plachon

Quiz, i think you've flipped me old mucker. Either that or you never took the time to read how the thread went and what people were saying. Like love, religion can be very blind to...... Doesn't make it wrong, it just tends to make us see only the things that we want to see.

That being as it may. I'd just like to correct you on one thing. Not ALL Thais are against the movie.........Mrs Plachon saw the shock, horror piccie on the front of Matichon, read the wee blurb on the poster and said: "Nah son jai, nah bai doo". For the benefit of non-Thai speakers: "That sounds interesting and worthwhile seeing". Wonder if she'll ever get the chance in Thailand?

If Mr Toxin keep feeding his megalomaniac projects, Thailand will go bankrupt again like it did in 1997. This time, IMF will not be around for a rescue as they have been insulted by Thai officials in their recent rescue effort.

Sounds like old times again, eh, 'Fly? The optimists say that Thailand's got it all, the old cynics like you and me, say it all can go horribly wrong when decision-making is concentrated in the hands of a few cronies. As for the "Asian century", if China makes it past 2020 without imploding, I'd be v. surprised. Strategic position of course helps with economic growth, but in this century it will be wise use of natural resources that decides who sinks and swims. Unfortuntately, some small coral atolls (e.g. Maldives) and low-lying countries (Bangladesh and parts of Thailand e.g. Bangkok and Vietnam) have got a damp awakening to come, no matter how wise they are. I'd be putting my shekels in renewable energy stocks and pollution-control companies, if i had any to spare.

the dude:

I sympathise with a lot of what you say. But I say SYMPATHISE, instead of wholly agree because after living and working in a developing country for some time now I see the world in much less black and white terms.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am by no means a conservative, and my parents are "third world" immigrants to America. I grew up low-income, and had to struggle for every gain I've ever made in my life. I'm still struggling. You don't need to tell many third world immigrants or people of color in America that America is not perfet. ######, read our history. Read our foreign policies. Any reasonable person will concede this point.

But while your at it, please read the histories of other European nations. Read the histories of these other oppressed nations. Yes, there is the history of colonialism (European and Asia), and there is the history of imperialism (America). There is also the homegrown history of tribalism, genocide, and dictatorship within the histories of oppressed countries.

Read comparative religous history, along with the holy books. I have found that there is not one major world religion that can claim to not uphold or has not upheld violence (physical or spiritual) over one oppressed group or another. Just read. Because once you seek out a variety of sources within history, the world starts to appear much more complex than whether you are a "conservative or progressive".

Again, if you are the same reasonable person (everyone in general, not you personally The Dude) that criticizes America, i'm not sure how you can miss every other past Western empire's historical contribution to the current mess. For the people who are implicitly superior (implicit by the constant harping on about how America is so much more ignorant than your pristine nation), you all have seemed to delete vast tracks of history. How incredibly convienent for your one-dimensional arguments.

Please read more, and talk less, or better yet, read a variety of different sources before you form these unshakable and ultimately inaccurate black and white gospels.

I agree with almost everything you say Kat, and it's very refreshing to see a reasonable voice speaking such sense. My one reservation is that, like Michael Moore, I believe the "constant harping on about America's ignorance" and current belligerence is actually a good thing and necessary, in the "War against Bushism" (i.e the little clique of people that have hijacked the most powerful nation on earth and are now intent on holding the rest of the world to ransom). Exagerration of the truth? I think not...........last night Kofi Annan stated that the US-led invasion of Iraq WAS ILLEGAL.

Now, I know the Boonmee and the other neo-cons on this site will try and wriggle out of this unpalatable truth, but again, if the vast majority of the US public weren't so goddammned ignorant, the world wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now with a dangerous maniac in the White House. And I make no excuses for the poodle Blair, and his clique of neo-Labradors, but unlike the US, the British public in the main were never FOR the war. Both leaders should be with Milosevic answering their crimes in the Hague right now. If only......... Ignorance should not be an excuse!

Khun Jean, you've hot on another institutional handicap that ordinary Thais have, if they want to learn English outside the classroom environment. Unlike other countries, which encourage English learning through TV programmes in English (exception of 15 mins of Ajarn Andrew a day!) and soundtrack movies with subtitles, Thais are denied this excellent chance to learn vernacular English. Instead, they (and a few of "us") are subjected to some of the worst dubbing in the world ("The hub of bad dub" is a title LOS does deserve). To add insult to injury, the English written word is taxed at a ridiculous rate, making newspapers like Nation and B. Post (20 baht), 150 % more expensive than Thai language counterparts e.g. Matichon - 8 baht. All these seem to be conscious efforts by the govt. to deny their citizens easy access to English learning opportunities.

The fact that Thaksin is still nominally following this case, and it hasn't been put in the "forgotten case book" yet, suggests that diplomatic efforts by the UK govt. at seeing justice done are going on behind the scenes, which is encouraging.

However, I think it v. unlikely that the miscreant has gone to Burma, where Thais are not best popular as a nation. He'd probably not like the scene too much there at all. If the miscreant has gone abroad (which I doubt), it'd more likely be in Laos or casino-land at Poi-Pet, where the son of Chalerm went for a little holiday a year or two back, before he judged the coast was clear and arrived back, quite the little hero. Identity change and help from buddies in another province is a far more likely scenario.

Oh yes, Chaz, please refrain from posting if you are going to say such idiotic hateful things, or you'll soon find yourself banned from the Forum.

My 8 year old daughter recently sat an English exam set by a private company called "Top Test", which claims to be nationwide leader in test setting. They get schools to promote their tests, take an entry fee of parents and kids that do well in each province/region then go on to compete nationally for cash prizes in a number of subjects including maths, Thai and English. I thought she'd sail through, but when I got to see the test sheet after, I found that fully 50 % of the questions had spelling and grammatical mistakes and many were such nonsense, that even a native-speaking adult couldn't answer them. Others were totally out of the experience range for a Pratom 3 student.

Wrote a letter pointing out this low standard to the school principal (in Thai) and unsurprisingly, have never received a reply. As I suspected, it was just a cynical money making exercise, and feedback was not welcomed. Anyone else had any experience of their kids taking part in such tests?

This morning I heard police a general being interviewed on the Thai English news service. He said that he expected to capture the alledged miscreant today or tomorrow. I must confess he did not sound very convincing. Rather like a character from a childrens' pantomine, who assures one with all his heart that he will do something. Yet in his own heart he knows he lacks the means to do so.

Reminds me of the time Pol. Capt Chalerm said he'd reveal in parliament where the bodies of the disappeared from Black May were hidden - "tomorrow". That was in 1992 and everyone is still waiting for the tomorrow that never comes.

Can you guess Heng's family business?

Child Prostitution? Organizing Cambodian beggars? Illegal logging through National Forest encroachment

OR All of the above

Warm but not quite. How's about that favourite old lucrative pastime that wealthy merchants use against late-paying customers and impoverished farmers, when they want to boost the bulging coffers. Think "Jaws".

How is anyone ever going to recognise this cop, with 100,000 baht slapped across his face? I thought eyes being blocked out was reserved for victims of crime, not the perps (unless perhaps they were minors)!

Along tangents started by other posters.  1) as related to the possible actions of the victim 2) as related to the Thai police and as a comparison to crime here  3) as related to the possible actions of the victim  

The Heng Flowchart:

1. Read post

2. Post about status or economic issues? No--> ignore

Yes V

3. Post reinforces elitist snobbery? Yes--> smug agreement

No V

4. Post empty sarcastic comment plus change topic to snobbery issue

Standard repertoire: 1. Teachers are poor

2. White people are low status

3. Thais (especially Chinese) are high status

4. Heng is high status

5. Heng has this, that, or t'other thing and you don't

Wait for reply. No reply--> drop topic

ReplyV

5. Reply in agreement? Yes--> smug agreement

No V

6. Reply is moronic? Yes--> deserved mockery of moron

No V

7. Replier compares unfavorably to the Heng economically? No--> Impossible!

Yes V

8. Shift topic to something involving standard economic putdown repertoire

Recent choices: 1. Farang lower status than Thai in Japan (wrong, but

dissembling nicely in denial)

2. Farang in trouble due to their own low status/nastiness

3. Farang would have nicer life if rich/high status like the Heng

Wait for reply. No reply--> drop topic

Yes V

9. Reply in agreement? Yes--> smug agreement

No V

10. Reply accuses Heng of inaccuracy/exaggeration? Yes--> "I never said... blah blah blah <object of accusation>," even though it is exactly what the Heng said.

No V

11. Revert to step 7.

Ad nauseum, amen.

"Steven"

P.S. Dare anyone to find a Heng thread that doesn't follow this pattern. I'm thinking of naming a syndrome after it.

P.P.S. Heng, the Japanese bars in Japan never had any trouble with me- not because I'm white, but because I SPEAK NIHONGO [and I've even been to the places there that have "Japanese Only" signs on them still]. If there are TRULY Japanese-managed bars here (not Thai-managed all Thai staff) I could probably get in by showing I know the routine- not that I'd want to waste the money in the process.

P.P.P.S Well, this darn editor doesn't keep extra initial spaces in posts, so my formatting became donkey doodoo. Oh well.

You got Heng's thought processes down to a tee, Steve, but can you really expect any different to come from a person who blames the Thai poor for their idiocy in borrowing money at high interest rates from money lenders and then going bust.

And just to bring this topic back to the original thread, rather than the above distraction, am I imagining it, or wasn't the culprit/"suspect" reported to be in police custody on the very next day following this sad event? If I'm not imagining it, how on earth did he get out of the nick so easily and why aren't the papers questioning this? The longer he stays out of jail, the more damage it'll do for the Thai tourist industry abroad, as there's nothing the British press like more than a tale of vice and corruption in the sun and Sun.

Just for the record, and because Kwiz seems to be a tad shy of naming his nationality, but I do think it has some relevance to the topic; he comes from Sri Lanka. Now I hope he will not be angry about me letting this fact slip, as in the past he has been quite willing to discuss his country openly, and indeed, I have had one run-in, a long time ago, about the dangers inherent in writing off an entire nation, when one's own country is not entirely spotless on the issue of religious (in)tolerance.

Now, for anyone who knows my angles, will know I am not exactly pro-US foreign policy or pro-US style politics, but I would not dream of attacking the whole darn country and its people (apart from in jest, perhaps, Booners old boy ) , over the actions of one director or film, so think Kwiz has stepped over the mark on this one. But it does highlight a trend I've noticed, where good law-abiding denizens of ex-colonial countries are extremely concerned about the perceived rise of US neo-colonialism in the past 3 years or so. I think the blame can be squarely put in Bush's and his oil-buddies court, and until the US population wake up to this fact, and kick the offending culprit out in November, then the US-rest of the world tensions will increase interminably and things like "Hollywood Buddha" will just stoke the flames of resentment about the present world order.

Then, economically, prostitution doesn't add a whole lot of productivity and sustainable growth to the economy.. Keeping in mind how insignificant the foreign scene is, all those girls working in the entertainment industry don't really help the economy. (Other than keeping the workforce happy, of course. )

Cheers,

Chanchao

Don't know about that Chanchao..............half of some Isaan villages new houses were built with earnings from such activities, never mind the new vehicles, mobile phones , TVs bought, relations cured and buffalos saved from the slaughterhouse. This is how the hidden economy feeds into the mainstream one in a big way and keeps thngs ticking over in the countryside. If it was banned (ie. enforced), there could be economic catastrophe in quite a sizable number of villages upcountry. Don't forget it also leads to marriage (poll result said 30 % of respondents met their gfs/wives in a bar), which keeps the remittances flowing........

Yeah, I guessed you were, but you can't be too sure in these days of PCness on Thaivisa! And anyway, who would want to be compared with Erco? Have you noticed how everything has been toned down and sanitised on this board since: a/ they put in the Bearpit; b/ moved it off to the boondocks where Boonmee can post to himself all day to his hearts content and c/ the Mods became draconian with the "no handbags at dawn" rule. Result seems to be a rather dull shadow of its former self, but still some lively exchanges now n'again, such as the recent tale of woe from Kringle and the oneman "you should be ashamed at your age and should have known better" attack and 10 page reply.

So, good luck in the Gulf, keep your head below the parapet and look forward to seeing you posting now and again, until your back in LOS next time around for a good blast. I'll put aside a bottle of vintage Saeng Som in my cellar, should you ever decide to come up to Isaan for a visit.

In an attempt to try and learn something about this type of topic I went to the literature.......there I found a piece written by a thai woman who was a teacher at a University. SHe mentioned that when a fellow teacher was on duty at an exam hall and caught two students cheating, he confiscated their papers and told them they would fail. The next week he was called into the bosses office and given a two week 'holiday' to re-think his actions. Asked why he did that, he replied he thought it was his duty to report cheaters in an exam. His boss told him that he should have thought about the students family first.......they may lose face for having their kids caught out for cheating !!!!

Now I ask you, does this make an ounce of sense? How can this behaviour, these ideas, lead to success,/improvement/development and or betterment of the nation ? Me.......ngong !!!

Shame on you Ned! You're not criticising a certain well known politician's (Mr T) son who was caught cheating in final exams at a certain well known Uni (RU), but was exonerated by the Dean, because "students are youths who don't know any better, and in any case everyone does it" (or words to that effect), are you? So logically, if he can get away with it, how can anyone else in the Realm be at fault for such minor misdemeanors? See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil, and everything will be wine and roses. Trust me, I'm a politician..............

Heart attack inducing fruit? How clever. The ducks always did make a mess of things....

The ducks prefer the fruit ... or so I heard. The other things were inclined to be a tad tough.

Not after they've been thrown off a 7th floor balcony and tenderised a bit Doc.

don't make this a discussion to personally attack everything the guy does.

I think you should give that same advice to the people who are attacking me.

Look, I may have an unpopular opinion, and I may seem to be coming down hard on a guy who was a "victim", but if you look at what I'm saying and what everyone else is saying, essentially we agree: Nana is a bad place, and should probably be avoided.

Now, this guy said he was a retiree, so therefore he should be old enough by now to have learned this life lesson already, but apparently he hasn't. And I don't believe in cutting adults slack for making mistakes that boys make. He should have realized by now that a seedy go-go bar in the prostitution nexus of Bangkok is not an appropriate place for a grown, married man.

Maybe on these forums, that idea is radical and unpopular, but trust me, in NORMAL society, that's a pretty mainstream notion. So if I come off a bit harsh, it's because I believe that a grown man should know better by now and if he doesn't then SOMEBODY needs to knock some sense (virtually) into him.

You guys all want to pat him on the back and say, "Aw, poor baby". Well, I don't believe in coddling grown men. And many of you want him to go back and find the place that did this too him (presumably so you can avoid it). Go back!?!? Why should he go back there!?!?!? This lesson should have taught him that he should avoid those places and stick to doing things that are appropriate for grown, married men (like hanging out with his wife).

So just because I'm the only one who's not kissing his boo-boos and encouraging more negative behavior, I get jumped on and viciously attacked by other posters.

Whatever...

Look Mr Fatcanteloupe Fvuckwit, virtually nobody is agreeing with your brand of sanctomonius, self-satisfied, egocentric, half-baked, condescending, insulting crap.

The guy was a victim of a serious crime in an area of Bangkok popular with tourists and expats alike, and putting aside your ignorant, moronic assertions aside that NEP is somehow "a bad place" (probably because you got ripped off or butt raped by a bunch of katoeys there once) and you prefer being farang hero of the hour in predominantly Thai bars (bully for you boy), nobody deserves such "a life lesson". Anybody who thinks like that, "deserves" to have the same done to them, so beware your karma catching up with you one of these days.

It probably would've escaped your narrow pea brain that a few doors on from where Kringle claimed the crime occurred is the Woodstock Bar. No go-go, but good beer, music, pool, atmosphere and A1 sounds. It's been there as long as I've hung out in Bangkok and cannot be described as seedy as half the places you claim to like "out in the suburbs". Just try walking in there one day and spouting the same things you've been preaching on this thread and see who gets "some sense knocked into them".

Now either toddle along to your bridge session with your bum-chums, or apologise nicely to Kringle, before Chonabot and Tutsiwarrior get on your case.

(Sorry, but somebody had to tell this Ercoclone)

Are Asia Books still refusing to sell Phasuk and Baker's book? If so, what's the Asia Books connection and should we be taking our business elsewhere when buying books?

let's just say it was Handmade beneath a blanket.

I sat next to a reasonable nice girl (didn't know her) on a bus from bangkok to sakhonakhon. It was a long 12 hour ride at night. Something just clicked when we looked at each other somewhere during the bus ride.

Just some hanky panky under the blanket , nothing to serious

At my stop just said bye, both with a big smile

"Her" hand or your hand Darknight? It was fairly dark on that night bus I bet (see how you get your nickname now), when this half reasonable looking "girl" smiled temptingly and slipped her hand in yours on that long journey down from Sakhon Nakhon. As the miles dragged by, you let "her" hands do the talking. Such soft supple fingers, so experienced, so......... and soon gizzed all over the blanket (no wonder they're always so crusty ) and arrived in Mawchit a happy fella.

So was "she" I'm sure.

Awww, jeeez mate, I didn't meet to upset your delicate constitution. It was just the feeling of shlock and more at seeing an old buddy, back on the forum, after all this time. Where you been? Earning the big Saudi dinar's or just laying low in NS for a while? That's what made me think you'd been lurkin' around for a bit, but comparing you to Erco, was a bit below the belt I admit. But hey, it could've been worse, I might've likened you to Mr Vietnam!

Anyways, no hard feelings I hope, and yeah, that was the pond I was referring to. Been a lot of water and fattened ducks through that pond since we kicked off this stuttering dialogue, eh? Did you ever get the shrimps in the ponds, by the way, or did the thought of alternative feathered friend motives for the Mrs put you off in the end?

I pretty much joined right away. In my isolation upcountry I found that I could exercise my language skills and simultaneously insult and outrage people with the usual accompanyment of Sam Song and orange juice.

Not a bad forum even if one does get insulted in return and banned occasionally.

Lying old &lt;deleted&gt;!

admit it tuts: you lurked for months undercover of such names as Erco and Budzumwalt, before becoming the biggest troller in the pond.

You what??!

Can't figure out what the "news" content in that was at all, let alone what the kids/researcher is moaning about.

"Noting that every teenager wants to look good, Miss Wallaya describes hairstyle rules as ‘trampling on the rights of children’, causing distress among young people.

However, she says, the problem does not stop there.

Feeling distressed and downtrodden, the children look for acceptance elsewhere, generally among their peer group, some of whom may then lead them astray.

She quotes a schoolgirl as saying: “The matter of hair causes enormous stress among pupils, causing truancy and the inability to concentrate on studies”.

Are they complaining about too many regulations or too few? If the only thing that is causing lack of concentration and truancy is hairstyle worries, the give 'em all pudding bowls, girls and boys, and be done with it. Like the standard school uniform, will soon do away with the jealousy factor.

With words like that, Ramsey Clark obviously was never cut out to become a politician......he'd just spilled the beans on one of the core pillars of US post-war (2nd WW) expansionism. If you can control the world's food supply, you are nine tenths to controlling the world - Maslow's heirarchy of needs and all that. The only thing that stands in the way of this goal is the continued "intransigence" of certain "third world" countries to protect their small farmers from the rapacious habits of the likes of Cargill, Monsanto, etc., who make sure the US populace get their daily dose of GMO's, quite unbeknown to the majority of them. It makes me wonder if they don't splice a gene for overseas aggression and fear of "others" into that GM maize you guys eat for breakfast each day.

Last week I bought a papaya at the market in Chiang Mai. The thing didn't have any seeds. Never come across a papaya without seeds before. Is this the sign of a GM papaya? Yes.....I did end up eating the bastard.

No, don't worry you won't grow an extra head or &lt;deleted&gt; as a result, it's just sterile. Quite common with papayas - local equivalent of a Jaffa orange or Cherbobyl victim.

Yes, the links would probably be better Aya, but thanks for posting this stuff nevertheless. Perhaps it should be in News clippings section too.

It shows once again that Toxin acts without thinking things through, putting the welfare of the many behind the economic interests of a narrow few. As a result of his haste to pander to the multi-national GMO promoting corporations, he has lost business for many farmers and food exporters to the GM-sensitive European market, which anyone with an ounce of common sense could have predicted beforehand. Like the bird-flu handling fiasco , it gives the whole agricultural sector in Thailand a bad name, through no real fault of its own. The blame should lie with a handful of politicians and their close business associates, who are selling this country out for their own personal gain.

Thanks for the reply Scouse. It got me worrying about what we should do, as we don't want to return to UK so soon, either for the expense or hassle involved.

Went searching through my wife's documents and came up with a leter from the Home Office they sent in 2001 with her ILR. It says this:

"If your absence from the UK is for longer than 2 years but you can still demonstrate that you had indefinite leave to enter or remain here when you last left, and you are returning for the purpose of resettlement, you may still qualify for admission as a returning resident if, for example, you have maintained strong connections with this country".

(Still being married to me and part-owning property there suggests she has)

It goes on: "You do not require a visa to return to the UK provided you are returning for settlement after a period of 2 years or less. However, if you are returning for settlement to the UK after an absence of over 2 years, you are advised to apply for an entry clearance at the nearest British Diplomatic Post in the country in which you are living. This should facilitate your re-admission to the UK."

Therefore, I take this to mean that should we decide to return next year, we just have to get some kind of "clearance stamp" from the Brit Embassy, and not a whole new visa for her, as you suggest, and her ILR will not be invalidated. Or am I misunderstanding what the letter is saying for somebody who's been outside UK for 2 years?

you're on mate, so long as you promise not to slough your skin, shed your tail or anything gross like that whilst drying out on the rocks. We're very particular about our domestic and drinking habits in these 'ere parts, and bugs are rapidly eaten and digested, should they be so foolish as to venture into The Goanna Arms or The Gecko's Head uninvited.

pssst.........Bring back the naughty nights in nakhon nowhere nineties, as opposed to these nihilisticly nefarious nit - infested noughties, if we're talking decades to savour.