Indo-Siam

My thoughts: Say that she makes 6,000 baht, pay her whatever is realistic for her work, and pay social fund for the full 6,000 = 480 baht per month. She should be willing to endorse that, in return for work. Plus she gets social fund coverage.

Cheers!

ISG

Hi TA -

This is not a direct answer to your question, but I can tell you that Labor Department raises no eyebrows about most (if not all) Thai employees earning 6,000 baht per month - slightly above the minimim "full-time" labor wage for Bangkok. (they might approve lower - I always advise to use round numbers, to aid calculations)

Or - more accurately - you can get work permit renewals by simply showing Social Fund depost receipts for most recent three months (I've heard it may soon increase to six months), showing payment of 8% of salary of at least 6,000 baht per month, for four employees. The item checked is the Social Fund receipts (4% withheld from salary, 4% matched by employer).

They make no distinction about number of hours worked.

When you apply for a work permit for a new company, you have no payment records. So they ask for a staffing chart, showing all Thai employees by name, job title, and proposed salary. 6,000 baht is OK - we've done it repeatedly - I don't know about lower salaries.

I have on one occasion been required to "muster" employees for a face-to-face showdown. But - this was by a corrupt Immigration inspector, seeking a bribe - not by Labor Department. To my knowledge, my company has never been looked at by Labor Department.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

www.thaistartup.com

Hi jtb -

The legal requirement is that one foreigner be domiciled in Thailand, and operate under power of attorney from Head Office. However, the concept of "domiciled here" just means that you are paying taxes here (not necessarily receiving the salary - but at least paying taxes on the amount), and that you obtain a work permit and associated extended non-immigrant entry permit. Your warm body can be anywhere. But - remember - in order for anything here in Thailand to happen, the holder of the Power of Attorney must sign - Regional Offices have no company seal, or directors - everything requires the POA holder to sign.

With that said, I am presently working with an established UK firm who had a second person signed to a POA - a Thai - and they have operated for years with no significant problems - much of that time with no farang even in the picture. But this was at a corporate level that had Deloitte & Touche handling their Thai paperwork.

Second question - you are not required to hire any Thais.

It seems to me that your questions indicate a desire to operate with no foreigners and no Thais - ????? main business being operation of a bank account? In the process of setting up the Office, you will need to submit a description of how the office will be run in Thailand, including a description of intended staffing plan, salaries, etc.

Do you clearly understand that a Regional Office cannot invoice or collect any funds from clients/customers inside Thailand? All money associated with running a Rep or Regional office must flow one way only - from overseas, through the office - to Thai landlords, company employees, and all the rest. No invoicing, no collection.

One other thing to understand - the paperwork drill to open a Thai Regional or Rep Office is not for the feint of heart. You will hvae to undergo thorough screening of your UK parent company by a Thai diplomatic post in the UK - they will require you to submit copies, translated into Thai, of company incorporation documents, right down to a map to your corporate HQ. You will also need to prepare in Thai an affidavit describing your parent company (in a specific format), a power of attorney in both languages, and a description of proposed Thai office. I understand (but am not certain) that if your overseas head office appears "questionable", they will require that you also submit translated copies of your last couple of years worth of audited financial reports.

In my opinion, it is more difficult (and takes much longer) to open a Rep/Regional Office than it does to start a Thai Private Co. Ltd.

Good Luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

www.thaistartup.com

The guy does not have a work permit, nor a non-immigrant visa.  He travels constantly back and forth to Hong Kong, so there is evidently no big need.  He has a Thai director who signs all the papers.

Indo-Siam

'Brings to mind the old adage about correctly defining what constitutes a "problem".

If you can throw money at a "problem", and obtain the desired outcome, then it wasn't really a problem - it was an expense.

There are problems, and there are expenses.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

Greg -

But - the section you cite specifically refers only to the lists of prohibited activities that are attached to the Act at Lists 1, 2, and 3.  These lists represent those businesses in which foreigners are not allowed to engage (growing rice, making Buddha images, etc.).

So - Section 36 applies only to situations where a  foreigner is specifically trying to run a business that he is not supposed to be eligible to run, and doing so by the artifice of hiring Thai "front men".

As far as I can tell, if your business involves something other than the activities which appear on the prohoibited lists, the rule does not apply.

With that said, List 3 is a pretty general list, that covers a lot of activities.

Also, you can do just about anything here, if you get approval to do so from the BOI (where applicable) or the Department of Foreign Business.  On Friday, I received the company regsitration documents for a Thai Private Co.Ltd. in which the British majority shareholder holds 19,994 shares, and six Thais each own one share.  Theorectically, this should not be possible.  But there it was - and this company has been around for a couple of years, and has been procesed for several changes of address, directors, etc (we will be helping them accomplish a capitalization increase).

I asked the director how his situation came to pass - and he said:  "I always hear all this stuff about 51% Thai ownership, so when we went in, I asked if I could get an exception to run my trading business, and they said - no problem - and approved my registration."

So - I think the rules can be invoked when they feel like it, but Thai bureaucrats have discretion to grant exceptions.  

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

www.thaistartup.com

For a Thai Private Co. Ltd., there must initially be at least seven "promoters" as shareholders - even for a company started entirely by Thais.

Although I have not directly seen the Thai law, I understand that "nominee" shareholdersare not supposed to be used.  Nevertheless, it is VERY common for companiesto be formed with one or several shareholders holding a significant number of shares, and the balance of shareholders (to round out the seven) owning one share each.  This would seem to me to blatently represent use of nominees, but the registration office does not care.  By the way, the typical par value of a  share is 100 baht, so a company capitalized at, say 2,000,000 baht, will have 20,000 shares.

What is common is that "serious" shareholders secure the required shareholder headcount via use of "nominee" (proxy) Thai shareholders.   I should note that shareholdeer signatures are only needed for filing of the Memorandum of Association for a company - and are never needed again, unless their shares are sold.  Companies that offer registration services can typically come up with "warm bodies" who will sign as shareholders, and allow submission of copies of their identity documents, to make up the required quorum of seven individuals.  Typically, "serious shareholders" should expect to pay a one-time "honorarium" to nominees, for use of their services.   Depending on who these folks are, you are typically talking 2,000 - 8,000 baht per head.

Although many incorporation firms do not take this into account, nominees do have personal shareholder financial liability - up to the par value of shares for which they sign - in cases where registered capital is NOT paid in, and the company accumulates debts, and then defaults.  Astute companies will thus charge a significantly higher fee for nominees (as they are taking much greater risk) if you are forming a company without paying in the registered capital (and I know of very few companies formed by folks requiring nominees that can afford to pay-in their registered capital).

A common request by "serious investors" is that all nominee shareholders sign a blank share sale certificate, meaning that in the future, their shares can be transferred to another party without their knowledge (or - should they become a problem - they can be replaced).  This helps the "serious investors" sleep well at night.  It shouldn't.  Use of presigned share sale certificates is absolutely meaningless AS A PROTECTIVE MEASURE - because after you obtain their signatures on the blank certificates, nothing prevents the nominee from selling their shares to someone else, the moment you have departed.  New owners can then go have their share purchase registered - and what the "serious investors" are now holding (in total ignorance) are certificates by past shareholders, selling shares that they no longer own.  Use of pre-signed certificates is still a prtactical way of preparing for the eventuality of transferring proxy shares to another shareholder.  One tip - If you are paying 1,000 or 2,000 baht for nominees, you should not expect to ever be able to locate such shareholders again if you need them - your nominees are most likely motorcycle couriers, or cleaning ladies.  So it is a good idea to collect pre-signed share certificates for low-rent nominees.

If you are talking about the situation of giving 51% share ownership to four Thai strangers, you are probably very concerned about losing control of your company.  There is a fully legal way of drafting articles of incorporation so as to give the 49% shareholders a little more than 90.5% of voting power in shareholder meetings.  This is significant in that Thai law requires 75% of voting shares to be in support of significant shareholder actions - such as replacing directors, increasing capitalization, declaring dividends, and liquidating a company.

Final comment.  While my knowledge in this matter does not represent "ultimate truth" (whatever that is), I have NEVER heard of even one case of paid nominee shareholders (who are strangers to "serious investors") ever causing so much as a flicker of a problem to "serious investors."   Paid nominees accept their money, and in return do what they agreed to do - which is go "blind, deaf, and dumb" as far as the company is concerned, thereby "rubber stamping" (by default) whatever the "serious investors" come up with.   In most cases, I suspect that "serious investors" and "nominee shareholders" never have any contact with one another in their lives.

It is from within the ranks of the other "serious investors," or the "Thai girlfriend (or Thai wife, or farang wife) nominees" that ALL the problems arise.  Given the choice between using a non-investing friend (particularly an intimate friend of the opposite sex) as a nominee for free, or using a Thai stranger as a nominee for 5,000 baht per head - I would personally advise you to always go with the mercenary strangers - and you will always sleep well thereafter.

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

www.thaistartup.com

No one asked but.... see the bottom of my earlier post.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam

=

I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.

From:  

Uncommon Latin Phrases

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

James?

Do you have possession of your blue work permit booklet?

Steve

Indo-Siam

Hi Dr.-

I have three US passports covering more than 100 entries into USA between 1980 and 2002, and only a handful of times did I receive a stamp upon arrival in USA - and I have entered at Seattle, San Francisco, St. Louis, JFK, Miami, Atlanta, and (I think) Dulles.  I have not entered USA since summer of 2002, so there may be something new going on - but lack of a US Entry stamp has been routine over my adult lifetime.

Then again, my last passport had four extensions - over 100 pages total - so maybe they just decided it wasn't worth the effort!!!

The Thai MFA insists that mailing your passport to a Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad is illegal.

I suppose that you mean mailing it FROM THAILAND is illegal - because obtaining visa by mail from Thai Embassy in Washington was absolutely routine when I got my first Class O visa - but I was mailing from within USA.  They had a very specific mailing address just for mail-in passports with visa applications.

Original poster mentioned Malaysian entry and exit stamps, but no mention of Thai entry or exit stamps - I presume he understands that whatever is in the Thai immigration computer with respect to his last date of entry will determine the start of the "countdown" clock toward his required departure date.  I got a new passport six months back, such that I do not have ANY Thai entry stamps in my present passport - but I do have immigration stamp which defines the expiration of my present one-year extension.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Wow !   Interesting.  I've NEVER seen any discussion board allow this level of political "discussion".  More power to it.

The world has been spinning for a h*ll of a long time.  Hannibal and his Carthaginians have crossed the Alps; the Light Brigade made its fateful charge in the Crimea; Cortez and Pizzarro inflicted genocide upon an entire continent in the name of European plunderers; the Opium wars were fought over UK trying to defend its right to corner the opuium trade in China; European Christain Crusaders not only slaughtered Muslims by the thousands - the idiots wiped out Christain villages in the mideast because they were too ignorant to recognize ancient Christian practices; the Burmese sacked Ayuthaya and leveled Bang Rachan; and it goes on and on - Ghenghis Khan and the Mongols; the Moorish invasion by the Saracens; Picketts Charge at Gettysburg; tremendous fighters fighting for bad causes - the French (and the Legion) at Dien Bien Phu; the Japanese dominating Asian and the Pacific; the Germans under Hitler whomping up on three fronts (Russian, North African, Western); the Russians defending Stalingrad.  Pol Pot and Year Zero.  And - almost to my disbelief - Robert Mugabe proceeding with actions that have and will starve MILLIONS OF AFRICANS - and the world hardly makes a peep (certainly no one on this board seems to notice or care).

And the clock keeps on ticking.  Always, the armchair heroes squack and gnash their teeth.  Maybe best to recall the words of another American President, addressing the Sorbonne, April 23, 1910:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

Shame on the man of cultivated taste who permits refinement to develop into a fastidiousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a workaday world. Among the free peoples who govern themselves there is but a small field of usefulness open for the men of cloistered life who shrink from contact with their fellows. Still less room is there for those who deride or slight what is done by those who actually bear the brunt of the day; nor yet for those others who always profess that they would like to take action, if only the conditions of life were not what they actually are. The man who does nothing cuts the same sordid figure in the pages of history, whether he by cynic, or fop, or voluptuary. There is little use for the being whose tepid soul knows nothing of the great and generous emotion, of the high pride, the stern belief, the lofty enthusiasm, of the men who quell the storm and ride the thunder. Well for these men if they succeed; well also, though not so well, if they fail, given only that they have nobly ventured, and have put forth all their heart and strength. It is war-worn Hotspur, spent with hard fighting, he of the many errors and the valiant end, over whose memory we love to linger, not over the memory of the young lord who "but for the vile guns would have been a soldier..."

I'm an American.  I paid my military dues.  I'm not too pleased with what I see my government doing - and my heart bleeds for the American soldiers who have to walk patrols in Baghdad.  But - I'm not going to villify the whole thing in one broad swipe.  I agree that it wa a ridiculous position to take - saying that some third-rate dictator who didn't even control his own airspace or 25% of his land mass was a threat to the whole world.  Hey, the die are cast, and we've crossed the Rubicon.  One thing I will say - compared to most "victorius" armies of history, the American Army, as a whole, has been about the most benevolent victors the world has ever seen - starting with how we ended one of the most bitter and deadly civil wars ever fought, through to the rebuilding of Germany and Japan (and I walked through the rubble of the Reichstag in Berlin in 1984 - so I know what the alternative looks like).  Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan - and now EYE-RAK.  Too bad America can't seem to figure out that the rest of the world doesn't really share (or even want to share) American values.

In the recent past, being a "Superpower" meant that, if a SUPAPAWA wanted to, it could turn any patch of real estate on the globe into a glowing glass parking lot.  Today it means that - if it wants to - Uncle Sam can put a cruise missile through any one meter opening on the planet, or circle a predator drone over any spot it wants, waiting for a target to step into view.  Where to next?

I figure the "next big thing" will be a major attack on the Internet itself - the root servers and the rest - by some malcontents who figure out how to do some SERIOUS damage that way.  Probably within the next 6-9 months.  This board will be disrupted along with the rest.  But - long-term, what will the outcome be?  Well, the "bad guys" (aka "freedom fighters") ain't got a Microsoft; ain't got a Cisco; ain't got an Intel - and I suspect that - once again - "that which does not kill us shall make us strong".  

And - America - under its current leadership - is going to have to go fix the mess.  And - they will.

'Just thought I'd cover a bit of new ground.........just to keep the discussion interesting.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Indo-Siam

You might find useful information at

ThaiSarn

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

My comments are to Ross -

I am in the business of incorporating foreign-launched companies here - work permits, entry permit extensions, and related activities.

With that said, if you earn all of your income from global clients, working via a dial-up connection from a residence in Thailand, you need not really bother with Thai labor regulations.  They are years away from catching up to (or even caring about) such work.

Some folks here will disagree and say that you are risking all sorts of bad endings by "working without a work permit", but such folks have a weak understanding about how Thai law really works.  Police are not particularly significant figures in the big picture of Thai law - it is Thai judges in courtrooms that matter, and they follow fairly normal (in western terms) rules of evidence - and it is unlikely that anyone could be convicted of working on the internet from home (barring kiddie porn, brokering fissionable materials, and similar very narrow fields that are on the global "search and destroy" lists).

Concerning working from a residence - There is no regulation prohibiting this.  What is required by revenue department is that building owner certify that your business is a registered tenant, and that a company sign be displayed outside the entrance to the business.  I have never figured out exactly why many/most residential building owners decline to allow businesses to operate - I have assumed that it either increases revenue department scrutiny on rental income, or else irritates other residential occupants who dislike living in a "business building".  But it is between you and the building owner.  Or - you can operate from a "virtual office" - my company has several client companies legally registered at our address, under an arrangement with my building owner.  Your "office" is in an office building, and you work from home.  It costs you a small amount, by western standards.

Concering cost of launching a business and obtaining work permit and extended entry permit - the costs might break a lowlife in Bangkok, but would not even raise an eyebrow with any true western professional - US $2,000 tops, with all the trimmings.  Capitalization requirement is likewise not very significant for a professional (it is the amateurs who whine).  You don't "lose" this money - you just have to demonstrate by having it that you have a life track record of having accumulated some success.  Once capitalization is paid in, you are free to use the money as you see fit.  And - of late - they don't even check you actual pay-in - if a director says it's paid-in, that's good enough.  Where things get tougher is renewing a work per it for a company that has been in business for awhile = once you have an annual financial report, they want to see it - and if you are a failing business, they turn out the lights on your work permit.  'Seems resaonable to me.

I've been doing this work for a couple of years.  Where I have seen clients loose in dealing with prfessional services firms is when they place their trust in the rock-bottom price performers - offering "too good to be true" pricing for services.  Well, such offers are no different than "too good to be true" in any other field.  The lowest price deliverers go out of business regularly here - taking client's funds with them.  To me, this just represents the process of natural selection for idiots who have no business starting businesses in Bangkok anyway.

The one place where you will face problems is if you want to work for Thai clients who rightfully want to list your billings as business expenses (instead of paying 30% corporate tax on "profits" that are actually expense monies they already paid to you).  You need to have a Thai corporate tax ID number, and you need to collect 7% VAT on behalf of the Thai government.   So - what you do is place Thai clients off limits.  That's the price you pay for not playing the game here.  And - you have to play the endless visa run game.  If you are here for the long-haul, it doesn't take too long for the cost of not incorporating to exceed the cost of going legititimate.

I did not make the rules - I just help people comply with them - as efficiently as possible.

There are basically three main farang populations around Bangkok - the "bulletproof" professional employees and entrepreneurs at one end of the spectrum, the professionally dodgy lowlifes at the other end, and the "lets just all get along" Rodney King stumblers and passers-through in the middle.  All three populations welcome newcomers to their ranks - and there are reasonably good blokes to be found in all three camps.  Lots of teeth-gnashing goes on (particularly on this board) concerning which group represents the "one true faith", but it's all just chatter.

You have to decide who you want to be.  As I understand them, your reasons for wanting to stay here are pretty much the same as mine.   So - which camp do you want to claim as your place on the spectrum?  "Up to you".

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

www.thaistartup.com

p.s. What I love about making a post like this - on this board - is that I will put up a wide-ranging view, including some vaguely disparaging remarks about low-lifes at one end of the food chain, and - sure as dawn follows darkness - some idiots will reply back whining about how I demeaned and insulted them by calling them lowlifes - when all I did was describe a spectrum of humanity - and the whiners are basically self-selecting themselves as low-lifes.  Step right up boys - who wants to be the demeaned low-life this week?????

Although I have received entry stamps from US before (on maybe 15 out of 110 entries), it is not normal for US to stamp Americans in or out.   Thailand could care less about stamps from other countries, except as a way to match against matching stamps in or out of Thailand.

I am unclear as to where you are at the moment, but if you are outside Thailand, have a valid passport, and no illegal entry or exit stamps from Thailand in that passport, AND IF THE THAI VISA YOU HAVE IS GENUINE, then you have no potential problem that I can see.

If you are inside Thailand, and Thai visa was issued overseas since your last recorded entry (with no exit since), then you may potentially have a problem.   But - I do not know of a specific Thai law that you violated - so long as you have not overstayed your present entry permit.  It is perfectly legal to apply for a visa by mail, and Thailand has no real say over movement of foreign passports themselves.  What is likely is that you may be asked to explain how you obtained the TX visa while in Thailand - and if you lie, and are caught, then you have an immediate problem with making a false statement.  So - you may have to "give up" your source - but I'm not sure they even did anything wrong (Thailand does not "own" passports issued by another country).

Does anyone else know if Thailand rules it unlawful to have defacto evidence that a foreign passport was out of your possession for some period while you were inside Thailand - even though you have it in hand now?      

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Hi Rainer -

I do not understand why you are doing the first step (5 April, in the example).  Just wait until about 18 April, and go do the entry permit renewal (early).  Then you go to Labor Dept and get matching work permit renewal.  This eliminates one trip to Labor Department.

Or - am I missing something?

Steve

Indo-Siam

WL -

The key thing you need to know is that you must first apply for renewal of your extended entry permit, and then, each time you get extended, you go to Ministry of Labor and get your work permit renewed to match the new entry permit.  Based on how long Immigration takes to approve your renewed entry permit extension (typically 8-10 weeks), you will probably have to get several interim work permit renewals, plus the final one-year work permit once your long-term entry permit is finally approved.

Work permits generally expire on the same date as the entry permit you have at the time you pick up the work permit.  That is why extending/renewing the entry permit must come first.

Good luck!

Steve Indo-Siam

www.indo-siam.com

www.thaistartup.com

My two satang (or is it two books?):

All The Trouble in the World  by  P.J.O'Rourke

The Ends of the Earth by Robert D. Kaplan

The Sorrow of War by Bao Ninh

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

Camster -

I will not try to give you a comprehensive reply - just some points to consider.

First - you will receive a 90 day entry permit upon arrival.  I am assuming that you have a one-year, multiple entry visa.  So - at the end of 90 days, you must do something - either obtain an extension, or make a "visa run" to cross the border, and then re-enter, at which pount you will get another 90 day entry.

The Class B visa does make you elegible to apply for a work permit here - meaning that if you can find a qualifying employer, and that employer offers you a qualifying job/salary, you can legally work and get paid inside Thailand.

Alternately, you can start your own company here, and work for that company - provided you structure things so that you meet qualifying criteria - the two most significant ones being company capitalization at 2 million baht (which is supposed to be paid in), and having at least four Thai employees.

If you get a work permit, you are eligible to apply for an extended entry permit - allowing you to remain in Thailand continuously for the remainder of the 12 months following your initial entry into Thailand.  And, upon expiration,  that extended entry permit can then be renewed for another year - and so on - until you are eligible for permanent residency.

Concerning working independently to run an on-line business.  Go ahead.  You will be totally invisible to Thai authorities.  Just do not indicate on the website that your business location is Thailand.  Working on the Internet is virtually indistinguishable from playing on the net.  Every high-end hotel here has a business center where businessmen (working, or on holiday) use computers and fax machines to check up on their overseas businesess,  You will simply be doing the same thing - but from an apartment.  If you have a laptop, and get a Hutch/Sierra Aircard, you can basically work from anywhere.

I see that your business is stock photography.  The one way that you could theoretically get in trouble here would be to try to sell content to customers inside Thailand - customers whose accounting department wanted tax receipts for monies paid to you locally.   Even this could be side-stepped by invoicing clients from Canada, and issuing receipts from there.  Only a paper trail of money exchanges inside Thailand could really hurt you.

The other way to get in trouble here would be to accept a paid job here - going to work every day in a structured way, performing a job with structured responsibilities, and receiving a predictable salary from an employer - all without a work permit (which is needed in order to have income tax withheld).  You would then be working illegally.  Lots of people do that, and it is rare that someone gets caught, but you become vulnerable to extortion - and if someone goes out of their way to point you out to authorities, you are potentially in serious trouble.

One other approach -  I run a website business - as described at Siam Website.  I have always had it in the back of my mind to set up a "sister" operation called SiamImageBank - at that or a similar domain.   My company has 3 million baht paid-in capital, plus seven Thai employees.  My company could create a job for a second foreigner by simply hiring one more Thai, and increasing capitalization to 4 million baht (and paying in one million additional capital).  Me, or someone like me, could add you to their team - with the requirement that you pay-in one million in capital, which is then used to pay your salary for 18 months.  Now, you have fully legal job in Thailand - and work for a company that can legally distribute content, invoice, and issue receipts in relation to business inside Thailand.   You would have to strike a deal whereby you became a contributing profit center for your Thai employer - even as you ran your own overseas business "on the side" (actually - most of the time).  This might be as simple as offering free photo content for your employer's Thai website clients - with your employer collecting some premium from clients.  If you are interested in exploring this sort of direction, come see me once you are on the ground - and I will lay out to you "the rest of the story" (there is more to this business plan).  No obligation either way.  

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

www.indo-siam.com

The direct answer to your question is "no".  You can be both a shareholder and a director without having a work permit.  You do not even have to be located in Thailand.

What is significant is that within Thailand, in most cases, you cannot exercise legally binding signature authority as a director unless you have a non-immigrant visa and work permit.

Being a director is not sufficient to qualify you for a work permit.  In most cases, in order for you to be eligible for a work permit, your company will need to have 2 million baht registered capital (it is supposed to be paid-in, but this is not being strictly enforced lately) and four Thai employees per work permit, and you will need to be receiving a salary at a level that pays at least 18,000 baht in annual personal income taxes.  You will also need to be here on a non-immigrant entry permit, and have qualifying DOCUMENTED educational or work-experience-based credentials.

I am citing the letter of the requirements - in practice, there are some variations in how things are enforced and interpretted.

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

www.indo-siam.com

Ice -

Assuming that the visa that you originally used to enter Thailand was single-entry (or has expired), then the re-entry permit is valid up until the expiration date of the entry permit that you had when you received the re-entry permit.

All the re-entry permit does is keep your present entry permit "alive" while you are absent.  It dose not extend that entry permit.

So - if you have only a 30 day entry permit to start with - don't even bother with the re-entry permit.  If you have substntial time remaining on a  60 or 90 day entry permit, or a one-year extended entry permit - and that timing exceeds the duration of your absence from Thailand - then it makes sense to go for a re-entry permit.

The above does not read very well - this sequence is not easy to articulate.  'Hope it makes sense to you.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

I wrote lemonade - I meant lemon tea (in a hurry).

I have no experience with extensions of entry permit for students - so I can't help.  But the immigration offices are closed 17-23 October.

I have to asume that you need something to show that you are enrolled as a student - stiudent ID card, or letter from educational institution.  Always come with copies of all personal documents - and you should have signed each page in ink - and also bring originals.  They always want to see originals (which they return to you) - they keep the copies.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

Lemonade -

Immigration is shut down next week until Friday - for APEC + Chulalongkorn day, plus they just threw in the 22nd for fun.  Friday the 24th should be bedlam.

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

Hi -

There is a specific page in your blue work permit booklet where the number of required Thai employees (to support that work permit) is listed - it is a typed-in entry on a small line that appears in the middle of a Thai sentence - and that sentence is the only thing on that page.  The entry on that line in my booklet is "4".  In your booklet, it must be "7".  I understand that the number was higher in the old days.  I can state with absolute certainty that the number in my booklet (and what they required me to document in May 2002) was four.  I now have seven Thai employees, so it is a moot point for me.

I have never taken the time to personally look at the work permit booklets of my clients - but we have consistently gotten work permits with exactly four Thais documented for one work permit.  We have never actually processed two work permits for one company simultaneously, so I cannot attest to the methodology used in that case.

Concerning the required pay-in, in fact, there has not recently been a requirement to document actual pay-in of cash to a company account.  What has been required is a statement signed by a director stating that 2 million baht has been paid in - per each work permit.  I also understand that this amount used to be lower.

The official MOL site for work permits is at:

http://www.doe.go.th/workpermit/index.html    They clearly have an intention to post an English version, but that link is currently not operational.  My ability to read Thai is not good enough to wade through all this.  The site appears to show very many references to dates of changes in rules.

I suspect that once a company has a work permit for one of its principals, the rules are "grandfathered" for that company, for its ongoing operations.

My firm's most recent submissions (in Bangkok) for both work permit renewals and one-year employment-based entry permit extensions was - yesterday.  But the work permit was for a company that had significantly more than four Thais per its lone foreigner, and it also had 3 million baht paid in capital.

Final comment.  I did correspond several months ago with someone on this borad who obtained a work permit in Pattaya for a new company with only one million baht company capitalization.  My experiemce suggestthat this is impossible - but he did it.  So - there appears to be some room for discretion - at least in some jurisdictions.

Steve

Indo-Siamm

www.indo-siam.com

I most cases (exceptions being schools, and certain professional and consultantcy practices), for a Thai Private Co. Ltd., the Labor Department rules specify that for each foreign work permit, you must have four Thai employees, plus 2 million baht in paid-in capital.  Plus you must be paid a salary of at least a certain amount.

For a new company, they accept identity documents for the required number of workers, plus a chart or list of employees that specifies their job position, and their monthly salary.  This is all you need to get the initial work permit for a new company.

If it is an already established company, or come time for renewal of your work permit, they require social fund pay-in receipts for four Thai employees per employed foreigner - and they will only count as qualifying employees those employees who have had social funds paid in for at least the preceding three months - last minute hires are disallowed.

Concerning the "O" visa, you are eligible to apply for a work permit based on an entry permit granted on the basis of a Class O visa - that is how I got mine.  You are also then able to get your entry permit extended for a year based on employment - that is my present status.

Good luck!

Steve

Indo-Siam

www.indo-siam.com

ITM -

Our experience at BKK Labor Ministry is that you must have something to "check the block" with respect to qualifying educational credentials.  If someone is a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, but has no college degree, citing the MCSE qualification and attaching a copy of the certificate works. We have been told that a letter from a former employer stating that you performed well in a job that required the same skills (= same job) that worker will do here in Thailand will also work.  But having just a secondary school education, and no documented prior training or work experience in the field of work for which you are applying, and chances of success are slim.

Similarly, any educational credentials for which you cannot attach a supporting document are disallowed.

Unrelated question for you - ###### - when you have a Thai run company registration papers around on behlaf of a client, are you required to attach a Bor Or Jor 1 coversheet?  If so, whose certifying signature do you use in extreme lower left hand corner of that form?  My staff insists that this requires a lawyer's signature, with a copy of his lawyers license card attached.   In an earlier thread, you mentioned tht you needed no lawyer - you had an accountant carry the papers.  What I am wondering is whether a licensed auditor can sign this form, if we attach his professional license card.  Any thoughts on this?

Steve

Indo-Siam