Colonel_Mustard

Either the Islander bar in Rawai or the Cheers bar in Rawai. I can't remember which was first but I used to frequent both quite regularly but I believe both are long gone now.

If you've got kids who are not yet adults and they are on Facebook.

You need to be on Facebook.

I thought they had to be 18. I've always used it as my excuse for not letting them have an account anyway.

I tried it for a while but just couldn't get into it. I found it all a bit sad to be honest. It made connecting with long lost friends quite easy so it was useful for that purpose, but seeing their status updates and the way they seemed to live their lives through it made their lives seem rather pathetic and empty.

Champix. It's very easy but can have side effects for some people. I had no problems but a couple friends did (it still helped them quit though).

I went from 60 a day to having absolutely no desire to smoke in a week.

I'm rather shocked at some of the replies.

My kids are being educated in Thailand as that is where I moved for for my own reasons. Some people take their kids' education far too seriously IMHO.

If they want to be brain surgeons etc then the UK would be better but they can still do that here. There are good enough unis here in Thailand. A foreign MA is advisable.

My kids speak Chinese, Thai and English. They go to a private Catholic school, which is 35,000 a year or so. They don't do the English Program as that is a complete waste of money for luuk kreung kids and many of the foreign teachers are not qualified.

No need for an International School unless you plan to go back to the UK.

There's a lot more to bringing up kids than school education. We have a much better standard of living here than we would in the UK, unless I won the lottery. I see a hell of a lot more of my kids than my friends in the UK do theirs.

I certainly am not going to sacrifice my happiness for the gamble that my kids will want to go to university in the UK. I think they will do much better here being trilingual with a foreign MA if they choose that route. My eldest wants to be an air-hostess and that's fine with me. If she leaves school at 15 and sells somtam, that's fine with me too, if she's happy.

I believe a Thai school with a good second language program would most likely be satisfactory for most people if they intend for their kids to stay in Thailand but I suspect the best they could hope for is 2nd - 3rd tier jobs.

An international school or perhaps better still an education gained in the UK/USA/similar, with sufficient Thai provided outside school, would probably give your kids access to employment around the globe and also to 1st-2nd tier employment within Thailand.

I think as a parent you want to provide your kids with the best education you can afford.

@ Bill

Price was for the van and driver and wasn't dependent on the number of passengers.

I booked it through thailandtrainticket.com

Booked for a friend through ebookers and got return flights for half those prices. It was with India Air with a 2 hour stop in Delhi. so not a direct flight as you wished. Cheapest direct I could find was BA at around 36,000 baht.

Pretty Sure one of the Bus companies can accomadate your needs , on one of the two deck buses , the lower deck.

Then a taxi from the station in BKK to your end destination ?

Thanks, but I doubt the bus nor train would be very wheelchair friendly.

Van would be the way to go if I could find a sane driver.

I know some sane van drivers but they're not that cheap (nor are the insane ones for that matter!).

Thanks Colonel, not sure when, or even if, I will be going, at this stage.

As Bill was asking about this, I thought I would jump on the bandwagon also to see what is available and the costs.

I would be up and back over two days.

I'll contact you when I'm going if that's alright?

No problem. If you ever need one, give me a shout and I'll put you in touch with them.

Flying is much quicker and probably cheaper though, so unless you have a fear of flying (as I do) going by plane is probably a better bet. My favourite is van to Surat and then sleeper overnight to BKK. Slow trains but they serve you beer and acceptable food and it's quite a relaxing journey.

Pretty Sure one of the Bus companies can accomadate your needs , on one of the two deck buses , the lower deck.

Then a taxi from the station in BKK to your end destination ?

Thanks, but I doubt the bus nor train would be very wheelchair friendly.

Van would be the way to go if I could find a sane driver.

I know some sane van drivers but they're not that cheap (nor are the insane ones for that matter!).

Never done Phuket to BKK but have done Phuket to Surat Thani for 2500 (private van) and then we take a train from Surat in the 2-bed sleeper compartments.

Nobody buys 30 year leases on houses in Phuket. Don't be naive. I know a guy who has three places in Patong and he owns them the company route since 1999-2000.

A 30 year lease is like prepaying a hotel room. Only for people who think things like time shares are worth something.

Ahhh, the company loop hole. Tell me, what would your friend do if they shut that loop hole down? How worthless would his properties become, overnight?

What about all the condo's, sitting on Thai owned land. What will become of these after 30 years? Will condo owners have to pay again to lease the land for another 30 years?

So many other risks and unknowns in this 3rd World Country. Some land titles are not even genuine. The document was created after a corrupt payment was made to an official. It's a joke. Why bother buying?

Renting offers flexibility, security, affordability, choice and you keep you capital "liquid." It's a no brainer.

Each to their own I say.

I have a house and land in my wife's name. It allows me to be able to live in the place I want for as long as I choose and to be able to have everything the way I like it and not have to move at the whim of an owner. It works for me but I do understand the attraction on renting and if I didn't have kids, I probably would have gone that route.

Btw the company route doesn't have to be a loop hole and I believe it to be perfectly legal if the land is owned by a company that is genuinely trading rather than a company set up purely to hold the land. Problem is then what if the company starts to have financial problems? I assume it could be seized as an asset of that company. You'd need to get advice of a reliable lawyer first.

"I have a house and land in my wife's name." - you lost me after that.

I'm very happy with my choices as I married a woman I trust completely. Married for 12 years and 3 kids and our house has served us well and if things did go wrong at any time, I could walk away from it with no regrets. However, I can imagine why people in certain kind of relationships would be worried by the prospect.

Nobody buys 30 year leases on houses in Phuket. Don't be naive. I know a guy who has three places in Patong and he owns them the company route since 1999-2000.

A 30 year lease is like prepaying a hotel room. Only for people who think things like time shares are worth something.

Ahhh, the company loop hole. Tell me, what would your friend do if they shut that loop hole down? How worthless would his properties become, overnight?

What about all the condo's, sitting on Thai owned land. What will become of these after 30 years? Will condo owners have to pay again to lease the land for another 30 years?

So many other risks and unknowns in this 3rd World Country. Some land titles are not even genuine. The document was created after a corrupt payment was made to an official. It's a joke. Why bother buying?

Renting offers flexibility, security, affordability, choice and you keep you capital "liquid." It's a no brainer.

Each to their own I say.

I have a house and land in my wife's name. It allows me to be able to live in the place I want for as long as I choose and to be able to have everything the way I like it and not have to move at the whim of an owner. It works for me but I do understand the attraction on renting and if I didn't have kids, I probably would have gone that route.

Btw the company route doesn't have to be a loop hole and I believe it to be perfectly legal if the land is owned by a company that is genuinely trading rather than a company set up purely to hold the land. Problem is then what if the company starts to have financial problems? I assume it could be seized as an asset of that company. You'd need to get advice of a reliable lawyer first.

@NKM

I meant there are plenty of Russians and Asians in the bars and restaurants on the N W Coast (quite a few westerners too).

The Russians and Asians buy a lot of jewellery in comparison to their window shopping western counterparts apparently. Both also spend on designer labels from personal observation.

As far as I know the day trips are booked locally (well I know quite a number are).

I buy food at Tesco's or 7-11s when in BKK at times and I'm sure plenty of western and Russian tourists do too.

I would expect Phuket's loss of the western market to be roughly in line with that of Thailand in general (as indicated from the Finnish survey posted earlier).

At the end of the day we're both seeing different things and getting different impressions which would perhaps suggest the north of the island is maybe attracting wealthier Russian/Asian clientele.

@ Colonel_Mustard

I would perfer you supply examples, or give of your observations, to back up your statements, rather than attack where I chose to live on the island.

The Thai's will not release reliable data on economic conditions here - you know that. You have to go by other indicators, some of which, I have already posted.

I have seen Russians buying food and alcohol in Big C - Junceylon and in 7/11's and Family Marts.. Is this the food and beverage you speak about? If not, please state what restaurants you have seen the Russians eating in, regularly. Then do the same with the Chinese, and Indians.

I have confirmed what another member has observered, the Banzaan Night BBQ is full of Asians eating street food. A typical bowl of something there is 40 baht.

So, I ask again, what are the Chinese, Russians and Indians spending money on whilist on Phuket? If you can't back up your statement, maybe another member can.

I agree they are here, and in numbers, but they are spending nowhere near what the western tourists used to spend here and that has to be effecting the amount of baht "floating around" in the local Phuket economy. The flow on effect of that will felt in sectors like employment etc etc.

Restaurants and bars in the Laguna and Surin areas. They're pretty much the only places I visit these days for meals out but I'm sure other areas are doing fine too. There was a good post by PhuketRichard on Bill's leaving Phuket thread that went into more detail on where the Russians and Asians are spending(sorry not sure how to quote from other threads)

Also from personal observation and chatting to friends I would say there are more Asians that I remember on the golf courses, increasing numbers of tour vans at the bigger jewellery outlets, day trip tours doing very good business, the outlet mall on the bypass has coaches of Asians keeping it in business, designer wear from Central etc. I also see Russians buying food and alcohol at Big C and 7-11 and guess what? I also saw/see westerners there too.

I've heard stories of this being the quietest low season every year I've been here. I still hear that from some people now but those tend to be businesses targeted at a struggling western market. I have no doubt that some businesses are folding/struggling but I don't believe that it as much to do with Phuket itself but that it is general for Thailand.

I didn't attack where you live or even comment on it. I commented on it maybe being the type of places you hang out at which I think was clearly a intended as humour. Sorry you didn't take it that way.

@NKM

"Firstly, I would hardly say a business owners and staff telling me they are running at a loss is an "impression."

What I meant is that it is an impression of the overall picture, not the overall picture itself.

Interesting to read of what you feel to be the positive aspects of life here. Thank you.

You may have to clarify for me.

My observations are first hand. My conversations with business owners are first hand.

When someone says to me, "There's nobody around. We're putting the place up for sale." I don't think these are "impressions" of struggling businesses, they are first hand accounts of businesses slipping into the red, thus, making them unsustainable.

Of course, not every businesses is struggling, but many are. Is this the "overall picture" or "the picture itself?"

What "picture" would you paint of Phuket to the owners of these businesses?

The overall picture is exactly what we don't seem to have and that is any data on how much tourist $ are being spent these days in comparison to before.

You can find some struggling businesses, there are also businesses that are doing better now than before.

I don't personally think that the Russian and Asian visitors are as cheap as you believe (and again that's only my view from personal experience). I think they just spend their money on things other than those that Westerner's typically spent on). It would be nice to get some real independent data of what the overall picture is. We know tourism numbers are increasing but I don't recall seeing anything about how much they are spending. Hopefully at some time in the near future, such information may become available.

Like I have mentioned, the nice, air conditioned reastaurant selling western meals at around 600, 700, 800 baht, or more, with some alcohol, are struggling.

The 40 baht soup street vendor is doing great business.

So, yes, I agree, some businesses are struggling, whilst others are doing well.

However, the 800 baht restaurant turnover has been replaced by the 40 baht turnover - that's 760 baht less going into the local Phuket economy, and that's only one meal, for one tourist.

Please give examples on what you see the Chinese, Russians and Indans spending their money on.

I am not saying the local Phuket economy is currently n recession - I am saying it's heading into recession, quite quickly.

And I am saying I disagree. I think it is doing ok given the global economic problems and it will continue to do ok overall.

Russians spend plenty on shopping, especially in the department stores, jewellery and food and beverage. Maybe the Russians that head down your way are on a tight budget but there are plenty that aren't. Maybe it's the kind of places you hang out that attract that kind of tourist

Anyway I doubt we're going to agree and until some concrete data is produced saying how many tourist $ are being spent, then we're just going to keep on going in circles.

It probably doesn't deserve to but I think Phuket will come out of it just fine.

"Come out" of what? I thought everything was fine here.

Come out of the global economic mess. I never said everything was fine here. The place has many problems (as do most other places in Thailand and elsewhere).

What I said was I don't think it is doing anywhere nearly as badly as you think from tourism and I don't see any local economic recession. I suspect it is doing ok and as the western economies improve, so will the tourism numbers.

One thing that annoys me about living in Thailand is that living in Phuket is so much different to living in Thailand.

That's the best thing about it

Why then, are all the western tourists and expats moving out of Phuket, to go to Thailand?

All? Western tourists are not coming to Thailand as a whole in the same numbers. Some figures were posted on another thread somewhere that showed that total number of visitors to Thailand from Finland (I think) was down quite sharply and Phuket very marginally less so. I suspect that is the case from many Western countries for economic reasons.

A few expats that can no longer afford to live in Phuket are leaving as are a few that are looking for something a bit different. Plenty are staying (whether they want to or not!) and there will always be a few new ones coming in to replace those departing.

Phuket and Bangkok are in my book relatively ok places to live and the only 2 places I would consider living in Thailand at this time. There are many other places I would much rather live but none of them are in Thailand and for the next 18 months at least I am committed to being here.

It probably doesn't deserve to but I think Phuket will come out of it just fine.

One thing that annoys me about living in Thailand is that living in Phuket is so much different to living in Thailand.

That's the best thing about it

I think a school (non-intenational) in Thailand will severely hamper a child's future options and I suspect the vast majority would be limited to careers in Thailand.

If you want them to have more choices, then educate them in a decent school outside Thailand or an international school.

Good luck Bill.

I think the change for Phuket is just natural way how the tourists protect them selves from the rip offs.

When the transportation prices hike up, people use more package tours where the transportation is included. This saves the tourists the hassle of trying to negotiate prices with the local transportation mafias. Cheap and easy.

Same goes with the restaurants. If the prices are 10 or more times higher in a simple touristic restaurant, which offers table clothes, then the tourists might think why not to try to eat where the locals are eating.

The magic of Phuket has is not the same as it was before. I don't know the global figures, but just a few days ago, the statistics of Finnish charter tours were released.

Thailand was 33% down in the year to year comparition (January - May). Meanwhile Turkey gained 40 % more visitors. This is of course data of only one small nation, but it might give an indication of the trend.

Spain 140 287 (+ 10 %)

Turkey 45 457 (+ 40 %)

Thailand 30 524 (- 33 %)

- Phuket 25 000 (- 32%)

Greece 31 877 (- 14 %)

Egypt 17 968 (- 14 %)

Portugal 12 006 (- 15 %)

People vote with their wallets. The yearly vacation for families costs large part of the yearly disposable income so it's understandable that people wish to use it wisely.

The data from Finland seems to indicate that Thailand as a whole is down and if anything Phuket is faring marginally better (Phuket down 32% compared to a drop of 33% in Thailand as a whole).

Not really surprising again given the fact that the European economies are struggling and the other places in this survey mentioned are all considerably nearer and therefore presumably more affordable.

To be of help to the OP, who are these Russian agents? Any links or phone numbers?

I know the Phuket News has a Russian version of its newspaper which might be worth a try but haven't heard of any Russian real estate agents.

http://www.rushome-group.com/

http://www.rt-pro.ru/eng/

Thanks. That might come in handy for the future if NKM is right

50:50 here but on the whole I prefer Western and Indian food to Thai.

To be of help to the OP, who are these Russian agents? Any links or phone numbers?

I know the Phuket News has a Russian version of its newspaper which might be worth a try but haven't heard of any Russian real estate agents.

http://www.rushome-group.com/

Cheers. Site still seems to under construction at the moment and not fully functional.

To be of help to the OP, who are these Russian agents? Any links or phone numbers?

I know the Phuket News has a Russian version of its newspaper which might be worth a try but haven't heard of any Russian real estate agents.