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Lorn
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Posts posted by Lorn
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And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!
Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?
And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,
Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?
Let's bring a little relativity to your claims. The USA has a GDP around 50x that of Thailand for a population around 6x. They can afford subsidies, and waste.
Want to compare productivity of US farmers with Thai farmers?
Of course that is true. The question is whether the policy was implemented for good reason and the corruption came because this is Thailand so everything is corrupt, or whether the policy was implemented solely for the purposes of corrupt people getting their money on the loot. Imposssible to say perhaps? Just because USA can afford more, does that mean poorer countries should do nothing to help farmers?
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This timing is crucial evidence (if substantiated). Allowing a leeway from friends who presumably were wired or tired, let's suppose they left at 3.30 am. Not unreasonable? By the time they meandered to the beach, settled down to talk or otherwise, it could be 4 a.m or even later.
Who would be awake at that time?
Possibly those still at the club/bar, and maybe a few insomniacs, or even early starters like fishermen and menial cleaners. The B2 were left to their own devices at 1 am when their friend took a third bottle of beer to them. Would they still be on the beach three hours later at 4 a.m, knowing that they had to work the next day, no more beer, and nothing happening? Possibly, but unlikely.
A witness stated he found the B2 ASLEEP in their beds at 5 a.m. Given a run back to their abode, that leaves a maximum window of less than ONE hour to commit rape and murder.
Not impossible, but unlikely that any stable person would be able to sleep following that horrific crime. What can be discounted is that they were high on Ya Ba, which is a keep-awake drug.
Another example of reasonable doubt?
tony responds: -
The crime happens at 4.am so you can discount Yaba which is a keep awake drug ? do you read the crap you write ?
A witness finding them in Bed at 5am who goes and checks on there friends at 5 in the morning ? if they were asleep how did the witness get in the room ?
It's factual, Tony. Read up on it. And that's being polite.
One would assume that someone who lives somewhere has the means to get into it without requiring their roommates to open the door.
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Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.
Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.
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Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.
There again, stranger things have happened.
What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.
Take your pick.
But none of the late Ms. Witheridge's friends apparently have said that they saw her with any Thai guy that evening although Mr. Terry and others have offered reasons why she could have been but nobody would have noticed. But they did notice here as above with the late Mr. Miller.
No it doesn't. If he had been lying down (on her as you and the RTP insinuate) when one of the boy struck him with the hoe, then how could there have been none of his blood (and dna) on her clothes and body?
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Yes, Brazil is still over 50% forest but "must" stop deforestation. How about If the third world demanded the U.K get rid of most of its farms and return the land to nature.
Anyway IIRC fishing is less than 2% of gdp so even if the EU ban happened it would be a loss of less than .2% (EU being 10% of fish exports so not even counting domestic consumption). But it surely would be less than that as other countries would step in and buy it, even at slightly lower prices. So hardly the devastating loss to the country that some posters make out.
How many of those of you complaining about Thais disregard for the environment are vegans or vegetarians I wonder? The hypocrisy is strong, not just coming from governments but individuals as well.
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And to think over 1.5 trillion baht has gone into schemes to help them over a ten year time span!!
Where has that money gone. Any PTP ministers in debt?
And the US governernment spends 650 billion a year on subsidies. So in 1 year that would wipe out more than double the farmers debt. And the other 9 years would be 4 times what the PTP government spent,
Are all American and EU farmers uneducated morons who should be thrown off their land because they can't compete without help?
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Where has Watana been for the last year?
If anything the Junta has been consistent in blantantly restricting people's liberties.
Did Watana somehow miss the fact that the constitution was abolished along with Thai rights and liberties?
I doubt the charged 14 anti-coup protest students would be allowed to leave the country.
Why would Watana think he is different?
Because they were arrested and are awaiting trial. He, as far as anyone has said so far, is not.
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Forgot to take your meds again? He was an appointed Commerce Minister in the PTP government (AFAIK he was never an MP) how could he NOT implicated in the scam?
Well i have looked through all reports on the current rice scam, and there is not one single mention of him..... Is he standing trial?
Perhaps there are other cases in process?
Perhaps there are, but thats not what i was asking. Halloween, Animatic etc implied they were implicated in the rice scam and part of the Commerce ministry and he was held for malfeasance.. I stand to be corrected but i cannot see anything linking him to any of them.
Perhaps a future Govt wants to stop X,Y and Z from travelling because there is some secretive case that only certain people know about.... i presume you would be okay with that to....
He was involved in the rice scam as Deputy and then actual Commerce Minister. No he is not facing trial yet nor does he need to be.
I refer you to post #26. Governments have the right to refuse travel outside the country to their citizens, and other countries do so regularly. Convicted paedophiles, other criminals and radicalised muslim youth will/may not be issued passports by the Oz government. If the current Thai government want him to stay here because they believe that he may be charged or required as a witness, they have the right to do so.
You left out the important part though. "These requests are called refusal/cancellation requests. Sections 12, 13, 14 and 16 of the Act set out the circumstances where a competent authority may make a refusal/cancellation request."
Main relevant circumstances include there must be an arrest warrant out or they must believe stopping the person leaving will prevent injury/harm to another. Doesn't say those authorities can prevent whoever they feel like from travelling for as long as they want without any reason.
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If I understand the Thai libel/defamation laws, based on the 1805/Three Seals, that even if the allegations are proven to be true, if the injured party has been shown to have lost prestige, then the accuser can be found guilty of defamation. So in this case, whether the RTN did what the article (original Reuters or P*wan re-quote) says is irrelevant. The RTN is the "higher power" here, and was made to look bad. That's all they have to prove, unfortunately.
The law(s) should be changed, or adjudicated as written/currently interpreted based on precedence, rather than capriciously dropped or dismissed.
No this is most certainly incorrect. You need to prove that what was said is true and that although what you said makes someone look bad (or makes them lose prestige), it was in the public's interest to know about it.
This is also the case in the vast majority of countries. If you know a dirty, little secret about someone and start telling everyone they know- friends, family, employer etc. you most certainly can be sued if it causes them loss, despite the fact that what you are telling people is true. Newspapers get away with it because they are supposedly writing about people of public interest. They couldn't for example print a story about Joe Nobody cheating on his wife.
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Sean knows what happened. Read between the lines of his Facebook posts "I know you tried to stop it" and "you're the most honorable man I've ever met". David came across this savagery as did Sean.... David fought and paid with his life, Sean was warned away and ran. Sean is a coward and he is in part responsible. Find the little weasel and lets get to the bottom of this.
I think he "knows" what happened just like a thousand others allegedly do on the island i.e he has 0 proof and anything he says will be hearsay and useless in court. I think his feelings of guilt come from being somewhat involved in the drug trade on the island and feeling that he should have known something like this was going to happen sooner or later.Maybe he introduced one of David or Hannah's friends to the notorious family. Don't think if he had any intimate knowledge of what happened he would have been allowed to leave.
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Maybe it's because the typical farang in Isaan (the ones I meet anyway) is NOT:
ill-educated
boring
prone to blind falling-down drunken bouts on a regular basis
a freguent yaba user
work shy (job or around the house)
secretive about where he goes at night
mysoginist when it comes to women's place in the world
lacking in any motivation for his own and his family's lives
Give me a 60 year old farang over a 35 year old Isaan male any day of the week
Stand up and be proudly counted you Isaan farangs
I think the women who marry the old farangs couldn't even get the ill-educated, falling down drunk, yaba using mysoginists. I could be wrong of course. Could those involved in relationships where the age difference is 20 years plus say whether their wife/girlfriend has children from a previous relationship. I imagine few don't.
Nice of you to think you are doing the ladies such a favour by being so much better than the local men, but why not then marry someone with near as much "wisdom" or at least life experience as you.
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Thailand is the only country in the world, where the chief suspect for a serious double murder charge is given a televised DNA test in front of the country's police chief!
That charade was simply incredible, even for Thailand.
Actually if he'd been a suspect at the time it might have made some sense. The police chief taking time out of his busy schedule to have a press conference for someone who had already been cleared just to silence some baseless internet rumors (if that's all they were) makes none.
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Let us ALSO not forget that a week ago the
Head Surat Thani Prosecutor was murdered in his home.
The person with the most knowledge of the evidence and it's provenance died with his throat slashed, sitting in a chair in his home.
Ostensibly a robbery gone wrong, but oh so convenient for this case, if you want to direct a verdict based on fear and intimidation on all levels... Not just scaring off of a translator....
But that (unrelated though it is) doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists and would only benefit the 2 Burmese defendants....
Sorry, I'm confused! "doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists" ???
JDinasia's throws out 'conspiracy theorist' when he's/she's flummoxed, and can't think of anything else to say.
If looking for a conspiracy, look no further than a couple of RTP top brass and perhaps Mon and a few others in there with them. They thought they could stitch up a plausible scenario - which would nail the scapegoats. More importantly, divert attention away from the origianal two prime suspects. But now their mean-spirited ruse is unraveling - in front of the world.
As for the prosecutor who was recently murdered: I'll re-state my prior questions, in the hope someone can answer them: Was he involved with this case? And if so, did he indicate any wavering from the required company line? If so, we'll never know, because nefarious people have devious means of killing people. At those islands, it seems common for people to get away with murder, literally.
http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/killing-surat-thani-prosecutor-man-confesses-to-murder/103840/ Niwat surrendered to police and allegedly confessed that he killed Phayong after learning that the prosecutor, with whom he allegedly had been having a sexual relationship for eight years, was seeing another man.
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I didn't think there was any DNA evidence to retest, we are told it is lost.
The "less important" DNA eg. from the cigarette butt is used up or maybe lost. The more important DNA is supposedly safe in Bangkok.
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Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.
Of course I've considered that remote possibility. But their size and their confession along with the reenactment made no sense. If someone could come up with a plausible explanation for how those two tiny men, who were undoubtedly very tired and probably fairly drunk managed to overpower a man much bigger than them and have him sustain the wounds he did while they suffered none, while at the same time ensuring that Hannah did not escape then I might consider it possible. But instead we have had nonsensical story after story from the RTP.
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Nobody can tell if the cop was sleeping, that was just put out to make her seem less guilty of killing him, almost certainly she was pissed or under the influence of drugs. Another day another Thai injustice.
So you think he wasn't sleeping? What do you think he was doing on the side of the road at 3am.
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congrats.
you are now the 3rd person to claim success.
I reported online with no problem (and I didn't even enter my flight number which I thought would be an issue). So am i number 4 or was someone missed out?
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10 July 2015
Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court toldPolice on Koh Tao tried to persuade a witness at the Witheridge-Miller crime scene into saying that he had wiped blood off an alleged murder weapon, according to Aung Myo Thant, a lawyer for the defence team.
Speaking to DVB on Thursday evening, the lawyer said the court heard testimony from a Burmese migrant named U Oh, who was a garbage collector on Sairee Beach during the period in September 2014 when British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered.
“U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said. “A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”
But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.
https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664
And so the comedy of errors continue. One thing about lying is that one needs to keep inventing more and more creative lies to try and uphold the first lie.
Always best to tell the truth because the story will then be always consistent.
The police officer must be right, the migrant garbage collector is mistaken. While my statement is sarcastic, it highlights the difficulties the defence has to discredit an officer duty-bound to uphold the law, and thus a more credible witness than a migrant garbage cleaner who is just sticking up for his countrymen. Could the PO be one of JLC's perjured witnesses? Or is it U Oh?
Many on here have commented for months how ridiculous it was the RTP sticking to the story of the hoe being the murder weapon considering what the wounds looked like. But of course according to a few- the rtp had the murder weapon as "evidence" and anything else (including testing and expert opinions on the likely weapons used) were of course conspiracy theories and hearsay. As others have said it is bizarre how little effort has been made to actually come up with a frame-job that made any sense. I'm sure I could have done better in a couple of days.
The one thing that worries me is that outside of England and Myanmar there seems to be little interest in the case. So how much effect will it really have on Thailand if they are found guilty when only two countries seem to be reporting or care about what a farce it is?
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So many things are wrong with this case. It would be helpful if someone took the time to list each event pertaining to the case in chronological order. For instance, Is it true one of the first headlines pertaining to this case was that the police wish to arrest the headman's son, then the policeman leading the case was taken off it, a new guy took over and immediately proclaimed the headman's son innocent happily taking smiling pictures with him for the media? The new policeman on the case said forensic DNA evidence proved the headman's son was innocent. How could this be? Apparently there is no DNA testing available on Kho Tao so the evidence has to go to Bangkok where it takes about 48 hours to process. Then the (alleged) doctored CCTV puts the headman's son in Bangkok the day after the murders, but there are many who saw him on KT on day of murder. All very suspicious behavior.
1. The crime scene is totally contaminated with hundreds turning up for a media circus on the beach.
2. Headlines that the headman's son is wanted for the murder, the chief of police investigation is taken off the case then immediately the new chief on the case proclaims the headman's son innocent.
3. The police keep making contradictory statements to the media.
4. Headlines that a Scotsman flees the Island after allegedly being threatened and hounded by a "mafia" gang who threaten to pin the case on him and hang him in the woods.
5. A man claims he is allegedly beaten up and tortured by police trying to frame him for the murders.
6. Two Burmese young men make confessions then immediately allege they were beaten up and tortured to extract the confessions.
7. Confusion over ownership of mobile phones makes the evidence look weak.
8. The Prime Minister congratulates the police on a job well done!
9. The police claim the evidence is perfect.
10. The courts keep telling the police the evidence is not good enough to be presented in court and ask them to go back and improve their case.
11. Claims from Britain they have DNA evidence that contradicts the police DNA results.
12. The defense asks the court to re-examine the DNA but it has all gone missing or has been used up. Effectively, there is no DNA evidence for presentation to the court. Only the police word that it was "perfect"
13. The head of police threaten the defense team outside the court telling them they should be supporting the police not the accused!
Am I missing anything important?
no investigation of the headmans's family
whitewashing event of Nomsod with the National police head
9. They didn't say the evidence was perfect. They said the investigation was perfect. Even a perfect investigation may not provide perfect evidence for many reasons (bad luck, perpetrator being smart and careful).
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I said at the time that any DNA evidence found at the scene wouldn't necessarily prove they killed the girl. They could have violated her after she was killed.
Oh that's OK then - apologise and let them go!!
Only you said that. Of course it's not ok. But it's a remotely plausible scenario, albeit macabre. Instead of flying off the handle, why don't you join those of us who are sincerely trying to gauge what the real evidence is, and where it leads - and who was really guilty of the heinous crime of double murder.
It's also not ok to steal a pair of sunglasses. But if that's the worst that the B2 did, we want to know, so as not to see them executed for worse crimes - as scapegoats for evil men who, it appears, will get off scot-free - to kill and rape again - knowing they're untouchable.
Steffi did you see what was done to her face? It's bad enough thinking two people would want to have sex with a corpse....but to rape a corpse that was in that condition?
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The poster hasn't made himself clear.I want to give you every chance to understand what's happening in the UK on the news.The reporting has not been updated on the news and they have just been repeating what was said over night and this morning prior to the court this morning in Thailand. It was Johnathan Samuels for Sky who's translator was leaned on..be sure when the court finishes over there there will be a updated news report.This is really getting covered and I sense the news channels sense a massive story sadly for the relatives..I'm sorry but once again your clutching at straws and I'm not letting you away with it. Open your eyes to what's happening here by the hour..The case is going out the window very quickly.Sky News reporter talking about his translator being warned off by mafia
https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman/videos/1000772946621286/
So if the translator can no longer work for him how does he know what happened in the Courtroom?
Unfortunately there is a set of posters who wouldn't listen from day 1. They had made their minds up from the start. There comments are fairly hollow now.
I spoke to the coroners office who is handling Hannah's case and whilst he wouldn't comment directly he said it is normal practice to carry out a forensic Autopsy if the condition of the body permits. I am not privy to the results how ever the insinuations are that there will be a game changing revelation. The Defence are letting the prosecution dig a big hole first.
Only 2 days in and its falling apart. Lets hope both family's speak up. There not daft, they are educated people. They also know that the UK police where denied access to the forensic data back last November.
Such a shame that whatever happens nobody will know the truth it seems.
Yeah It was pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that the Brits wouldn't want to say anything to contradict the RTP before the trial to allow them to fabricate more evidence but rather spring it on them in court. Yet the same posters would keep on with their nonsense about how none of the friends of the murdered two contradicted anything the rtp said and that showed they agreed with them. It was also clear of course that in the same way they'd been told not to say anything that would allow the prosecution to have more time to cover the massive holes in the story. Everything the RTP said = proof. Everything else = speculation/hearsay/conspiracy theory!
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"We feel confident he will allow it," he said of tests the defence had been demanding for months in order for a "fair trial". The defence team had also complained about not being given access to the forensic evidence, despite the court initially ruling in April that they could run their own independent tests. "There's a real lack of adequate disclosure by the prosecution and that worries us about whether there will be a fair trial," Hall, from the Migrant Worker Rights Network, told AFP before the judge confirmed a decision on this would be reached today.
The forensic material from the crime scene has been used by Thai police and prosecutors to insist they had charged the right men, saying it strongly pointed to the Myanmar pair as the perpetrators.
I was under the impression that independent tests were allowed and had been done as requested by the defence, but it would appear not
not sure there is much to add to that, I will not comment but I'm sure others are thinking exactly what I am thinking
my thoughts are with the family at this very traumatic time, but I do want to see justice in this case ...and verification of the DNA evidence is a key factor, if the police are confident then what is the problem having it verified
Oh and I forgot - what was it that led the police to these two suspects in the first place, was it something about a phone being found outside their residence or something like that, in order to hunt down killers you have a trail of events that lead to the suspects being implicated - the DNA is just verification that the trail was correct
Not much. They were randomly rounding up young migrants for questioning (torture?). A group who were playing Sepak Takrow ran away from them. The three who managed to not get caught by some amazing coincidence then turned out to be the murderers. Well one of those caught confessed then withdrew his confession then implicated the other two then didn't implicate them. Then the other two confessed and then withdrew their confession.
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Hardback; I do not believe you have a clue what "Tyrannical Rule" is. Except for those cronies who want status quo from before you can hardly tell there was a coup !! I have lived here for over 11 years and I see many things changing for the good. This Country did not get this screwed up in two years and it will take much longer than that to make the changes.
As for these students, at their age I doubt they have a clue what the real world is about. Whatever, the rules are the rules, if you do not like them make change when the chance comes.
Dear General/PM keep flushing the device as the water is not clear yet !!
You would have to be brainwashed to go against tyrannical rule. Now lets find out who these brainwashers are and boot them out of the country! They'll be telling people they have human rights next - what an outrage
As long as you do exactly what the leader says your life will be fine. You may even be rewarded for your boot- licking. That is pretty much standard for tyranny. Just hope that what you want to do and what you are allowed to do stay the same. What could possibly go wrong?
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Are qualified English teachers exempt?
I'm guessing the article is assuming that Thai schools only hire unqualified teachers. Anyone qualified and working at an international school must submit a police check from their home country and country they have just been working in (if it's not the same) before they can work at the school. Echoing what others have said, I would have thought that a background check system was in place a long time ago!
Y'all are confusing the meanings of the words qualified and qualification. Being qualified doesn't only mean having the requisite degree(s). If you had them and then were convicted of committing a child-sex offense you would be disqualified from teaching. You would not get/keep a teaching license from your home country no matter whether you had a masters or doctorate. Therefore a qualified offender could only be one that has not been caught yet. Otherwise it's an oxymoron.
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"Women cant admit they do it, its a loss of their dignity.
Can't say that has been my experience. I remember when I first came to Thailand how much I was intrigued about how "ladies of the night" were being treated by other Thai people..... Like, when a foreigner would bring a lady of this occupation into a restaurant, I'd wait to see what the reaction of the waitress would be....would she look down her nose at her....same when a similar lady would come into the bank for something, I wondered how the bank staff would treat her....to my delight they were (are) treated with the greatest respect, almost with envy in fact, positively with envy in a lot of cases.
My thinking was brainwashed by the warped thinking of the West.
Nonsense. If it's in an area where a lot of rich customers are bringing ladies of the night the waitresses may feign courtesy if they've learnt it gets them a bigger tip. Prostitutes are not respected here by the average person.
Most girls are appalled by it and how many Thai guys would take the prostitutes home to meet the family and marry them like many westerners do? You shouldn't need to delude yourself to sleep better at night. Thailand is way more conservative than the west.
Why young Isaan ladies marry old farangs?
in Isaan
Posted
So the niece wants a 50+ year old farang husband, does she? If not then I'm not sure what the point of the anecdote is.