intune53

'accused recant confessions' http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

Is it already starting to unravel or is this just a misquote by Coconuts?

Could be a misquote...

However, the link he quotes doesn't appear to lead to Irrawady or the other source posted here earlier today. it leads to this article:

http://7daydaily.com/story/22259#.VDQWC7vLgnC

Can anyone translate burmese reliably?

Also I notice thaipbs is publishing the opposite. JTJ is posting all about it on another thread.

Hmm, Thai media and Burmese media contradicting each other. Make of that what you will.......

This is building momentum now, the telegraph has written an article now saying that the Burmese guys could ne scapegoats and that the RTP's conduct in the case has been questionable at best.

Keep it going people the petition was at 36000 last time I checked

I contacted Tom Phillips from the Telegraph on Sunday and exchanged a few emails with him. I'm so glad they've published an article, and a very well written one at that. This will put questions into a huge audience here in the UK who may not have been following events. Hopefully other news agencies will follow suit.

Lausie,

I am all out of likes today but you are utterly brilliant.Good work-well done, I commend you highly!!! Keeping this story hot in the British press is vital right now. The telegraph is well respected and usually other press follows suit.They can not do so quickly enough.

Petition now at 42,000 signatures and as it is mentioned in the telegraph article it can only go up and quickly.

Well done Tom Phillips.Come on UK press, follow his lead, time is of the essence.

http://www.telegraph...ns-murders.html

Please share everywhere.

" Tom Phillips retweeted

Mark Kent @KentBKK · 20m20 minutes ago

Latest UK statement on Koh Tao investigation in this article. Embassy team continues to be closely engaged. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html …

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Tom Phillips @tomphillipsin · 5h5 hours ago

British Foreign Office says Thailand must address fears of Koh Tao murder cover-up "thoroughly and transparently" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11145536/Thai-police-deny-cover-up-of-Britons-murders.html …

'and the confession of the suspects at the presence of their lawyers'.

Is this the same guy who said they didn't have a lawyer because they didnt ask for one ?

Just how many more times are they going to cock up.

Oh and since when does some bushes outside of some ones window count as their possession.

why can't they stay on script?

Didn't the end of last week an NGO confirm they sent /sending the suspects lawyers? Is it possible and likely the lawyers have since talked to the suspects and police?

"Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness.

“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

From today's article on http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Some rights groups have voiced concern over the lack of legal representation for the men.

"The suspects have been kept without legal representation. We still don't have lawyers observing the process directly," said Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, a human rights activist.

"So we are suspicious about the judicial process in terms of these alleged confessions."

Police chief Somyot said the suspects had made no request for lawyers.

"They haven't asked for lawyers. If they had asked for lawyers we would have provided lawyers for them as this is their basic right." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/03/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKCN0HS07H20141003

Now suddenly the lead investigator Mag Gen Suwat claims during the interrogation and confession both these boys had a lawyer present and representing them. ( Bkk post article) "Police defend Koh Tao investigation. "

Come on Reuters!BBC?! UK newspapers?-Where are your voices????

We need international reporting on this. Now. First and foremost including today's reporting from Burmese publications, alleging the suspects confessions have been obtained under duress and some migrant's families threatened:

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

and

http://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

Because:

"“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Apparently.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Well looks like I got the beatings bit right. Was wrong on the reason he was getting his butt kicked.

In a UK court, a "witness statement" for the prosecution that was found to have been obtained under duress would be regarded as inadmissible in a court of law.

Even Guantanamo bay prisoners have failed to be prosecuted once established that any "confessions" they had given previously had in fact been obtained through torture.

Why wernt the team allowed to visit the 3rd person being held ?

He has not yet been fully brain washed into admitting it, and has far to many bruises in places that can be seen.

National security.

Because:

"“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Apparently.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy:

"The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness.

“Police told us Maung Maung is not a criminal. They are keeping him to be a witness and provide testimony to the prosecutor. So, they can’t let us meet him. They told us they are keeping him at a hotel,” said Aung Myo Thant. There were unconfirmed reports stating that Maung Maung, who is a friend of the two suspects, was also badly beaten by Thai police."

Oh, and...

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

Also hope it's ok to add this link to today's article http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Hope it's ok to paste this from the Irrawaddy website?

"The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

“He didn’t confess when he was in the investigation center,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer hit the side of his face and the interpreter also hit him four times. Then police threatened to electrocute them [the suspects] and said that no worse thing would happen to them if they confessed. So, they finally confessed as they saw no hope.”

The lawyer said Win Zaw Htun had asked him to “please protect us in accordance with the law.” Aung Myo Thant said the migrants signed a power of attorney document over to the embassy’s legal team, allowing it to represent the accused men in court.

Thai authorities denied a request by the Burmese legal team to meet with another Burmese migrant Maung Maung, who is being held by Thai police as a witness."

Oh, and:

"the mother of three Burmese migrant workers who alleged that Thai police poured hot water over them during questioning said she would not let her children speak to the media out of fear for their safety. She said that after the allegation surfaced in the media, Thai police came to warn her children that they would be in trouble if they spoke to the media again."

Also hope it's ok to add this link to today's article http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

What about the pathologist's definitive confirmation of the third as yet unidenitified suspect's DNA on Hannah's body, revealed on today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 ????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766048-police-address-criticisms-over-koh-tao-arrest-of-myanmar-suspects/page-11)

Well, Paxman he ain't. These officials wouldn't stand a chance against him!!

how can they possibly make a case when they know atleast one more person was involved ?

Someone needs to brush up on their Thai!! He says there was DNA from 2 people taken from Hannah person B and person C. DNA from person A and person B from the cigarette.

Ok! I shared this from another thread and trusted the translation given there, to my folly if what you say is accurate.

See link above.

Can we get full reliable translation from anyone here(more than one person ideally) to confirm or not whether there is a third persons DNA on Hannah, who is someone other than the currently detained suspects?

Where is John.

It seems our contemptible friend under the guise of JohnThailandJohn has slinked into the abyss. Unless, of course he's in deep composing mode with more inane literature to further his disdainful furor pent on destroying any reasonable doubt submitted albeit by the public at large or by concerned tv members. This man has a stroke of evil genius.

Thus, what can only be described ethically as having the quality of being morally wrong in principle practice or desire?

By reading and discussing literature, we expand our imagination, our sense of what is possible, and our ability to empathise with others. Especially, to define the capacity for rational thought or inference or discrimination taking us a step further into the cognitive mindset of its author. This person to me has deep rooted psychological problems and should really be pitied other than be addressed as a downright lunatic let loose on tv topics.

Nice to give back some waffle rather than we are exposed to his rants & raves throughout his hijacks on virtually every other post……

Ha, ha...do you miss him?

I unfortunately stumbled on the rotten fruits of what must have been a long spell of his "deep composing" half an hour ago at the end of the "phone planting" thread. It was almost sad to read him comparing TV questioners to people who believe Elvis is alive.He issued this with a flourish at the end of his rant.

I think in the analogue world he is probably very lonely.

Someone so hellbent on putting others down is usually deeply insecure and unhappy.

Anyway.Back to the matters at hand.......

Yes, like one does toothache with migraines.

How someone has so much wilful spite is somewhat incredible as if his life depended on it.

The mind boggles to be perfectly honest. He is definitely one of the Top Cynics on TV. He should be highly commended for his great attention to detail as a spontaneous critic of ill repute.

Some others would probably call him a To sser hahaha

Yep.Many might.

I feel kinda sorry for him. Power trippers are cowards.

But you know people like that serve a useful purpose in the world as a device that forces the liberal thinkers to clarify and specify their arguments and opinions.

Can I justify his existence and contribution?Just about.

Would I want to have a drink with the guy? No <deleted> way

commenting that the suspects may have been coerced by Thai authorities.

The men have signed confessions... END OF STORY.. Guilty as charged..... The RTP have their men.....

AS for the 3rd DNA found... Forget it.... The RTP have their men....

The RTP did an outstanding job. They have their men...

Does any of this mean anything.... IT doesn't really matter.... The RTP have their men....

END OF STORY

Erm.Nope.They do not have ALL their men because the third man whose DNA was on Hannah's body is missing.

I don't really like the idea of a third rapist/murderer getting away with it. Do you?

And btw, I said "But will they tell who it is if their families have been threatened by this third party and/or his associates? "

Never said Thai authorities coerced the suspects....

Where is John.

It seems our contemptible friend under the guise of JohnThailandJohn has slinked into the abyss. Unless, of course he's in deep composing mode with more inane literature to further his disdainful furor pent on destroying any reasonable doubt submitted albeit by the public at large or by concerned tv members. This man has a stroke of evil genius.

Thus, what can only be described ethically as having the quality of being morally wrong in principle practice or desire?

By reading and discussing literature, we expand our imagination, our sense of what is possible, and our ability to empathise with others. Especially, to define the capacity for rational thought or inference or discrimination taking us a step further into the cognitive mindset of its author. This person to me has deep rooted psychological problems and should really be pitied other than be addressed as a downright lunatic let loose on tv topics.

Nice to give back some waffle rather than we are exposed to his rants & raves throughout his hijacks on virtually every other post……

Ha, ha...do you miss him?

I unfortunately stumbled on the rotten fruits of what must have been a long spell of his "deep composing" half an hour ago at the end of the "phone planting" thread. It was almost sad to read him comparing TV questioners to people who believe Elvis is alive.He issued this with a flourish at the end of his rant.

I think in the analogue world he is probably very lonely.

Someone so hellbent on putting others down is usually deeply insecure and unhappy.

Anyway.Back to the matters at hand.......

What about the pathologist's definitive confirmation of the third as yet unidenitified suspect's DNA on Hannah's body, revealed on today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 ????????????

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766048-police-address-criticisms-over-koh-tao-arrest-of-myanmar-suspects/page-11)

Well, Paxman he ain't. These officials wouldn't stand a chance against him!!

how can they possibly make a case when they know atleast one more person was involved ?

There will be no problem to find the this last person. If the to burmanece did it. They know who he is

But will they tell who it is if their families have been threatened by this third party and/or his associates? I guess we will wait and see...

What about the pathologist's definitive confirmation of the third as yet unidenitified suspect's DNA on Hannah's body, revealed on today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 ????????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766048-police-address-criticisms-over-koh-tao-arrest-of-myanmar-suspects/page-11)

Well, Paxman he ain't. These officials wouldn't stand a chance against him!!

how can they possibly make a case when they know atleast one more person was involved ?

Exactly Stealth.

The two should not be made to take all the fall for the absent third. That is not justice.

Ah John,

So good to hear from you again.

Just one thing-it did not start with the phone issue.That was just one on a list of inconsistencies that many were already confused about and concerned by.

Oooh look, here's one big glaring one right now:-

Here is today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 where a police pathologist definitively confirms the presence of an as yet unidentified third suspect's DNA on Hannah's body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

"The pathologist said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

(info originally shared by Dogmatix on #265 on http://www.thaivisa....spects/page-11)

All guilty should be found and brought to justice. The two should not take all the fall for an absent third . Noone who values justice can disagree with that, not even you I imagine.

D

3 people have gone very very quiet.

Sean. The owner and the son. Laying lower than low. Waiting , waiting .the suspense must be unbearable.

Are we gonna worm our Way out of this?

one of the people you just mentioned has updated their facebook cover photo yesterday. it now says "hello, goodbye".......

Does not surprise me.

It's not that hard for someone to quietly disappear off the radar. People should do their best to keep these 3 right up front and center.

sean deleted his facebook profile a few days after leaving thailand after media reported his previous conviction.One of his sisters deleted her profile yesterday. The same sister who had defended him in a comment under an article about his previous conviction which i thought was conveniently produced to defame him and undermine his statements relating to the murders. Sean's girlfriend still has her facebook open as does sean's other sister.

Please Sean's family and loved ones, if you are reading this. Please encourage Sean to make a full statement to British Police or a written statement witnessed by a lawyer. Make a full statement and get it to Andy Hall who is representing the Burmese men. Sean is safe now but others are not. I think he's got a moral duty to do so for his friend....

Does this video contain statements from the official pathologist confirming a third as yet unidentified (at least publically anyway) suspect?

Posted by dogmatix on #272 in http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766048-police-address-criticisms-over-koh-tao-arrest-of-myanmar-suspects/page-11#entry8494264

This puts into question who did what and must be pivotal for the two suspects currently detained.

video here:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY

Dogmatix says (the pathologist) "said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples."

Here is today's interview of a policeman and a police pathologist by Sorayud on Channel 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_1WfVs7RY . There are a couple of interesting points.

1. The pathologist assured the public that David's wounds were definitely made by the hoe, as per the confessions, and not by any form of knife. He didn't explain why the hoe wounds were so different to hoe wounds found on Hannah or why David's DNA was not found on the hoe.

2. The pathologist confirmed that DNA of two men A and B (i.e the suspects) was found in semen found inside Hannah, as we have already been told.

3. He also said that DNA of B and a third person C was found on Hannah's nipples. The third person was not David. The policeman didn't explain who the police thought C was or how he came to deposit his DNA on Hannah's nipples.

4. The pathologist said they found Hannah's DNA on the outside of the used condom found at the scene but they didn't find David's DNA inside. The policeman tried to explain why David's DNA might not have been detectable inside the condom but seemed to be struggling and the pathologist didn't help him out. Neither mentioned whether anyone else's DNA was found inside the condom and it is not clear to me whether any semen was found inside it. Nevertheless, even a man who has sex wearing a condom without ejaculating would leave some traces of bodily fluid and skin cells inside the condom. Whether this would be enough to trace DNA I can't say but in cases in other countries DNA seems traceable even in tiny skin cells.

So to sum up the police interview confirms that their is no forensic evidence that David and Hannah had sex before they were murdered. If this were the case, there should be DNA traces of pubic hair and skin cells from Hannah's body apart from the condom, admittedly mixed with those of A and B and whoever else was there.

Apart from suspects A and B, another man C's DNA was found on Hannah's nipples but not in her vagina.

Some one who cannot be positively identified as David (or C) used the condom to have sex with Hannah, although it sounded like the police didn't want to rule out David (or C), even though though can't proove it.

The interview seems to raise the questions of 1) who was C that left his DNA on Hannah's nipple? and 2) was there a fourth man D who raped Hannah wearing a condom and 3) or did C use the condom too but without leaving any DNA in it that they have thus far been able to find.

Perhaps I misunderstood some of the interview but that was my take.

Evidence of the DNA of a THIRD person on Hannah!?! found by an official pathologist.

This a is a breakthrough!!! Who is he?

Why are the police not stating they are seeking a third man for involvement?

Why have I been reading some reports saying the case is closed when this evidence remains?

Is it at all possible that the police are well aware of the presence of a third man already?

Please can anyone reliably translate into english if you aren't 100% sure dogmatix(no disrespect to you-excellent information-thank you!)

This information must be shared.

Sean McAnna, living it up in Choppers Bar during a pub crawl, just a few HOURS after the horrific murder of his 'good friend'.

Clearly devastated.

SEAN.jpg

if he was witness, complicit or felt himself to be complicit in that through being David's friend, David had ended up with the crowd that led to his death then getting out of your mind blind drunk and god knows what else would be one of many understandable reactions.

Being as this seemed to be his habit anyway, he would have been in shock and also aware that he "had to" carry on as if he didn't know anything...until the pressure became too much a week later (or he had discovered more facts during this time if he hadn't been privy to facts from the get-go)

3 people have gone very very quiet.

Sean. The owner and the son. Laying lower than low. Waiting , waiting .the suspense must be unbearable.

Are we gonna worm our Way out of this?

one of the people you just mentioned has updated their facebook cover photo yesterday. it now says "hello, goodbye".......

Csi latest post, the video from Nation news is now saying the village chiefs son was seen leaving the island around 30 minutes after the murders are supposed to have taken place. I think the problem is everyone knows who done it but they are all petrified in coming forward.

I noticed the unidentified figure in the far left of frame in the video of the suspect in the middle of the night, presumably after the murders, seems to be wearing some sort of back pack.The sort of thing one carries when you're on your way somewhere, no?

Could it be that is the same someone who is hastily heading towards a private speedboat to nip over to koh samui for the first flight of the day?

Could it be the burmese suspect was enrolled to assist with this getaway?

CSI are also putting out a request for passenger lists from the airline for that morning.