ManofReason

Yet another Thai learning that actions have consequences.

Think about what you have just said...!! You are advocating bombings of even those who are not directly involved in any of the current mess.

I don't know who you are a reincarnation of (possible Jacksh1t, who went missing some weeks ago) but you are treading on dangerous ground here.

Most of us here are able to adopt a mature, balanced perspective of the current situation in Thailand; we do not need extremists in our midst...!!

I'm not advocating anything, it's false of you to suggest that I am.

I am stating what is common knowledge.

Actions have consequences.

I have voiced neither approval or disapproval of either the actions or the consequences in the referenced situation.

Nobody operates in a vacuum, what we do affects others which in turn affects the way they act towards us.

In life the best course of action is to follow the golden rule i.e. Do unto others as you wish them to do unto you.

Blowing whistles in someones ear or firing a rifle hidden within a popcorn bag is going to provoke a response that you will be, at the very least, partially responsible for.

I'm sorry, but your post was in response to the shooting and grenade attacks on the home of a demonstrator, as well as the home and private school of the demonstrator's mother, to which you commented "actions have consequences".

And whilst trying to deny that you are advocating such violence, you still seem to believe that the same response is to be expected for blowing a whistle or firing a rifle...?!

You really do need to gain some perspective in your personal thought process before spouting off the way that you are currently demonstrating.

You are again incorrect.

I did not state that the "same" response is to be expected for blowing a whistle or firing a rifle.

I simply stated that "a" response, for which you would at the very least be partially responsible for, is to be expected.

Please try and stick to facts.

The question is this - which is more intimidating - whistles or bombs ? Someone or some persons seem to think it's bombs. One thing is for sure, it has sparked a series of outraged responses. But this is not only just any kind of outrage. It is more akin to a mental imbalance. What inspired it ? The image of a centi-millionaire being whistled at. That was it. But for one or more people that was clearly more than enough. Thaksin's lawyer immediately lodged an international statement of outrage at the incident, saying that Thaksin's ex-wife was being pursued by the " elite ". One is not quite sure what he meant by the word elite, except that it clearly must include people who are somewhat shy of being a centi-millionaire. But what puts people over the top - what sends them into a psychotic state ? Whistles ? And if so, exactly what would be behind that kind of imbalance of mind ? Just how fragile can egos be ? Perhaps the fragility of the egos are measured by the ferocity, irrationality, and unbalanced nature of the response.

First time I've ever heard centi- millionaire.

You may have just coined a phrase.

Yet another Thai learning that actions have consequences.

Think about what you have just said...!! You are advocating bombings of even those who are not directly involved in any of the current mess.

I don't know who you are a reincarnation of (possible Jacksh1t, who went missing some weeks ago) but you are treading on dangerous ground here.

Most of us here are able to adopt a mature, balanced perspective of the current situation in Thailand; we do not need extremists in our midst...!!

I'm not advocating anything, it's false of you to suggest that I am.

I am stating what is common knowledge.

Actions have consequences.

I have voiced neither approval or disapproval of either the actions or the consequences in the referenced situation.

Nobody operates in a vacuum, what we do affects others which in turn affects the way they act towards us.

In life the best course of action is to follow the golden rule i.e. Do unto others as you wish them to do unto you.

Blowing whistles in someones ear or firing a rifle hidden within a popcorn bag is going to provoke a response that you will be, at the very least, partially responsible for.

I am totally at a lost here, in terms of the actions of the military. Suthep has been making daily speech about overthrowing a duly elected government and encourage his followers to kidnap and take any government officials hostage and it seems no legal problem with this. On the other hand, some small groups are speaking and wishing to be separated from BKK and the military jumps in to make things seem like they are traitors. Obviously, the military is on the side of the Yellow Shirts.

Would you please desist from pointing out the obvious and stating facts, it will upset the delusional amongst us.

Clearly she is the best premier the nation has ever had.

I never realised the bar was set that low.

Decades of unelected dictators tends to have an adverse effect on the quality of political leadership.

But don't worry too much, ever since 2001 things have been on the way up.

my god, is this woman serious, she wants the army bunkers to have pink cutains and soldiers to not carry weapons, what a wacko. I can see it now, the reds attack the army and they throw flowers at them in defence while the reds blow them away with the weapons yl takes away from the army.

Someone needs to stop this woman before she totally screws the country, sorry, she has already done that, make that, someone needs to stop here before she turns everyone into "pretties" like her.

FACT CHECK

Yingluck did not mention anything about pink curtains.

The General did.

Yinglucks' refusal to openly speak out against the red shirt individuals or groups who promote secession, is quite amazing.

Such a blatant rejection of the crown....and with serious penalties to guilty offenders...it is clearly totally irresponsible of her and an utter embarrassment for the country.

ChrisY1, geezzz man you really do like to push your agenda don't ya, Y/L has on several ocasions said publiclly that she supports a compleate Thailand and called on not to promot any seperation of the country, SO

AIT, you provide us with yet another example of the typical spin by a Red Shirt apologist; she said nothing until it became clear that there was insufficient support for the call for secession, some five days after we saw the banners flying in Chiang Mai ... where she was actually located at the time...!!

What she has done since then is nothing more than back-pedalling, so don't try to make out that she is the poor little innocent caught in the middle of this...!

"she said nothing until it was clear that there was insufficient support for the call"

Suthep has had insufficient support for 3 and a half months now - still no word from him.

Why not red, blue and white... or red, green and yellow

More importantly, no one has mentioned the breach of the Geneva Conventions with the misuse of the Red Cross emblem in the second photograph of this posting.

Can't imagine The Thai Red Cross Society being active in protecting the emblem any time soon.....

The green and yellow colour combination is being kept for the next elite backed anti-democratic movement.

They will be known as PDCAFAFEITLOS

Popcorners Democratic Council Against Free And Fair Elections In The Land Of Smiles

Australia deports aliens who protest, spit or curse.

In days gone by that would have been a pre requisite for entry.

Our "unique" ancestry cannot be denied.

First I read Satish has lived in Thailand for 50 years. Now it's 65 years. When it becomes 150 years I'm going to start disbelieveing his position.

Blaming the bad reporting. He didn't write the articles you read.

Good chance he lied to the reporters though.

Clearly she is the best premier the nation has ever had.

Just slightly edging out Thaksin for first place.

Way to go babe.

What an angel.

Keep it up.

I would be surprised if the PTP and UDD had not lost significant membership due to the following:

Amnesty bill

Cheating on legislation

Cheating on voting in the house

Rice scheme

Non payment of farmers

Secession

Whether those voters become disillusioned and either give up voting altogether or become perennial"No" voters will largely depend on how the dems present themselves and their policies at the next election and who is in charge of them

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I give the electorate enough credit to be able to separate fact from fiction.

Yellow fiction.

Whatever the current support levels for PTP, one thing is clear, it still far exceeds that of the Democrats and the PDRC street rabble.

Personally, I think the current illegal mini mobs actions have strengthened and united the forces of good in this land which will most likely lead to an ever greater level support for PTP into the future.

Blah, blah, blah..... Whatever the current support levels for PTP, one thing is clear, it still far exceeds that of the Democrats and the PDRC street rabble

How is this clear? From election figures where the Dems didn't participate? From PDRC figures where it will never participate?

Half the PTP votes from 2011. Fact

The most obvious sign that it is clear is the absolute terror the thought of contesting an election instills in the Democrats. If the Dems actually thought they could win they would be demanding an election. They are not because they know what the result would be.

When you are unloved and unsupported like the Dems, it's better to try any and all backdoor, illegal avenues to power because elections aren't going to give you what you want.

For all its' imperfections, especially in Thailand, elections are still the best vehicle whereby to choose who governs the country.....And the electoral majority knows it.

The level of apathy shown at the recent elections is a clear indicator that most of the electorate no longer gives a toss.

Only the staunch supporters of either side are being vocal, and neither could claim to be a majority.

2011 election had a 75% turnout - that is quite high.

2014 election = much less, but what do you do when one side doesn't show up.

My guess is that most of the electorate would like to put this thing to bed by having a properly contested election where all party's accept the outcome as soon as possible.

It's quite clear which tiny minority are preventing this from happening and why.

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How about dealing with calls for overthrow of a sitting government by groups in Bangkok?

The article is about secession calls by red shirt individuals or groups...!

One of the reasons that they said they wanted secession was that they felt the courts were handing down rulings in favour of the protesters (e.g. that they were "not trying to overthrow the government" and that they were "nonviolent").

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They are trying to overthrow this corrupt govt. Nobody is denying that. They do so nonviolent. The rulings of the courts are not done in favour with the anti govt demonstrations, but in line with the law, and the law is something the average UDD red shirt has difficulties with. They really thought that once they were in power they could do whatever they wanted, because they were elected in to govt after all. That is the distorted red shirt form of democracy. Any foreigner with a bit brains, and a good understanding of Thai politics understands this....

1. This allegedly corrupt government. I can baselessly accuse Suthep of being honest. Just because I make the allegation - doesn't mean it's true.

2. They do so non-violently (umm...popcorners and the police discovery of PDRC guards weapons caches puts paid to the supposed non-violence).

3. One of the main reasons Thailand sits so lowly in global corruption rankings is the ongoing corruption of the nations judiciary (corruption is not just about money - ask the Red Bull kid)

4. The mini mob in the street trying to overthrow the legitimate government appear to be the ones at odds with and having difficulty with the law.

5. The Reds were wrong on one front, they really thought that once they were in governemnt they would be able to do what they had been elected to do without an illegal insurrection by a bunch of yellow crims.

Foreign governments from Asean across the Pacific to the Americas on to the European Union know the current conflicts of Thailand center on the colony provinces asserting their just demands to be included in the wealth, growth and development of the country, and that the established oligarchs that control the economy and the feudal society refuse to accept any such inclusiveness, peace, prosperity.

Foreign governments know the constitution was written arbitrarily and absolutely by the 2007 coup leaders and presented to the general population by military command of the coup government absent any possibility to be amended, and granted immunity to the chronic military mutineers and their appointed underlings in the various bodies of the coup government created by the coup makers.

Foreign governments know the Suthep insurrectionists and their backers want to extend feudalism into the 21st century by forcibly cancelling elections and parliamentary democracy in favor of a still anonymous "People's Council" appointed by the feudal oligarchs to write and implement severe reductions of democracy by mangling the 1 person 1 vote democratic principle, that the street mobs of the oligarchs used violence to try to kill the election and that the Democrat Party and its leader Abhisit played a major role in jeopardizing democracy and Thailand's democratic future.

Foreign governments know the censorship of Thailand and that the struggle presently occurring is all about matters that cannot publically be discussed in the country, which among other factors is the major reason an international mediator won't come near the crisis created by Thais that cannot be resolved by Thais.

Foreign governments know the bizarre logic and thinking in Thailand that two wrongs make a right and that five wrongs make it even more right, as your post testifies and which is why Kuhn Surapong has a sympathetic and understanding international audience. The forces of Suthep, Abhisit, the bureaucracy, the military, the MSM in Thailand fear Surapong's contact with the international community which is why the posts to this thread against him are vitriolic or try to misrepresent the actual issues and conflict.

"Foreign governments know the constitution was written arbitrarily and absolutely by the 2007 coup leaders"

It seems that YOU don't know that the 2007 constitution was mostly written by "the people" in 1997. I would guess that the foreign governments DO know that.

Seriously which people?

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The 1997 constitution is known as "the people's" constitution. The 2007 constitution in 90% the same word for word.

1. Suthep is wise, honest and popular.

2. Suthep is not wise, honest and popular.

The second statement is 90% the same, word for word, as the first.

There is, I believe, a slight flaw in the argument you have put forward. Wouldn't you agree?

Australia deports aliens who protest, spit or curse. Why shouldn't Thailand?

I see everyone complaining that laws aren't followed in Thailand but then they complain that someone who broke the law should not be prosecuted according to the law. So what is it, follow the law or not? Or only selective following of the law?

I'm not sure you'll fit in here.

Too much common sense in your post.

As far as I'm aware the majority of Bangkokians are currently not located within the boundaries of Lumpini Park.

PDRC is a minority movement.

One need only recall the string of election losses or to witness how they run and hide from current elections to see this fact.

A list of policies you disagree with is put forward as a reason to overthrow the legal government of the day.... abysmal indeed.

You may have forgotten, so let remind you - Suthep is OPPOSED to any elections occurring at any time, ever.

He wants an appointed council - his position is no negotiations and no elections.

The logic of this mini mob beguiles me. "We are the majority but we are scared of elections".

"Suthep is OPPOSED to any elections occurring at any time, ever."

Well, that's a lie.

Well...no it's not.

Again you repeat that the Thai voters can't be trusted, not because they're stupid but because they're too hungry (first time I've ever heard this silliness).

I didn't say I didn't trust them. What I said was that maybe if you are relatively poor, ethics might not be the deciding factor of what swings you to vote for one party over another... and so, your solution to the problem of the government controlling the judiciary and making it one sided against opposition, being that the people will vote them out if they do that, might not work at all. And then what?

But I get it. In your book, that's all well and good, because you can call it a non independent judiciary that is the will of the people, and that makes it all ok. Everything is ok by you if you can contrive it to have been by "the will of the people". Exactly the same argument we saw following the appalling war on drugs. Hundreds of innocent lives lost, but that's ok, "the people were happy with it".

You seemed to have avoided responding to the majority of the content my last post - I wonder why that would be.

Try and spin it however you want - you support a system whereby (for whatever reason you wish to give) Thai voters cannot choose their own government. If that is the system you want then you should follow the British example of their upper house - unelected politicians are just advisers and are to hold no powers.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it does not make it true. Why state things that are completely incorrect over and over, your lack of knowledge makes you look foolish and impresses no one but yourself and those equally unknowing. The HoL has much the same powers as Senate, with Representatives being similar to the Commons. Other than the fact that the Senate also does a lot of hiring and firing of judges and other federal positions, their roles are very similar - it is the Common that creates Bills just as it is Commons that does in the UK.

Please refer to the previous response re: the powerlessness of the HoL.

Humble pie on the menu today.

Would that indicate now is the opportune time for an election by the anti government forces, it sure seem like the PM and PTP do not enjoy the political following they had, if you pay attention to the nay sayers.

Yet the anti government folks are still against an election, which they believe they will lose, as they still are the Thai minority!

Cheers

So . . . you've gone from claiming a majority for PT to a minority for the Dems . . . love how you spin lol

Right now, I would have said the "majority" are disillusioned with ALL sides.

I don't think you've understood the post you replied to.

Let me help you.

The OP is simply highlighting that if the Democrats truly believed that the Reds no longer command a majority of support (as the naysayers claim) then they should strike while the iron is hot, contest an election, win and form government. The reality is that the Democrats know the Reds are still a majority and this is why they continue to run away and hide from elections

As for "the majority are disillusioned". Having given up on the Democrats actually gaining supporters you are now reduced to trying to spin that the Reds have lost support not to the Democrats, but to the disillusioned camp.

Could this be true?

If only there were some way to work out what the people of a nation actually want.

I know. How about elections?

I wonder if a free and fair election could provide the answer to our quandary?

It's taken how many months for someone to come up with this?

Did they think that this "political impasse" could be solved any other way?

Proper negotiations between all parties and all people involved is the ONLY way this country is going to properly reform. Was that a secret?

The only solution is for the one side that continues to break the law and deny the outcome of legitimate elections to cease and desist with their crimes, and respect the will of the people.

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ManofReason, on 07 Mar 2014 - 08:06, said:

whybother, on 07 Mar 2014 - 07:51, said:

Can the mods just close and delete this thread now?

Seriously, this is just a waste of everyone's time.

Sent from my phone ...

I say keep the thread.

Come the next election the Democrats will get crushed (for the seventh time in a row) by PTP's overwhelming popularity.

Why not let the Yellow minority enjoy 5 minutes of popularity (even if it is imaginary)

And the protests will continue, regardless of who wins , kick both out and appoint a independent parliament. Start again you are both as bad as each other.

The current protest is a last stand, the death rattle of the dying Yellow insurrection. So don't be too concerned, the decade long series of protests are nearly over, the rout is almost complete.

So, there is no need for an "independent" (by which I assume you mean unelected) parliament, the people of the nation are more than capable of electing their own government and will shortly do so.

It is a fact, a non debatable fact, that the 2007 constitution referendum was neither free nor fair. [/font][/size]

Continued refusal to acknowledge and accept facts renders debate and discussion pointless.

The referendum wasn't totally free and fair, but at least there was one. And how many elections in Thailand are free and fair? At least with the referendum, each voter's choice wasn't helped determined by whether or not they wanted a free tablet for their child, or by which politician handed them the most generous bribe.

You can't have it both ways. Either Thai elections are accepted with acknowledgment of their flaws, or they are not. You can't cherry pick the ones you accept just because you like their outcomes.

The past 5 (soon to be 6) Red victories in general elections were achieved in generally free and fair elections. That is to say that anything that took place outside the rules (by either side) was not significant enough to have altered the outcome - this fact is unanimously accepted by the international community.

The 2007 referendum was a farce.

Elections and Yellows clearly don't mix.

They are a minority movement who, for the past decade, have had one single unequivocal aim - to deny democracy in Thailand.

Well, that isn't entirely true at all,

What isn't?

That the House of Lords can sway the House of Commons from controversial legislation, and I sited the Poll tax as an example.

I said that it could sway it from doing anything stupid and that generally the system worked well. Don't think the Poll tax particularly contradicts that statement. I'm not arguing the system is perfect. Far from it. Just that for the most part, it works well enough.

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So why are the Poms changing it?

I would be surprised if the PTP and UDD had not lost significant membership due to the following:

Amnesty bill

Cheating on legislation

Cheating on voting in the house

Rice scheme

Non payment of farmers

Secession

Whether those voters become disillusioned and either give up voting altogether or become perennial"No" voters will largely depend on how the dems present themselves and their policies at the next election and who is in charge of them

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I give the electorate enough credit to be able to separate fact from fiction.

Yellow fiction.

Whatever the current support levels for PTP, one thing is clear, it still far exceeds that of the Democrats and the PDRC street rabble.

Personally, I think the current illegal mini mobs actions have strengthened and united the forces of good in this land which will most likely lead to an ever greater level support for PTP into the future.