paulikens

35 minutes ago, wmlc said:

If the passenger can’t pay for their own flight the airline that flew the passenger to Thailand is on the hook to pay for your flight back to where they got you. 

Well i was told i had to pay for it. cuz i questioned that but they weren't budging.

Just now, mancub said:

Have you asked the Immigration folk themselves ? ????

Well as the common theme on this post is everything is to each IO discretion, I'd probably get a different answer from each one of them.  And from what i can gather legally i could try again tomorrow (i'm not going to)   And i guarantee they wouldn't tell me that.  Also it would be a loss of face if another immigration let me in. not that the actual IO that refused  me would ever know.  unless he's going to monitor my every move from now on in???? 

Just now, bigt3116 said:

You fail to understand that the embassy is run by the MFA not immigration. Two totally seperate entities with their own set of rules

Well it seems it's not a very logical way to do it and by the sounds of it all countries are the same.  because thats like buying a ticket for a entertainment event ie football, concert, etc  online and then at the venue they deny you entrance.    

Just now, Scouse123 said:

The OP originally stated he'd been refused at Phuket after being granted a tourist visa in Penang.

 

I am not implying anything sinister or that he is a bad person or anything but he has attempted to drip feed the board by what actually happened.

 

By this I mean after board members queried him, up pops the three day overstay when first stating he had absolutely nothing wrong in the passport.

 

Then he mentioned further down the line in another post the IO was suggesting he didn't have funds to support himself, then there was the suggestion that he was living here, which he probably is to all intents and purposes.

 

Furthermore, there is the situation of members asking him to post the actual refusal in the passport on here, so that it can be looked at, he has chosen to swerve this request made by multiple posters which suggests he obviously doesn't want you to see the visa and reasons for refusal.

 

So it's obvious asking advice on here and not telling the whole story that posters will become suspicious.

 

Moving next what he himself says, about why was he granted a visa in the first place, as though it is now the fault of the Thai Embassy in Penang?

 

Well a visa can be double checked at immigration points, the same applies to those granted visas to the UK or Europe if an IO is suspicious. In the UK, and I have known it happen, where a person has been turned around and sent back basically accused of obtaining a visa by deception/under false pretenses OR obtaining a visa not used for its intended purpose.

 

I wouldn't start waving the rules, regulations and Thai law around to an IO.

 

AFAIK, An IO can refuse you at the border regardless of the fact you have a visa. I wouldn't personally attempt to be a smart-ass by trying a different immigration point in a day or so. I would stay away and have a month in Cambodia.

 

Two refusals would not look good in a passport. But as they say, up to you!

I'll tell you why i was drip feeding the info. because i wasn't sure id even get any response to my first post.  I didn't want to write out a long post and no-one even respond and also even if i had put most of the details i guarantee someone would want some other detail that i had forgotten.  On the passport point I still haven't got that back yet as i'm still in the detention room i fly out this evening.   And the final point which I keep having to repeat but has got lost in so many comments.  The only thing i EVER wanted to know was how long would or should it be before i attempt to come back to thailand?     Yes i believe it is unfair that the embassy grant you the visa but the immigration still can refuse you BUT my original post was only enquiring about how long before i should attempt to come back to Thailand.   everything else is irrelevant.    

Just now, wmlc said:

The answer is yes they do have full discretion. I’d love to go and find the section of law for you but it’s a holiday and I’m done helping the op, which is what this thread was started for. The OP didn’t start the thread to witness people arguing about sent emails and laws. The op wants to know: 

 

 

1. Why was he refused entry in simple tens ?

2. What can he do to avoid it? 
 

3. what other visa options are available that are more sustainable?

 

4. Who can help him if he can’t do it himself ?

 

And that’s what I gave him the answers to in one easy post to understand. The rest should all be in a different thread. 

 

Actually i didnt want the answers to any of them.  all i wanted to know was when it was safe to go back to thailand after getting denied entry

Just now, wmlc said:

Sorry but you are wrong. They are not tourists. They are digital nomads. They are still doing some kind of work, remotely. A tourist is a tourist. Plain and simple. They don’t work at all. Period. 

But if digital nomads are coming in on a tourist visa then you're contradicting yourself. if they work they're not tourists.  make ya mind up.  

Just now, bigt3116 said:

Except that consulates (run by the MFA not Immigration) require funds to be in a bank account, and immigration requires funds to be in cash. The most cited reason for denial of entry is 12.2 Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom. There is a good chance the OP did not have the required 20k in cash on him, and was legitimately denied entry.

They didn't even ask if i had any cash on me.   

Just now, travelerjim said:

Your mistake was not using an experienced border/Visa run service company to take you to Penang and return by land.

 

Lucky to have been granted the New SETV single entry tourist visa in Penang.

 

Don't Fly into Thailand... period.

Only enter Thailand by land border crossing.

As i said before I thought i was alright to fly in as I had the SETV 

Just now, Caldera said:

Like what?

exactly.

Just now, Pattaya57 said:

But you've lived in Thailand for years and now caught pretending to be a tourist.  How is that an IO on a power trip flexing his muscles?

 

I'm imagining you, on a tourist visa, responding to IO "but I live here" therefore sealing their case

 

yeah right! I'm gonna be that brain-dead <deleted>

Just now, BritTim said:

The legal framework controlling entry and departure from Thailand is described in Sections 11 through 22 of the Immigration Act (primarily Section 12 and Section 22). You can read a good translation of the entire relevant part of the Act at https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-entering-and-departing-the-kingdom-sections-11-22/.

 

This is Section 12:

This is Section 22:

The Thai laws differ markedly from those of almost all other countries. Most important, the discretion of officials controlling entry into the country is severely constrained. They are told the conditions under which entry should be denied, and can only deny entry based on them. It is made clear that only the Minister has the power to depart from the written regulations.

 

It should be noted that Police Orders issued by the Minister since the Act was promulgated qualify the provisions surrounding visa exemptions. For those with valid visas, the law has not been amended.

And how do you appeal to the minster? because immigration wouldn't tell me and there's literally nothing on google. who is the minster is it one person or a governing body?     it's totally vague on the form they give you.  

Just now, Dan O said:

Immigration has the discretion to refuse entry to anyone deemed inappropriate with or without a visa. Its written in the regs even though some believe they have to show a "valid" reason. Im not saying I agree with that position. There's usually more to most of these stories than are told by the posters.  Im sure there is in this case also. 

I can assure you there isn't.  I'll tell you  what the story is its IO on a pathetic little power trip flexing his muscles.  

Just now, Pattaya57 said:

Personally I feel I've lived in Thailand in my condo for 6 years on visa exempt + extensions since I retired, so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.

 

I do spend 2 months at a time outside Thailand between visa exempts though, but definitely should get the retirement visa

so if IO called me out I'd say fair play.....  You say that now but maybe would be different if it actually happened to you.

Just now, bobcat888 said:

Hey @paulikens - could you please answer my previous question about how much time in total you've spent in Thailand over the last 3 years?

Please define 'A hell of a lot of time'

two and a half years. but i was on a nonB for a year and a half of that.   Also before you say that's why you got denied.  my question was never why,  but just how long before i should try to get back in?

Just now, circa02 said:

I doubt it, what would flag up in another country? Did they mark your passport with denied entry?  Years ago when I was turned around at the border, the Malaysia officer on the other side of no mans land just laughed, said i was third one today they must be having a bad day over there and promptly undone my exit stamp. I'd leave it a day or two and try again via land border, I dont think you need to wait weeks or months if you didn't formally get denied entry stamp.

Well I presume I will be getting a denial stamp as that's what's happened.  I don't know yet as I haven't had my passport back( I'm actually still in the detention room, I'm supposed to fly back tomorrow to penang) but i already had a form saying thats what it is, a denial of entry. 

Another thing i was wondering... would i then be denied entry in neighbouring countries ie vietnam, Cambodia.   because it would flag up as soon as i entered.

Just now, lovesthespicy said:

Flying in is always a dice roll if you spent any recent time in Thailand. Travel to Laos or Cambo(one of the good borders) and you'll likely have no problems coming in. 

As i said before because i had been granted the visa already i didn't think there would be any problems

Just now, BritTim said:

Up to you. In any case, choose a safe entry point the next time.

TBH I didn't really think of a safe entry point at the time cuz i had already got the tourist visa. But thanks for the advise and info. much appreciated.

Just now, hydraides said:

To be honest its harsh because Penang should have refused the visa in the first place

 

No reason to refuse entry, Surely there has to be more to this story?

 

Have you got previous long overstays in your passport?

 

Have you lived in Thailand before these 5 months for a long extended period?

 

 

 

 

@hydraides   i only have one overstay of 3 days but I do stay in Thailand a hell of a lot.  It's not the denial of entry that I'm really enquiring about as i know at the end of the day Thai immigration pretty much are a law onto themselves but was just more wondering how long should i give it before i try getting in again?   would 1 month be enough? 2, 3?  or longer?

Just now, BritTim said:

He could. If so, avoid the road crossing at Pedang Besar. Expect an uncomfortable ride from the officials entering at Sadao, but likely to be ultimately successful. In his situation, I would be extremely risk averse at this stage. A second denied entry stamp looks really bad.

Yes, That's what I'm worried about.  Maybe it would be better to fly somewhere stay there for a bit and then try again?

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Have you considered offering to "pay a fine" and receive a "warning" 

If you mean a fine "under the table type"  I don't think that's possible at airports