Lorn

Agree the writing is crap and it's a mystery why the journalist has a job writing for an English language paper. That said, the point remains that Americans are paranoid (justly so) and racism in all its forms is alive and kicking. To its credit, America is the most willing of countries to own up to its failings and mistakes. That requires personal confidence and courage ... something badly lacking many countries.

How do you come up with this "America is the most willing to..." stuff. Has "America" admitted to WMD's being a load of rubbish or overthrowing countless democratic governments? Not sure who/what exactly you mean by "America" there. It might be conceivable to agree with you if you said "America is first in allowing people to criticise it for its failings and mistakes" but even that would be a big stretch.

You can't communicate effectively unless you know how to change the verb to match context - eat, eats, ate, has eaten, is eating, was eating, will eat, is going to eat, will have eaten, had eaten etc. Grammar is essential otherwise people speak like bar girls - you eat mango today, you eat mango tomorrow, you eat mango now and that's just about it.

But you could transport a bar girl to a foreign (English speaking) country and she would survive on her own.

95% of Uni grads would starve

Quite true.

Laugh, as many will, at "bar-girl" English, the fact is that a many of the ladies who have made their way in the "R & R" business are far more competent at "communicating" in English , and sometimes other languages, than most of the people with university degrees employed at department stores, banks and other retail areas.

"Bar-girl" English is an effective way of communicating, hard on the ear for grammar purists indeed, but nevertheless effective and rewarding (for them).

I speak enough basic Thai to try to make myself understood, yet, unfortunately for me, have never had an hour's Thai language teaching. I learned by listening to Thais speak, both family, friends and TV and movies. Yet when I enter a bank or e.g. , an AIS office, I am lucky to find one basic English speaker.

I don't have a problem with the argument "Well, TIT, so speak Thai, but these people have all spent hours listening to a Thai teacher droning on about English grammar and sentence structure, without even having a basic conversation.

Some fortunate souls have had an overseas education and it shows.

Going to generalise a bit but your average Bar- girls have a few stock questions they ask and make no effort to actually understand your response. University students are less confident in their abilities but if pressed can have much more intelligent conversations, The only advantage bargirls may have, is dealing with new/strange accents, because they are going to come across a greater variety.

I really don't think those who keep spouting this nonsense about bargirls having better English skills, have actually talked to (m)any university students. Or perhaps due to them being obvious sex-pests, the classier ladies have no inclination to "communicate" with them" and fake an inability to understand what they are saying.

P.S Are people who work in retail and department stores, all university graduates?

I care about the 2 True Victims in this case which is Hannah and David. Therefore I do not want to see 2 Accused Rapists and Murderers walk free until it is proven beyond a "Reasonable Doubt" they are in fact Innocent. Do you see where they have done that as I don't.

Someone who may have forgotten to put the correct date on a DNA Document does not convince me the 2 Accused are innocent. Nor is the UK Justice System who fail to provide written declaration that this Mobile Phone belongs to David, as by law they are not allowed to, even if they give a verbal confirmation. Even that this case wasn't handled perfectly with apparent blunders. But none so far that proves the DNA Match with Hannah is false, and why after a year the Defense is still trying to prove that today.

You on the other hand think the victims here are the 2 Accused. You base your judgement on a case that wasn't handled perfectly, which has only been reported about by the Defense Team since last November as the Prosecution has said very little. On 2 Baby Faced Accused Rapists and Murderers who simply said they didn't do it and were tortured into a confession, with no proof so far any of that is true, and when anyone accused with a crime like this would lie through their teeth to save their own skins.

The Defense has a chance this week to prove their case, so let's let them do their job.

This typify's the bias being shown by some posters in favour of a conviction. It is for the prosecution to provide evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendants are guilty not for them to prove their innocence. So far they have clearly not done so or indeed provided any evidence other than to say "We know they did it" They have unfortunately lost or destroyed what evidence there was and given laughable reasons for doing so. In any western court the case would never have even reached the trial stage but I guess we will be subjected to the charade a while longer. It seems that for some here the mere accusation by the police is proof of guilt which demonstrates a ridiculously high level of trust in the RTP

It's not that there were a few blunders, it's that everything that could conceivably be done wrong, has been. The confession was obtained, without any video recording, using a dodgy translator, and has now been shown to bear 0 similarity to what actually transpired in the murder.

We have murder weapons not tested, important footage not watched or not asked for or available, clothing not tested or available. None of the police dealing with DNA recording their part correctly, it not even being sent to the right place to be tested independently, none of the police able to testify coherently. Is it really possible for every officer to be this incompetent, considering the best in the country were supposedly brought in to solve this case. And let's not forget that the prosecutor sent the file back to the police multiple times to sort out the problems in it. Yet despite them being made aware of the problems with the case and being told to fix them multiple times, this is the best they could come up with?

A conspiracy to frame these boys may sound "out there" to some, but is it really more reasonable to believe that the entire police force has 0 idea how to do even the basics of an investigation correctly and continues to do everything incorrectly throughout, despite their mistakes being pointed out to them time and time again?

P.S Of course let's not forget that for a while there seemed to be a very competent investigation going on, with strong leads such as suspects caught on film and a certain father saying his son had been on the island but had returned to university. Usually when i return to visit the place my parents live, they know about it. I don't think they've ever thought I went home for a visit when I actually didn't. Oh well I guess we will never know how much better the investigation would have gone if not for the unfortunate coincidence that that policeman, who seemed to be leading a very good investigation, was promoted to work elsewhere. I hope his promotion has led to him solving many equally high- profile cases, and that the mess those he left behind have made, doesn't show that it would have been far more prudent to delay his promotion.

Give it another year or so until all opposition has been eliminated and then the REAL reconciliation can start, mai pen rai.

Actually no. Reconciliation can never start while Thaksin is in the picture.

Couldn't the same can be said that reconciliation can never start while Suthep is in the picture. if you factor in the Suthep and Prayuth collaboration, reconciliation is not the top agenda. Remember the war chant of Suthep and the continuing blame game by Prayuth? It's a pattern all too obvious and it's not about reconciliation.

Reconciliation you say.

Well I've asked at least 20 times for the red leaners to give:

- A detailed definition / picture of what reconciliation would look like, when achieved.

- A detailed description of the actions and processes which would produce 'reconciliation'.

There has never been one reply.

IMHO reconciliation means everybody respects the letter of the law, acts with ethics and responsibility to ensure their actions and words are within the law and within normal values, ethics and morals in terms of respect for all citizens regardless of their personal social status, their education level, etc.

And when needed the application of the law is transparent and fair for all citizens.

What's your definition Mr. Loh?

A good start towards reconciliation would be treating both sides fairly don't you think? So maybe not only allow gatherings by Suthep's mob. Then there could be some yellow shirts targeted for corruption. Only looking to punish one side for past and current misdeeds is going to widen the divisions. Scrapping plans to have an unelected military/elitist dominated senate with all the power while giving the other side none might too.

The ex FM put his all into his proposal just as he was instructed to by Thaksin. He is a example of another mouth piece reading from his bosses script.

A waste of newsptint just as is the space he occpies on this earth. He fits into the Thaksin mafia quite nicely.

You against reconciliation?

Not at all but I am against Thaksin and anyone supporting him having any real input as they are the ones who caused the majority of the problems that are being addressed by the present government.

When the entire Thaksins faction mafia repay with intrest what they stole from the thai public, serve their prison time and all ill gotten assets are sold at public action, they should be given the oppurnity to express their ideas on reconcilation.

You really should go further and ask for Thaksin's head on the platter. That will solve Thailand problems last 50 years and next 50 years.

And all the democrats. police and military not aligned with Thaksin can keep all their ill-gotten gains, eh Slapout? Or do you believe they have become massively wealthy through ingenuity and hard work? Remember according to all international studies, corruption decreased during the periods when the shins were in power but increased when the democrats/military governments were.

All I can say is be careful. There are a lot of older "gentlemen" on this very forum who like to preach to mostly younger crowd how Thailand is not cheap and how you need a lot of money to live here. The truth is Thailand is extremely cheap and anyone telling you otherwise is probably being ripped off by their wife and family.

I am a 34 year old guy and have yet to find anywhere in the world with a better cost of living/quality of life ratio than Thailand and I've been to over 50 countries.

How long have you spent in these countries? Don't see how you can judge without spending at least 6 months there so the I've been to 50 countries is meaningless. Plus as others have said things change when you have children. Education value for money here is appalling.

Actually I have no idea at all what you are considering good value for money here and good quality of life. It would also vary considerably based on where in the country you live, just as it would depending on what city/town/village you lived in the 50 countries you have been to.

Many things in Thailand are cheap compared to first world cities but Thailand is a middle income country so that is to be expected. Compare prices here to countries with similar incomes and things are not so cheap.

He's been in charge 18 months. It's time to own your own problems.

Stop looking back, start looking forwards.

And stop whining all the time like a spoiled kid.

the problem is that the peole he is referring to are still very much players and lets face it - they shouldn't be

very easy to point the finger at the PM and say he is not running a democracy (true) but the reality is it is the only way effective changes will ever be accomplished, past democratic elected governments have shown how ineffective they are over decades of theiving - power abuse - and corruption and have failed to do anything about it - why should they, they are all enriching themselves, although the current solution is not ideal I honestly don't see any alternative, politicians in this country cannot be trusted (fact) so the only way to ensure they do what they were elected to do is to introduce stiff boundaries, rules, agencies, and laws that hold people in office to account and for the time being restrict them until such times they can be trusted

And what are his accomplishments with absolute power and almost a year and a half in charge?

Let's see...

- reducing the price of the lottery ticket to 80 baht

- stripping a fugitive criminal ex-policeman of his rank

- err ... anyone?

It's not just about how little he has done in the last 18 months. His faction have been in charge of the military for many years and what progress has there been to stop corruption there? We've all seen the amazing wealth these guys have accumulated. And we still hear of military checkpoints collecting the same tea money that the police do.

Disgusting, decades of abuse! Should be red carded.

Do you think any blame should be apportioned to the many governments before this one.

At the very least they are trying to do something after decades of previous governments doing nothing.

I would think it's not really about the government- the poster is suggesting the fishing companies and fishermen deserve the red carding and loss of income. Sad that any government has to force these people to do the right thing.

But there in is one of the problems " educated native speakers"

1 most "teachers" are not properly educated

2. They are not real teachers

3. The only reason they are teaching is they want to stay in Thailand can't get a job and use "teaching" to support their holiday life style

Rather than employing some backpacker who can't tie his shoe laces without asking mummy to "teach" they would be better getting some real teachers in Thailand who can mentor and develop the current Thai English teachers

Do you realize how little a degree in education gives one? When I was in school the department of Education toned down all the subjects so teachers could pass. Like, biology for elementary education majors as opposed to biology for everyone else.

It does not take a brain trust to teach Thai children 100 words of English and that would be a 100% improvement over what they learn now. Thai English teachers can't say 100 words in English let alone their students!

This is why most good schools take someone with an undergraduate degree majoring in Biology, Accountancy, Maths etc. +PGCE over someone with a B.Ed. Well high schools anyway, those teaching kindergarten or junior school should be ok with their watered down version of the teaching subjects and more focus on pedagogy, classroom management etc.

Dude - seriously you have to be careful with taking advice from this forum. Alot of these guys hang out in expat scenes, which in any country attract a certain type of person that may prey on foreigners. Many of the expats are huge hypocrites. They devalue women that sleep with them on the first date but they themselves dont hesitate to shag anything that moves. They devalue women that date or cheat but they themselves do so with incredible regularity.

Many of the views expressed in the comments section do not align with my own experiences in Thailand and Asia in general and Ive been living here for upwards of 20 years. Your in a long distance relationship. They are frustrating at the best of times and for any nationality. There are many myths propagated in this forum. Middle class thai girls are not so different to western women. Yes if you are hansom and they are not a virgin many will sleep with you on the first or second date. No they dont generally view sex as a commodity but like any society there is a portion that do. Youth and beauty are seen as assets for a woman as in any society and Asian woman can be conscious of the limited life cycle of both.

Honestly if you dont show solid commitment to an asian woman - or any woman - especially one in her 30s, then you cant expect a solid commitment back. She will be very aware that the clock is ticking. A solid commitment in Asia means a ceremony to recognise your relationship to family and Buddha and it means financial and lifestyle links. Yes you may be unfortunate to have landed a bad egg. She may be scamming you and 10 other guys. It happens. There are some wily women - this occurs in any country and is not unique to Thailand. Try your luck with any country in the low income status.

The best way to limit your risk is to get your head out of the love mode and look at her objectively. Is she placing demands for money, is her family sober, hard working and generally honest, does she give you good advice with money, lifestyle etc.. Does she care about you and your health? These are positive attributes that will help in a long term relationship. The other thing you have to do if you are serious is make a commitment and remove the distance in the relationship. Else in her mind you are likely just dating - which is a difference here.

Excellent post.

I was also trying to think of the best case scenario. There is a saying "don't put all your eggs in one basket." Her counting on you being a solid bet after only a week together would be crazy.

However we do have the her hanging out at Levels, Insanity, etc. Best he can hope for from that is that she is a former part-time freelancer when she was a salesperson but that gave it up after getting a promotion/better salary/older so less in demand. Can't see anyone who was never involved in that line of work being friends with loads that are. Oh and the OP said that was totally unacceptable to him. The rest then becomes a moot point.

This has got to be an aim for free publicity. Why wouldn't you go with what comes up in searches of celta + Bangkok. Have you heard anything negative about them that I am unaware of?

A B.Ed is a long degree. Might be able do a Post Graduate Certificate faster depending what subjects you majored in. For example if you did Accountancy or Economics to 2nd/3rd year level those would be considered teaching subjects.

Simon Jeremy Merington Briscore was arrested at his house after the two boys, who are 16 years old, filed complaints with police that the Briton failed to honour his promise to pay them Bt500 each for sex.

If the guy did what he's accused of, then he broke the Thai law and what may follow.

But based on the news reports, it wasn't just the Brit who was buying. It was also the teen-age boys who were selling.

AFAIK in Thailand, it's equally illegal for minors to engage in prostitution by providing sex for money.

A comparable analogy would be, you go buy illegal drugs from someone on the street, take them home, and discover they're fakes. Then you go to the police to file a complaint that the drug dealer ripped you off and want your money back. How far are you going to get with that???

It's not a good analogy. A better analogy would be if you bought 2g but when you went home and weighed it, you found it was 1.5g. You then went to the police and he was arrested for selling drugs (not for selling you less than he promised). There is no mention of him being arrested for fraud, the fact that he didn't pay the promised (illegal) amount has no bearing. He's been arrested for the sex act.

If this guy and the other people are guilty, it shows that this bombing was the work

of many, and there may be more bombings to come in the future. Terrorists do not care where

they operate or who they kill. It would be a nice world if no one supported terrorist

groups, but that is not the way the world is.

I feel fortunate so far not to be in the place where some nut jobs decide to blow up other

people. I hope my luck keep up and I can enjoy my retirement for several more years.

It would be an even better world if no-one felt the need to become a terrorist because they were so powerless

and suffering from such persecution..

So he confessed to holding illegal bomb material, but not for making the bomb that was set off if I read correctly. I also wonder what language they are using to communicate in as I don't see a reference to this, only to a reference that their is an interpreter.

Indeed. Why is he being told to re-enact a crime he hasn't even been charged with. And why the need for a military trial? Is it because they have had such a terrible time with the civilian trial in Koh Tao?

Boomer has been offering lists of what the investigation should have done but apparently hasn't done for almost a year now.

As shown in my previous post, they checked phone records, this is a fact.

Yes it's a fact they checked some people's phone records. But did they check the people's phone records that some of us think they should have.

I was at Klong Thom today and everything is off the public streets ,

even the area across the street that was full of street sellers at the first crackdown in March is now gone ,

There was supposed to be another place somewhere that they were going to be sent ( re-education camp ? ) but I never found out where it was .

Really makes it boring........ but its the "NEW" Thailand

Google Rot Fai Market Ratchada

That is where the action is.

Went there last week. Awful place full of chinese rip offs. No soul whatsoever.

Can you give more details?

Yes, to some extent, but i don't have the full picture, maybe tomorrow but my understanding is DNA evidence does link the two accused to the crime, this was a driver behind the defence not wanting a retest, profiles do match.

Not very surprising though, that was the missing evidence from the prosecution case so far.

As for the defense not wanting to retest it, to me it is rather telling. If as they claimed they have evidence that contradicts the results I don't see why they would refuse to have the retest done, either it would come back as a no match and that would put the prosecution case in disarray or it could come back as a match and then the defense could show their evidence proving it as being wrong, either from an error in the investigation or due to actual malice, either way it would again be extremely damaging to the prosecution.

Their refusal to have a retest tells me that whatever they card they may have to play is not enough to counter the DNA evidence of the prosecution, hence the refusal.

You keep repeating this but it is totally illogical. Let me try to make it simple. The BiB have 2 DNA samples ( x and y) from different parts of the crime scene. They say they are a match and are one of the defendants (z). For the prosecution x, y and z all need to be the same and need to be what they say they are. The defense only needs to show one of these is incorrect. They don't need to test all 3.

So, Lorn, what are the facts? Was compensation paid to the tourists on the bus?

Rich people paying off the poor to cover up their crimes is nothing new anywhere in the world. The scale of payment needed here is more manageable is all.

Like most cases of justice or injustice in Thailand this is crass and disgusting

Its true lots of foreigners die here every year; this year 364 Brits alone have died. Nobody cares.

It was nine Thai university students which is why it has no relevance to you speaking about foreigners getting no justice. And there is a civil case pending for damages after the criminal case finished in May.

In the second case yes the man that killed the cyclist (who was stationary on the side of the road) offered compensation.

How old were these Brits who died this year? Brits die in Britain too. Does no one care about them? Why do you keep mentioning foreigners? Yes the lack of justice is terrible but you make it sound like it's somehow more unacceptable when it happens to non-Thais.

If it is true about this government stifling the investigation for the interests of tourism then that is absolutely appualing. I bet some of the sycophants will still be in here defending them though. I see that their biggest fan already has. I bet you think it was the 'reds' eh to don't you john? You'd of thought this government would pour all their reasources into proving that was the case. Just like they wantes to prove the din dao students were reds and supposedly had evidence of this....that they didn't actually have so had to release them.

Of course they terrifying prospect of them deliberately not wanting to admit their own failures is that this kind Of attack happens again. That will be on Prayuth's hands with no way to spin it.

John already stated in no uncertain terms in another thread that the Reds did it. He even mentioned the 100 bombs the allegedly red, alleged bombers allegedly confessed were being planned to set off in the aftermath of the siam paragon bombing in March. Haven't heard any more about links to high-ranking reds although we were promised proof of ties. Whether John really believes any of what he says or is just trolling may be up in the air.

there may be a lot of evidence coming from the UK, I suspect that some of Davids and Hannahs friends will have since been interviewed and made statements about certain things that went on that night/morning throwing some light on what happened in AC bar and whether David and Hannah were connected in some way or not.

Lets not forget the last place both were seen alive was AC bar, any professional investigation would have and should have started there and yet we hear no mention of it by police or prosecution when presenting their case, that is a massive black hole right there,

Friends may have already told Thai police during interviews and made statements that have generally been ignored because they didn't fit with the agenda

How many foreigners were in AC Bar that night ? And close to the beach ? Why have we not heard from them , ok maybe they are busy with their own lifes and couldnt care less, like Sean McAnna , but with so many possible witnesses I find it strange that they do not speak out.

I mean if they are safe in their home countries they got nothing to lose. They could give us some more information , what they saw that night. Unless all of them were working illegally on the island or using drugs, and do not want any unwanted attention from the media.

If you were a witness what would you do, go to the tabloids or call a press conference? Hopefully you wouldn't but would instead have contacted either the police or the defense depending on who you trusted or whose side your evidence benefited. It wouldn't/shouldn't become public knowledge. If someone came forward with pertinent testimony, it will be revealed when it is the defenses turn to plead their case.

"Basically, the report probably rips to shreds the investigative techniques used in the case. However, it doesn't come to a different conclusion about the likely guilt of the two who are on trial."

Well if that's all true, then surely it does have an effect on the 'reasonable doubt' aspect of how the judges make a decision, and remembering that a guilty verdict could well bring some very severe long-term punishment.

If the Brits had the same evidence in front of them as the judges do, why would the judge need to be told that the brits doubt the evidence? Surely the judges can make up their own mind? I know people want to be incensed by the injustice of the whole charade but some of the moaning is over the top.

While I'm also disgusted by the smiles of the driver,, I'm also more disgusted at the fact it seems that,, ONLY, Thai lives matter,,,, Think back at recent TV news regarding this type of situation,,, 17 yr old, THAI girl, NO driver's license, texting,,, etc... causing an accident killing 9,, NINE tourist's,,, as far as Ive seen reported,,, NO $$$ compinsasion from her family to ANY of the NINE deceased TOURIST'S,,, NONE..(at least none was EVER reported).. No... 2 yrs probation, 6 months community service, No driving till 21 yrs old,, (all of which they seemed to feel was too "harsh", as they appealed it all), Thai bus driver, OVERTAKING a foreigner on a bicycle, on a DOWNHILL CURVE,,, ran him the HELL over,,, NOTHING in compinasion... NOTHING!!!!,,,, American CEO of Catipillar,, hacked to death with a Samuri sword by a, THAI taxi driver, over an argument of $14 baht,, If I remember correctly ,, $300 baht fine, and back in his cab the following week,,, (SHOCKING he didn't ask for $$ from the guys family to compinsate his losses of a week of no work)... And goes on and on, and on, if you're bored, and wanna do the searches on TVF,... I've NEVER seen a case, where a Thai person, was directly the cause of a Foreigner's death. where they were asked/forced, to offer, ANY type of $$$ compinsation to their victims families,,, NONE that I can recall anyway,,,, There are some I'm sure,,, but I'd bet they were ALSO to the, $$$ benefit of the RTP officer in charge of., "investigating" the incident... In the USA right now,, there's the big, "Black lives matter" thing going on,,,,, It'd be VERY easy to do the same here as in,,, "ONLY Thai lives matter!" and would be about 97% accurate,,, if not more,,,,

What exactly do you mean by "as far as I've seen reported"? Do you ever open a newspaper? I'm not going to indulge your laziness other than to say that your facts in the first two incidents, as well as what has happened in the aftermath are way off. Do some research before spouting nonsense.

Thai solicitor says Burmese man admitted murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

A Thai solicitor has said that he was present when a Burmese man admitted raping and killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey back packer David Miller.

Pittaya Yaipetch, explained in court, during the ongoing trial in Koh Samui, that one of the 22 year-old suspects from Myanmar had freely admitted following Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller in the early hours of September 15 2014, and raping and killing them.

“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.

“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but his victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight him off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.

“The suspect said his friend, Wei Phyo, was punching Ms Witheridge until she fell unconscious and then he proceeded to rape her. Zaw Lin told the police that he hit Ms Witheridge in the face with the garden hoe when she began to regain consciousness, before raping her himself.

The solicitor said Zaw Lin admitted hitting her a second time with the hoe “so she could not survive and identify us.”

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/thai_solicitor_says_burmese_man_admitted_murdering_hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_1_4199587?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

But no blood on hoe from David Miller?

From the above article

'The family of Ms Witheridge and Mr Miller were not in court to hear the detailed description of their deaths'.

Shameful reporting from the local paper, which should say 'were not in court to hear the detailed description of the alleged confession which was later retracted'.

Nor any of David's blood on her despite him being struck while on top of her. Also no explanation for the stabbing type wounds. Even the roti-seller knew/knows the story makes no sense so added the bits about a wine bottle being used. Oh and there's no way Ms Witheridge was only hit twice.

Well the red shirts did say they would plant 100 bombs in Bangkok.

98 to go.

Lets hope peace and stability is restored again and swift arrests are made of those that want to see this govt fail before more innocent life's are lost.

It was only a matter of time before the fanatics came back out.

Classic!

I rather assumed that Djjamie was referring to the fact that he hasn't posted much for the last few days!

I'm beginning to think he must be trolling.