenges of the rice pledging scheme - not the problems.

This rice scheme is not a handout, subsidy. It is an investment on the total economy and food security (National security) of Thailand.

It is exactly a hand out. It is a handout solely for some rice farmers, no one else, who are paid to grow something that is then stored and not sold until it is worthless. There are huge side benefits to other related parties. It is not an investment, any more than me dropping money on prostitutes and booze is 'an investment'. If you do not understand how economics of this scheme works, I suggest learning about the 'broken window' parable in economics - superficially a thief breaking a window generates economic growth - work for the glazier, work for the glass factory etc. but in reality, money spent on fixing the window has an opportunity cost, denying some other activity for which the money should have been used but wasn't (e.g. the shop investing in more inventory/staff,etc).

In no way does rice pledging provide any form of food security (you have mentioned this several times) - food security is provided through control of inventory, a budget set aside for the free market to purchase and operate efficiently, and ongoing improvements in yields, restrictions on exports. This scheme does none of those things, it removes diversity in crops by area, and can only be described as a drain on the national economy. In fact, the ongoing rumours of rotting rice in our food supply and complaints on rice quality indicate that if anything, this scheme is undoing food security.

Furthermore, the govt is the least able to market and sell rice - govts are usually the most useless at any given task; they are destroying the rice industry because they are setting themselves up as the sole buyer of all rice, only possible because they have us (the taxpayers) being forced to pay for it.

A better scheme would be to have a crop subsidy with a price floor for multiple crops, coupled with a direct payment to specific families for reducing their input costs slightly; protecting farmers in all industries from the impact of the open market, giving them security and providing the most needy with help. We had this scheme before. It is relatively cheap, it is far easier to administrate, and less open to corruption. It also does not give rice farmers a 'free lunch' nor does it mean they are stuck as they are now, with no money and no rice having paid all the costs.

The reality, is long term the ongoing shift of farmers out of the fields and continuing to employ more Thais in factories/services rather than subsistence farming is also how Thailand will escape the middle income trap.

Fiscal responsibility dictates that rule by the majority should be restricted to doing things in the public interest i.e. just because I was elected by popular mandate as PM I should not be allowed to hold bunga bunga parties and do whatever I want "just because I was voted in with a majority" - there must be oversight either before, during and/or after. The same applies for policy - if the policy is idiotic, it should be not an option for a govt to undertake without consequence.

The 2 things are completely separate, one the rice pledging ( I don't support, never have), two, the commercial transaction to sell rice to China. Any sane person would support that...it gets the farmers paid and reduces the mountain, albeit at a loss. That transaction has been derailed by Suthep . Tragic for everyone, especially the farmers. I'm not surprised the Chinese got cold feet...but there is no reason why the sale should not proceed. In fact, it's in everyone's best interests that it does so ( apart from a few obsessions who see something corrupt in a straightforward, transparent transaction). Mystifying

The transaction was not derailed by Suthep, it never appeared to exist as any more than a verbal vague commitment with no pricing or details agreed. Maybe that is a straightforward transparent transaction to some, but it certainly isn't to me (one of the many people paying for this scheme). How Suthep could derail it as a protester I have no idea; the PM or government officials or the Chinese could derail it - what power does Suthep have??? Zero other than the power to show corruption!

Like most of the other G2G deals, it never was real, it is fairytales and handbags.

This was the original claim - 1million tons starting with 500,000 tons in Dec to the Chinese - we should have seen deliveries already made and cash in:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/china-agrees-buy-1-million-tonnes-rice-one-year/

echoed by the PM in Oct - note it was only said by Thai side, never said by Chinese side AFAIK

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/10/thai-pm-says-rice-deal-secured-with-china-20131013145918839617.html

Now the scheme is 'cancelled' again only according to the Thai side, never by the Chinese side AFAIK, and the sale was supposedly to an unnamed state enterprise in Harbin; note from other sources we know that the same govt spokesperson had no problem stating the name of another company interested to purchase 1m tons of rice in China (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation, a Chinese state-owned food conglomerate) but refused to give the details of the company who actually supposedly signed the contract no one has ever seen for 1.2m tons (different details than what was previously stated by the spokesperson and the PM in the past also). Deliveries in December vanished without a trace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26028335

Now when we bear in mind the Thai govt (i.e. PT via the commerce ministry) claimed they would sell 8.5m tons for 2013 in Nov worth approx. 183 billion baht with 7m tons via G2G deals

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_281113-1.html

Then in Dec admitted the real number was likely to be more like 6.7m tons in Dec (1 month later) worth around 125 billion only for 2013 including G2G of 4.7m but even then the rice exporters themselves dispute this number claiming the G2G deals are lower than what the govt is claiming

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

And what is interesting, is who actually buys Thai rice, coincidentally no China here in the past so it really would be a major win if Thailand had managed to sell rice to China this time around: "Thailands top five rice importers include Benin, Iraq, South Africa, the U.S. and Ivory Coast."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

We know what Thailand has been selling rice for: Thailand has sold 5%-white rice at 450 U.S. dollars/ton or approx. 13,500b per ton (supposedly) and apparently even trying to sell 5% at $420 USD (around 13,000b per ton) they cannot find customers in the private sector, so there has to be some seriously odd things going on if a foreign state wants to pay more for no reason (they could just buy from the private sector at a lower price rather than the G2G price) - hence the likely corruption on both sides of the transaction hidden by claims of 'security secrecy':

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_171213-2.html

Now there are claims of other deals, like to Indonesia and Iran, but these are for hundreds of thousands of tons, which are way, way less than the sorts of numbers we need to raise funds

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

The current stockpile, depending who you listen to is somewhere between 10m tons, and 16 and 17m tons (16m in this article).

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

Note that 1 million tons of rice would generate around 15 billion baht in a best case scenario (more likely they would be getting a price of around 13 billion at the most less delivery costs etc; as the scheme is short around 200 billion baht at last estimate and they need an instant 50 -77 - 130 billion baht to pay the farmers now (depending who you listen to), the numbers don't even come close to adding up - it is a drop in the bucket compared to the actual loss - we need to do another 3-9 deals of the same size immediately just to raise the cash needed. As we do not have the rice on hand (the government claims to have stockpiles but no one knows the quality or size of the stockpiles, and it's likely a bunch of rice is missing gone forever/never existed).

BTW Thailand imports some rice and exports Thai rice - Thai rice used to be world renowned for fragrance, quality and good pricing - at the right price why not sell abroad to other countries who grow rice - no issue. But the problem is trying to corner the market when you are not in an oligopoly situation; Mingkwan tried it in 2007 and it was a disaster...only PT would be so unwise to try the same thing again expecting a different outcome, but I guess its easy when they are only spending our money, not their own.

As I said, if Thaksin wants to support Thai rice farmers only (note there is no similar scheme for other crops) because they think the market price will rise, then the Shinawatras are rich enough to buy the rice for export themselves at the pledge price of 15,000, and they are welcome to the profits stemming from such a venture. No problem.

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

The spin meister is back ...surely not even you could blame YL for this. Blame here is squarely with Suthep. No other explanation warrants consideration.

As the head of the committee, surely it is the PM's job to ensure that the policies they were elected on, and promised to do, would be completed?????? To do this, requires committing the correct budget, and carrying out oversight of each policy for implementation.

Surely it is her job to try to do HER JOB?

The rice pledging scheme is dead simple why it has failed - It was set up based on the concept of being fairly self funding with a 'float' needed from memory 500b baht. However, the reality vs. the estimates of how much it cost massively underestimated the true cost, in an ENRON/WorldCom style way of recognising sales that didn't exist.

Rest assured the G2G sales and their confidentiality are there for one thing only - to cover the truth of how much every sale is wasting tax payer month. If anyone was stupid enough to buy at 17,000b per ton the govt would be sure to be crowing how they achieved the sale. The refusal of the government to investigate and check or audit and their 'shoot the messenger' approach to handling any criticism coupled with outright lying about sales which don't exist, are why the entire scheme is bankrupt. Which even until today is denied by the government, who still claim to the farmers that payouts are not being made due to the protesters - the amnesty bill for her brother and the trillion baht transport bill were considered important; securing funding for the rice pledging scheme was not. Ensuring tablets that actually worked or making sure first car buyers were paid was not.

There is no easy legal solution until we have a proper government to pass a new act to create a source of funding which can support the scheme, and insiders have clearly stated that no one has any idea exactly how much this scheme will lose.

The easy solution is that the government should only pay for domestic rice consumption, and for all exported rice the Shinawatras should offer to purchase the entire rice stockpile at 100% of the pledged price of approx. 12,000b (which was never achieving 15,000b, as there has been corruption at every step of this idiotic policy) since THEY are the ones who think it's a good idea - let the SHINAWATRAS enjoy the upside of buying at 50% above market rates if THEY think its a good plan for export.

The reality is the refusal to disclose prices and to admit any issues in the scheme is tantamount to condoning the corruption in the scheme - we know why because the government senior MPs and backers are the most likely to have their hands in the till. A LEADER must take responsibility for their decisions, their mistakes. Failure of the rice pledging scheme rests SOLELY with Yingluck and her government's decision to call a snap election without ensuring funding was in place - instead her government continued to lie about sales that didn't exist.

Target the wrong doers and the saboteurs rather than the rice pledging scheme.

This scheme has all the hallmarks of a stitch up.

That was precisely my opinion. Read my comment and ask how much you understand the rice pledging scheme -its purpose and what role you can play to make it successful not just for the farmers but also for food security related issues and related industries.

The problem is the entire scheme itself is a stitch up; it was set up based on the concept of being fairly self funding with a 'float' needed from memory 500b baht. However, the reality vs. the estimates of how much it cost massively underestimated the true cost, in an ENRON/WorldCom style way of recognising sales that didn't exist.

Rest assured the G2G sales and their confidentiality are there for one thing only - to cover the truth of how much every sale is wasting tax payer month. If anyone was stupid enough to buy at 17,000b per ton the govt would be sure to be crowing how they achieved the sale. The refusal of the government to investigate and check or audit and their 'shoot the messenger' approach to handling any criticism coupled with outright lying about sales which don't exist, are why the entire scheme is bankrupt. Which even until today is denied by the government, who still claim to the farmers that payouts are not being made due to the protesters.

There is no easy legal solution until we have a proper government to pass a new act to create a source of funding which can support the scheme, and insiders have clearly stated that no one has any idea exactly how much this scheme will lose. No civil servant is willing to support the scheme when its likely to collapse; even the Chinese are making it clear they want no part of this scheme (perhaps because the reality of what they paid and how much was delivered will show up corruption on both sides).

The easy solution is that the government should only pay for domestic rice consumption, and for all exported rice the Shinawatras should offer to purchase the entire rice stockpile at 100% of the pledged price of approx. 12,000b (which was never achieving 15,000b, as there has been corruption at every step of this idiotic policy) since THEY are the ones who think it's a good idea - it has nothing to do with food security, they said it would increase the average price per ton to be self sustaining, so let them take the risk of this occurring (or not) by running their own rice cartel with THEIR money, not ours - we only need rice for domestic purposes, let the SHINAWATRAS enjoy the upside of buying at 50% above market rates if THEY think its a good plan for export.

The reality is the refusal to disclose prices and to admit any issues in the scheme is tantamount to condoning the corruption in the scheme - we know why because the government senior MPs and backers are the most likely to have their hands in the till.

The main issue is that the govt refuses to accept that there is anything wrong with the scheme - to admit that would then lead to revealing who has their hands in the till.

As I posted elsewhere:

The farmers have paid all their costs (seed, harvesting, fertiliser etc etc). They are the ones who are stuck here because they haven't been paid.

The farmers who did not sell it to the govt have been forced to sell it to the highest bidders, who are offering about 5,500b from memory; something like 30% lower than the market price simply because the farmers have basically no choice, so in fact the farmers are either stuck owed money by the govt who may never pay them, or if they still have some rice on hand, stuck selling at a loss on the open market which has been massively damaged by the price distortions of the pledging scheme so are being screwed.

Also, there are some questions as to whether the rice actually can even be returned (some sources inside the scheme believe that the same single sack of rice has been used more than once for pledging - it was transferred to someone else who then also pledged the same physical rice - which means that even were they to try to return the rice, there might be 2-3 owners of each ton of rice pledged - the real one plus a few fake ones created by sources close to the government - and it will be nearly impossible to determine who actually owns the rice without also revealing the corruption in the scheme).

This is why the price floor system of the Dems was so much healthier and sustainable. For PT to stop this scheme would require they implement the Dems scheme instead - political suicide.

Rice pledging was never a crop subsidy with a budget for subsidies as occurs elsewhere in the world, it is a monopsony with the govt buying all the rice at an inflated price with an aim to sell it at an inflated price which is obviously never going to happen.

So what happens is the govt have alledgedly done fake deals and lied about it, or have done deals but the aren't as they appear (where they sell 10,000 tons on paper but 'accidentally' deliver 25,000 tons thus ensuring the rice traders will pay the higher price per ton and it all looks ok on paper). The problem is that the budget constraint for funding the scheme is capped at a level too low to run the scheme longterm as it's like a Ponzi scheme as the few deals done are in reality for more rice than what the contract says, so the rice stockpile is slowly less and less than what it should be on paper. In addition, you have pledging of the rice more than once that actually doesn't exist at all. You have far rice pledged from Burma/Laos/Cambodia, and crop yields higher than planned. So any physical investigation will reveal the true losses - which is why the govt has been so strongly against anyone actually investigating the scheme.

So now it's run out of money, the govt could either be honest and admit that there are no real deals, or reveal the actual corruption in the scheme, to increase the budget to fund it - until now the government has mostly tried to lie its way out (that there are deals, that the scheme is solvent) but they cannot fake the actual money needed to pay out. So hence they have blamed it all on the protests. Even now we see more lies about deals about to happen.

It is also their fault that they had all the time in the world to secure financing for high speed rail and trying to push the amnesty, but did not consider it important to secure budget or tell the truth on the rice pledging scheme - civil servants have no power to allocate money for this, and having told anyone that speaks out against the scheme that they are idiots, can u expect any civil servant to lay their careers on the line for this when the architects of the scheme choose to do nothing and blame the civil service?