Indo-Siam

It is very easy and straightforward to start or acquire a business here.  Anyone can do it, with sufficient funds.

Running a business here to prosper and build wealth is - in my opinion - very hard for a foreigner.  The ratio of failures to successes is probably 40 to 1 - or worse.

If you are a wealthy eccentric, and you just want "some business" to own as a hobby - then no problem.

If you want to build wealth, then a good early step would be to prepare a formal business plan - with particular emphasis on cash flow projections.

I will point out my situation - I started a business here 16 months ago.  It appears to me that I will most likely hit break-even, on a month-to-month basis, with a comfortable life style, at about month 18.   It will then probably take me another 4-5 more YEARS to recover the money I put in over the first 18 months. So - wealth-wise, I will break even for the whole period at about the end of year 6.   That means 6 years of working hard to just stand still, wealth-wise.  And I am not even assured of achieving my own projections.

Building wealth here is really hard.

Do you really have no clear image of the type of business you want to be in?  It seems VERY odd to be approaching the idea of running a business by simply looking for which businesses to avoid.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

I'm sorry, but the reality is that virtually all trade show visitors, conference attendees, people coming to Thailand to perform pre-shipment inspections on capital goods assembled here, etc. are welcomed and can get all sorts of assistance from Thailand - even after entering with a visa on arrival.  

All the nay-sayers here refer to a "toursit visa".  These are the same folks who talk about "visa extensions" - which do not exist (there is no such thing).  Folks - if you are from most western countries, you do NOT get a 30-day "tourist visa" when you arrive.  What you get is a "visa on arrival" - the passport stamp says on the Visa Class line simply "30" (go ahead - look at yours).  "Tourist" visa is a misnomer.  The immigration rule does not specify "visa on arrival" as a tourist visa - but visiting tourists are a typical recipient.  If YOU check the "tourism" block on the entry TM card, then YOU are specifying that you are a tourist.

On your arrival TM card, do not check "tourist" - check "other" and then write in "purchasing trip".  or "visiting vendors".   As long as they then stamp you in (which they will), then you are absolutely legal.

The second key to all this is that you are EXPORTING Thai-made goods.  You can talk to Thai exporters all day, with bells on.

The PM himself, or the labor Minister, or the Chief of Police would all smile warmly as you worked out details of purchasing and exporting Thai products.

For my first 20 months living here, I worked regionally, and simply lived here as a convenient hub.  I travelled so much that I simply let my Class O visa expire,and simply lived on 30 day visas on arrival.  I always checked "other" and then wrote in "reside in Bangkok".  I did this maybe 50 times.  I never got even a second look.   You are not a "tourist" unless YOU say you are.

Concerning the Rep Office - the key to what sort of overseas incorporated entity qualifies as a "Head Office" is really up to your local Thai embassy.  AThai consular official must certify the affidavit that describes the nature of the head office (the affidavit must include various specified details).  If the Thai embassy overseas issues the certification, then no one on this side will question it (literally - they cannot question anything about a head office overseas that has been diplomatically certified - all they can do is review the documentation that must be submitted here that describes the office in Thailand).

There is a financial remittance requirement - you must remit into Thailand five million baht - one million first 6 months, one million second 6 months, and one million each of the next three years.  These funds are expected to be used to carry out rep office functions - including paying the staff.

If an Alien Business License is issued to a Rep Office, then two work permits are automatically authorized.  Once you have work permit, you are entitled to an employment-based entry permit extension.  These are not "maybe" items - they are items that WILL follow, if an ABL is issued, and you submit required application attachments (and demonstrate that required funds have been remitted).

I can supply additional details about Rep Offices - send PM requests to [email protected].

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Greg -

I have learned that if you literally hit the absolute legal minimums right on the head, this triggers closer scrutiny.

I specialize in getting work permits quickly - my most recent client got his on day 24 after he touched ground in Thailand.

If every checklist factor is exactly borderline, your packet goes for supervisor review.  If you plus-up a bit, the lowest worker bees are allowed to "rubber stamp it".

Miminum wage for Thais working in Bangkok full time is something like 5,897 baht - I just bump that t0 6,000.

I also feel that anyone who finds it necessary to borderline every item on the list has a very small chance of being successful here.  

But - folks - technically, Sunbelt and his lawyers are correct about the absolute legal minimums.   But - expect extra processing delays if you just meet the minimums.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

1.  Visas are issued outside Thailand.   Policies for non-immigrant B vary from embassy to embassy.  Some places (such as honorary consuls - one in New Orleans comes to mind) virtullay give away one-year Class B's upon request and payment.  It is between you and your local Thai embassy to extract a one-year Class B.  Basically tell them that you are planning to start a company in Thailand, if you can verify via some extended research that your business plan is viable.  Then conduct your research forever, without reaching a conclusion.   Get that visa - preferably a one-year version.

2.  Upon arrival into Thailand, you will be issued a 90 day entry permit.  You now have 90 days free ride.  Carry on your business via telecommuting.  No one in Thai government has any problem with that.   Every 90 days, you will have to make a "visa run", to get a new entry permit.  Or you can use a dodgy service to send your passport on a trip without you (I do not advise this, but some people swear by it).  Make sure that you get a multiple-entry re-entry permit before departing on your first trip outside Thailand - so that your visa status remains valid.

3.  Virtually every serious businessman who comes to Thailand for a 30 day vacation spends some time checking up on his business back home.  That is what you will be doing - just at a more intense level.  The Thai government does not care.

4.  Forget work permit.  That only applies if you have an employer, that has a formal workplace address in Thailand.

5.  Without a work permit, you cannot get an extended entry permit.

6.  At the end of your first year, you will have to obtain another one-year visa - again, from an Embassy outside Thailand.  This is the first time that you may face complications - an embassy may be reluctant to issue back-to back Class B visas, with no sign of actual employment along the way.  Success will depend upon your creativity and charm.

Eveything I write above applies only if no aspect of your business activities involves customers or suppliers from inside Thailand.

If you flow significant money into a Thai bank account continuously, you might theoretically face income tax liability here.  But it would be very hard to even obtain a personal income tax registration card here, without a local employer.

The key sequence to understand - if you can get a one year Class B visa - which must be obtained outside Thailand - then issuance of a 90 day non-im entry permit upon arrival is automatic - they do not ask questions or think about it - the visa issued with the King's Garuda emblem on it directs that you be granted entry on non-im status.

Once you are here on a 90 day non-im entry permit, no else in Thailand has any say about your presence here - it has been allowed by the immigration gatekeepers, and no one else here has any right to challenge that.

Once you are here, working out of a hotel suite or apartment, with FAX, computer, handphone, etc., communicating exclusively with business contacts outside Thailand - that is no one else's business.  

Good luck.

Indo-Siam

Jopihu -

You asked the question, so I will provide you with an answer.  Disclaimer - I run a business that helps overseas clients incorporate here, and obtain work permits and visas.

You can come here and set up a company - effectively just a holding company.  That company can then buy property, run a restaurant, perform property management services.

You start the company, and then work as Managing Director.  Hire four Thais (one cook, one bartender, one waitress, and your gf as restaurant manager - or a maid, a gardner, a cook, and your gf as property manager) - because you need to employ four Thais earning at least 6,000 baht per month each, to get a work permit.  You also need to bring in 2,000,000 baht as initial capitalization funding, to qualify for work permit.  You may then spend this money - to buy house and furniture, car, etc.  You will also need to pay yourself at least 50,000 baht per month.

Everything I describe above is completely legal.  There is an issue about majority Thai ownership of company - which we can help you work out.

Cost of this approach - roughly 1,600 Euro to start (company registration, work permit, visa) , plus maybe 1,000 Euro to cover establishment of legal office address (office deposits, landlord certificate of occupancy, etc.) plus maybe 800 Euro per month for Thai staff salaries, bookkeeping, office maintenance, etc.

We can get company set up and work permit issued within about five weeks.  Entry permit extension takes about another six weeks.

If interested in further details, contact me at [email protected].

Regards,

Indo-Siam

Hi.  I am replying to give you a feel for how things work here.

I run a company that, among other things, operates a division to establish an initial website presence for clients of our other divisions - www.siamwebsite.com .

I do not promote this division much, as my production "bandwidth" is limited.  I recently turned away two jobs, because I am already backlogged.

With just a little promotion, I could probably pull in six jobs per month.  If I had a developer who could knock out a website every five days or so, I could probbably pay that individual 60,000 baht per month - not good earnings by western standards, but liveable here in Thailand.

But - I cannot providea legal job.  To obtain a work permit for an additional farang, I would need to hire four more Thai employees, plus pay in an additional 2,000,000 baht in capitalization funding - which I cannot afford to do at the moment.

This last part is the problem.  Hiring a farang requires four Thai employess and 2,00,000 baht capitalization per farang head.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

Thailand is very happy to assist anyone interested in exporting Thai products.  The government is heavily pro-export.

You may purchase whatever you want here and export it, using a legal shipping organization (post office, or whatever).  You will not have any problems.

Without a business here that has an export liecense, you will NOT be eligible to apply for refund of VAT taxes paid for products that were exported - which you can do if you run a legal business.  But - even for legal companies, obtaining such refunds is a long, hit-or-miss prospect.

If you wated to go legal, with long-term entry permit and work permit, you would need to open a Representative Office - which is a special legal category.  But such an office can only be established on behalf of a coporate legal identity that exists somewhere outside Thailand - not a private individual.

A Rep Office must obtain an Alien Business License - 42,000 baht,plus processing fees (my company does the processing for 8,000 baht).   This license then allows you to obtain work permit and entry permit extension, and export license.

Unless VAT refund is significant to you, or you need extended entry, or you wish to sign contacts or maintain control over a corporate bank account here - I do not see any need for you to get work permit or non-immigrant entry permit.

If you have no place of employment here, receive no local salary here, and issue no local purchase orders or invoices, Thai government will not view you as being employed - any more than a trade show visitor who is here sourcing products.

I run a company that both assists foreigners with incorporation, work permits and entry permit extensions, and that also runs a division that provides sourcing assistance to  overseas clients interested in sourcing products or services from Thailand.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

My core business here in Thailand is helping non-Thais incorporate here, and obtain work permits and entry permit extensions.

If you enter Thailand on a non-immigrant visa, you may obtain a work permit, and also a one-year entry-permit extension based on employment.

It does NOT matter what sort of non-immigrant visa you have at the time that you enter Thailand - O or B.

The key here is that the term "visa" applies to a stamp that is issued by the a consular official who works for the Foreign Ministry somewhere outside Thailand.  A "visa" is an authorization to enter Thailand.  At the port of entry, Immigration officials (part of the Police, which belong to Interior Ministry) issue you an entry permit.

Once you are INSIDE Thialand, your original VISA status is irrelevant.  What is important is your entry permit.

There is literally no such thing as a "visa extension."  Visas are NEVER extended.  If a visa expires, you must obtain a new visa outside Thailand.  What everyoine refers to as a "visa extension" is actually an "entry pemit extension".

My own personal one year entry permit extension is based on employment, and was based on an initial 90 day entry permit extension issued against a single-entry Class O visa issued by the Thai Embassy in Vientienne.

What is true is that the entry permit stamp issued at a point of entry will include a scawled "non-im o" written in at time it is issued.  Neither Labor Department nor Immigration Department care whether this says "non-im O" or "non-im B".

Indo-Siam

Operating a restuarant is OK.

Prohibited occupations:

Labour

Work in agriculture, animal breeding forestry, fishery or general farm supervision

Masonry, carpentry, or other construction work

Wood carving

Driving motor vehicles or non-motorised carriers, except for piloting international aircraft

Shop attendant

Auctioning

Supervision, auditing or giving services in accounting, except occasional international auditing

Gem cutting and polishing

Hair cutting, hair dressing and beautician work

Hand weaving

Mat weaving or making of wares from reed, rattan, kenaf, straw or bamboo pulp

Manufacture of manual fibrous paper

Manufacture of lacquerware

Thai musical instrument production

Manufacture of nielloware

Goldsmith, silversmith and other precious metal work

Manufacture of bronzeware

Thai doll making

Manufacture of mattresses and padded blankets

Alms bowl making

Manual silk product making

Buddha image making

Manufacture of knives

Paper and cloth umbrella fabrication

Shoemaking

Hat making

Brokerage or agency work, except in international business

Dressmaking

Pottery or ceramics

Manual cigarette rolling

Legal or litigation service

Clerical or secretarial work

Manual silk reeling and weaving

Thai character type-setting

Hawking business

Tourist guide or tour organising agency

Architectural work

Civil engineering work

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

If you have a 90-day entry permit issued gainst a non-immigrant Class O visa, you may obtain a work permit, and once you hvae that work permit, you may apply at immigration for a one-year extension of your entry permit on the basis of employment.

Immigration does not care what your ststus was at time that you obtained your entry permit - just that it was non-immigrant status.  The extension will be based on demonstartion of legal employment, not on the basis of the code letter of the visa that allowed you to get the entry permit.

I know this - my own 90-day class O entry permit was extended into a one-year, employment-based entry permit.

By the way, the "one year" actually starts from the date that your original visa was issued, outside Thailand.  My "one year" extension actually had only a little over eight months remaining, as of the date it was approved.

All of my comments are in relation to Immigration Headquarters at Soi Suan Phlu - I am not directly familiar with procedures at remote locations.

Cheers!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

www.indo-siam.com

On the work permit application form, you must list educational credentials.  You must then include as an attachment a copy of either a diploma or transcript from each educational institution listed.

As far as I have been able to tell, from applications that my firm has processed for clients, Thai Ministry of Labor does not take the time to verify academic credentials - or even if the school exists.  They just want to see a document that "looks right" with your name on it,so that they can "check the box".

Hope that helps.  I run a business that - among other things - processes work permits - www.indo-siam.com.

Good luck!

Indo-Siam

A "visa" can only be issued at an embassy outside Thailand.  Visas are issued overseas by representatives of the Foreign Ministry.

"Entry permits" are issued inside Thailand, at international entry points, by Thai Immigration, which is part of Police, which is part of Ministry of Interior.

When your employment with present company ends, and they cancel your work permit, this will result in curtailment of your current entry permit - you will have seven days to leave the country.

My firm (www.indo-siam.com) helps foreigners start companies here, process work permits, entry permit extensions, etc.

If your current employer would be cooperative, the way to proceeed would be to start company "Y" (with 2 million baht capital paid in, and four Thai employees), secure a second entry in your work permit for employment with company Y, and then terminate employment with first company.  Your present entry permit will remain valid.

If that is not an option, then you will need to leave Thailand to secure a new non-immigrant "B" visa overseas.  My firm provides our clients with a letter on our letterhead, indicating that we are contracted to start a company for this individual, and requesting that a non-immigrant "B" visa be issued.  This has not failed thus far.

You will then come back to Thailand with a non0immigrant Class B visa, and be issued a 90 day entry permit. You then need to start a company quickly - we can typically do this in about 20 days (including a nine-day waiting period) - less if our client is really well prepared (has an office location identified, and has landlord's certificate of occupancy already in hand).  Once company is incorportaed, we can then process a work permit - about another 30 days (less if client has all papers in order, quickly pays in 2 million baht capital, and has at least four Thai employees already lined up), including two week turn-around at Labor Department.  This work permit will only be valid until the end of client's present entry permit (whatever remains of the 90 days).

Once work permit is issued, we can then apply for one-year entry permit extension.  We can be ready with this packet as soon as work permit is issued.  We then submit request for extended entry permit.  This normally takes  six to 10 weeks to turn-around at Immigration - and if this delay takes you beyond your present entry permit, they will extend that entry permit 30 days at a time.  This means that you must also renew your work permit - possibly several times, for one month at a time.  Paying a bribe can help speed up approval of the entry permit application.

Once entry permit extension is granted, we can then apply (same day, same building) for a multiple entry re-entry permit.

At this point, you are done - except that you will still be on a short-term work permit.  So we can then renew the work permit one more time to match the remaining period on your "one year" entry permit extension  (NOTE: That "one year" will extend from the original issuance date of the Class B visa that you used to enter Thailand - not from the date that the entry permit extension is approved).

You mention possibly forming a BOI company.   If you form a BOI company and then capitalize at at least 30 million baht, you can then utilize the services of the BOI one-stop center for work permits and entry permit extensions - this is a really streamlined, efficient process - taking hours instead of months.

'Hope that helps.

Good Luck!

Indo-Siam