IntEdSource

On 2/12/2020 at 2:27 PM, BobbyL said:

Interesting question.

 

I work in a British international school, but I am not fully clued up on all of the governing side of things.

 

OPEC (Office of Private Education Commission) seem to be referred as the company who control international / private schools in Thailand. In my experience, I have never known them to visit the school in any capacity with regards to teaching and learning. As I assume all the staff at OPEC are Thai, I very much doubt what they can do that is beneficial to a western managed international school and most likely have their name there just for the sake of it. 

 

ISAT (International Schools Association of Thailand) is who most international schools are members of. In theory, they don't 'govern' the school, but promote certain standards, guidelines etc that schools adhere to and they do make key decisions such as recently with the pollution and the coronavirus.

 

We are a member of CIS (Council of International Schools) who act like an OFSTED body that come to monitor and inspect the school every 4 or 5 years (I think). A thorough report has to be submitted to CIS every so often to outline strengths and weaknesses and what new policies are being put in place. However, a CIS visit is absolutely nothing like an OFSTED visit in the UK. 

 

The Thai Ministry of Education probably have to stamp a piece of paper somewhere along the line for international schools, but as far as I am aware, have no control over what actually goes on day to day. I believe the only thing they do stipulate is how many hours a week that the students must learn Thai (2 hours for non - Thai students and 3 hours for Thai students is usually the norm per week). 

Most of these points are correct, though I would add a few clarifications:

• OPEC is the department of the Ministry of Education tasked with--as you observed--oversight of private and international schools. They coordinate with the Office for National Education Standards & Quality Assessment (ONESQA) in ensuring that schools under their purview meet standards. However, within the last two years there has been a shift to allow this to be a process guided by the overseas accrediting bodies, whose findings are then confirmed by ONESQA's report. It's unclear as to whether this will continue to be the process in the future.
• Since ISAT is an organization for which membership is voluntary, it does not have the power to make decisions in respect to closures. Member schools must follow directives from OPEC and in turn the Ministry of Education, just as was the case for the current quarantine for students/families who have traveled to countries identified as high risk due to the spread of COVID-19.
• All other overseas accrediting bodies follow their own processes for quality assurance, and many are actually quite intensive, including CIS. The final reports from their visits often exceed 100 pages and cover multiple aspects of the school, including academics, culture, governance, operations, etc.
• International schools are granted a specific license that distinguishes them from other private schools and requires that they include particular points in their charters. Additionally, they are also still required to abide by all of the regulations in the Private School Act.

1. This case does indeed involve a top international school, one that is very well recognized and employs a large number of foreign teachers. This was why the applications did not initially raise any red flags.
2. It is common at this school, and others like it, to have a small government liaison team who handles all paperwork for the foreign teachers.
3. A single case had been previously brought to their attention by immigration based on a discrepancy in the paperwork. When asked if the documents belonged to one of their teachers, they indicated that the person in question did not work for them at all. At that point they investigated the employee referenced in the article and discovered that she had been using the school's name to provide others with visas and work permits. She claimed this was the only case, but her employment was terminated at that point.
4. Following this, she and her accomplice attempted to continue processing the fake documents, at which point they were caught.
   
   The reason they have not released the name of the school is that it would cause unnecessary harm to their reputation. This was illegal on the part of the employee, not the school, and she is rightfully being held liable.
   
    

21 hours ago, dakineto said:

I studied at BSM as well and never heard about that difference or anyone there explained it to me.   

 

Sorry, but the whole response sounds like to be written by BSM/EGS and not a fellow graduate.  

You are exactly right @dakineto and the response you received from a brand new account is hilarious: 'don't let insecure thoughts ruin something amazing'. In other words, don't listen to the person who has a record of posting on this forum and said that he is also a former student.

You are also right about BSM writing it. They simply copied what they already have uploaded on their website: https://www.bsm.ac.th/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/European-Global-School-EGS-@-BSM-Thailand-RecognitionProfile-Information-.pdf

The many red flags should be obvious. Again, people should be objective and rational by researching facts on their own.

• The second page shows BSM's certificate from the ASIC (http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory). Also listed on that page is European International University (EIU), another Paris-based 'university' with no actual physical location. (Check Google street view again. It's a storefront in a major shopping area!)
  • Look at the people listed on the team page of the EIU website: https://eiu.ac/who-we-are/team. Pay close attention to the ones in Business Development and Executive Board. Do exact Google searches (with quotation marks) of all of the people. What kind of results do you find? Do these reflect what you what expect to see in the profiles of deans, university presidents and other executives? Do you notice similarities in many of the other institutions they are connected to on their very brief LinkedIn profiles, especially in terms of location?
• The third page shows a letter from EGS titled 'Certification of Affiliation'. Look at the recipient. Does that person also appear on the EGS and EIU websites? Google that person. What results do you find? Look at the sender and Google that person. Does this appear to be the profile of a university vice president?
• The seventh page is identified as a 'Letter of Confirmation from French Embassy in Thailand'. It is not from the French Embassy. Campus France Thailand is a consulting agency, identified as such on their Facebook page. Google search the person who signed the letter. Is there any indication that they ever worked for the French Embassy? Contact the embassy and ask them. What is their response?

There is an extraordinary amount of effort in the rest of the document put towards defending the validity of EGS and by extension BSM and EIU. Like all of the other points, this should raise a red flag. Do thorough research and form your own opinion about all of these institutions, especially in relation to institutions in France: https://www.campusfrance.org/en/certification-labels-institutes-France. Do not fall for accusations of being irrational, emotional or negative.

A very good assessment of some of the other red flags can be found here: https://www.quora.com/Is-the-European-Global-University-and-European-Global-School-accredited-by-ASIC.

@philipnz Your instincts are right on this. Due to Thailand's strong libel laws, I won't say much here, but do a few things:

• Look up the "head office" in Paris and go to Google's street view. Do you see any signs or any indication whatsoever of a university, or even an office, being there? Compare what you see to the website's images.
• Google search each of the people listed under the Deans & Faculty page (which itself doesn't reflect how universities typically publish full directories of their faculty) using exact searches (with the names in quotations) and look for their LinkedIn profiles, as well as any other content. Do you notice something about their locations? (Note the plural.)
• In particular, pay attention to what you find for the person listed as their Head of Institutions. What do you find in relation to his background? What other institutions does he seem to be connected to? 
• Try to verify some of the data on their Facts & Figures page. Can you find external sources to corroborate any of what you see there?

This has been ongoing for years in Bangkok with particular people connected to this institution and unfortunately have never been held accountable.

In fairness, a few factors make this more reasonable:

• While Thailand's GDP per capita remains low in comparison to Singapore and other more developed economies, the share of wealth held by the top 20% has been decreasing since the early 1990s, while those of the second 20% and third 20% have been increasing, meaning there is a robustly growing middle class. (I suspect that if we were able to isolate the top 1%, however, their share of the wealth would also be growing.) Although many of the larger international schools would still be out of their reach, a significant number of affordable schools are affordable for a middle class Thai family.
• This is particularly true of Bangkok, as the greater metro area accounts for nearly half of Thailand's GDP. The average household income in the city is thus significantly higher than it is in other locations, and the greatest concentration of international schools is naturally there.
• Demand for places at international schools has stayed high despite the market being saturated. Over 100 international kindergartens and schools are now in operation in Bangkok, yet only one (St. John's) has closed due to enrollment issues (as well as other factors). Even more are set to open in 2020--most of which will be on the higher end in respect to fees. Combined with the projections of continued growth in GDP per capita, it's unlikely this will change.

That being said, I do agree that there is a significantly higher disparity between overall GDP per capita and international school fees here than in other countries.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Nourish Cafe on soi 50. They have an entirely vegan menu with some great-tasting options. I found them through FoodPanda.

4 hours ago, sirocco said:

intEdSource, post 39

 

Well, let's see how the teenager can continue to put the bazard in school,
  since dad will file a complaint for abuse of authority.
Nice pedagogical.
It reminds me of my country where children and parents beat teachers.
The children are so kind, so respectful.

@sirocco, as I indicated in my post, I'm not making any judgment as to whether or not his son's actions or the school's responses are appropriate. However, the fact is that the school is in violation of MOE regulations, regardless of whether any of us feel that is right or wrong.

I work in international education and have done so for over a decade. Except in the most extreme cases, I don't believe children should be expelled as a punitive measure. Our job is to help children learn from mistakes and failure now so that when they reach adulthood they are more resilient and capable of making better decisions. Looking back to your own childhood, I'm sure you could list out many mistakes that you made, just as all of us can.

@revup: I'm not going to comment on the appropriateness of your son's actions, nor whether the attempted expulsion is a valid consequence. However, from a legal perspective the school cannot expel your son. Expulsion was banned by the Ministry of Education in the 2005 amendment to the regulations on disciplinary actions. The reason they were so likely willing to refund the tuition is that they were hoping you'll take the offer and leave quietly. At this point, assuming you haven't signed any sort of agreement that indicates you withdrew voluntarily, you have legal grounds to sue the school.

BKK Kids always provides a relatively comprehensive list each year.

4 hours ago, fruitman said:

Well then who hired those chinese to do their exams in Thailand?? They sure gave Mahidol a very bad reputation by doing this...and the fact they are not mentioned makes me think in a certain direction...

 

Also it's weird that Mahidol didn't clean themselves from this and just stopped doing these exams for whoever they ordered those chinese cheaters. This story isn't over yet i assume.

Families from China presumably hired them, as the Bangkok Post article mentioned that they would have received payment upon their return to China.

It's unfortunately not as straight-forward as it may seem. When an institution registers as an test center, they do not have the ability to reject anyone who applies to take the exam (providing the registration is handled properly and payment is made, which is directly to the test creators). The registrants could be entirely composed of students from outside that institution. Mahidol did exactly what it should have in this case: it followed the proper guidelines from the ACT, enabling the cheaters to be caught.

This is also not uncommon. Over the last two years, both the SAT and ACT exams have been canceled in numerous locations due to a fear of leaks, including in Thailand, South Korea, Hong Kong and elsewhere. When one is shut down, the cheaters simply move to another, as there are thousands of registered test centers around the world. It's not a reflection of the schools that choose to be those centers; it's a reflection of the culture of cheating.

Mahidol was simply serving as the test center; at no point was it suggested that its students were the ones who hired these individuals. On the contrary, more extensive articles elsewhere have indicated that they were to be paid upon returning to China by those who hired them there.

It's quite common for Chinese students to register to take these exams outside China, as the results from exam centers within the country are often looked upon as suspect for this very reason.

25 minutes ago, OzMan said:

Where can I get details ad I would like to visit the fair.


Sent from my SM-G955F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The fair that was being referred to is the Search Associates (SA) Bangkok Job Fair. However, keep in a mind a few points if you want to attend:

• You must first be registered with SA and be invited by your assigned associate after indicating your interest. People aren't allowed to simply show up for the event.
• Getting to the point of having your SA account active means paying the fee and having all of your referees submit their recommendations within the system, after which you can request to attend.
• Only a small number of international schools in Thailand actually use SA. This year only seven will be attending the fair, while all of the other schools represented will be from other countries. If someone is attending solely with the aim of getting a job at an international school in Bangkok, this fair is actually not ideal.

@Amberd The international school market here is very large, so there are several differing answers to your questions. First, simply in terms of the best overall packages (salary and benefits), International School Bangkok, NIST International School and Bangkok Patana School offer more than any others. They each provide around 150,000 baht/month (gross/lesser net amount quoted at BPS) at the bottom of their scales, as well as housing, flights, insurance, bonuses, free tuition for up to two children, etc. However, all three are also well into their hiring season for the 2019-2020 school year, so many of their open positions have already been filled. Finding one that matches to your specific background may be difficult.

Other decent schools that have learning support departments include St. Andrews and Harrow, both of which have decent packages as well. As you look at the smaller schools, you'll find fewer and fewer.

Hiring differs greatly from school to school. While you can apply directly to virtually all of them, some have specific processes for this, particularly for leadership positions. ISS-Schrole Advantage, Search Associates are TES are all good options, but you'll first want to look to see whether learning support positions are available at schools advertising through them. There's no sense spending the money to create an account for the coming year if there is nothing available.

Similarly, the types of information schools want to know about candidates can vary greatly, and there is no set standard mandated by the Ministry of Education or Office of the Private Education Commission that oversees international schools. Beyond a standard CV with educational background and experience, the types of information you may want to have prepared are a summary of your recent professional development and any other certifications or qualifications that may be relevant to a teaching environment. References will be crucial, particularly if you're applying through one of the services above, as they require that the referees enter the information themselves.
 

2 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

My apologies, I thought this was a different blended program from another running thread. I've no idea about the program. But if Chulalongkorn is #1 and has QS 800. Where is this school in ranking?

Which one were you thinking of? I know quite a few programs are now being offered here from US universities, but all of them are on-site, with the professors being flown in when the courses are running. NIST has two going: the College of New Jersey and SUNY Buffalo. Bangkok Prep has Endicott College, and Framingham is now at both Wells and Bangkok Christian College. The UK-based University of Nottingham has a PGCEi that is primarily online with one required physical meeting.

Out of all of these, Framingham and the College of New Jersey programs are probably the most intensive (purely in respect to stress), as the sessions are in two-week blocks and run the whole day. SUNY Buffalo is the highest-ranked university, but they're all decent schools, even if not ranked as high as Chula. (Frankly, I'd take any of them over Chula just because of the cultural differences and the style of learning in US university programs.)

On 10/27/2018 at 9:23 PM, ozmeldo said:

I used to think it was a really decent program as online blended learning goes. Lots of teachers, even in intl schools do it. But recently I've run into two teachers who I really wished they were nowhere near a classroom. Plenty of crap teachers in US as well. Still I was shocked. The irony is they appear to think they are good teachers. Kids seem to really dislike both.

To be fair, I've also met crap teachers with degrees in education from top 100 universities in the US and the UK. I think the common denominator is simply being crap!

On 8/30/2018 at 5:13 AM, missoura said:

Anyway, how many Thais can afford this? How many expats make B200,000 a month? Not that many. 

There are actually plenty of Thais who can afford them, hence the very large number of existing schools, most of which either have steady or growing enrollment. Of the well-established international schools, only St. John's has permanently closed, and that was after years of experiencing multiple internal issues. This may change as the market becomes even further saturated, but at this point there is enough demand.
 

On 8/30/2018 at 5:13 AM, missoura said:

At the end of the day, being accepted to and actually attending a university is two separate things.

You're spot-on in your assessment of this area. Look at the graduation announcements or news releases from ISB, BPS and NIST compared to other schools. These three release matriculation lists: where their students will attend or are currently attending. Others more often just publish acceptances lists, but few of the graduates actually go on to attend those universities.

Building on this, how many universities are students applying to? In the case of the big three, students are limited in the number of applications they can make in order to assure universities that the applications are serious. Other schools encourage students to apply to as many as possible in order to bolster their acceptances lists.

You have several options that will each depend on your financial situation and long-term goals.

If you opt to stay in Thailand and pursue a qualification here, there are multiple on-site master's programs available. I would not recommend an online program, as many international schools still view them as inferior, whether that is accurate or not. Most of these programs, however, can be nearly the same cost as they would be in the United States, meaning you will need to have money to spare, and they do not include licensure. Additionally, remaining in Thailand means slowly working your way up the chain of schools. Even the best international schools - NIST, ISB and BPS - do recruit a few teachers from smaller international schools each year, but those teachers represent a handful among an average two to three dozen hires, and sometimes several hundred applications. Taking this route would be difficult if you ultimately want to end up in a top school with an excellent salary and benefits package.

A second option is pursuing a qualification here, gaining experience in a smaller international school and then shifting to better schools in other countries, with the long-term goal of returning to Thailand. This is more viable, as it widens the pool of schools that would be willing to consider you. As soon as you're able to land a position at a decent upper mid-tier school, you greatly increase your chances of being hired at a top school here in Thailand. At some point in this path, you would also want to seek out ways to acquire a teaching license; some states allow you to take the Praxis while abroad, making it much easier, or you could enroll in a summer program that leads to licensure. The obvious downside to this approach is that you would have to leave Thailand (unless it's simply a return to the United States that you want to avoid).

Finally, you can accept that you will have a few years back home while you pursue a master's degree there. This frankly is the most viable route for eventually getting into a top school, as you will acquire your license at the same time through your practicum, making you much more appealing as a hire. You would also then have the option of gaining a little more experience in public or private schools at home before shifting to international schools. Again, this route would greatly raise your chances of eventually ending up in a top school here in Thailand.

Regardless of which route you choose, map out your goals and how you intend to get there. By planning in advance and being diligent about accomplishing those goals, you'll have far more success in your career in international education.

I have used Bangkok Tailors House (in MBK) ever since I moved to Thailand eight years ago. In at least half a dozen visits there, I've only had a minor issue with a shirt once. Every other suit and shirt they've made for me has been excellent. Fair warning: I've never sent them measurements to have a suit made. It's far better to visit the shop, as measurements can vary based on a large number of factors. When I had to attend a wedding back in the U.S., I sent my measurements only to discover that the suit that was waiting for me did not fit at all.

@Jonmarleesco: If you are in fact referring to the school in question, you are completely wrong in almost every respect. This school is owned by a Taiwanese businessman and offers an American curriculum. The building next to it that is currently being demolished was formerly a car dealership and had no connection to the school. The Thai owners of that building and business (brothers who inherited it) hired another company to demolish it, and the proper safety procedures were not followed in doing so.

The school does not own the land on which the dealership stands, and it is unlikely that it will be purchasing it.

NIST International School is hosting the country's first-ever EdCamp Bangkok on Saturday, April 1st. EdCamps are free "unconferences" in which there is no set schedule or speakers. Instead, you show up and identify your areas of interest, and conversations and activities are facilitated around the most commonly identified ones. There is no charge to attend, and NIST is providing transportation and lunch. There are also going to be giveaways courtesy of BrainPOP. 

They want to have this become an annual event - or even more frequent - and also want to open it to as many teachers as possible regardless of where they work since many people don't have access to a set professional development budget. Teachers in government schools, bilingual schools, language institutes and international schools are all welcome.

Only 100 spots are available, and you can learn more or sign up at edcampbkk.com.

Unfortunately, have very few international school options at that price range, particularly if you're aiming to stay below 350,000 for both children. Even if both were in nursery/pre-k, few full K-12 schools are that affordable in Bangkok (though more in other regions), and I cannot honestly recommend any of them. A quality bilingual school or English program would be worth just as much, if not more in some cases.

If your children are older, it will be far more challenging to stay in your price range, and you also need to consider that the fees will increase substantially as they progress. At this point, the most expensive schools in Thailand charge 800,000 to 900,000 at the high school level, and most mid-tier schools between 400,000 to 700,000 per child. (Despite the annual fee increases and saturated market, demand for these schools remains high. A few of the schools do struggle, often due to management, but most experience steady growth.)

As a starting point, you may want to visit the International Schools Association of Thailand website. That will help you narrow down the list by curriculum. The Wikipedia list may also come in useful.

What is your ultimate goal? Do you plan to just be here in Thailand for a few years, or is this something you want to turn into a career? If the former, you don't need to worry too much about finding employment, particularly if you're comfortable with a more relaxed, simple lifestyle. Plenty of 30,000 - 40,000 baht/month positions are available, and you would probably be able to find one shortly after you arrive if you don't already have something lined up. The timing would be about right as well since Thai schools would be gearing up for the next school year. Though many of them will have already finished hiring, plenty struggle to find teachers up until the last minute.

On the other hand, I'd recommend more careful planning if you want to stay here for the long term. With some teaching experience already under your belt in the UK, you have a leg up over many others. What is your degree in? If related to health and fitness, that qualification combined with your experience would make you an ideal candidate for a PE teaching position at a low-tier or possibly mid-tier international school, as they often hire teachers without licenses in their home countries. You could then aim to earn the necessary qualifications to earn a permanent Thai teaching license and begin moving up the chain to better schools.

Assuming you want to be here for the foreseeable future, the second option provides far more opportunity for advancement. Even smaller international schools will often pay substantially more than government schools or language institutes, with some exceptions on both sides. Having teaching experience in one also makes you more marketable to better schools and provides a greater degree of transience, as you can then relocate outside of Thailand and teach in other countries if you want to explore the world a bit more.

Finally, as to the location, it really does depend on your preference. As you just saw, Scott and others are often very happy to help pass on information about potential opportunities, and even small towns often have available positions. Bangkok is undoubtedly the easiest if you want to make sure you can lock in a job, but it also is more expensive if you opt to teach ESL/EFL.

There are certain factors that can be used to loosely classify schools according to quality, but even collectively these will still be largely subjective, just as the university ranking systems differ based on the factors included and weighting taken into consideration. I do not have very much experience with government schools, but in respect to international schools, the following could play a part into a rating of some sort:

• Financial status (for-profit or not-for-profit)
• Accreditation status (solely through ONESQA, ONESQA and at least one international body, or ONESQA and multiple international bodies)
• Affiliates (membership in ISAT and EARCOS for professional networking; SEASAC, BISAC, TISAC and/or ISAA for sports - loosely in order of prestige)
• Diversity (overall composition of student body, and specifically the percentages of Thais, Asian expatriates and Western expatriates)
• Tuition fees (higher fees generally indicate greater investment in school resources, though this must be contextualized by the financial status, particularly for schools owned by families or a small number of individual investors)
• Standardized test scores (ISA, SAT, ACT, AP, IB exams, etc.)
• University acceptances (not only the universities that have accepted students, but also those that they attend, scholarships offered, the nature and quality of the counseling program, etc.)
• Teacher diversity and qualifications (composition of faculty, average experience, prior employment and qualifications - including both degrees and licensure)
• Professional development (strong PD program in place for faculty, participation in PD events in Thailand and abroad, contributions to the field of education)
• Community engagement (connections with other notable organizations, service, philanthropy, etc.)
• Transparency (willingness to publish and/or share accreditation reports, key school information, etc.)

Gathering all of this information for each school is obviously a challenge, and publishing it would be even more difficult. Most international schools do seek out membership in ISAT, which is highly resistant to ranking schools, as their interest lies in advancing international education as a whole (with good reason).

However, taking these factors into account, I would argue that very few schools in Thailand would achieve near-perfect ratings, at least 10 to 15 would be above average, and a very large number would be average or subpar.

@soley13: As several others have (accurately) pointed out, English language teaching will not provide many opportunities for advancement in Thailand, nor will it be very useful in any future career. Given your background, I'd highly recommend going a different route: pursue a qualification in school counseling. Given your background, you could likely earn a post-graduate diploma in a year (perhaps less time if there is any possibility of waiving courses, though I don't know if that's common practice in the UK). Then begin applying as a school counselor to international schools, emphasizing any experience you have in teaching and/or working with students of any age.

Though you may not land a very high-paying position initially, this will open the door to many more opportunities in the future. Most of the top international schools here employ teams of at least 6 counselors, as do others around Southeast Asia. If your heart is set on Thailand, work your way up to one of those positions, at which point you'd be earning substantially more than you ever would teaching English.

Play to your strengths. Don't aim for something else entirely simply because you want a change.

@troubletribbles: Landing a position at an IB school is not necessarily dependent on the fact that it is IB, but rather its overall position in the market. If you look on the IB website, you'll see the list of 21 schools that currently offer at least one of the IB programmes. Of these, at least four or five tend to hire more teachers from overseas than from in Thailand. They do not have policies in place for this, but rather do so simply because they are more selective in the individuals that they hire, and often seek to recruit teachers who have held positions at other top schools around the world.

@Scott is correct in pointing out that the packages tend to be less attractive for those hired here. A housing allowance is still often provided at the top schools, but it is less than what an overseas hire would receive. They also would not receive the shipping allowances and similar benefits. 

If you're aiming to be hired at one of the IB schools, you have two primary options: targeting one of the smaller IB schools (particularly ones that offer only the DP if you're lucky enough to have that be your area of specialization) or looking for a position at an IB school abroad with the intention of eventually working your way back here. Neither option is necessarily better. It all depends on how much work you're willing to put in, your skill as a teacher and making the right connections with other educators at decent schools.

@thequietman: The IB offers workshops that provide progressive training (at three levels) for each programme and subject area. These are hosted worldwide and can be searched on the professional development section of the IB website. Most IB schools look for candidates with at least category 1 training in their subject area, but are in some cases willing to hire promising teachers and send them for the relevant training.