Fryslan boppe

Phew, so many anti-UDD/RS and electoral majority folderol, makes one's head spin..Even trying to use Rally site clean-up as political denigration.....unbelievable ....Let's look at reality:

>>>>a declaration by PDRC secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban that the movement had the sovereign status to seek a royal endorsement to install a new administration.

"Install a new administration".... Via un-electoral processes is not a coup?...Is not illegaly overthrowing an elected Govt.?....Using their co-conspirators in Judicial and Independent agcy's instead of the military is not overthrowing an elected Govt?.....Try telling that to the majority voters whose selection they are trying to nullify.......Just some more smoke seeking to make white appear to be black.

>>>the government and its supporters must accept scrutiny and possible punishment by the independent organisations under the Constitution.

Yup, the Independent Agcy's are going to 'punish' the electoral majority for the choices they made......And some continue trying to 'normalize the abnormal' with respect to the PAD-Dem's controlling these guys.

>>> (Jatuporn)..boasting that the next event would involve a massive number of supporters.

Stating fact is 'boasting'?.....Keep in mind, in this instance, we are talking about 'supporters' as being the key elements representing an electoral majority...There is nothing boastful when one has measurable, objective data to back it up..You think the PDRC/DP blocking voters and tabulating an election was without reason?

BTW, When was the last time you heard Suthep's demagoguery referred to as "boasting"....Sometimes media double-standards and put-downs are not subtle.

"...in order to achieve the pro-government group’s goals.....Thai Red Shirts vow 'final fight' to defend Yingluck....show of support for the crisis-mired premier"

The above quotes, all a subtle put-down of the event being reported upon.

>Pro-Government? - Wrong..Pro-Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy

>"group"?.....Those representing the electoral majority gathering in their thousands, are a "group"?

>"Defending Yingluck"?...The old PAD-Dem mantra of trying to separate her and the PTP from its majority electoral base...They are not defending 'Yingluck"...They are defending their votes and the Govt. they selected. The anti-democrats are up against an electoral majority...Not Yingluck.

>"Crisis-mired premier"?.....Coup-intended unelectable political forces do not 'mire a premier?....Advocating their anti-democratic vision does not reflect badly on a premier as this quote implies....Quite the reverse if one thinks it through.

The following comments by Amsterdam to the rally last night give an insight to what is transpiring at that event. Some paraphrasing those comments here:

• Suthep is disqualified from using the word “Reform”
• Av is disqualified from using the word “Democracy
• Const. Court is disqualified from calling itself a “court”
• Prayuth cannot speak about “Peace”
• The HRC must not define Human Rights for Thailand.
• We are getting tired of a permanent coup of the DP and Army against law.
• Time for the PTP Govt. to quit obstructing the Thailand’s case at the ICC
• The coup we face now, is a continuation of the violence of 2010
• The essential reform that needs to occur is a return to the constitution of 1997
• No reform is possible without reform of the Thai military.
• Who does Prayuth think he is, lecturing us about democracy and Government.
• Have any Red Shirts voted for Prayuth?
• Since when is Prayuth a Minister of the Government.
• The rule of law must be reformed in Thailand
• Reforming the rule of law is not just a Red Shirt issue. But that of Thailand as a whole. All parties must recognize past mistakes.
• Many people ask, “How can we change Thailand”?
• Simple way…Stop drinking beer…boycott other entities engaged in anti-democratic activism.
• Have to ask the DP how is it that two men accused of murder, can lead change and reform
• What is it about Thailand that people charged with murder can block people from voting.
• Call the PDRC what they truly are…They are Thailand’s Taliban and must be stopped.
• The Thai Taliban is more dangerous because the West does not understand who they are.
• We are continuing representations to the Geneva Inter-Parliamentary Union.
• We will seek to condemn the CC over section 232 regarding ‘collective guilt’. Hearings have been scheduled.
• We will take international action here, regarding the CC and NACC.
• This International intervention only a beginning.
• I recognize all of those gathered here and Red Shirts everywhere in Thailand, that we are at a serious moment of Thai history. For that reason we begin new initiatives in the International arena.
• We intend to place International sanctions against individual members of the anti-democratic networks.
• May take months or years, but intend to list members of Independent Organizations who are thwarting Democracy in Thailand.
• We will ask Western Govts. To seize assets and prevent anti-democratic functionaries from leaving Thailand. Will severely curtail AV’s frequent trips to London.
• Red Shirts need to remember, they are not alone in their battle for Democracy.
• In the coming weeks, the DP will attempt to seize power, because they cannot win an election.
• The only enemy the Thai army can defeat is democracy and justice.
• We need to understand that the army and DP are watching to see the size and scope of every RS demonstration.
• I salute you for coming this weekend and my prayers are with you during this dark chapter of Thai history.

"Throughout its 68-year history, the Democrat Party has been counted on to help the country when it was at an impasse. It is willing to lead it out of the current political crisis '

I'm sure it would love to lead the way...This is along the same nonsensical thinking as those musing about "neutral Prime Ministers"

It is anti-democratic folderol, that unelectables self-servingly take seriously.

It eliminates all association with Electoral Democracy....As if the electoral majority would accept political entities they consistently reject at the Polls, to play a part in Governance, beyond the role such minority status grants it.

This is also an effort of the DP to try and get some separation from the anti-democratic political morass they are in....As if there are a different cast of characters involved...The old penchant of PAD-Dem's trying to segment themselves, when they are all essentially the same, from the same side of the Political Divide......Does anyone think the Lumpini crowd is not a DP crowd?

Two days now, of Media pushing anti-democratic stuff, and studiously avoiding the humongous rally of Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy advocates...One day a photo of Suthep hugged by someone with minimal reference in the article to the thousands from all over Thailand gathered elsewhere in BKK..... The next day of him outlining his plans for a type of 1930s-style Fascism for Thailand, promising his fascist elitists a new vision for Thailand: a civilian-led dictatorship...And now the DP leadership musing un-amusing thoughts.

Cycling through TV channels this morning, one sees the Nation channel, Bluesky channel, UDD channel, AsiaUpdate channel, ASTV...etc....All of them probably with a loyal audience who never go beyond those channels.

With such unconnected political streams and thinking in the body-politic, does anyone seriously think that issues of Governance can be created and/or imposed on any one of those streams, without national electoral legitimacy?....And if one side feels disadvantaged by that., I have some advice...Fix yourself and don't look outside yourself for your electoral futility...It is you who needs reform, so do it...........

Everyone is served better via competitive elections and a balance of power in Parliament......

It is good to see that no-one is hiding the reality of a judicial coup anymore.

This article is evidence of it.

Suthep speaking to the anti-democrats at Lumpini Park, as red shirts massed, declared that it is the National Anti-Corruption Commission and the Constitutional Court that will deliver victory for his supporters.

No smoke there.

His demagogic declaration, meant to incense and provoke pro-electoral and Parliamentary Democratic red shirts, is that once Prime Minister Yingluck met her"legal" demise, an unelected Prime Minister would assume power.

Indicating his confidence in the judicial coup, Suthep indicated it was all but a done deal, as per article above.

No more fuzzy-wuzzying about.

No more creeping coup subterfuge, no more denials of a judicial coup reality, no more attempts to cover up anti-electoral and pro-coup intentions. Which were the anticipated end-game from the beginning, pretending to be issue opposition, tellingly and motivationally revealing, outside Parliament.

So that is good...Everyone knows where they stand, and can act accordingly.

.

"The backdrop is an eight-year struggle between a royalist establishment -- supported by the judiciary and the military -- and Yingluck's family, which has traditionally enjoyed strong support in the northern half of Thailand"

This anti-UDD/Red Shirt media really likes to historically contextualize things with their own spin. But it is stated as if it is fact...As in the above quote.....It definitely has one side of the so-called 'struggle' right, but the other side is spun according to their desired interpretation.

One side is not "Yingluck's family".........It is the electoral majority. Also, trying to diminish an electoral majority that regularly wins national elections, as "enjoying strong support in the northern half of Thailand"

But PAD-Dem's do not like to characterize themselves as being against Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy even though they are.....They avoid that undesirable characterization, by casting the electoral majority as 'uni-dimensional"....It serves the added purpose of denigrating the Political legitimacy of this majority........

By framing their "struggle" which is code for "coupist intentions" as one of themselves against Thaksin, who they have tried to demonize in order to justify their previous coup, they are trying it again for the current attempted one.

Again, with feeling.

Let me respond to selected quotes that jump out at someone having equal understanding of the UDD/Red shirts/PTP, as that expressed in this spin from the other side of the Political Divide:

>>>"Govt at risk of sinking after being steered into one storm after another..."

Not the Govt....The electoral majority and their votes selecting this Govt......It is they who are being accosted.....Trying to separate the Govt. as an isolated entity, is advantageous to the Opposition.....Tackling an electoral majority as they are doing would be embarrassing for them.

>>>"As the attempts to discredit independent agencies continue..."

Again, the Opposition seeking to normalize the abnormal nature of these instruments being used to advance their coupist intentions.....For that objective, it is important for them to characterize these agencies as normative....Being anti-democratic power-grabbers because they cannot win an election, would be viewed as being against electoral and Parliamentary Democracy...A fact they want to hide....Ostensibly, they would suggest they are not against electoral and Parliamentary Democracy, but fail to indicate that they are only in favor when it favors them....which given their electoral futility, it definitely does not.

>>>"However, all we see is this ship, captained by Yingluck, gearing up for all the storms in sight, heedless of the shouted warnings from outsiders"

In this case, there are not shouted warnings from outsiders, but coup intentioned shouts from an electoral minority...espousing minority rule.

>>>"Independent agencies and academics have warned Yingluck and the government many times about actions that could eventually damage the country"

The so-called Independent agencies and Ammart elitist academics warnings, are part of a pattern more aptly characterized as a "creeping coup" The latest move, which sees the Elitist Constitutional Court accepting a case against Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra that will have it ruling within about two weeks.

The case accepted by the kangaroo court was submitted by a group of senators led by Paiboon Nititawan. This unelected senator is a regular petitioner to the Constitutional Court and a member of the anti-Thaksin group of appointed senators with Elitist and military ties

>>>"If Yingluck and her government cling to their prejudices and their will to win, they might come to the end of their rope"

More factually stated, that if the electoral majority cling to their voting choices, they will face a coup by an unelectable minority who arrogantly dismiss that majority, and who feel entitled to govern, elections be d......

"...massive "show of strength" for the embattled government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra. Anti-government protesters have been calling for her resignation, and urging the military and the courts to depose her"

Again, some corrections are in order to this historical contextualization statement, obviously written by a PAD-Dem writer:

• The Yingluck Govt. is not 'embattled"...Her majority electorate is solidly in place, and grown since her election....The shenanigans of Suthep's street people can be thanked for that....The next election will demonstrate this growth and curtail the illusions of grandeur of coup-intentioned people, thinking their minority can make an elected Govt."embattled".....
• Any judicial or Independent Organization being used by the Ammart to unseat an elected Govt. due to their own electoral deficiencies, will be instantly discreditted more than they are already.
• Coup-intentioned people, not anti-Govt. people, have been agitating. Their form of agitation can more aptly be termed "coup advocacy', not protesting. Trying to use issue protests as cover for coup intentions doesn't fool anyone.

Best warning is to be forewarned.

Jatuporn's indication that the UDD/Red Shirts are ready is not an idle thought.

Their meetings of last week which were heavily managed to insure only key leaders were involved and protecting their plans, put the final touches to the response of the UDD/Red Shirts. The response to when the Ammart pulls the coup-trigger via their chosen vehicles of judiciary/Independent Organization. Unelectables trying to circumvent Electoral and Parliamentary Democracy just isn't going to fly... They think by not using the military, they are creating impenetrable smoke.

The anti-democrats continue to play this charade of trying to make a coup not appear to be a coup......No-one is fooled, least of all the pro-democracy UDD/RS's.

Bleating about those bad, bad UDD/RS's and PTP not respecting the law, falls on deaf ears, when the law instruments being used serve the interests of the minority electorate......No diversionary silliness will cloud the reality of an electoral majority seeing their votes and choice of Govt. being negated by a minority, via whatever faux method the anti-democrats dream up.

Elections and Parliament....Nothing less!

Let the games begin.

"In a rare move, top military leaders will meet tomorrow to discuss a possible solution for the country at a time of political deadlock and likely confrontation between pro- and anti-government groups this Saturday"

"Top brass to step in"....Coup-monger wishful thinking.

A "rare move"?.....Coup-mongers and their supportive media trying to foment a sense of crisis where there is none. I'm sure these guys meet all the time, and to make another one appear to be something momentous obviously plays to the agenda of those needing urgency. Otherwise they just sit in Lumpini and no-one cares.

Military guys are going to solve a political deadlock?....Really?....Does knowing something about shooting a gun give one political insight?...And what is this about 'deadlock'?.....Coup-mongers not achieving their coup so far does not a deadlock make...the electoral majority is still in place and watching what the minority will try to do, in forcing their way into governance via non-electoral means. They are watching the attempts to nullify their voting choices by those trying to make a coup not appear to be one, by using Independent organizations and judicial elements. To call it a deadlock is an 'illusion of grandeur' by the minority electorate. The next election and having a governing majority in parliament, will quickly dispel any lingering notions of a political deadlock.

And no, the 'wished for' confrontation between pro-democracy and anti-democrats pretending to be 'anti-Govt.' wont happen. Yes, there will be a humongous UDD/Red Shirt rally this Saturday, as a warning shot across the bow of those contemplating a coup, but not in a location where the hoped for confrontation can occur. So the "Brass" and dissapointed Lumpini Park denizens can relax.

BTW, IMHO the only reform discussions occuring in Lumpini Park should focus on one issue, and one alone....How can we adapt ourselves to win an election in the foreseeable future....That is really the only thing the ought to think about. Only when they win an election, can they hope to advance their objectives.

It is interesting to note that none of the anti-democrats decided to block the Senate election. Of course, this is because the anti-democrats know that, as the Senate is half-appointed, they are guaranteed to "win" in the sense that they really only need a couple of elected Ammart Elitists to consider that they have a "win."

It is only elections that the anti-democrats think they might lose that they choose to boycott and block.

This election of a prominent Ammart Elitist in former Auditor-General Jaruvan Maintaka proves their point....I understand there were several telling instances indicated in her previous "career", her desperation to hold her post in this AG office, despite rules that required her to leave.

Jaruvan claimed that her continued occupation of her office represented an effort to “save the country.” And was supported by various Ammart Elitist groups.

Welcome to a Senate who this article indicates, will rule on the legitimacy of an elected Prime Minister.

"It is interesting to note that none of the anti-democrats decided to block the Senate election. Of course, this is because the anti-democrats know that, as the Senate is half-appointed, they are guaranteed to "win" in the sense that they really only need a couple of elected Ammart Elitists to consider that they have a "win."

It is only elections that the anti-democrats think they might lose that they choose to boycott and block."

Permit me to make one additional point to this quote.

You will note that there was no "reform before elections" needed in this case.

Scamper, old son, they didn't clear an Army BARRACKS, they cleared a small Army POST - not at all the same thing. There IS a large barracks just around the corner from the NACC, about a mile from my house. I suspect the original soldiers came from there, but can't be sure.

Also Dr Bruce, where is your evidence that the monk has 'attacked and tortured' anyone at all, or even expects to?? Loose hyperbole like that just makes a mockery of your post.

Personally I think it's great that the NACC is now guarded by others than the red-shirt thugs. Let's just hope the UDD thugs don't come back in force ...

"Personally I think it's great that the NACC is now guarded by others than the red-shirt thugs. Let's just hope the UDD thugs don't come back in force"

In other words, this quote is one of anti-democracy and pro-coup....The pro-coup forces are the righteous ones, and pro-democracy are the 'forces of evil'.

I am pro-Democracy and proud of it. In favour of electoral and Parliamentary traditions.

Just demonstrates the general knowledge that these so called Independent agencies are politically aligned...Why else would there be political stuff like this going on there.... If they were legitimately corruption oriented as their reason-for-being implies, it wouldn't generate political confrontation.

The Red Shirts here are miniscule and representative of millions behind them nation-wide, who know tools of Ammart coup-mongers when they see them.

In any event, from what I can see, the UDD/Red Shirts are ready...Prepared for which ever agency or judicial entity the Ammart coup intentioned forces will use, as their vehicle to pull the coup-trigger.

Right now it appears that the NACC is the chosen instrument, but we will see.....I am sure there is a master-plan with someone out there.

BTW, this has nothing to do with 'anti-govt.' or with 'protesters' as this article's title suggests........Coup-mongers are not anti-Govt, they are pro-coup....and those agitating for a coup are not 'protesters'. They are not protesting. They are coup-mongering...............However, they try to hide that.....pretending to be self-righteously indignant about this issue or that as cover for other intentions and pretending to be protesters.

"Thousands of Thai anti-government protesters march in Bangkok"

>This is not anti-Govt.
>This is anti-democracy

>This is pro-coup

>Those seeking to power their way into governance via non-electoral means, are not protesters....Protesters by definition are 'against something"...These people are 'for' something.

That said, it is pitiful seeing them run about the streets, when very obviously should be expressing themselves at the ballot box and in parliament.

Everyone to their own I guess. To see an electoral minority seek to assert itself over an electoral majority is folderol.

Without playing the numbers game with these people today, it can be safely said they would be dwarfed by the electoral majority should they gather at one place, on one particular day.