rockingrobin

5 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

You read a single source, a highly questionably article from Samuitimes then you start regurgitating it as absolute fact even adding your own nonsense to the story.

 

That is the exactly the stuff of conspiraloons, isn't it khun han?

A reporter is claimimg there is eye-witnesses casting doubt on the police explanation

20 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

sorry if my comment came across blunt, it was just for information.

 

with regards to the bottle and contents , Im unaware if thats been confirmed 100%

BP report on 30th June

Info provided by a member of the rescue team

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Just been doing some online research myself.

 

It seems this woman was heavily involved in a cult and according to reports was living with the guru there under an alias of Elise Dubuis. She had the cult symbol tattooed on her arm. Now it seems the guru, a German has done a runner (WHY?).

 

After the body was discovered it appears the police have just written this case off as another suicide, nice and convenient, case closed.

 

The obvious first port of call should be those who were living with her in that cult and the so-called guru, who must know something, but it seems no investigations or questioning of persons who knew her have been carried out. Also who or which authority lets this cult operate in Thailand and have their activities been scrutinised by anyone?

 

As I said; we need to know exactly what this woman was into and with whom? I don`t believe she just decided to visit Koh Tao on her own on the off chance, she must have had connections there, so who and what are they? And what exactly are they into? Lots more to the background then we are being told in the news. There are some weird goings on, on that island that needs to be brought out into the open instead of only being given garbled information, like a jigsaw puzzle with many pieces missing. Otherwise all this becomes a guessing game, which is exactly what it is.

According to the Guru , he left beause he had to do a visa run

Elise didnt actualty stay with him as a partner, but provided accomadation when she was there

He was aware Elise intended to return home to find some money, and return at a later date

He also said she appeared content 

2 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

i believe it was, the girl was cremated within 14 days and the mother left with her ashes, also stating that she believed the cult were involved in her death... its only since the samui times has spun it into a koh tao story that its posted everywhere

 

OK , 

According to the variuos articles Elise's phone. purse, a letter , bottle of whiskey, bottle (could be jerrycan) of benzine have been recovered.

Possibly the belgium press reporting her phone missing several weeks ago

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

The Chinese have a culture and history of "conquest by trade" and the Silk Road project was just another way of forwarding that.  Look at what they're doing by financing massive infrastructure Projects all over the developing world.  They gain a foothold, a strong chinese presence in potential markets, and they gain enormous influence of the way countries develop. In the end, the country finds itself beholden to the Chinese for the money and expertise needed to operate their own power, transport or whatever facilities that have been built under their auspices. 

But again you fail to address the issue, why would China encourage a Greek EU exit, considering the political and economic ties between themselves and the EU

12 minutes ago, jpinx said:

You and nontabury didn't read the book?   I mentioned why -- it was because the  chinese had just bought a large trading facility in Greece.....

 

That may be so but doesnt expain the political and economic intentions of the chinese and the silk road project

At the China - EU summit the chinese representative 

When Li was asked if China was willing to provide loans or other financial aid to help Greece during the press conference in Brussels, he responded by restating China’s preference for “a united Europe, and prosperous European Union, and a strong euro.” He continued: “As for the issue of Greek debt, in principle it is an internal affair of Europe. Having said that, whether Greece would stay within Europe is not only a question that concerns Europe but also concerns China and Europe… that is why China has made its own efforts to help Greece overcome the debt crisis.”

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Interestingly Yanis Varoufakis the ex Greek finance minister, in his book and in numerous interviews. Mentions that when he was in office, there was a plan for Greece to Exit the EU, defaulting on the European Banks, mainly German and French. The Chinese ambassador had brokered a plan for Chine to support Greece, by investing in Greece and buying large quantities of Greek Bonds etc,. 

An  agreement had been made,then the Chinese Ambassador informed the Greek government that after a call from Berlin, they the Chinese government had been persuaded not to go through with the agreement.

 

Why would China want to see or even encourage  Greece to leave the EU, considering the silk rd project and the EU being China's largest trading partner at that time

8 hours ago, FredNL said:

Does anyone have a clue where her missing mobile is???
According to her mother it is missing. It wasn't returned with her belongings.

 

Ahh. I think it will be probably found near some cabins where Burmese are living.

Have you got a link , quote about the phone missing

I have a report that states the police are in possesion of her phone

26 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

The article is being updated while I am even reading it. 

Police confirmed she was not found hanging. 

She was found dead 8 days after she checked in in the second resort (supposedly)

 

Murder family?

Apologies , but can you clarify , when you state  ' police confirmed she was not found hanging ', is this an actual quote, if so do you know the name of the person making this statement.

42 minutes ago, smedly said:

I think you are pretty close except for the first part, I think someone entered her bungalow with the intention of rape and she fought back and perhaps during the struggle knocked over an incense candle or similar, the only part that doesn't fit is about her belongings being found on the ferry although police have denied that. As for the logistics of hanging yourself from a tree.............that is not something that is easy to do

 

Either way not much of it makes any sense and now there is not a shred of evidence left to dispute any of it

What was the reason for 2 autopsies

8 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

The statement made by A TV commentator well before the incident has never been raised in any inquiry or any media source. SO DON'T LIE! There was more fans than the ground was capable of holding. Otherwise the incident would never have happened. You must like breeding scapegoats. Try answering about who was responsible for the oversupply of tickets.

Whilst the ground safety crtificate was no longer valid.The evidence suggestsa lack of formal control to the filling and subsequent overcrowding of the  central pens

' 2.3.123 Police Constable Jim Walpole recalled that at '2.55pm the central pen for standing at the Leppings Lane end appeared to be absolutely packed solid whilst the pen towards the Police Control was about half full and the pen towards the North Stand was perhaps only one sixth full. For normal big games the standing fans at the Leppings Lane terrace have filled each pen slowly well before kick off'.[81] The following sentence was deleted: 'I did not hear any radio message for the entrance to the central pen to be closed off, despite this being packed solid'.  '

Now being reported police ordered to re-open case,

Why did Elise feel the need to use a fake name, and the police carry out 2 autopsies

There's an interesting amendment debate that has been selected today , Stella Creasy , about the ineqality treatment of women in NI with regards to healthcare.

9 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I read the reports at the time. Errors of professional judgement were made. That's it. There was no malicious intent. Professionals have a moral responsibility to do the best they can, not a legal responsibility to be godlike.

They have a legal duty of care

42 minutes ago, jpinx said:

As I recall, Australia and India were amongst several large nations who were expressing a desire to quickly set up a new deal with independent UK.

I never understand this.  How does the EU dictate who UK can talk to?  All the negotiating can be done, the contracts pencilled in and only waiting for Brexit day to come and the appropritate signatures to be added. 

The issue about not being able to deals whilst still being a member of the EU is a sideshow. The Uk went to India last year in an attempt to gain a favourable start to trade, but the stumbling block was visa's for indian nationals.

The problem for the UK is whilst still being a member of the EU , how deep can the negotations with other countries  go, without knowing what the EU agreement will be .

Just now, perthperson said:

 

Was this occurrence unique or not ?  If not (as you seem to be saying) how often did it occur ?  

 

Details would assist my understanding. Can you provide links to the press reports about similar occurrences 

see  my edited post

7 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Noted 

 

I stand corrected -- so, according to you,  this was not a unique occurrence and every year (or every match day?) 1000's attempted to break into already full pen(s).  

 

Am I now understanding this "history" correctly ? 

 

 

I did not say every match or even every matchday, my statement is that the situation was not unique .

The fans were not trying to brake into a full pen , they was directed into it

crowd problems 1981 semi final

delayed kick off due to crowd 1987 semi final

Crushing  1988 semi final

18 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Very nice, but there is culpable negligence such as reckless driving, or leaving a baby in a hot car - and there is professional misjudgement. Quite different. Doctors aren't prosecuted for misdiagnoses, army generals aren't prosecuted for bad strategic decisions, judges and juries aren't prosecuted for getting a sentence wrong, politicians aren't prosecuted for ANY of their mistakes. Misjudgements are made daily by all these people and many more. Mistakes should have consequences, but not legal, or people will be able to bring 'blame' cases to court for everything and there'll be no end to it. It's a recipe for a world I wouldn't want to live in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11975150/Hospital-doctor-found-guilty-of-manslaugher-after-blunders-left-a-six-year-old-boy-dead.html

14 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Are you trying to say that every year 1000s of people without tickets attempted to break into an already full stadium?  

 

I do not think so........

No, you need to look at the history of the stadium prior to the tragedy.

The stadium itself was not full , the pen the fans entered was full, however other adjacent areas were empty

14 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

Shocking idea. Get trained get educated get shown the correct procedures get adequate experience but make a m mistake and it's ok. So a Doctor can accidentally kill a kid and it's ok or a train driver can make an error and kill innocents and that's OK no prosecution. Welcome to being British mate its called Justice 

19 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

It's called misfortune. Get over it.

1932 Donoghue v Stevenson

1 hour ago, perthperson said:

"He was wrong, a trial may well be a warning to others, but was it negligence or incompetence?"  

 

I think it will be virtually impossible to prove  negligence given the passage of time and the fact that this was a unique crowd control issue. 

 

Of greater concern are the accusations of collusion coupled with the alteration of evidence- ------- Agree ...

It wasnt a unique crowd control situation. The same stadium suffered similiar crowd problems in previuos years.

Amendment defeated by 14 votes

19 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

So you think public servants should be prosecuted for their professional misjudgements? This is exactly the issue, so it needs a clear answer.  And remember that if you prosecute one misjudgement, then you have to start prosecuting them all.

 

Perjury? Being contingent on an inadmissible threat of prosecution, then I would say those circumstances logically render the accusation invalid too.

 

'Unlawfully killed' was little more than an opinion - publicly swayed - and quite misguided, to my mind.

 

The inquest was all very well for lessons to be learned, but not as the basis for a legal scape-goating to salve the country's conscience because something went wrong. It's really all part of the cry-baby syndrome that has swept over society - people can't accept misfortune any more and their first impulse is to find someone to blame.

It wasn't misfortune , the deaths occured as a result of a failure to act in some instances and also  the result of actions carried out in others.

Everybody will make mistakes , that is part of being human, however it is the nature of the consequences and the level of responsibility of  the person making such decisions

19 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Grenfell didn't involve 'heat of the moment' judgements by the police. The judgements being weighed in the Hillsborough case were unique to that particular event.

 

The Hillsborough case needlessly jeopardises an important principle: whether a policeman is legally culpable for judgements made in his job, which are often in unique,  unpredictable, spur of the moment situations. The police need to be protected from that kind of witch-hunt - as are politicians, who have far less excuse for their errors of judgement, but which can equally cause loss of life.

 

Why should judgement by subject to the law at all? Who has never made a wrong judgement? Even the judge in any courtroom will admit to having made errors of judgement in his time that have caused suffering. Is he to be prosecuted for making legal misjudgements? It becomes farcical once you start going down that road.

 

There's also the distinct danger here of being swayed by  'social justice' crusader mentality - nobody dare dismiss these cases out of hand nowadays for fear of incurring the wrath of the tabloids, and so very possible we shall see all reason fly out of the courtroom window.

Everybody has a duty of care