mittheimp

South Korea and Japan ahead of Thailand on this list? That does surprise me tbh.

Same here. I do about four business trips to Seoul every year. I am constantly frustrated by the lack of English skills there, and I am not just talking about taxi drivers and soup shop operators. I have been to some fairly substantial offices in Seoul where the receptionist could understand spoken English. At meetings, one must always have a translator as more than half of the attendees, regardless of education, understand little to no English.

I am not sure how this "study" ranked various countries, but from a practical experience, Thailand has far better day to day English skills than Korea.

Have to agree, I have exactly the same experience on business trips to Korea.

having lived in both Thailand and Korea, it doesnt suprise me at all. There is a massive generational diffetence in Korea, but most under 30 can speak English to some degree. Although nothing like as good as the money and time spent on learning the language. Koreans spend more of both learning English than anywhere else.

A lot of my friends who have only visited Thailand on holiday claim Thailand is much better, but of course in tourist areas it will always be good.... i do kind of admore Thailand for not being obsessed with English, in Korea i feel they have lost a sense of proportion over how important it is.

someone said Tuk Tuk.. this seems an interesting one. Is it a thai word originally (cheap cheap???).. if so it seems to be universally used to describe that kind of vehicle.

kluawy and su???????????????????

been a few years since spoke / read thai!

been just once for a weekend, the resort was called vivaldi park. Im not a particularly experienced skiier but this place wouldnt hold your interest more than just for a couple of days - prices are fairly cheap, but i wouldnt go out your way for skiing in Korea .. its good if you live here , but to make a special trip, in my limited experience id advise against.

One of the guys here went to Vivaldi park last weekend. He is an experienced skier and he was less than impressed, more time queuing than skiing was the impression I got. Although we've had some cold weather there's not been much snow and the past week has been very mild. So any snow is going to be atrificial slopes and popular as hel_l (i.e. queues).

queues wernt a problem last chinese new year (very popular time) apart from on the beginner slopes - most koreans who ski are not very good!

Kimchi and somtum are delicious... <deleted> you talking about?

The opposite of what your talking about. Deal with it.

When did you turn into a jerk? Thought you were an ok guy but saying that certain foods are so horrible is just about the most ignorant thing you can say. Just because you cannot expand your mind and tastes doesnt mean the rest of us are so closed. If its not hamburgers and pizza its no good? Geeze.

i doubt he was being serious!

Chuck6660

Mittheimp, I am not sure where you live in Korea, but I live in Seoul and rent is very high, the price of lodging is why Seoul ranks as the 3rd most expensive city. Vicinity of where I live an average 3 Bedroom, 2 Bathroom apartment goes for @3.4 million Won (@$3000) for monthly rent.

Also you are quite right about the fans...it is well known that Korean fans are indeed deadly !!

you live in Gangnam? I think you tend to pay for the area you live in Korea, even though as far as i can see there are no great advantages to this - korea hardly has dangerous ghetoes to be avoided.

People I know who rent, tend to live in one bed, living room, kitchen apartments costing between $400 - $700.. some of them very nice indeed. Friends living in 2 or 3 bedroom places put the key deposit down at around $60,000 - 100,000 - pay no rent and live in some excellent apartments (this in incheon, not seoul). This money is returned at the end of the contract, of course they miss out on the interest (perhaps now a dangerous thing to do considering the weak state of the won)... but compare that to living in London, which i think was listed 2nd in the most expensive city list and there is no comparison.

As for eating out, i wasnt meaning western food when i said it was easily affordable. The quality of western restaurants is pretty poor anyway i wouldnt really consider it an option. Good food and plenty of drink in a decent but no thrills korean restaurant over a 2-3 hour strectch rarely comes to much more than $15 per person.

been just once for a weekend, the resort was called vivaldi park. Im not a particularly experienced skiier but this place wouldnt hold your interest more than just for a couple of days - prices are fairly cheap, but i wouldnt go out your way for skiing in Korea .. its good if you live here , but to make a special trip, in my limited experience id advise against.

wait till the summer - as hot and humid as Thailand but you notice it more coz inevitably you have to do a bit more walking (no motorbike taxis for that 200m trip down the road)..

one more thing i should have added in my summery was about price. Ive seen lists putting seoul second or third in the most expensive cities in the world for expats. This in my opinion is nonsense, and must only be determined by the cost of housing someone in the most expensive hotels. Transport here is really cheap - subways and taxis, eating out is very affordable as is drinking unless you hit the imported bottles or cocktails (or expensive hotel bars - $16 for a small bottle of korean beer anyone?).. rent is also not expensive depending on where u choose to live, (although buying property here is expensive)... obviously Thailand is a lot cheaper, but if you are working then Korea is usually the much better option for affordable lifestyle and saving money -

a downside of Korea that i hadnt mentioned is that fans here are very dangerous and should not be left on at night under any circumstances

Kimchi and somtum are delicious... <deleted> you talking about?

The opposite of what your talking about. Deal with it.

kimchi is ok, somtum is 'delicious'

Hi , I know all about the schengen visa for holiday visits to other EU countries for holidays ,, but is it possible to get a holiday visa granted to us in the UK so we can holiday in the US ??

If anyone has any experience of jumping through all the hoops and can translate it into laymans language of how to go about it,,,,,, ( or forget it ) please let me know.

shes your wife? No problem at all theni would think - my ex wife got a USA tourist visa and travelled on her own. She was resident in UK at the time though. Need an interview and proof of travel itinery but its all pretty standard...and it took a few months , cant remeber exactly maybe 3 or less.

sex

like you didn't know!

(not me of course)

Kim-chi and som-tum Equally taste like shit. Its just beyond me why people and cultures will lie to them self's that these dishes are tasty when in fact it acutely taste like its been made out of a toilet bowl.

But the Korean Pig is so much tastyer then the Thai Pig. Because in korea they feed them SH!T. this earning them the name SH!T PIG.!!!

But the Chicken in Thai tast much better then Korea. maybe they feed them shit too.

only the black pigs on jeju island-- or am i wrong?

lived in Thailand for 3 years, and I have now lived in Korea for two years... heres my opinion..

Food

Thai food is nicer, but there is a bit more variety in Korea (of local food that is).. if you are into raw fish (as i am) Korea is a great place for it.. a lot of my friends really like the BB Q's but they don't excite me too much. Seoul is very disappointing for foreign food - even in Itaewon the quality is poor compared to bangkok. Outside Seoul you may find average and expensive pasta places, Korean version of Chinese food and Japanese food.. but very little else other than local food.

nightlife

Korea is excellent for night life, bars never close, all Koreans (except some of the numerous weirdee Christian folk) drink to excess regardless of age and sex - beers not great but palatable and local beer is almost as cheap as in Thailand. Hongdai in Seoul is an excellent night out. Also there generally is a good mix of expats, too many Canadians sadly (met 3 or 4 that were OK), but a younger crowd and generally not the weirdos we have all come across in Thailand - though there are a few

Women

At first i was blown away by Korean women, but after a while you realise a lot of it is very professionally applied make up, a lot of plastic surgery and the fashion... having said that there are many many many stunners here (especially hongdai).. and the short skirts in summer are just.. well , anyway! I think more Korean women wear high heels on a day to day basis than anywhere else. As for getting a girl friend, i have to say its easier than any where else Ive known - but thats coz I'm hitting on the right demographics - late 20's/early 30's.. Koreans are obsessed by marriage and are getting desperate by this stage... also as a foreigner u r seen as less traditional than the often sexist attitudes that still pervade Koreans ideas of marriage/relationships. Blind dating in Korea is very normal and easy to set up through colleagues, mates or online... and Koreans are sexually permissive as anywhere else... although one problem is girls/women tend to live at home until married - even into their 30's.. and parents often give night curfews to their adult children! but Korea is full of 'motels'!!!

men

The downside to Korea, and this is a sweeping generalisation, is the male Korean company can be hardwork - maybe because of the army. they are generally more patriotic and insular, and will bore you to tears about the correct way to drink soju (a disgusting chemical drink!!) and what is Korean culture - far too many social rules to relax when out with male work colleagues! a bit different in more informal gatherings.

culture and other stuff

As has already been said, Korea is quite a soulless place - destroyed after the wars, rebuilt and now obsessed with the economy - in fact the only news you will find in the English language newspapers is about LG, Samsung, daewoo and the strength of the won. There, apparently was a serial killer in Seoul a few years ago - his tally reached over 20 and it barely made the news. Saying that Korea is easily the safest place Ive ever lived - there is simply zero fear of crime - no graffiti, no gangs of kids.. nothing (although i think 4 women maybe a different story)... and no kids gangs coz they spend all day in school and academies - literally all day, high school kids will arrive home after midnight - studying the whole day. Korea is an incredibly regimented and controlled society - really predictable, you never really see anything that surprises you - where in Thailand you can see something interesting virtually anywhere at anytime. Koreans are also a lot more abrupt, very few 'thank yous' a lot of pushing and shoving in crowded areas - much less charm than Thailand. Thailand is certainly a more attractive country - BKK much prettier than Seoul. but away from the cities there are nice places - jeju island is nice, as is the east coast and skiing in winter is good and cheap.

Language

Ive tried learning both. Thai is much easier in my opinion. Reading Korean is easy and there are many english or Konglish words used - but apart from that everything is difficult - the grammar especially. Reading thai is much much harder, and the tones are a bit of a problem, but listening and speaking is suprisingly far easier, after 2 years in thailand i was about on basic conversational level - no where near that in korea (korea is apparantly rated as one of the hardest languages to learn) - but reading korean menus, timetables etc is very easy.

overall i miss Thailand, i prefer it - but the money is much better here and Korea is not too bad.. lots of good (expat) friends here and Korean women tend to make me forget about most of the negatives. and i get 4 months holiday a year so easy to take a short hop back to Thailand.

(sorry, drunk writing this so a bit incoherent!)

I bet your great fun to have a beer with! What with your super sleuthing exploits at airports and your ability to change all topics back to your myopic rants about Nigerian scammers. The evenings must just fly by!

Much more fun than the PC brigade.

alternative opinions and challenging debate is fine - although i find people who continually use the blanket term 'pc brigade' as their sole criticism of anything other than Daily Mail rhetoric - to be just a bit limited.

and someone who pastes the entire Enoch Powell speech on 'rivers of blood' in response to a half baked rant about Africans in an Asian city presumably lost the plot a long time ago (especially if they are an immigrant into Thailand themselves??)

Look around you, there are plenty of real life poor representatives of western male-dom walking around and visible in the news that I don't think the Thai people will get their sole view of foreigners from one western guy playing a bad guy on tv.

If you head down to Soi 5 you'll see plenty of real life, poor representatives of African men - when will we see a Nigerian drug pusher/scam artist feature as part of the storyline of a Thai soap opera?

I bet your great fun to have a beer with! What with your super sleuthing exploits at airports and your ability to change all topics back to your myopic rants about Nigerian scammers. The evenings must just fly by!

correspondence through internet will tell you only the very basics about her (age, family, favorite food) will not tell you anything about her personality - so don't presume anything - same goes for her, she doesnt know you at all either!

Ive heard of such policies in guesthouses before, never actually seen a sign. Clearly a decent sized hotel would not be able to get away with such discrimination.

Havent looked at this website in a while - but judging by this thread and particularly the one about Africans it sems the quality of debate has markedly declined!

Many if not most Africans in BKK jails are there on drug smuggling charges. Typically they are from an incredibly poor background and are prepared to take the risk and become the drugs 'mule' as their lives are desperate and they want to help their family. Unlike Western prisoners they get no help from their embassies (if they have one) and often have no access to any worthwhile legal representation - put in prison, forgot about and rot away.

Some of the comments on this thread are moronic. You would think being a minority in another country would at least open peoples eyes to racial stereotyping - even if most on here have the 'fortune' to be white - and thus perceived to be economically appealing! i guess the ones making the more ridiculous generalisations are the first to post on here when they feel slighted by Thai ignorance.

I'll delete the risible attempt at humour and stick to the beef.

So, are you saying we should excuse drug mules because of their poor background? Isn't that 'racial stereotyping'.

no! (did you read it?)

anyway, even if that was so, it would possibly be racial discrimination, not stereotyping which means something different!

i never said it wasn't!

OK, so then I don't see why you posted an irrelevant example then if you already knew it is was irrelevant, but ... whatever ...

BTW, a Korean American would pay the American price. Again, irrelevant.

i was reffering to Thailand with the 'korean' comment - as you implied asians are often given the 'Thai' price..

Sorry i thought the thread was about examples of two tiered pricing outside of thailand. My mistake for misunderstanding that the thread is entirely about race... many apologies.

I am going to Saipan next week.. an American protectorate island in the Pacific ocean.. I intend to play some golf, very cheap my American travelling companion informed me.. Well it is for him, i checked out the website.. US citizens half price!!! (even less if you are in the army).. $120 for me!!

So what? I am sure they check ID cards for qualification. Just showing up in jeans and sneakers won't cut it. Here, just look any kind of Asian that might be Thai, and in many places, there is the "discount". It is based on race. The discount you mention is based on citizenship and/or military status, REGARDLESS of race.

i never said it wasn't!

Also I know quite a few Koreans that pay the 'foreigner' price!

I am going to Saipan next week.. an American protectorate island in the Pacific ocean.. I intend to play some golf, very cheap my American travelling companion informed me.. Well it is for him, i checked out the website.. US citizens half price!!! (even less if you are in the army).. $120 for me!!

Clayton,

Well put, some people just cant tolerate any form of dialogue in taboo subjects.

However there are some people who really shouldnt be allowed to post out right disgracefull comments! and i belive its these ignoramus which make it hard to approach these types of subjects in a mature light!

Mojo80, i don't know you. You are just an anonymous poster on an internet forum. It is quite possible you are just on the wind up and are attempting to be ironic - It is also however, possible you are genuinely the cretinous moron your posts suggest you are... let's reflect upon the three posts prior to the one decrying the lack of mature debate...

1 - If i had known posting was this entertaining and informative, id have started a long time ago! For my next post, i think ill be targeting all the anal Politically Corret Crowd.......would that be ok DONNA?

2 - You cant talk! Get of your high horse! better yet fall off it "reeves style".

3 - havent even begone to disscuss the new dating scam ( not so new) men posing as thai women, and m oney being sent via wu to thailand for certain people involved in the scam

in your defense, you were clearly drunk when writing number 3...

anyway, I'm full of anticipation for your next contribution.

Intresting, its so easy to hide behind a wall of self importance and righteousness.

righteous.. yes - because i know bigoted racist opinions are wrong.

self important - its not me who thinks people are less worthy and have less right to stay somewhere purely based on assumptions of race!

maybe if you didn't spy on her facebook she would act less strangely.

hope that helps!

If i had known posting was this entertaining and informative, id have started a long time ago!

For my next post, i think ill be targeting all the anal Politically Corret Crowd.......would that be ok DONNA?

yes if you can come up with better criticism than just parroting the 'politically correct' line.

To travel the world and be born English speaking and White skinned is, unfairly, a lucky and fortunate thing. It doesn't, alas, ensure intelligence, reason or empathy..