mittheimp

Presumably Buddha himself was quite dark skinned coming from India!

Let me just make this short and sweet as you and Fletch seem to be missing my point.

The stereotype that exists for Thai women is not going to change unless Thailand changes it's outside image to the world . . . clear?

I am not saying "if the stereotype fits wear it" - but lets just explore your comparison a second - Laos 'used to be' one of the primary Opium cultivators in the world, however over the past 10 years they have with the help of UNODC have now actually declared themselves Opium free. They even have reabilitation centres in Luang Prabang. They have done something to remove that stereotype . . . Thailand has done what about its sex tourism?

I am fully aware of the problems of the border towns and prostitution - so are the NGO groups which you mention . . . so there again they are attempting to stop it. The sex trade here is discreet - much as it is in the UK - it's there but it's discreet. Can't say the same for Thailand though can we.

You question doesn't seem to have a '?' so I'll take it more as a comment. I have already made it clear about my wifes thought so I don't need expand on them.

As for the elderly gent and his wife . . . I bumped into him a few week later when I was out with my wife and you know what the first thing he asked . . 'is she Thai?'

Stereotypes eh!

I don't think we are missing your point! You have made several points none of them very coherently - the main one seems to be that you wish your wife wasn't presumed to be Thai as Thai women have a negative stereotype which the country and the women have largely brought upon themselves! Where as Laos is a poor country and anything negative that happens to Laos and its people is due to it being exploited by wealthier nations. I said previously that a more stupid post i couldn't find, and I stand by that.

Out of interest if you met someone who was aware of Laos as a country but presumed all its citizens were crazy communists that took part and persecuted the Hmong people would you be happier with that? Or has your wife actually attempted to help these people and eradicate the persecution? its a ridiculously pedantic point - but follows the logic you seem to be using! which seems to support the view that although my wife has as little to do with prostitution as yours - the accident of her birth - making her Thai - means she is more deserving of the stereotype than someone from Laos because the Thai government has done little to discourage prostitution. If you disagree with that conclusion please reread your previous posts and tell me where i am wrong!

As for the elderly gent and his wife . . . I bumped into him a few week later when I was out with my wife and you know what the first thing he asked . . 'is she Thai?'

...and Koreans continually get mistaken for Japanese!!! So what!

i think if someone was interested in that they would have wikipediaded it themselves!!

errrr......

So Stereotyping Thais is fine, as you seem happy to do, but not people from Lao!!!

A more idiotic post i couldn't find!

How come I expected this kind of brainless reply.

You seem to be missing the understanding of what 'stereotype' actually means let the online dictionary help:

A simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.

This stereotype that Thai women have gained is due to Thailand being one of the biggest (if not the biggest) sex tourism countries in the world. Just to clarify we are talking about the women here - not Thais in general understand that much!

So what is Thailand and the women of Thailand doing to remove this stereotype? Are gogo bars, massage palours and bars closing down? Nope. Do the police enforce the laws regarding prositution? Nope. Do many young Thai women look for old rich westerners for financial reason rather than love? Yep. Do these women often con these said westerners and have numerous boyfriends/husbands? Yep. Is often the only time Thailand get mentioned in western newspapers is it related to hookers in Pattaya et al? Yep. Has Thailand been seen as a sex tourism destination by the west for many decades? Yep.

So go on tell me how is the stereotype ever going to change? Are Thailand going to enforce laws and get rid of the mass sex trade? The only reason the stereotype exist is because it's based on what western people know about Thailand and many of them backed up by the numerous stories of western men being conned, robbed, beaten or even murdered in Thailand over women.

The fact is that all Thai women who have never been involved in the sex industry in the west will get tarred with this brush, regardless. The problem they have is Thailand and Thai women are doing nothing to change it - they are happy to take the money but not any criticism that might follow.

For everyone with Thai wives who recieves some kind of bad treatment due to this stereotype - I feel sorry for them it isn't nice, it shouldn't happen and isn't 'fine' (as you seem assume I think) - however like I say the stereotype isn't going to change, not for a long time.

So how do you think my wife feels when people tar her with the Thai women stereotype not even being from Thailand, let alone visited Pattaya, Phuket or where ever? I'll tell you pissed off with Thailand and Thai women - that's exactly how she feels/felt since due them she immediately gets classified as a 'hooker' or a 'bought wife'. She was made to feel uncomfortable on several occasions in the UK purely for being SE Asian looking due Thai womens exploits.

Question for you - your in a small english village you are walking down the street and you notice on the other side of the road an elderly gent late 60s, early 70s walking with a 20 something asian girl. What is are your immediate thoughts? No that isn't me my wife is 27 and I am 33 - but it is actually something I saw in my own town. Be honest with your answer!

emm....

Obviously some Thai women fit the Thai women stereotype - your rambling post seems to be blaming all Thai women and Thailand in general for any stereotype that your wife receives. Actually it is not just Thai women that receive this stereotype - but often East Asian women in general - Fillipino, Vietnamese Chinese and even Japanese.

My wife also faced occasional similar assumptions about her, (but i guess being Thai she had no one to blame but herself..as she is apparantly happy to take the money but not any criticism that might follow!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!) even though she is as far removed from the Thai sex industry than someone born in Eastborne or Hastings!! Fortunately she had the wit and the temperament not be bothered by it as any one who actually knows her is patently aware that this was not the case! Sadly most minorities face some kind of discrimination -Fortunately East Asians (with the possible exception of the chinese) tend to have to deal with far less prejudice than South Asians and Afo-Caribbeans in the UK. Even as a white man in South Korea i face the occasional prejudice .... that i must be sexually devient and disease ridden by certain, usually older members of Korean society!

and what do i think if i see an elderly man - 60's or 70's with a 20 year old Asian girl? Well what do you think people think when your wife is walking around with her father in law?

I dont believe i have ever seen a twenty year old girl walking as a couple with a seventy year old man anywhere - including Bangkok... although im sure its happened one or two times!!!

Anyone know what the reputation and image of this makeup brand is please?

expensive i think

It's all good and well people having these 'stereotypes' for Thais however for people who aren't Thai such as my wife being Lao they all get the same label.

People assume that she is Thai because of her looks and make these predefined judgements - it didn't half piss me and her off when we were in England with 'oh is she Thai' attitudes. The fact that when I tell them she is Lao, 90% of people don't know where the country is and had a blank look.

Even tarred with the same brush in the bloody British Embassy in Bangkok - since Laos doesn't have a British embassy. She has always recieved far better treatment from the Oz embassy here in Vientiane than she has EVER received from my 'home' country Embassy!

It's a very unfortunate thing the stereotyping of all female Thais however for a large amount it is actually true. All the Thai wifes my wife met in the UK were telling her all about how they were waiting for the there husband to die so they could get a new man now that they were over in the UK (well until they she told them she was Lao . . then they didn't say nothing more on the subject!) . . . a sad indictment really.

The guy the interview comes up with a corking quote:

When people hear that I am married to a Thai they always want to tell me a story which is along the lines of: a guy who's a friend of a friend who was an old guy who took a young girl from Thailand who stole all his money and ran off (this seems to be an urban myth).

Of course this never happens!

errrr......

So Stereotyping Thais is fine, as you seem happy to do, but not people from Lao!!!

A more idiotic post i couldn't find!

My father worked in shipyards as a welder and could afford a nice 3 bed house, 3 kids and a new car every 4-5years, basically he could afford a decent standard of living for doing an honest days work.

Now move on 30 years to his kids generation and a welder these days gets about 2250GBP per month, after all taxes including NI, council tax, TV licence which is estimated to be about 37% he is left with 1400GBP a month.

Now the average house price for a 3 bed semi is about 220,000GBP where we live, a mortgage of 200,000GBP at 6.5%PA is 1350 a month. (to rent the equivilant house cost about 900-1000GBP a month)

Britain is now in a position where someone earning the average wage cant support a family, if he wants to live a lifestyle similar to his fathers, one what is deamed a reasonable standard of living.

The best way to solve this probelm if you are in this situation and one i would highly recommend is going on the sick or getting a job which pays minimum wage and claiming social security benefits. You will receive about 35000 GBP a year in rent fees paid on your behalf, council tax and 500GBP a month in child tax credits, you will eventually get a council house, which you can buy in 3 years at approx 50-70%% of the properties value depending where you live or you can rent it for about 70-100GBP a week

Gordon the Economist Brown our new unelected dictator also doesnt understand the basics of supply and demand as recently he said though i cant find a quote that the huge influx of builders from the EU doesnt affect the wages of British born builders. Now when i was a 18yo i could earn 500GBP a week on a building site, now if i was doing the same job 14 years later i would still get paid the same amount. In this period i have also lost any employment rights as most tradesmen on site now are self employed, hence if a contractor decides not to pay me for work that has been passed by the developers foreman the only way to get paid right away, is to threaten violence and make sure they know i am prepared to inflict serious injury unless paid, unfortunately i had to do twice before deciding the building game was not for me several years ago.

As housing and work are 2 of the most important factors in any persons life, these 2 issues have declined in such a way for the average working man in the last 30 years that the standard of life we achieve for working hard is far lower then our fathers generation.

If you were earning 500 quid a week as an 18 yo builder 14 years ago then can i suggest you were being seriously over paid! an average income of 24,000 pounds in 1993 was well above the national average (and if you were in the north of England ridiculously above) and for an 18 year old a huge amount of money! I think 24,000 pounds for a semi or unskilled worker today still seems generous - exactly how much should they be paid?

The nature of work has obviously changed, this is a fact of life. Manufactoring industry in a developed country in todays globalised world was never going to stay sustainable to the levels pre 1960's.

Gordon Brown is not an unelected Dictator. The UK does not have a presidential system, you never voted for the leader of this country - you voted for your local MP.

I'm just interested in people veiws about this.

Do you believe your vote does actually counts and makes a difference. There are so many stories about the Bush presidency past and present regarding the voting, and in Particular now with Ron Paul as he is completely against US's present goal. Aparently the US are even threatening martial law, and are giving the American people an ultimatum. (Vote Ron Paul, and your endorsing terrorism). I'm a UK citizen and from what i see, Ron Paul actually wants to make a difference.

There are lots of conspiricies around. What do you believe.

I've had my doubts right from the beginning of the first Iraq situation and even events before this, but there is so much truth and lies, flying around, there is no wonder people are so confused.

I found this site www.officialsfp.com which was quite interesting, but i doubt what they are trying to do will work.

(Hope this kind of subject doesn't overstep TV's line)

in America i guess about 80 million people vote each presidential election - one vote out of 80 million will not make much difference - and nor should it!

I think having parents from two different cultures and speaking two different languages (as a first langugage) should be a poitive thing and ought to outweigh any negativity - However it is important that kids are taught to be fluent in both languages - (although obviously easier to for a kid to learn English in thailand than Thai in England) as this will not only give greater feelings of identity - but give much more opportunities and advantages later in life.

When living in London my wife rarely if ever faced any issues with being Thai - but did often get some from people presuming she was Chinese - (shouting DVD at her etc...). However London is very different to the rest of the UK..

I haven't got a problem with immigration ,just as long as its fair........for instance my wife is Thai and so she can live with me in U.K. without any problem but I can't in thai or own land like she can here......we all know the Indians , Pakistani's have big mansions back home for their retirement but I am married to a Thai and cannot plan like that ,....you try setting up a big mansion/company in bulgaria/romania for e.g. the local mafia will have you out before you can say Jack Robinson! unfortuneately for us wer'e the only mugs that play by the rules!

Okay, so when the UK changes its rules and allows all Thais into the UK with an automatic 30 day visa then Thailand might change its property and ownership rule!

Obviously countries, particularly attractive develping countries have to be careful not to sell itself completely to rich powerful ones - in the same way the UK has to protect itself from illegal immigration..... to sugest equal policies is ludicrous!

Asfor the UK.... some parts are very nice places to live, others are not! Britons travel and move abroad because they have the economic muscle to choosewhere to live or they feel priced out by the housing market - so try their luck else where. Either way we are still economically advanaged when abroad!

I agree. They give cheap and courteous service for little pay and doing a shitty job.

In fact it's a sought after job. Why do you think so many of them come down to Bangkok to do it if it so bad?

They can also make over 1,000THB take home per day. Practically unheard of in any other profession they could do. And well over the average wage.

It's also not any type of manual labour.

I also take issue with your 'skilful drivers' comment. They are completely the opposite. They are masters of the near miss.

You obviously don't drive in Bangkok yourself as taxis are a pest, and sometimes quite dangerous.

It is admirable your defence of cab drivers but let's face the facts that they are only equipped with the most basic of driving skills.

Do Taxi drivers really earn upto 30K per month? I would be very suprised if that was even near the norm!

Some taxi drivers are very skilled, to say that all of them have basic driving skills is a ridiculous comment, but at least inkeeping with your other posts!

Hello,

Im vaguely thinking of returning to Thailand early next year but i want to improve my Thai ability. Therefore im thinking of spending the first three months on an intensive language course. However I dont fancy Bangkok - most information i found in the archives concerns Bangkok or Pattaya. I'm completely flexible where i go for the three months - would prefer some where like Chaing Mai or one of the Issan citys. Can anyone recommend anywhere that is decent value?

regards..

What oh what is happening to the mighty Lincoln City??? BBC tipped ud for the title but look at us now! It would be a tragedy for th imps to get relegated again! sort it out..

Are we discussing whether Thailand is a poor country, or its inhabitants are poor?

I have lived in Isaan for 7 years, and what I write below is based on my own observations from my village and many neighbouring villages

Thailand as a country is not poor. there are many natural resources, exports are good, but all the money earned is mismanaged either at a national level or a local level.

Sadly the majority of the people are destined to always be poor. The people of Isaan ,some 18 million strong, are nearly all poor, often of their own making. Most have little education, and what education they are given is not the best since teachers in the main realise the kids will either end up in farming or the sex industry, with just a few able to get work in Bangkok, shortly thereafter moving themselves to the more lucrative sex industry. Basic wages are low, those in the "entertainment" industry generally fritter away their large earnings, leaving their families back home just as poor as ever.

Those that do work in labouring jobs, whether near home or in the bigger cities, and they number many millions, not only earn around 200bt a day, but travel back to their homes regularly for every village wedding, death, lucky home party or similar, most of which last 3/4 days. Once home they are reluctant to return to work, so it is no surprise they rarely have any money. They often ask me why farangs have more money, but won't give up their work ethic and culture and work continuously 5/6 days a week as we have all done, foregoing all the parties during working hours. Western funerals last an hour or 2, whilst Thai ones require everyone to attend for 4/5 days. Most western weddings are on Saturdays and are just 1 day events compared to 2/3 days in Thailand. There is money there for making, but they need to change their thinking and move into the 21st century.

Debt is rampant out here in the Isaan villages. Many work just to pay off the interest on their loans which can run at 10% a month or more. Even the rice farmers borrow to buy fertiliser, and pay the workers to harvest the rice. They pay their interest in bags of rice, and frequently have only a couple of bags left for their own use.

Compared to workers in the west, the majority are lazy - work for a few days - drink for a further few days - borrow money to return to their work, and commence the cycle again.

So yes I believe they are destined to always be poor, and their children's outlook is no brighter, since they are not encouraged by their parents to better themselves.

Despite all the obvious poverty, they seem a happy and contented lot, which is more than can be said of most people on good salaries back in the west.

How is it of their own making not to be given a decent education?

Some observations you make are true... but isnt this pattern a result of their being very little realistic chance of social mobility - apart from, as you point out, through the sex industry?

Thais working in manual labour jobs in BKK and elswhere are expected to work 6 or even 7 day weeks, get no paid holiday and work generally through horendous working conditions.....i therefore disagree entirely with this sentence......They often ask me why farangs have more money, but won't give up their work ethic and culture and work continuously 5/6 days a week as we have all done To get a holiday the only option is often to quit the job as taking time off is not permited..

How many farangs have had to work under the conditions that the majority of Thais do? not many i think!

One of my best friends is a Thai man who is generous and considerate to the core.

The most violent and selfish person I ever met was my ex Thai wife.

Where did I go wrong?

your sexuality??

my experience of Pattaya is of a sleazy dive, but when I talk to Koreans (I am in Korea) about going to Thailand - the ones that have been either go to Phuket (usually for honeymoon) or pattaya... and these are women i tend to be talking to. A few say Pattaya is nice, a few talk about the prostitution, a few never noticed it. I always express surprise that Pattaya was the place they went but i guess its all to do with package tours as Koreans would never travel independently .. anyway my point is that Pattaya must have something other than prostitution! (but it certain;y isnt a nice beach!)

How does she throw the darts? Does she use.......

okay.... i'll shut up..

wasnt it originally to stop rotten food tasting bad ----food, particularly meat goes off quicker in a hot county

The Krung Sri River hotel also has a gym/pool available to non-residents, and the newish hotel on U-Thong Road (north east corner of the island) has a gym and sauna.

The shopping is rapidly improving. Robinson opened a branch a few months ago in the Ayutthaya Park shopping centre (which is where Tesco-Lotus is). Amporn will be opening Ampomall soon, and Big C is coming, too. Incidentally, Ayutthaya Park only has 2 storeys, and no gym that I know of.

The restaurant situation for western food isn't great - but most of the junk food chains are represented (MacDonalds, The Pizza Company, Swensens, KFC). On Soi Farang, near the Ayothaya Hotel there are a number of cafes catering to backpacker tastes.

Tony's Place, a.k.a. MM Guesthouse, is a popular haunt for expats. It serves passable western food.

'mm guesthouse' is Sherwood house..... not Tonys place

another important point and i think relevent to this thread.....

dont u think glasses on pretty girls just makes them look even hotter anyway?

I'd be interested to hear your views on this point...

Koreans must have the worst eye sight in the world, in my high school i'd say 50% wear glasses, 20% contact lenses and 30% simply cant see the board....No joke.. not surprisingly glasses + contacts are very cheap here.

As for pretty girls, same thing at the dentist I used in Bangkok.... had to go 8 times in total. All the reception staff were stunning... and far too many employed for them all to have something meaningful today apart from smile and look pretty! (all excellent English and University educated I discovered!!) Easily the best and friendliets dentist i have ever been to by the way!

south park (bigger longer uncut)

groundhog day

best in show

i like spicey food

Prostitution, for all its ills, probably creates the greatest chance of upward social mobility in Thailand, which i think is not a bad thing!

either this is a pathetic attempt at a troll or u live in the least classy Thai family in the whole of Thailand.

Either way you lose!