intune53

Heres an idea, stop being a bitter old man and blasting people that at least are prepared to do what they can to make sure justice is done. When you do nothing and you could have or worse just spit at people that are trying and doing it looks and sounds really pathetic and one sad personality

Maybe you just dont like seeing people trying to do something positive because you gave up trying in life or maybe you've always sucked up what the establishment has told you without question and cant think outside the box. Maybe you tried for a while and gave up, i dunno.

Its not your fault you ran out of positive energy, I pity you..

Dont worry I got someone to sign the petition on your behalf anyway

That is an extremely good point. I wonder how many other names have been entered into the petitions on other peoples behalf without their knowledge? And also how many names have been invented just to get the figures higher?

Those who created these petitions, did they first contact the victims families representatives to ask if the families approve? Has anyone considered that the families may not want this sort of attention and is disrespectful for people who are totally unrelated to take these matters into their own hands?

If you go and look at the comments in the petition right now you will see many people who personally knew David have signed and commented.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

@BIGJULES

"As I previously stated in one of my posts, now the police have there Patsies there will be trolls and RTP apologists coming in the forums spouting off pro RTP nonsense, I for one am choosing to ignore them because to be honest they are boring me, I suggest you do the same and they might go away.
They seem to know more then the Thais and seem to know what is best for Thailand, probably because they have businesses and may even have business interests with the RTP themselves ( its not uncommon)
Let's give these 2 men a fair trial and see what happens.
The thing that is absurd though is that it's not as if this is the first time the RTP have committed these kind of shenanigans but these pro RTP posters are acting like this is a one off. I think the RTP didn't forsee the level of public outrage this case would create and they may have finally bitten off more then they can chew. "

It does get boring I agree but I also think it's valid to counteract very primitive tactics which primarily consist of undermining the questioning of inconsistencies and saying "nonsense" to genuine questions about who was at the crime scene, apart from the named suspects. I think it's important the many people reading this forum do not become swayed by these trolls.

Silence tends to come after any logical response to what amount to school playground bullyboy tactics.
It would be interesting to see where resolution about the cctv footage comes from, if it does.

True but how many times do I habe to re iterate a point before it sinks into there thick heads?

I've spoken about the missing minutes of footage on more than one occasion and like i said previously it just gets tedious re posting the same points so that these morons understand how flawed this investigation is.

I know, me too, but if we stop talking about it it's likely it won't see the light of day in published official media. If we don't draw attention to it repeatedly-who will? Numbers matter. Not just TV members but the 100s of non members who are browsing these threads right now. Why do you think news from the police about the phone "confusion" came out in newspapers within the last 48 hours? It's because enough people online have been demanding inconsistencies are explained. Do you think they would have bothered if they thought noone was noticing? Same with the repeated mention of the cctv footage. Yes it might fade away unanswered but if it does at least we know we did the right thing.Using our voices is important when the young people tragically killed no longer have a voice.This is team work. Well done to everyone here who has the courage to keep speaking up until there are proper answers!

And there is also one particular voice missing right now. Sean.

Oh the irony!!

For the last couple of weeks the hang-them-high-brigade has been out in full force here on Thaivisa.

Now the police has "solved" the case and the very same posters come out in full force to defend the alleged culprits.

I am not saying, that the police has got it right, actually I doubt it very much, BUT IF. THat would be quite ironic, wouldn't it?

only if they provide DNA tests for the family, both sons, not just for the deceased pair, but also for to lady raped 2 years before, you know where the Son had 12 stitches in his foot jumping out the window as a perp...if they provide DNA I'll go away, in the meantime focus is on the mongrels!!!!

Please can you direct me towards the source/s of this story of the son being allegedly involved in a prior violent incident?newspaper?place?something i can search on google.

Thanks.Interesting indeed.

currently at 21, 496 supporters in favour of an independent investigation:-

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Please sign and share if you care.

In the comments of the petition you can see there are now many friends of David's who are signing the petition and want proper justice.

PLEASE SIGN AND SHARE.

@BIGJULES

"As I previously stated in one of my posts, now the police have there Patsies there will be trolls and RTP apologists coming in the forums spouting off pro RTP nonsense, I for one am choosing to ignore them because to be honest they are boring me, I suggest you do the same and they might go away.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

.

Please stop discounting facts and reality simply because they don't match with what you want to believe.

Sure as long as we all agree with your opinions the world is in order, just remember only your facts and your ( Thai) reality counts

Dear JohnThailandJohn-please take your own advice as it is wise and "please stop discounting facts and reality because they don't match what you want to believe"

You are failing to counterargue the issue of the missing footage. I'm afraid saying it's "nonsense" isn't very convincing.

As I stated, there is no missing footage. Police shared a video of somebody they wanted to identify walking to and from the crime scene area and guess what, this is the footage they shared with the public. Yes, the other 24 hours before and after were not shared as was the time between him going one way and the other.

Just because you want to see somebody else who appears in the video doesn't make this a coverup and doesn;t make a rich Thai family responsible for the crime. If there was something in the video police didn't want you to see they wouldn't have shared anything. Their goal was simply to identify the person they wanted to identify and that is the part of the video they shared.

Seriously, are you always like this or has this case just really wound you up for some reason? I know it has many but some of this conspiracy stuff is just so bizarre.

So JTJ, sticking to the facts and not resorting to your attempted psychological warfare tactics.

Have you actually seen the video?

Who do you think the man a few metres ahead of the suspect is that he would not warrant any mention, although he, whoever he is, was at the crime scene at the same time as the suspect?

Do you not think it would be good to rule out this unidentified person?

The whole tangled scapegoat debate hinges on exactly the issue you have outlined:- the question of whether police have identified "the person they wanted to identify," and discounted another individual or individuals who they did not want to identify. The edited video question needs resolving. I would welcome that.

In a bid to clear up confusing reports related to a cell-phone believed linked to the case, Prachum said the iPhone that was retrieved from the suspects belonged to Miller.

"The cell-phone of Witheridge was returned to her family on September 18," Prachum said.

Some reports incorrectly said the cell-phone found near the suspects' living quarters belonged to Witheridge, one reason the scapegoat story had gained momentum.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-murder-report-to-go-to-prosecutors-this-we-30244820.html

ok but thats today... the reports originally came from the police it was Hannahs....... so yet another contradiction in police statements... all very comforting.. not

The questions are rife due to the police and the way its all been handled, all youve proven by showing another contradiction is there is the need for a proper professional independent investigation.

Thanks

Well if this is true it's good to have it cleared up. Shame it was posted up here by the specific person who posted it though. I feel a little nauseous. Almost as if by exposing all these inconsistencies and shouting about them, we could be showing the police exactly where their chaotic investigation needs firming up, whether it is true or not.

There's no way someone who is a mole for the police could be on social forums for exactly that purpose could there!?!?

No that would be far too theatrical.

Oh, hang on...

Let's hear it for a "proper professional independent investigation."

Do you even see how more strange and embarrassing your paranoid conspiracy theories are getting as facts continue to show they are just unsupported BS pretending to be facts? Has it got to the point where now you need to make such outrageous conspiracy claims that nobody will even bother to address?

My ego is not attached to my belief that asking questions and questioning received wisdom and the origin of sources of information is important.

I'm not embarassed if anything I question is debunked. Debunk it and then we're getting closer to the truth.

Your stock responses seem to be limited to 1.saying issues raised by many are "nonsense" and 2. Attempting to undermine a poster in the style of a playground bully.

Not effective on me btw.

Please can you tell me more about the edited video footage, showing the side of an unidentified figure a few metres ahead of the "running man" suspect. I would really like to be able to discount this concerning evidence which suggests someone else was present as the suspect was leaving the scene of the crime?

Thanks in advance John

I'm amazed at the amount of people on this forum who vehemently defend these suspects when the reality is they don't know if they are responsible or not..Time will tell..It will be an international followed trial..

But lets hear the evidence against them before judging either way. You might actually be defending 2 brutal killers in you hope that its the people you already have decided to pin...

I'm not defending any killers, whoever they are.

I am defending justice which entails being sure that ALL guilty parties are tried, not just the convenient ones.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

.

Please stop discounting facts and reality simply because they don't match with what you want to believe.

Sure as long as we all agree with your opinions the world is in order, just remember only your facts and your ( Thai) reality counts

Dear JohnThailandJohn-please take your own advice as it is wise and "please stop discounting facts and reality because they don't match what you want to believe"

You are failing to counterargue the issue of the missing footage. I'm afraid saying it's "nonsense" isn't very convincing.

So if there is no scapegoat where are the missing minutes on the CCTV?

It appears (from reading csi la) that the main cctv footage which has been banded around with the guy in shorts walking back and forth was actually following someone on his way back....... Very strange that person is not in view, 2 seconds more of cctv would tell a whole different story

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=707139219363806

This nonsense is even more silly than the now debunked phone conspiracy. There are many hours of video the didn't share. What they shared is of the one man going to and away from the crime scene ... nothing more and nothing less. This was the man they wanted to identify.

Have you actually seen the allegedly edited video??????????

We are not raising the issue of hours of footage . We are raising the issue of a specific and crucial two minutes of footage in which, during playback in slow motion the side of an unidentified figure can be clearly seen walking a few metres ahead of the shirtless "running man".

I know this is going to be harder for you to debunk as it is plain as day to anyone viewing the video.

And yes, they did indeed share the video of "the man they wanted to identify" and by omittance they did not show the footage of the man they did not wish to identify. Here in lies the point which is obvious to everyone.

But wasn't David's phone found at the scene of the crime originally?

There is something that could be a phone in one of the photos but the resolution is too low to blow it enough to see exactly what it is.

a phone was found early in the investigation...no clue who it belongs to

The guy in the picture with the police is christopher ware-david' best mate and travelling companion who was initially detained then released at bangkok airport.

In a bid to clear up confusing reports related to a cell-phone believed linked to the case, Prachum said the iPhone that was retrieved from the suspects belonged to Miller.

"The cell-phone of Witheridge was returned to her family on September 18," Prachum said.

Some reports incorrectly said the cell-phone found near the suspects' living quarters belonged to Witheridge, one reason the scapegoat story had gained momentum.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-murder-report-to-go-to-prosecutors-this-we-30244820.html

ok but thats today... the reports originally came from the police it was Hannahs....... so yet another contradiction in police statements... all very comforting.. not

The questions are rife due to the police and the way its all been handled, all youve proven by showing another contradiction is there is the need for a proper professional independent investigation.

Thanks

Well if this is true it's good to have it cleared up. Shame it was posted up here by the specific person who posted it though. I feel a little nauseous. Almost as if by exposing all these inconsistencies and shouting about them, we could be showing the police exactly where their chaotic investigation needs firming up, whether it is true or not.

There's no way someone who is a mole for the police could be on social forums for exactly that purpose could there!?!?

No that would be far too theatrical.

Oh, hang on...

Let's hear it for a "proper professional independent investigation."

4 questions:

Are the sons of the headman still on the island, or have they departed now that their 24 hour DNA test cleared them?

Have the 2 men in Sean's photo been identified and tested?

Is the taxi/tuktuk driver who said he was offered 700,000 baht for a fake story still around and safe?

Is the friend of Hannah's who supposedly gave the cell phone to the police, the same cell phone that was 'found' in the room of one of the Burmese boys, available to confirm her actions, or at least reachable?

Yes I reckon either the DNA tests were in a queue of 100s. Or else they had the positive results and had the suspects under surveillance.

Regarding the question of whether others aside from the Burmese suspects were involved:-

...

The RTP must learn to control the mouths of their officers to stop the proliferation of misleading comments and accusations that have fueled all this. Some people here a snippet here, read a fb post there, and if it matches their world view and biases quote it as undeniable fact. Any comments that don't support their view must be lies and form part of some great conspiracy.

Has Mr. McAnna actually produced any evidence to support his comments? Does he seem a really credible witness?

Did the taxi drive offer any proof of his alleged beating in the attempt to bribe him to pervert the course of justice?

Has any body actually got evidence, real evidence, that boiling or other torture was used to extract confessions?

Has any body real evidence that the DNA tests of the influential Thai suspects were carried out? And what the results were?

Why is 2 minutes of a CCTV video film edited out? What do they show?

Why did a suspect keep out of sight for 10 days or so, then release some very dodgy CCTV images at a somewhat contrived media conference, where his mum issued a veiled warning on the defamation laws to the media?

How could 2 people have murdered 2 other people, with no noise to attract any attention? Difficult even with weapons, unless they pounced and knocked them out suddenly? Will the details of how the Burmese claim to have carried this out be made public, not the silly re-enactment?

Will the business about the phone be cleared up?...

Agree with your entire post, but sorry too long to quote in it's entirety...

Two points I think are missing:

Why did the police announce that 'Win' had confessed and implicated two accomplices, but only hours later the story changed and only two were charged? 'Win' being one of them.

There appear to be stab wounds on the victim (explained by Catweazle 17:21) matching those on Sean - but no use of such weapon was described in the re-enactment.

Other than this I think the most vital bit of evidence is the unedited cctv footage. If it's still in existence.

Please continue to request that we have access to the missing two minutes of CCTV footage.

This cannot be forgotten.

I agree. Changing their story about the allegations of them planting hannah's phone does not solve the other inconsistencies!!

Where is the authenticated timestamped video of potential suspect at bangkok university? Does it exist? Even if the still i have seen is authentic , it is dated 0916am. Plenty of time to get a speedboat to samui and one of the first flights of the day into bangkok.

Where is the missing two minutes from that night?????Who is the the other figure ahead of the "running man" that can clearly be seen on the slowed down footage posted on CSI LA?????

Is it ok to paste this from the nation today?(hope so!)

"

okay I'll be the first to say it. In respect for David and Hannah's family.

I can't believe how much people are claiming these Burmese are innocent with all the evidence piled up against them. People's logic? They are too small, don't look like a rapist or cold blooded murderers?!?!

The biggest mistake the police made was following half drunken or inebriated claims of people with NO forensics background. once the police (probably with help) followed their cigarette lead, they found the culprits quickly! 99.9% of every single rumor online was JUST that. Zero evidence backing it up. No actual smoking gun. Shocking people with crime scene photos doesn't prove anything. Showing people a phone that may have been turned into police after the murders prove nothing. Where is the smoking gun? A police report.? How do you know that wasn't the officers phone?

The Burmese ran off after the police

Spotted them on the beach? Why? They were scared to be deported ? The police know almost all Burmese workers are illegal. Why would the pick out just one innocent group ?

They were tortured with boiling water ?? Where is the smoking gun?? JUST another rumor. I didn't see any Burmese with burn marks. How did they know they were tortured ? Did they call and tell them? I doubt it.

One shared cigarette does not mean rape or murder. it means contact with the victim. One cigarette does not exclude unidentified others who may have also been there.

Actually forensics showing a wound made by a knife as opposed to the hoe that was reported as the murder weapon leaving a murder weapon missing proves..er..that they are missing one of the murder weapons and have falsely reported what kind of weapon was used perhaps.

The distinctive orange/pink phone with dark purple case belonging to hannah is available to view in tv forum on various pages, as well as viewable in various past photos of hannah that have been published online by newspapers and forums. This same very distinctive phone was clearly visible on a policemans desk the day after the murders during a thai news youtube video. An as yet unsubstantiated post from a friend of hannah's confirms the phone was given to the police on request the day after the murders.

Have you not been keeping abreast of the ongoing case?

The torture was reported formally to an NGO by Burmese diplomats. It appeared ten Burmese people were taken in and three were allegedly tortured. Hence this thread........

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

Don't know if it's only me but I've tried 5 or 6 times over the last 2 days to sign that petition and every time get the following error:

"Something went wrong loading that content. We're looking into it — please try again later."

It's working for me and the 10, 420 people who have signed it so far. It did produce that message to me one time when i was checking on how numbers are progressing.after several refreshes it worked again.There is alot of traffic to it.Keep trying!! Try this link (without the #share at the end)

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Dodgy looking date stamp

Even if the timestamp is authentic, a speedboat organised immediately from koh tao could most likely get to koh samui in time to board the 0615 flight to bangkok which gets in at 0745am. Or perhaps even the 0600 service which gets into bangkok at 0705.

So perhaps its authenticity does not have so much weight considering this.?

does anyone know how long it takes for a speedboat to travel between koh tao and koh samui?

Dodgy looking date stamp

Even if the timestamp is authentic, a speedboat organised immediately from koh tao could most likely get to koh samui in time to board the 0615 flight to bangkok which gets in at 0745am. Or perhaps even the 0600 service which gets into bangkok at 0705.

So perhaps its authenticity does not have so much weight considering this.?

Ongoing glaring inconsistencies in evidence.Ie Evidence that is conflicting does not mean "it is time for people to accept their suspicions were wrong"(or words to that effect Johnthailandjohn) Or almost wrong. Almost wrong is also almost right. Not to be pedantic but `i think the reason why you are getting strong reactions from your posts is because your critical thinking faculty is flawed.

I want justice and justice can only come from all inconsistencies in evidence being resolved. Nearly resolved or "set aside" to never be resolved for convenience is not justice at all. And something that is "almost" true is certainly in part-a lie.

It seems you know nothing of previous cases where police have manipulated dna in thailand to frame people. The "conspiracy" theories are based on context, history and recurring trends of cover-ups as well as the numerous ignored conflicting evidence in this tragic case.