sambum

33 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

That’s another thing and I have literally been meaning to say this for a while, maybe if us foreigners would stop referring to him as the “big joke” and start referring to him by his name and treat him with respect than maybe we would receive mutual respect from him we are guests in their country.  I think I remember the history of how he got that nickname from the Chinese tourists or something and originally it was innocent I believe something to do with the soup I believe or something like that I don’t recall.  But now us English speakers are calling him by that name and he knows damn well what we mean, basically we are calling him an idiot and people in the expat community need to STOP calling him the “big joke” and treat the man respectfully and then maybe he would be more friendly to foreigners.  Or maybe not but we need to treat the guy with respect especially now that he controls Immigration.  Technically calling him the “big joke” could be considered defamation which is a criminal offense in Thailand especially if it’s against a government official as he is.  People gotta start acting like guests here because that’s what we are.  

 

Additionally I’ve confirmed from a very reliable source that immigration has not made any announcements regarding visas except for criminal crackdowns.  I have no problem with criminal crackdowns because they ruin it for the rest of us who live here legally.  So what you said about the possible curtailment of visas via marriage is just yet more speculation and rumor because immigration has not said anything about that at all.  Currently it’s just a British Embassy issue and that’s it that’s a fact like it or not.  

 

I gotta stop reading all this garbage there’s only one person on this site who puts out reliable information that I honestly trust to tell the truth.  I’ve been getting good immigration, visa, and extension information from him for years but I don’t want to mention his name but he’s right about 99.9% of the time and he does not share your opinion.  Whenever I have a concern I ask him and he goes by the facts and the actual local Thai immigration laws and regulations.  He’s been living here for several years longer than me and he’s my only trusted source of information on this website.  

Apparently his nickname was started off in the Thai media, so "us foreigners" are not to blame!

This is the first I've heard about curtailment of Visas via marriage, and coming from the source it did I am not surprised!

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Yes but isn't the fact that you make a signed application  to have this information verified for release to Thai authorities a de facto permission to release the information limited by the scope of the application? absolving then from the limitations imposed upon them by the Data Protection Act. 

"verified" being what the fuss is all about!

31 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I am not trying to be a smart ass, I simply don't know.

But Don't British citizens who receive income from Britain file a tax return? or online  portals  where individual benefits are listed?

I am American , I can log on to my social security page and review my income for the past year and estimated benefits,I assume when I start collecting SS benefits the same will be reflected there, also my trade union website reflects my monthly pension benefits, 

Why can't the certifying agency (in this case the embassy) log on to these portals and verify income info? (assuming such portals exist for british citizens)

Data Protection Act

6 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I never been a snitch and i always says fair play to anyone that can stay Thailand long term using any means.

But some other people have to do a lot more, spend a lot more time and money in travel and doing other things just so they can to stay legal.

 

Not meaning to sound smug at all but explain like in this situation..

 

guys who stayed here (in past) upto 20 years on overtsay.

simply pay 20k at the airport and turn around and come back in. easy to do back then withoht lift a finger to do the right thing!

 

Then others (yes, us who are all tingtong) meanwhile been paying a lot of money, spending time visa runs, go flights back home, doing all to fitting the requirement of the way to be legal.

 

its a bit like the others who are always skirting around Thai laws. 

hear them skite THEY own land company houses and business in Thailand who are the big boss that employs Thais.

 

then when the law bites the สrse they will lash out at others who and say they been scammed!

 

 

 

I never been a snitch and i always says fair play to anyone that can stay Thailand long term using any means.

Including "illegal"?

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

The blame is on the British Embassy otherwise every other embassy would be doing the same thing and they are not. I can still get my Stat Dec done at the Australian Embassy and they have no plans to change things Nothing has changed with the Thai Immigration Act.

I said that the British Embassy is "hugely to blame" for the way they are handling the affair, but that the Thai Immigration caused the problem by asking the British Embassy to do something that they are now not legally allowed to do i.e. access somebody's financial records. I agree that nothing has changed with the Thai Immigration Act - what has changed is the way that they are now implementing it. For years they accepted without question the Proof of Income letter - now they are asking the Embassy to do something unlawful.

See my earlier post #270 for additional comments, but do not think for one minute that I think that the British Embassy is doing the right thing by withdrawing this service!

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I agree and there is always the possibility of using a general Embassy Affidavit- hand write in a statement indicating you are declaring xxx amount and the source and asking your Embassy to notarize it.  I can't see how any Embassy would refuse a notarization.  I have done this several times when I have need a notarize letter sent for Revenue Department (IRS); Child Support etc. Always accepted everywhere. Now whether the Thai Imm would accept it-in lieu of the pre printed form is unknown.

Good point, and one that should be looked at. It is similar to the American system in that the applicant is putting his name to it, and not just an Embassy official saying that the applicant has given him details of his income!

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And so assuming your speculation that Thai Immigration is really behind this is correct, how would that explain NONE of the many other embassies thus far saying anything about needing to make the kind of changes the BE is doing? And in fact, other embassies publicly saying they will continue as they have all along....  It makes no sense.

 

Because, as already stated, other Embassies have not been asked to verify the information!

For instance, (As far as I know) the American system involves the applicant signing the letter and swearing under oath that the details are correct - the British letter is not signed by the applicant, it is signed by a member of the Embassy staff to say that the applicant has given them proof of income of XXXXXX British pounds per year (which has to be the equivalent of 65,000 baht a month, or 800,000 baht a year)

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Since when does one government tell another government what they have to do.  They might ASK them to do it but the UK is a sovereign country and they have chosen to 'throw out the baby with the bath water'.  They are using this request as an excuse to stop providing this letter for their citizens as they can save money by not doing it. It's quite clear from the interview.

 

As an American what I resent is the BE attempting to say that Americans are also affected.  Really-  The Us Embassy may have been  asked the same  of the Thai Imm but the US has responded to its citizens by stating the letter will continue for the foreseeable future while the issue is being studied.

 

The BE Embassy is also attempting to tell the Thai Imm what they should accept from  applicants which is very narrow and shows a complete lack of understanding the Thai Imm Act of 1979 and the Police Order of 2014.  They should be asking the Thai Imm office to accept a verity of documentation  to prove monthly income rather than trying to force Thai Imm to have people transfer funds to a Thai bank account on a monthly basis.  The Thai police order even now doesn't say that  with or without an Embassy letter.

 

If as British subjects- you agree with your Embassies actions- that is of course your prerogative. I and other Nationalities as well as some British  citizens  have differing viewpoints.

"the US has responded to its citizens by stating the letter will continue for the foreseeable future while the issue is being studied."

For once, a sensible response to the problem.

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes but it was/is a long established system that satisfied everyone involved, until someone started causing problems lately.

 

Thai Immigration got the income certifications they wanted, all nice and stamped by the various Embassies. The Embassies got their nice fees, and supported their citizens in the process. And all of us have been able to obtain our extensions every year and stay in the country.

 

So just who was it in this case who dumped their stinky c**p on our nice clean new white carpet?

 

Possibly the new boss of Thai Immigration, but doubtful as the Embassy has known about the change since MAY!

Most people seem to be laying all the blame on the Embassy, but it is Thai Immigration that "dumped their stinky c**p on our nice clean new white carpet?" by asking that the financial information given to them to support the application had to be verified - apparently a fairly new amendment to the Data Protection Act will not allow them to do that.

However, the Embassy are hugely to blame for the way that they are handling the matter, and I do not think they realise the implications for many of us who 

13 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

A problem that I also have

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

A problem that I also have

DELETED  -  DUPLICATED

8 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

May be when these old men will leave the country, genuine tourist will start going to the bars just like any other countries. Many people don't like to go to a bar where mostly old people ogling young girls over a bottle of beer. 

Anybody tell you it's "Low Season" hence no/few tourists, or have you been listening to TAT again?

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

As I mentioned-  when they say they are studying the issue- this is diplomatic speak for not making any decision.  In the meantime- keep getting the income letters.  Now up to the Thai Immi they want added documentation.

 

The Us Embassy is not going to change the way it issues a sworn affidavit-  You make your statement- take an Oath-it is true under penalty of perjury- the Consul checks your identity- signs the form- puts the official Embassy Seal on it with date and time.

 

The income Affidavit is not the only Affidavit that is issued.  I have gotten Affidavits for IRS; Child Support etc and all have worked exactly the same way.  No Embassy can verify each bit of info being attested to- their function is as a Notary in the same manner a notarization would be used in the US say for a bank loan; a house mortgage or other.

 

If I had to venture a guess- the Affidavit will still be available at the US Embassy.

I do hope you are right, because otherwise there will be a lot of people headed back to the good ol' US of A (or elsewhere!) when Thai Immigration says that it wants the information verified!!!

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I sure you are correct, but anything is better than sitting on backsides and twiddling thumbs, full kudos to the people that are being pro-active. If you don't try, you don't get.

Exactly - if everybody had the same negative attitude as the poster you replied to, then there would never be any change - good or bad!

The same applies to the people who complain endlessly about Government policy and don't vote - using the excuse that they're all in it just to line their own pockets.

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is about time that you Brits got off your ass and did something; your outrage has been palpable but your actions nil.

 

I would also organize an direct e-mail to your respective members of Parliament; it isn't hard to find their addresses in these modern days. I know for a fact that every letter sent to an MP is logged and (usually) responded to; your taxes pay for them, give them a kick!

 

If you are not happy, and there are several thousand of you (?), then a campaign via the Web is useful and doable. Put up or shut up.

 

Give' em hell, Brits

 

I think you will find that quite a number of people have already done just that, but they are not going to come on TV to specifically let you know what they have done!

5 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

My thoughts are that the Embassies should provide them, but only to those who can provide actual proof of their income.  I can't speak for any Brits, but I know a couple of Americans who get the Income Verification from the U.S. Consulate here in Chiang Mai, who do not meet the financial requirements. And this is what Immigration wants to eliminate. If you're legal, no problem.  If you're not, your out of here, as it should be. 

 

Sorry to have to repeat what has already been stated on here many times, but Brits do have to provide proof of their income by means of Bank Statements etc. The Americans (As far as I know)  merely put their hands on their hearts, say "Honestly", sign a bit of paper and get their Income Verification, which at the moment is accepted by Thai Immigration. It would appear that Immigration are going after the smaller fish first to test the waters!

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

I am aware of that, but you have slightly missed my point - the Thais have told the BE that the embassy letter as it stands is not good enough without proper verification of documents presented to obtain it, and thus if the Thais have told the BE that any application with the embassy letter will either lead to a rejection of an application to extend, or will require presentation of the supporting documents to the Thais, it renders the embassy letter useless either way.

"without proper verification of documents presented to obtain it"

This statement is what is at the heart of the matter. The Embassy are saying that they do not have the manpower or the time to physically check all the documents presented to them as Proof of Income.

Would one way round this not be to to ask the applicant to also provide the Embassy with a signed and dated letter from the Pension provider, or Bank or Funds provider to verify that the details are correct? I realise that photocopies of Bank statements etc are difficult to replicate anyway, but surely a signed and dated letter in addition to original documents would be enough to satisfy Immigration (knowing how much they like paperwork!) In this way, the Embassy could say that they have made arrangements to have the documents verified in that respect, (at no extra cost or use of time by themselves) The only other hurdle as far as I understand it, is the onus of responsibility, and in all fairness, the Embassy could say that they have done all in their power to ensure that the details are correct (not just accept photocopies at face value etc) and if the Thai Immigration are not prepared to accept that, it would appear that they are asking the British Embassy to be responsible for all the behaviour of all of its citizens - an impossible task!

41 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Pensioners keeping Thailand afloat during the low season??!!

What colour is the sky on your planet?

If you're going to quote somebody - do it properly!

The post states "HELPS keep Thailand afloat during the low season" - see my earlier post for more details!

"The cops contacted the tech experts on the force who discovered the website is based in Germany and efforts were made to have the profile removed. 

They said that people creating such profiles could face two months in jail and fines of 200,000 baht." 

At least they didn't say it all in the same paragraph! 

4 minutes ago, balo said:

And then out for a swim .  I think the autopsy will reveal drugs . 

Whatever gives you that idea?

3 hours ago, blackhorse said:

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

Well I'd certainly be happy with that but I don't think that the British Embassy would. It would defeat the object of the exercise.

There superiority complex would have them believe the lowly thais would never challenge them.

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

What is a POA/POI motorization? What nationality are you?

FYI you have just touched upon one of my pet hates!

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's an easy one. No! If they switch to a system of required monthly transfers to do an income method application there is no way there would be seasoning requirements with on any minimum balance. That would be crazy.

Of course the bank account methods require money seasoning.

Its a much better question to ask about how many months back for the transfers.


Not to mention transferwise which is rapidly gaining in popularity does not show up as foreign transfer.

So if they require foreign transfers even more of a problem for many.

Not about the income being fake. About mechanical transfer and personal money management issues.

If it's all year for transfers that's going to be very onerous for many. I predict a significant percentage of people would either switch to the 800k method or leave Thailand.

I think they need to think long and hard about requiring such transfers unless they really do want to shake out a huge chunk of us not because we can't afford to live here but because they've made the rules too unreasonable and too annoying.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thank you for your answer, but I didn't think "That's an easy one." or I wouldn't have asked it! Also "with on any minimum balance." ???

There is nothing that I have read to say that the 65,000 baht a month needs "seasoned", but I do agree that it would make sense for it to be in line with the 800,000 baht a year requirement. 

However, I think that what they should be concerned about is solving the problem for the people who do have that kind of income annually, but have now had the means of proving it taken away from them by their seemingly uncaring Embassy, and instead turn their attention to the people that don't have that kind of income, and are managing to get to stay by the use of fraudulent or corrupt means. (OK it has been mentioned about these agencies also being targeted, but going by past experience, money talks and no doubt there will already be "cunning plans" ready to be put into operation!)

However, at the end of the day "TIT" - This Is Thailand it is their country, and no doubt, if they don't resolve the problem, and Brit pensioners start leaving in droves because they don't have immediate access to 800,000 baht that they can forget about for 3 months, and if current reports that the American Embassy is about to follow suit, then the TAT (Tourist Authority of Thailand) will have it covered by saying that the tourist figures have gone up by 12% more than last year!