plachon

When you are young,you can do it every day,sometimes 2 or 3 times.

But as you get older it drops to once a week and older, even less.

That is for men,, I do not know about women,,maybe one will answer with an honest answer,most guys will lie anyway.

Who on earth would want to lie about going to get a Thai traditional massage?

And who on earth would want one 2 or 3 times a day?

sometimes your theories leave DaveYo standing Kev!

After all, there is far more to growing up than just getting "a good education", which can be all things to all people. Personally, I think you've got to balance the home life, outside environment, family, friends and schooling to find the right balance.

I agree that there's more to growing up than just education, but in all aspects of a just society, care for people, knowing the difference between right and wrong, Thailand is not the place to be.

"Schooling" prepares for getting a job, what do you see your daughter do later in life in Thailand?

Don't think you read my post closely enough Sawawudt......... I said Thailand is the place to be for her at this age, but in a few years time and certainly by secondary school, UK will probably be the preferable option. By that time she should be truly bi-lingual, something that would be unlikely had she spent all her primary years in UK. She may forget much of the written Thai she's now versed in, but she'll always be fluent in spoken Thai, unlike most luk-krung resident in Britain. But the secondary education offered in Thailand cannot compete with UK, if a child wants a chance of going to Uni in the West (excepting the rather elitist, and ridiculously expensive private schools in Thailand).

Bina's correct, unless reading has been encouraged from a very early age, one may be "educated" to lofty levels, but still basically be illiterate. I know several Thais with PhDs from Thai universities, that don't have a single novel on their bookshelf, just lines on text books in their field of study. Hence, literature (whether from the Western or Eastern traditions) is quite alien to them and reading a book for the sheer pleasure of it is seen as a waste of time. This disdain for books, tracks back to lack of parental encouragement, and no doubt the cycle will continue with their children. Hence, the rather narrow world view of most (but by no means all) Thais. At the other extreme, I have a few very literate Thai friends whose knowledge of English literature knocks spots off mine, and one in particular who has made a pilgrimage to Bronte's birthplace on t'Moors!

Like Astral, I would not even consider subjecting any kid of mine to the cesspool that is Bangkok, but reckon there are worse places than bringing up a kid that upcountry Thailand............up to a point.

After all, there is far more to growing up than just getting "a good education", which can be all things to all people. Personally, I think you've got to balance the home life, outside environment, family, friends and schooling to find the right balance. And for that, right now, puts Thailand slightly ahead of UK for our 8 year old, but it's a close run thing. However, in a few years time, I think the balance will swing back the other way and UK will be the place to be.

To Chon me old mukka, for what it's worth, my daughter is always saying the same thing, but t'other way round i.e. "When are we going back to England Daddy?" She likes her school here, but has fond memories of her friends and school back in UK (Yes, she loved her first two years in primary over there, and used to skip to school every morning, come rain or shine!)

Re:Khunying Mo....long time no hear but dont remember anything too negative about her.

She is still it seems held in high esteem (by K.wife anyway)although she K.w. will not cut her hair for any reason

Whats the score?

About 8 years or more back, a young student of history at Chula (I think), wrote her MSc thesis on said Khunying Mo, and proposed that most of the present "facts" around this Khorat heroine were based on a 1960s film glorifying her, and that any hard and factual knowledge about this lady was very scarce indeed. Most of the legend and statue in NR centre had grown up since the film, and prior to this there was very little hoohah about this Thai "Boadicea".

Still, never ones to let facts get in the way of a good story, the poor Chula student was villified, cursed and run out of town by the good citizens of Khorat, and the legend and worship continues unrattled.

BTW, thought that even with carbon dating, the jury was still out on the Turin Shroud, so am off to do a google now.

Best way to encourage reading amongst kids is to get rid of the goggle-box, especially in Thailand. And line your house with all types of books like Guesthouse. And be a role model to them, by reading to them, with them and just reading.

But starting them early is also a key, and a bored teenager with the attention span of a goldfish, could be a hard nut to crack.

Yeah, I've been hearing a lot more about this lately. I read that getting a tan is bad for you, it's a sign of skin damage . I was looking forward to trying to get a bit of a tan myself, I'm as white as a ghost.

So tell me, am I destined to get skin cancer if I spend a lot of time in Thailand, outdoors in the sun? I think it's a bit unrealistic to stay completely covered up in Thailand's climate. God, I worry myself sick about it.

I don't think you need to be paranoid about spending too much time in the sun in Thailand. Common sense and the tropical heat should dictate how long is enough, (unless you're an Englishman or mad dog!). My arms stay permanently tanned, but I try to avoid the rest of my body getting too much exposure, and if I'm on the beach it's always follow the Ozzie rules of "Slip, slap, slop".

But there's another factor I'm curious about, which somebody may have more info on. Even though Thailand is nearer the equator and hence the sun, I believe there is less dangerous UV rays getting through than at higher latitudes, because of differences in the thickness of the ozone layer (which filters them out). Hence, sunbathing near the poles is theoretically more dangerous than near the equator. Is there any substance in this?

45 years........that would be a bit of a bummer of after all that time in LOS, eh?

Just hope he doesn't mention anything about Khunying Mo now.

I was at the Chiang Mai Elephant Park in 1997 when one of the "tame" performing elephants suddenly went berserk and killed an Australian tourist who was feeding it bananas at the time.

Regardless of how "domesticated" or "well trained" they are, elephants are still wild animals at heart. If a bull isn't shackled when it goes into high musth, its mahout loses control and nothing short of a .458 WinMag through the forehead will stop its rampage ... and of course you're not allowed to shoot an elephant in Thailand unless it has already killed you.

That didn't stop some sharp shooter cops from trying to kill a bull elephant cleanly that slipped it's chains and went beserk at a Bangkok temple a few years ago. Forget the final toll of bullets it took, but it was in 3 figures, when one well aimed tranquiliser dart would have sufficed. Still made a sanuk diversion from directing traffic on the Expressway I guess.

Hhhmmmmmm..............Colemanballs, eh?

But, I'm curious Mr Charles if these quotes are from Thai or anglophone students?

One classic I recall from a Thai student was: "In Thailand we only have erections once every four years".

Perhaps, explains the interest Thai girls show in farang men (and vice versa)

I've yet to hear about a human being infected by bird flu.

The Thai's I know couldn't give a flying cluck about bird flu and are frankly bored of hearing about it.

I find it a little bit unnerving as I wouldn't want to fall ill so far from an NHS hospital, still, I'm not giving up eggs just yet.

As for KFC, I wouldn't eat that mass produced, greasy offal if you paid me, bird flu or not, and when I inform as many Thai's as I can, especially kids, of the consequences of eating the stuff.

Where've you been the last 6 months Scampi?

Last time bird flu came a visitin' 8 Thais died (officially) and loads were hospitalised around the country. 19 snuffed it in Vietnam and a few more in China. Health officials from WHO & FAO say it's a very crafty little bugger of a virus this one, mutating and evading "capture" before it jumps across the animal -human interface. Don't be surprised if this thing comes back bigger than SARS in the next 6 months.

That Thais don't give a flying cluck about it this time round, is all the more worrying than the manic, panic stations in giving up eating all poultry and eggs last time, that caused Tox to go on all stations eating your beloved KFC.

Not at all. I always found that one pint before the 1st and another after the 9th hole, helped no end in hitting the ball long and straight. however, the 3rd and 4th pints in the 19th, had a negative effect on the afternoon's driving, both off the tee and on the way home.

That was in England, but reckon it would soon be sweated off, if I tried the same in LOS.

I do NOT like Marmite........

That's your loss mate.............

But, a thickly spread slice of homemade wholewheat bread, butter and lychee jam, can also be equally tempting for breakfast.

I believe in gentler times it was traditional for the wet nurse to smear MARMITE/VEGAMITE on the end of her nipples before allowing her charge ..usually "mem sabs" miget male offspring to encourage the little buggers to suck (lunch) in the approved manner.

Seems a lot of our "finest"needed more than just potty training lessons which as can be seen is probabally now fully reflective of our society.

Anyway I dont give a TIT

What strange times you lived in. You mean the greedy young nippers did away with the bread altogether to get their daily dose of the black stuff?

Sure you haven't been pouring too much of the t'other black stuff (guinness) down Nursie's nipples Rin? It's all good nourishing stuff, when all is said and done.

you can have a beer with me at the "Lighthouse Bar", am there most days around 14:00.

Only 14.00 pm?? That's a bit late in the day to get the first one down your throat is it not Bronco?

I do NOT like Marmite........

That's your loss mate.............

But, a thickly spread slice of homemade wholewheat bread, butter and lychee jam, can also be equally tempting for breakfast.

By far the best solution to the lack of edible bread in the Realm I've found, is to train 'er indoors about the delights of kneading dough. Not only can you get a decent slice of bread for your Marmite butties, but it toughens up her fingers nicely for the evening massage.

According to the Book of young Daniel, they're the evil British/US army on manouvers (sp?) against God's Army and we'd all better convert right now, just to be on the safe side. Others reckon they're RTAF or local Navy Seals on ops. Or perhaps a drug mop-up mish. However, I reckon it's just a simple case of a TAT Unseen in Thailand promo for the benefit of Nonthaburi residents. Consider yourself privileged Otherstuff.......

Does anybody have any experience with non native fruits such as grapes?

what varieties are available and which ones grow better in Thailand?

In addition to the wines RC mentions, there's another one called Chateau d'Lo. A bloody respectable Cab Sauvignon, that sells for around 280 baht/bottle in Big C. It's produced in the hills of Khao Kor, Petchabun, by an ex-Thai consul to the Consultate in Bordeaux, so he certainly should know his vins. Have been to Chateau du Loei before, but was not that impressed with the wine or information available to the public, so reckon this place in Khao Kor has got to be worth a visit one day. anybody else ever been?

Basically, grapestock in Thailand is so far out of it's natural range that it's bound to be struggling in the tropical heat, even at altitude, that a whole cocktail of pesticides is likely to be essential to protect it from damage. But that won't stop rich entrepreneurs from trying, or for insisting on raising every breed of northern dog (huskies, St Bernards, etc) or growing strawberries and other temperate fruits. Where there's a will, there's a way; but rational economics or ecological sense are another matter altogether.

However, there is a type of local dark red grape in Isaan that I've heard called maak kiigo. It's quite rare, but at least one group has tried to turn it into wine (with good results) and I'm trying to find out more about it. Have even managed to get a few seeds to germinate and have them in bags at home. Will let you know if i can get them to grow as a vine and set fruit. Then it'll be homebrew time and will invite up contributors to this thread for a tasting!

We were all roundly criticised by the Elite Marketers for suggesting that all was not kosher, and that the land ownership thing couldn't happen. It was a pipedream that had to go wrong  ...  as it did.

Indeed, I would love to hear from some of the Elite Card marketing shills who were extolling the virtues of their product earlier this year all the while dismissing any concerns that were posted regarding some of the program points (such as land ownership).

They'll all be back to flogging dodgy life insurance and pyramid share schemes no doubt, Ovenman. You gotta give 'em credit for flogging a dead horse though, even when it's reduced to a pile of bones.

maybe the "Lifetime" guarantees of benefits, referred just to the lifetime of this present regime, not the cardholder's lifetime? Anybody placing bets.

The visa-"free" being reduced to 5 years is a corker, which just about leaves youa free trip in a limo from the airport and a few massages as the only benefits left for ya milllion baht. about 5,000 baht a 250 baht trip, it probably works out at now.

Come on owners, tell us what you're getting for your piece of plastic?

You put your left foot in, your left foot out;

In, out; in, out; and shake it all about.......

This scheme has more turns than the hokey kokey (or the Liverpool share deal), but who's going to dare tell the emperor he's butt naked? You can just imagine him tapping the numbers in his pocket calculator...... 1 million members x $25 k = 25 billion bucks at minimal risk, deposited in a foreign bank account. "They'll be queing out the door for this one boys, just you wait and see".

Now what's with the 118,000 mullarky? Some lucky number dreamt up by a roadside mor du? C'mon Emp, face up to reality, you'll be lucky to hit 1,118 and half of those had to be given away as free perks to kick the scheme off.

Two questions arise: 1/ How much was spent by TAT, etc. in actually kicking this Elite <deleted> off. Billions of baht as I remember, but I'm sure George has the figs at his fingertips.

2/ Isn't this whole scheme remarkably similar to the AIS Serenade "thingy", which appears as regular as clockwork daily in the Post, and is written in the kind of English one would expect from a Mor 3 student. At first I ignored them, but now I kind of get a perverse, cringing pleasure out of reading them. Still don't understand a jot about what they mean mind you.

Bit like some of DaveYo's posts I guess.

IMHO it's all a money and status thing. This guy's probably rolling in it, and he expects that to count for something when he visits the Brit Embassy and wants to fast track a visa application, like he would a building permission application a the local council. When it doesn't jibe, he gets pissed off and wants to take it out on the farang population in general (i.e. spoilt brat mentality).

for those that have local memories going back pre-97 crash, there were lots of instances back then of irrational bravado getting the better of overnight millionaires. One example that sticks firmly in my mind was a very strange editorial in the B. Post (p'raps in 96), that likened Britain to a third rate failed empire going to the dogs, that would pretty soon lag behind Thailand economically, which was doing 8-10 % growth a year, while UK languished with 1-3 %. The author showed his true colours with a statement to the effect of "The farang is useful to us in some ways, but very boring and expendable". Unfortunately, he forgot to consider the little factor of sustainability of that growth.

I advise against catfish

Plachon advises against keeping Plachon (catfish)

I did'nt see yor post cos I was writing mine, we nearly agree with each other

Hi Random, replied to this twice yesterday before lunch, but failed to send both times. Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

anyways, you're close with your translation, but not quite............I'm a snakehead, not a catfish (pla duk). Both carnivores, but quite different kettles of pla, in most other respects. 1/ Catfish skulk around at the bottoms of ponds, using their whiskers for food location (we're clean shaven ), snakeheads use their eyes; 2/ Catfish are basically lazy and sniff out meaty food, but are not fussy if it's long dead (rancid chicken carcasses being accepted), while snakeheads use their eyes and prefer livebait; 3/ Catfish are slimey critters, with small eyes, and bad breath, whilst snakeheads (several species), are evil-looking buggers with razor-sharp teeth from which nothing escapes. Apart from that, we're quite a civil lot!

Yes, a spooky coincidence us simultaneously posting something almost in agreement! So, there's hope yet that we won't come to blows over the subsidisation of the price of milk! (Still waiting for an opportunity to quiz somebody in the know)

MeNuts Are Onfire, catfish can be profitably farmed, under the right circumstances in a non-ecologically damaging way, but I still wouldn't recommend them to the novice kicking off with fish farming, especially in Isaan. It makes far more sense, to chuck a load of herbivorous fish in a pond and just fertilise it with muck and suppplementary feed with cheap local inputs, like rice bran and leaves rich in protein (cassava leaves and morning glory are good). some small catfish can be added later, when the fish are well grown and safe from being eaten by the predatory catfish, and fed worms, termites or fish guts - anything "meaty" in fact. Remember, this is in the smallish pond, village context i'm talking about, where the owners are resource-poor and not relying on it as their main source of income. If they can make a success of this to feed themselves, the neighbours and sell some surplus, then there is an argument for stepping up the scale of ops to a larger more intensive fish farm. But, like Random says, it doesn't pay to start big without the neccesary basic knowledge of fish raising.

Big catfish farms are mostly located inCentral plains, where they integrate them with intensive chicken farms, or use slaughterhouse wastes. using complete feeds is possible, but not very profitable, as the margins are very narrow (ditto intensive farmed tilapia in cages). CP and a few other agribusinesses promote this, but it's very risky and VERY polluting to the river/lake.

Never taught anywhere near Pattaya, but can still recommend you stick to a room no higher than 6 m off the ground, preferably sans balcony.

I bought 9 rai and then my wife decided that hiring a tractor to dig out 2 large fish ponds was a good idea. So, the family hired a tractor (i paid for) and they dug out to large ponds. I would say the area set aside for the ponds is around 4 or 5 rai. The rest of the land is being used to farm rice. Then, they paid around 1,000 baht to have the ponds stocked with small fish, which they feed on a daily basis. Then they decided to throw some shrimp into one of the ponds. Jury is still out on how that goes.

The good news is that the ponds now produce a sh*t load of fish....

The bad news is that if I were to just give them the money and they not buy fish food or farm the land it would cost me less money.

But the family tends to take care of half the streat they live on in terms of providing food for them.

It is interesting how the locals know the land. The ponds fill themsleves form the ground water.

I have an idea of buying a small pump and then using it to keep the rest of the land irrigated year round. So the family could grow rice, then switch to other crops in the off season.

If anyone would like to see a couple of pictures of the ponds, just email me, I will send them over.

I think the general consenus is that one cannot make a lot of money farming, but it does keep people from starving......

Also, the University of Khon Kaen has a large ag department and they have answered all my emails concerning farming in the region. I have thought about meeting with them and reviewing crops, soil, etc....

But for me, the fish ponds have been great. Now the family has a decent meal every night and if the shrimp start to multipy, it would be great.

It'd be possible to feed about six people (av. family unit) with fish quite regularly from a pond no bigger than 400 m2, with minimal inputs, bar regular manuring (at least weekly) and some supplementary feed like rice bran or some vegetable wastes. Anything bigger, and you can feed the neighbours too, tam bun or flog in the local market the surplus. But like any livestock, fish require regular maintenace and managment. You put only a little in, and you get only a few out, in v. simplistic terms. Most Isaan farmers don't like to put a lot into their ponds, and so usually don't get much out (compared to what is possible).

With fish farming, you can go down several roads of varying complexity and intensiveness, (like the difference between running a few healthy chickens round the yard or going the whole hog and setting up a closed system agribusiness-type unit of a million plus legless, wingless birds). If your rellies don't have much or any experience of the latter method of farming, then I suggest you start small, and work up. Large scale fish farming is very competitive in Thailand and dominated by a few large agribusinesses, who sell farmers whole "packages" (i.e. fry, food medicines) and then will either buy the end product off the farmer at a low price, or allow the farmer to try and dump a few tons of fish in the local market at a better price (but risk, selling only a fraction).

At the village level, where your family and neighbours are unlikely to be corporate go-getters, it's better to do it at a much less intensive and smaller scale, using cheap, locally available inputs. I advise against catfish, unless you have access to large amounts of cheap animal protein, as they're carnivores and won't nibble on leaves and crap, like the local carps (pla tapien, pla nai, pla yeesok, etc). which are easy to grow, so long as the water is green and fertile (from animal crap). Don't worry about the green water, it's perfectly healthy and just full of small plants and animals (plankton), which end up as fish food. Tilapia are okay (if you must!), but are non-native and cause all sorts of problems with the local ecology if they escape (not uncommon during floods).

Could go on, but in summary, if you want shit loads of fish, you must put in bucket loads of shit!

If you've got any specific questions, then feel free to ask.

Oh yes, unlikely that you'll get any stocked shrimp to breed in your ponds, unless they're brackish, as the salt content has to be near sea water before they'll "do their stuff." But there are local breeds of mini-shrimp in Isaan (goong foi), that taste great when they're kicking (goong dten) and need no attention or stocking.

Snoophound, would've thought it irrelevant what nationality or race someone is, when it comes to not using a condom in potentially hazardous situations. Stupidity is stupidity. Period.

As a matter of interest, how many cases of said behaviour have you come across?