roath

When caught with overstay a judge will make the decision on the fine and the ban. That is where the prosecuted term comes into play.

I don't think they would ban a person for just a few days of overstay unless they were a repeat offender.

Technically speaking, if you go before a Judge, then that means that you have been 'Prosecuted'. Maybe there is some leniency for the Judge and/or Immigration as to whether they will apply the ban, but that isn't clear.

You should put some pressure the company to get your passport back to you. Tell them you are going to report it as stolen.

You would have to do a police report for a lost or stolen passport in order to get a new passport at your embassy.

I cannot tell you what you what your embassy will do since each one is different.

You should not need your previous passport to apply for a replacement.

It has caused me to overstay so I'm reluctant to go to the police with this.

You will not be reporting the loss of the passport to immigration but to your local police station.

You need to contact the Embassy and ask if they will process an application for an ETD/passport without a police report.

Best you do that on Monday before the New Year holiday.

ok thanks a lot for the advice.

If you are going to apply for an ETD and not a new passport remember it will only be issued if you have flight tickets back to UK if that is your home country.

A new passport application will not require tickets to be shown.

That's not quite correct. If you can show you live in Thailand they will issue to neighbouring country who accept ETD e.g. Cambodia. The application for a new passport is separate to the application for an ETD (this is for UK Embassy anyway)

A one way ticket to any nearby country would be accepted and getting one 60 days later would be cheap on a low cost carrier.

The 17th is not bad for there it can at times take longer.

What about getting a ticket out of Thailand after 90 days (i.e. after getting 30 day extension to SETV). Would that be acceptable?

Sell one of your rental properties and buy an Elite card with the equity. If your properties are mortaged you are soon going to be getting a lot less income when the tax relieve on mortgage payments ends so probably wont be in a position to stay here or anywhere else. Just a bit of forward thinking.

Good ideal but I have no plans to sell yet maybe never

Also when I hered about that new tax law I looked into it and I don't think it will effect me,i can't remember why it might be because I am on interest only morgatge's, or that I don't make much money any way, I am more worried about intrest rates going up, or i herd that if you become a non resident you will loose your tax free allowance which i herd old Gorge Osborne is talking about in the future

Maybe I will be going home anyway because of the above, if that happens I will just get a bed sit work for six months and come back on a METV

then maybe keep doing that for a few years

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Once the rules come into effect, you will only be able to deduct mortgage interest from your taxable earnings if you hold your properties in a company. Individual tax allowances will be withdrawn, so from what you are saying, you will be affected. Whether you are interest only or repayment is irrelevant. Whether you make any profit at all will depend on how much profit you make after both tax and mortgage payments, as you will be taxed on your income less only repairs and maintenance, which tends to be fractional compared to most people's mortgage payments.

If you register as a non-resident, you lose your personal allowances for that tax year. This already is in place.

The last statement is wrong.....I thought that I had deleted it actually, as I posted in its place an article from the Telegraph which clarifies the same..anyway, maybe you can't delete stuff once posted or something as I can't manage to do it sorry so please just ignore this and stop replying to it....

To get a long-term visa for India, you now need to return to your home country unless you have residency in the country from which you are applying. Saying that, I was turned down for a 6 month visa last week (I have previously been issued 1 year visas from the Consulate in London as I am a regular visitor to India), as even though I hold a yellow book (tabien baan) my current extension of stay in Thailand would expire before the expiry of the 6 month Indian visa. So basically, unless you have PR, they are limiting any application to the first 6 months of any renewal of any extension of stay which doesn't exactly makes things convenient if you want to go to India at any time during the second half of your extension. I will go to India, but on an eTourist visa, which is only valid for 30 days (and limited to 2 visits in any 12 month period)

Not sure of UK rules, but this condition is one of the cases where you could qualify for a 2nd passport from the USA. Check on this, because it would not only make it possible to get your Indian visa, it would also make getting your METV by mail easier, and allow you more SETVs from neighboring consulates.

It is possible to get a second passport from the UK Passport Office, but you need to justify why you need two passports simultaneously (working for a multi-national company and/or frequent business travel are the typical reasons given) and it isn't a given

http://pointstobemade.boardingarea.com/2014/03/25/getting-a-second-uk-passport/

I understand the logic of sending my passport back to UK to get visa there, but that doesn't prevent possible (and potentially serious) difficulties if the Indian Immigration authorities checked my entry/exit stamps (for which there would obviously be a deficiency - having two passports doesn't solve that problem and I suspect would make immigration authorities more suspicious, and therefore more likely to check, than less)

Your 2nd passport would not have missing stamps. Only one of the passports is used for both entry and exit to any country. The second would be issued, in this case, specifically to allow its being mailed out for a visa which is non-obtainable, otherwise. But that is per US regulations, so YMMV. As well, things have gotten tighter in this arena, so may be a no-go these days, in either country.

I understand the logic. I just wonder though what the Indian immigration officials would say if I have a Visa from London in one passport without corresponding stamps (in/out) from Thailand.

Maybe they wouldn't even check, and maybe it shouldn't matter as you say, but the way that things are at the moment, if they did check, there would be a real possibility that they could refuse entry.

Anyway, as things stand, it would be incredibly difficult for me to get a second passport whether I wanted one or not.

To get a long-term visa for India, you now need to return to your home country unless you have residency in the country from which you are applying. Saying that, I was turned down for a 6 month visa last week (I have previously been issued 1 year visas from the Consulate in London as I am a regular visitor to India), as even though I hold a yellow book (tabien baan) my current extension of stay in Thailand would expire before the expiry of the 6 month Indian visa. So basically, unless you have PR, they are limiting any application to the first 6 months of any renewal of any extension of stay which doesn't exactly makes things convenient if you want to go to India at any time during the second half of your extension. I will go to India, but on an eTourist visa, which is only valid for 30 days (and limited to 2 visits in any 12 month period)

Not sure of UK rules, but this condition is one of the cases where you could qualify for a 2nd passport from the USA. Check on this, because it would not only make it possible to get your Indian visa, it would also make getting your METV by mail easier, and allow you more SETVs from neighboring consulates.

It is possible to get a second passport from the UK Passport Office, but you need to justify why you need two passports simultaneously (working for a multi-national company and/or frequent business travel are the typical reasons given) and it isn't a given

http://pointstobemade.boardingarea.com/2014/03/25/getting-a-second-uk-passport/

I understand the logic of sending my passport back to UK to get visa there, but that doesn't prevent possible (and potentially serious) difficulties if the Indian Immigration authorities checked my entry/exit stamps (for which there would obviously be a deficiency - having two passports doesn't solve that problem and I suspect would make immigration authorities more suspicious, and therefore more likely to check, than less)

A lot of mis-reporting then from UK press who seem to have indicated that the exemption would be lost completely. 20% relief isn't the same as no relief, just higher-rates of relief, although this will still adversely affect a lot of people. I was also not aware of the removal of the automatic 10% deduction against wear-and-tear which I have been applying against my own situation for years, as this is a standard commercial write-off so thanks for the clarification (or thanks to the Guardian on this occasion also)

Sell one of your rental properties and buy an Elite card with the equity. If your properties are mortaged you are soon going to be getting a lot less income when the tax relieve on mortgage payments ends so probably wont be in a position to stay here or anywhere else. Just a bit of forward thinking.

Good ideal but I have no plans to sell yet maybe never

Also when I hered about that new tax law I looked into it and I don't think it will effect me,i can't remember why it might be because I am on interest only morgatge's, or that I don't make much money any way, I am more worried about intrest rates going up, or i herd that if you become a non resident you will loose your tax free allowance which i herd old Gorge Osborne is talking about in the future

Maybe I will be going home anyway because of the above, if that happens I will just get a bed sit work for six months and come back on a METV

then maybe keep doing that for a few years

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Once the rules come into effect, you will only be able to deduct mortgage interest from your taxable earnings if you hold your properties in a company. Individual tax allowances will be withdrawn, so from what you are saying, you will be affected. Whether you are interest only or repayment is irrelevant. Whether you make any profit at all will depend on how much profit you make after both tax and mortgage payments, as you will be taxed on your income less only repairs and maintenance, which tends to be fractional compared to most people's mortgage payments.

If you register as a non-resident, you lose your personal allowances for that tax year. This already is in place.

I thought it went down to the normal 20% tax allowance which I am on anyway

At the moment after everything what I pay, I am left with about 12000 a year,so thought it wouldn't effect me, as I only pay tax on 2000,is that wrong then?

I have no tax allowances on anything at the moment

I thought the non resident rule has yet to come in place or that's what they told me when I phoned the tax office in late 2014

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/11272572/Expats-will-keep-their-tax-break.html

I think only you can decide if it is worth the hassle to try to stay here or leave. My opinion is that actions speak louder than words and even though no one from the Thai government has come out to say we don't want digital nomads or self sufficient foreigners living here, the current changes in visa policy couldn't be any clearer(Thai style clarity). Contrast the current policy to what was happening just three years ago and it is very easy to see where we are headed. Check out another thread currently running on TV where the OP talks about an Australian getting a 1 Non O visa for visiting friends in Thailand. I also added this; "A Canadian consulate gave me a Non O for visiting my GF 3 1/2 years ago. The consular officials were actively promoting these visas to travelers at the time. You would walk into the the consular office with the intention of obtaining a tourist visa and the official would immediately ask you if you have a GF in Thailand.." It was that easy just 3 years ago. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/868486-immigrant-o-visa/

"Thai government has come out to say we don't want digital nomads or self sufficient foreigners living here, the current changes in visa policy couldn't be any clearer(Thai style clarity). "

Apparently the clarity has flown over your head (farang style).

They want those using visa exempt entries to be those who are making short term visits to Thailand and those using tourist visas to be real tourists who have money to spend rather than those who stay here either because they haven't enough money to qualify for any of the legitimate long stay options or those who have taken illegal employment here.

The number of "self-sufficient" foreigners here who can't manage one of the available options, including the option of visiting their home country to obtain the new METV or using the Thai Elite approach is undoubtedly underwhelming compared to the number who exist here year after year doing border runs because they haven't the resources to meet the requirements for a retirement or marriage extension or because they have taken employment without bothering with or qualifying for a work permit. And yet even they can probably soldier on a little less conveniently.

What should inspire clarity is that too many people have abused the system and too many of them have bragged about it on TV and the social media and way too many have continued to stay in the country long after their permission to stay has expired and now the loopholes are being closed. And, as always, there may indeed be some comparatively innocent victims of the crackdown, but put the blame on those who have been gaming the system, not on the government that is making a reasonable response to a problem that is happening world-wide ... economic refugees of one sort of the other regarding some countries as their personal refugee camps.

Sorry I don't fit into any of those groups

I am not retired

I am not married

Even if i could afford a elite visa, I am not sure if i want to live here for all those years

I am not working

And i can't even Get a METV as I don't work the only way for me is to go home take any job what i don't want, I can't even go to India or somewhere then come back in a year or something,that's the bit I hate why can't i go somewhere else as long as I am out of the country say for six months what difference dose it make to them, as long as I out of the country for a while that's the only bit i don't agree with,

I haven't been taking advantage of any loopholes I apply for visas they give them to me

If they don't want me and my money I suppose I will have to leave

The more I think about it the more I think it's time to go

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

To get a long-term visa for India, you now need to return to your home country unless you have residency in the country from which you are applying. Saying that, I was turned down for a 6 month visa last week (I have previously been issued 1 year visas from the Consulate in London as I am a regular visitor to India), as even though I hold a yellow book (tabien baan) my current extension of stay in Thailand would expire before the expiry of the 6 month Indian visa. So basically, unless you have PR, they are limiting any application to the first 6 months of any renewal of any extension of stay which doesn't exactly makes things convenient if you want to go to India at any time during the second half of your extension. I will go to India, but on an eTourist visa, which is only valid for 30 days (and limited to 2 visits in any 12 month period)

Sell one of your rental properties and buy an Elite card with the equity. If your properties are mortaged you are soon going to be getting a lot less income when the tax relieve on mortgage payments ends so probably wont be in a position to stay here or anywhere else. Just a bit of forward thinking.

Good ideal but I have no plans to sell yet maybe never

Also when I hered about that new tax law I looked into it and I don't think it will effect me,i can't remember why it might be because I am on interest only morgatge's, or that I don't make much money any way, I am more worried about intrest rates going up, or i herd that if you become a non resident you will loose your tax free allowance which i herd old Gorge Osborne is talking about in the future

Maybe I will be going home anyway because of the above, if that happens I will just get a bed sit work for six months and come back on a METV

then maybe keep doing that for a few years

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Once the rules come into effect, you will only be able to deduct mortgage interest from your taxable earnings if you hold your properties in a company. Individual tax allowances will be withdrawn, so from what you are saying, you will be affected. Whether you are interest only or repayment is irrelevant. Whether you make any profit at all will depend on how much profit you make after both tax and mortgage payments, as you will be taxed on your income less only repairs and maintenance, which tends to be fractional compared to most people's mortgage payments.

If you register as a non-resident, you lose your personal allowances for that tax year. This already is in place.

Check out Huawei...better specs and build than Samsung imo at same price point. Seem to be promoting more in Thailand now. I got one for me and GF

Here also every Monday near Warorat market. Monk speaks excellent English

The law and the lawyer on this site said,that single people can get a Yellow book,but getting past the people in the Amphur office is a different matter.I got knocked back twice at a small office but i will go to the provincial capital one day and get there opinion.No biggy at the moment but may get a lawyer involved latter.

It can help to show them that other foreigners have obtained yllow books if single (ignoring the fact that there is no legal requirement).

I am single and got one so it can be done.

I suspect that they think that if you are married a) you are more likely to remain in Thailand long term and are less likely to commit crime or otherwise be a reprobate etc. if you have the guidance and calming influence of a Thai national. So you may need to jump through a few more hoops than a married guy to show that you are "worthy" enough to get one (again ignoring the fact that we are meant to be entitled to one as long term residents)

Really, just how many people have copies of their parents birth certificates ?

First off, I am talking about MY birth certificate which shows my parents names. Don't most people have a copy of this around?

Actually thanks for reminding me. I've been meaning to get a copy of my birth certificate for quite awhile and never even thought about my parents names being on it until you mentioned it.

Just did a search online, found the correct provincial ministry, spent 5 minutes trying to remember what my mother's maiden name was (never actually knew her to be honest) and sent in the request. The Certificate will have my info of course as well as the names of my parents on it.

(I recall one time when I was applying for a visa for India they too wanted to know my parents names for some reason.)

As far as the Yellow Book is concerned I'll probably do it as well once my certificate comes. Not only will that save me 2-3 trips to soi 5 every year for Residency Certificates but I think it is useful as well when you do your Non-O(A) extension as well, as proof of residence ?

Would help me right now as well as I need a stack of paperwork for my village so that they will connect me to the new water line they are installing. Seems I also need a map showing them where I live.

India, like many Asian countries, doesn't use family surnames the way we do, so the way that you establish your parentage and lineage is to say that you are "Raj Tapir son of Srinath Narendra" or whatever. Asian countries also tend to put a lot more importance on parentage as well than we do from Western countries.

I got my Yellow Book in Chiang Mai (Hang Dong Amphur). I am single, but I had my Thai GF help.

The lady at the Amphur initially mentioned about better to be married, but after some discussion, she accepted that it wasn't necessary for what is as others have stated merely a proof of residency. My GF said that Thais don't need to be married to get a Blue Book, so why should farang be married for a Yellow Book which does the same thing for us.

The Land Officer also wanted to personally check the house and talk to the neighbours (check there wasn't a meth factory probably), but in the end, didn't bother with anything more than a signed ID from the Por Yai Baan. I got the impression that how you interact with them and come across is important, as is your reason for having a Yellow Book . She was neurotic apparently about my possibly using the YB for nefarious purposes and her being held responsible for having issued it which gives some insight into their reluctance to deal with the issue and something to bear in mind.

So short answer is yes you can get as a single guy, but it helps to have a Thai vouch for you (and you will need anyway to sort out the stuff at the Land Office and Village Head and stuff). I translated my own Passport (with help from my GF and Google Translate). They just need the information rather than have anything certified. Same for your parents' details. In the West, we are not used to having to give information about our parents, but in Asia, it tends to be a much bigger deal (not least as they don't always have family Surnames the same way we do in the West)

Hope this helps

I think waiting for that 6 month visa would be like waiting for a tree to grow and bear fruit.

Best to apply for a 2 or 3 entry tourist visa at the embassy in London. You can apply for it by mail. Info can be found here: http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/4

The Nation article seems to suggest that the new visa will be coming into effect in about 2 months, or is this just poorly reported as a proposal rather than something concrete?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Plan-to-grant-multiple-entry-visas-to-tourists-fro-30266029.html

Thai Red Cross in BKK refused me last year due to my having lived in the UK prior to 1996 (due to BSE/Mad Cow Disease concerns). I don't know if they still apply this or have changed their guidelines

Thanks for the answers so far regarding usefruct. Im ignoring the usual suspects pointing out that my life is at danger.... I did my homeworks and can manage the risks quite well...

Back to the topic: I also heard that usefructs get more difficult to register in Pattaya, therefore an envelope might be the key...

There is a strong likelihood that this office is so used to getting envelopes to get something which you are legally entitled to get done without any other charge that that set by the government means that it will become common practice to refuse to do something unless an envelope is involved.

I had an usufruct registered at Chiang Mai. At first, the staff said that they couldn't do that day as they were too busy, and then promptly sat down to read their newspaper in front of us (no joke). I was with a local lawyer at the time, but my GF refused to pay anything and after half an hour of us sitting there watching them reading whatever, she went up and kicked up such a fuss that they just went ahead and did it (took all of 5 mins).

I would say that I also wanted to register a mortgage (nothing to stop foreigners lending money to a Thai for the purpose of purchasing a property and registering a charge for the same). The Land Office said that they didn't know how to do (seriously!!). What BS as there were half a dozen banks within 100m of their office who I am sure have mortgages registered there day in and day out. I should have just paid up to be honest, but it was getting late and had had enough BS for the day (and can be registered at a later date anyway) so we just left it (and I had the security of an usufruct as well).

It is worth mentioning that as well as the usufruct you should also get your partner to make a will leaving the property in your name. Even though you are a foreigner, you are entitled to inherit land: you simply have a very short period of time (usually about 6 months from memory) within which to sell on the property (or put in some other Thai person's name). You may also wish to register a mortgage at the same time. Even if you were forced to leave the property as in the above alleged example, you could still enforce the mortgage through a third party (i.e. a lawyer) which gives you a reasonable chance of getting something back from the property.

Just to clear something up for me.

The usufruct allows me possession of the land until death.

What does the will add to this? I'm guessing that you are talking about a non-spousal arrangement so you get the ownership and right to sell.

I've actually never considered the implications but I guess if a Thai spouse of a foreigner dies even with a usufruct in place, he still needs to transfer the property to a Thai national while retaining the rights of residence.

As I mentioned, the land will pass on to the daughter. Do I need my wife to put this condition in a will?

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread

Yes, you are right: the will deals with succession issues. I don't know about Thai inheritance or intestacy law: in most countries, the estate passes on intestacy to the spouse. That isn't always the case however. It is always better to plan for these things than leave them to chance as of course there may be some legal dispute which arises or the law may not do what you wanted/expected. So, yes, the will should deal with what you wish happen to your estate after your decease.

For those of us who are unmarried of course, we would want to ensure that we have some control over who owns the land (and whose name goes in the Blue Tabien Baan) if our partner pre-deceases, not least as of course, you may wish to sell the property before you yourself pass away, which might be difficult if some awkward family member is involved (i.e. may want a substantial pay-off to let you shift property and get at least a chunk of the investment back on the disposal). Foreigners can of course own the actual house (just not the land it sits on), and many people have talked about removing the house etc. to be as difficult as the person you are dealing with, but this is hardly a great solution (and in addition to the hassle involved in demolition if not a moveable wooden house means that you have to stump up for demolition and removal of debris costs etc so hardly makes economic sense).

Hopes that this helps

Thanks for the answers so far regarding usefruct. Im ignoring the usual suspects pointing out that my life is at danger.... I did my homeworks and can manage the risks quite well...

Back to the topic: I also heard that usefructs get more difficult to register in Pattaya, therefore an envelope might be the key...

There is a strong likelihood that this office is so used to getting envelopes to get something which you are legally entitled to get done without any other charge that that set by the government means that it will become common practice to refuse to do something unless an envelope is involved.

I had an usufruct registered at Chiang Mai. At first, the staff said that they couldn't do that day as they were too busy, and then promptly sat down to read their newspaper in front of us (no joke). I was with a local lawyer at the time, but my GF refused to pay anything and after half an hour of us sitting there watching them reading whatever, she went up and kicked up such a fuss that they just went ahead and did it (took all of 5 mins).

I would say that I also wanted to register a mortgage (nothing to stop foreigners lending money to a Thai for the purpose of purchasing a property and registering a charge for the same). The Land Office said that they didn't know how to do (seriously!!). What BS as there were half a dozen banks within 100m of their office who I am sure have mortgages registered there day in and day out. I should have just paid up to be honest, but it was getting late and had had enough BS for the day (and can be registered at a later date anyway) so we just left it (and I had the security of an usufruct as well).

It is worth mentioning that as well as the usufruct you should also get your partner to make a will leaving the property in your name. Even though you are a foreigner, you are entitled to inherit land: you simply have a very short period of time (usually about 6 months from memory) within which to sell on the property (or put in some other Thai person's name). You may also wish to register a mortgage at the same time. Even if you were forced to leave the property as in the above alleged example, you could still enforce the mortgage through a third party (i.e. a lawyer) which gives you a reasonable chance of getting something back from the property.

I set out in an earlier post the benefits of being a monk, even for a short period of time. Of course, for Thais, they don't even have to have this discussion as they don't have the same issues with Buddhism which foreigners do. The fact that there are bad monks (which there are) does not devalue the teachings of the Buddha or the value of ordination generally. Whilst you may not personally wish to ordain only for a short period, there is absolutely no requirement whatsoever in Buddhism for ordination to be for life.

However, please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I completely accept and acknowledge the significant advantages for the serious practitioner in becoming a monk for the remainder of one's life. I would also say that having been a monk myself it has given me an insight into that way of life which I would not (and could not) have experienced had I not ordained (even though I also only ordained for a short period of time).

This is the part which I still don't understand.

You gave a couple of benefits of ordination.

The first was that ordination as a monk provides great merit (boon บุญ in Thai. Full (bhikkhu) ordination as opposed to novice (samanera) ordination provides the greatest merit. Thus, even being a monk for a day provides you with great merit).

Isn't this part of the good luck, merit seeking, superstition side of Buddhism which has no relevance in terms of what the Buddha was teaching?

Isn't this merit restricted to the belief of individuals involved (those who observe & those who ordinate)?

Isn't the true benefit of the Eightfold Path the fruit of practice and not ceremonial regalia, which is all that there would be time for, given the short period Simon can make available?

The second was that becoming a monk for any period of time is "a wonderful experience for someone who is a practicing Buddhist as it provides you with direct experience of the life as a monk. When I was ordained (also for a short period - visa issues in my case being the limitation at the time), I felt a connection to the Buddha himself through the lineage of monks being ordained from the Buddha all the way through to me, which is something that you can only appreciate through direct experience".

Isn't this wonderful experience associated with thoughts and feelings which the Buddha taught needed to be overcome through insight?

Simon would barely learn the routine involved of living with a group of Monks, not to mention coming to terms with the associated customs, rules and environment.

Perhaps this would give Simon a chance to know whether Monkhood is for him, but even this varies depending on the Sangha he associates with.

Another poster was concerned whether he could have coffee, and that this would be a deal breaker.

I'm feeling (bad word-attachment) that if I has personal insight experience, perhaps something that only comes with dedicated time, then the thuoghts associated with environment I'd be thrust in, would be just be another attachment I'd need to shed.

Isn't it much better to focus on what the Buddha taught, a practice which can be followed until the revelation of insights takes hold and creates a natural impetus to further practice?

Such insight could give a non ego based impetus to go to the next step (ordination), which would yield the resource (time) in which to devote oneself to practice.

Perhaps there is another element of your experience.

Respectfully, if you are saying that making merit is simply superstition, then I do think that this is a misunderstanding of Buddhism and particularly the path leading to Nibbana/Nirvana (complete enlightenment). The fact that many people (not just Thais) confuse "making merit" with "making good luck" doesn't devalue "merit", but simply establishes that people are ignorant of the teachings of the Buddha (as indeed one could say that most Christians are ignorant of the teachings of Christ, and so on and so forth with most religions).

As a meditator, one seeks to accumulate sufficient "paramis" (in very simple terms: merit) in order to progress in one's rebirth. Of course, many (almost exclusively Westerners) Buddhists now reject or question rebirth and other phenomenon as supernatural mumbo-jumbo. A well known Western teacher, Stephen Batchelor wrote a book called "Buddhism without Beliefs", which is as it sounds. Personally, I find it difficult for someone to call themselves a "Buddhist" whilst rejecting huge chunks of the Buddha's teachings. Basically, this is a "pick and mix" approach, and is the difference between someone who was fully realised (i.e. the Buddha, which means Awakened one) or someone who just had some useful meditation and stress reduction tips (which is pretty much what his teachings have been diluted for Westerners to accept). For one who is committed to the Buddhist path, rebirth is an important factor and paramis (merit) is important not only for one's rebirth but also progression in meditation. To reject paramis as "superstition" is therefore akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You are conflating several different concepts and then confusing them by talking about the Eightfold path, the fruit of practice and "ceremonial regalia" (although I really don't know what you refer to by the latter frankly as the only ceremonial regalia I received was my robes and my bowl and that was it) being almost mutually exclusive or contradictory. This if I may say so is an incredibly linear and narrow approach to Buddhism and the path one may take as a Buddhist. Please don't confuse what people call "Buddhism" with what is actually Buddhism. This is why there is an issue as people then go on about bad monks and therefore why bother being a monk, and indeed why bother being a Buddhist. Again, baby and bathwater. If this is your path, then you follow your path and let others follow theirs providing that their path does not conflict with yours. After all, Theravadan Buddhist and Mayayanan and Vajrayanan Buddhist all have differeing beliefs. Which could we say is right? Which elements are the Buddha's teachings and which are imagined, invented, exaggerated and so on and so forth. We cannot do so, but what we can do is follow the teachings and apply them and see what effect and impact they have.

If one is given a scientific formula as a layperson, one cannot honestly comment or question it as really one has no idea as to the truth of what is being said. If we study and practice that discipline, then at some point, we have understanding ourselves as the truth (or otherwise) of the statement being made. The problem with society today is that with Google, we are all instant experts. A person attends two meditation retreats, and becomes an expert on meditation for the person who has done one (or none). This is the way of the world, but we should try to resist the temptation (not easy, as of course, all of our egos are so developed!!!).

Again, you talk about Simon not having time to really integrate into the monk's life. As I have mentioned in several posts now, this is with respect completely missing the point of ordaining for a short period of time, which is not necessarily about being an internship for a lifetime as a monk, but for personal reasons. One could equally say that why you waste time attending a 10 day meditation retreat as really, one cannot get very far in 10 days, so why bother at all? Of course, so many people say what a profound experience even such a short time (or shorter) has had on them, and inspired them to pursue meditation further and equally being a monk even for a short time has value in terms of one's experience and understanding. It is not the same (nor is it intended to be the same) as living the life of a monk for an extended period of time. That does not devalue the former though.

I also mentioned that as a long-term resident in Thailand, there is value culturally in having ordained. Another very small tick in the box for acceptance as not being simply another culturally ignorant farang which they often see us as being (I live in Chiang Mai, and almost weekly, there is some upset over tourists, or even short-term residents who wander round temples in bikini tops and hotpants etc - I am not a prude by the way, but what is OK for the beach isn't OK for the temples just as a matter of common sense). It isn't a valid reason in itself just to tick a box of course, but I am just mentioning it as one of a multitude of reasons why I believe that it is a valuable thing to ordain even for a short period of time.

Ultimately, there is the issue which has been alluded to by a number of posters which is that if the OP/Simon wishes to ordain for even a short period of time, that is decision which is personal to him, why should others be so negative about it (and to be honest, it would appear that not a single person who has commented against short-term ordination has actually ordained). If what he suggests does not suit you, and you would rather practice outside of the robes (as I currently do) then that is fine and an individual choice. I have no problem if you do not wish to ordain so why is there a problem the other way around. This is not an either/or situation. You can ordain and not follow the Buddhist precepts and teachings (e.g. the bad monks who get wasted, visit hookers, gamble etc) or you can be a layperson and follow very sincerely. It is not exclusive or inclusive either way. Follow your own path.

Regards

Wat Suan Mokh have a programme for foreigners which runs for 10 days from the 1st of every month. If the OP can speak good Thai, then obviously that would be another option. Geographically, it is of course quite close to Phuket.

It is worth mentioning that WSM teach Anapanasati (mindfulness of breathing in simple terms). This is quite different from the techniques taught on a Vipassana course. Within Vipassana, it is also worth noting that the Goenka method is quite different from the Mahasi method. Some people may attend one course and be put off meditation as the method did not suit them. Do not be put off: if you find that one particular method does not resonate with you or suit your personality, characteristics or tendencies, do not be put off: one size does not fit all, and simply try another until you find one that does suit.

Not wishing to digress, I was hoping you could briefly indicate the difference between Anapanasiti (Mindfulness of breathing) and the usual Vipassana teaching?

I was interested as to the reason for Simons desire to be a Monk for such a short period.

Whilst it maybe true that ones experience in robes might be markedly different in comparison to a Retreat experience, for a period of a week or two, isn't such experience of the ego and diverges from ones aim of shedding conditioning?

Isn't the main benefit of Monkhood an opportunity to devote ones life towards full time practice?

The downside being that a significant number of Sanghas are filled with travelers who not only have little knowledge of the 4 Noble Truths & Eightfold Path, but who also have little resolve towards genuine practice?

For this reason and due to the short term involved, without knowledge of Simons reasons/aims, I feel a Retreat dedicated to quality instruction and conducive environment for practice, would be more fruitful than going through induction Rituals for a life which is meant to be for life.

I can personally vouch for the Wat Suan Mokkh International Retreat.

10 days every month beginning on the first of each month.

Arrive the afternoon before the 1st of the month.

Leave in the morning of the 11th day (no early departures).

As you've highlighted teaching differences (Vipassana vs Anapanasiti & others) I was interested in their differences and how this could affect Simons experience.

I set out in an earlier post the benefits of being a monk, even for a short period of time. Of course, for Thais, they don't even have to have this discussion as they don't have the same issues with Buddhism which foreigners do. The fact that there are bad monks (which there are) does not devalue the teachings of the Buddha or the value of ordination generally. Whilst you may not personally wish to ordain only for a short period, there is absolutely no requirement whatsoever in Buddhism for ordination to be for life.

However, please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I completely accept and acknowledge the significant advantages for the serious practitioner in becoming a monk for the remainder of one's life. I would also say that having been a monk myself it has given me an insight into that way of life which I would not (and could not) have experienced had I not ordained (even though I also only ordained for a short period of time).

As for meditation, there are two main paths: Samatha meditation (as taught at WSM for example) and usually referred to in English as concentration or tranquillity meditation, and Vipassana meditation, which is usually referred to in English as Insight Meditation (and as taught by pretty much every other monastery in Thailand other than WSM and a very small handful of others).

Samatha is fairly straightforward in that one pretty much just focuses on the breath going in and out. The real differences in Samatha practice tend to come with the more advanced techniques.

Vipassana techniques are far more varied and gets into a quite involved discussion way beyond the scope of a Thaivisa.com thread. Vipassana schools will also teach Samatha techniques as a precursor to the Vipassana practice, but only as an introduction (e.g. commonly only a few minutes of Samatha practice/technique before progressing to Vipassana practice/techniques)

The following give some overviews of Samatha and Vipassana practice and their purpose etc.

http://www.tbsa.org/articles/questionsandanswers.htm

http://www.buddhanet.net/vmed_1.htm

http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books9/Ajahn_Brahm_Samatha_Meditation.htm

If you can speak Thai, i suggest Wat Suan Mokkh - main monastery in Chaiya, Thailand.

http://www.bia.or.th/en/index.php/2013-10-23-08-11-05/2013-10-23-08-17-39

Yes.

Wat Suan Mokh have a programme for foreigners which runs for 10 days from the 1st of every month. If the OP can speak good Thai, then obviously that would be another option. Geographically, it is of course quite close to Phuket.

It is worth mentioning that WSM teach Anapanasati (mindfulness of breathing in simple terms). This is quite different from the techniques taught on a Vipassana course. Within Vipassana, it is also worth noting that the Goenka method is quite different from the Mahasi method. Some people may attend one course and be put off meditation as the method did not suit them. Do not be put off: if you find that one particular method does not resonate with you or suit your personality, characteristics or tendencies, do not be put off: one size does not fit all, and simply try another until you find one that does suit.

As a matter of fact family and temple would hold a big party for you.

This is definitely what I do not want...

Yes, I'm very much aware of the 2 weeks that Thai men spend in a temple.

Lol, I recall my Thai ex-wife spending 150,000 baht some years ago on a lavish party for her toyboy when he went to stay in the temple for a couple of weeks.

I don't need any of that - I have no close family now - this is something for me to do privately.

I appreciate if you can PM me with any useful information. Thanks.

I would find a temple in an area where you would like to stay and contact them, best way to find out.

As for the party thing I was knocked over when my wifes cousin did this. They live next door to us. He shaved his head and they had a big party.

His dad is a principle at a school and his dad is also an announcer at fights so is well known. I would say about 100 people of so came to the party. Lasted all day and most of the night.

You know the typically Thai thing, big stage setup, band girls etc. I'm coming home from work about 2 weeks later and see him on jeans on the front proch. I was thinking holy shit

did he get thrown out? I go in and speak to my wife and she said yes he was only going to 14 days. I couldn't believe the big party for only 14 days I was thinking he was going to 1 year

or something like that. Just crazy, I guess any excuse for a party.

Anyway good luck to you, hope you have a good experience and learn something while there.

The builders at my house didn't turn up one morning to finish a job. My GF called them and asked what had happened: they were all hung-over from celebrating after a family member became a monk!!! Getting wasted to celebrate someone ordaining does rather miss the whole point of the ceremony, but as you say, for many people, any excuse for a p*** up. It is a shame that they don't instead all engage in a few days meditation, which would do a lot more for harmony in the country and individual self-development but anyway. It would also keep quite a few drunk drivers off the road as a further benefit!!

:-)