Colonel_Mustard

Price it realistically and you have a chance but as mentioned elsewhere the market is really very good at present due to the relatively strong baht and weak economies in the countries of traditional buyers.

As Hans said, list it with as many agents as you can and try and keep the property in good order for any viewers.

I know one or two people with their houses on the market and present and they have had quite a few come round and have a look but no takers but their villas in my opinion are a bit over priced.

@NKM

"Firstly, I would hardly say a business owners and staff telling me they are running at a loss is an "impression."

What I meant is that it is an impression of the overall picture, not the overall picture itself.

Interesting to read of what you feel to be the positive aspects of life here. Thank you.

You may have to clarify for me.

My observations are first hand. My conversations with business owners are first hand.

When someone says to me, "There's nobody around. We're putting the place up for sale." I don't think these are "impressions" of struggling businesses, they are first hand accounts of businesses slipping into the red, thus, making them unsustainable.

Of course, not every businesses is struggling, but many are. Is this the "overall picture" or "the picture itself?"

What "picture" would you paint of Phuket to the owners of these businesses?

The overall picture is exactly what we don't seem to have and that is any data on how much tourist $ are being spent these days in comparison to before.

You can find some struggling businesses, there are also businesses that are doing better now than before.

I don't personally think that the Russian and Asian visitors are as cheap as you believe (and again that's only my view from personal experience). I think they just spend their money on things other than those that Westerner's typically spent on). It would be nice to get some real independent data of what the overall picture is. We know tourism numbers are increasing but I don't recall seeing anything about how much they are spending. Hopefully at some time in the near future, such information may become available.

You know, as well as I do, any figures released by the Government agencies here can not be relied upon.

Take a look around, speak to people, notice all the 'For Sale" signs etc etc. You will soon have the "picture" of what is happening here.

I do speak to people and some seem to be doing very well while others complain of struggling. Of course I see for sale signs just as I have always done. Do I see more now? Yes, but at the rate they keep on building it's hardly a surprise.

I also see new shopping facilities opening, new buildings, more new cars on the road etc, hardly the image of the local recession.

I have no doubt that many businesses are being hurt by the lack of traditional Western tourists and I sincerely hope that things will pick up for them. I suspect though that the reason for the absence of so many Westerners is more to do with the economic situation in their countries, rather than that Phuket has priced them out.

Costs are hard to nail down as it depends so much on your personal circumstances.

My parents are here on a retirement visa and I would say they just about get by on 50,000 a month too. However, I would need over 5 times that with international school fees and the like.

Most expats seem to live in the south of the island but I much prefer the north. It has pretty much everything I need and is so much more pleasant than central and southern Phuket IMO. Having said that, I don't think I have been south of Central in over 5 years but if I were a younger, single guy, I'd probably be quite happy in somewhere like Rawai or Kata.

Sometimes I read posts on here and I just don't recognise the Phuket they are describing. I guess that's one of the advantages of Phuket, there are many different kind of lifestyles that can be enjoyed here and I think most people can find something that suits their taste (though maybe not their budget).

@NKM

"Firstly, I would hardly say a business owners and staff telling me they are running at a loss is an "impression."

What I meant is that it is an impression of the overall picture, not the overall picture itself.

Interesting to read of what you feel to be the positive aspects of life here. Thank you.

You may have to clarify for me.

My observations are first hand. My conversations with business owners are first hand.

When someone says to me, "There's nobody around. We're putting the place up for sale." I don't think these are "impressions" of struggling businesses, they are first hand accounts of businesses slipping into the red, thus, making them unsustainable.

Of course, not every businesses is struggling, but many are. Is this the "overall picture" or "the picture itself?"

What "picture" would you paint of Phuket to the owners of these businesses?

The overall picture is exactly what we don't seem to have and that is any data on how much tourist $ are being spent these days in comparison to before.

You can find some struggling businesses, there are also businesses that are doing better now than before.

I don't personally think that the Russian and Asian visitors are as cheap as you believe (and again that's only my view from personal experience). I think they just spend their money on things other than those that Westerner's typically spent on). It would be nice to get some real independent data of what the overall picture is. We know tourism numbers are increasing but I don't recall seeing anything about how much they are spending. Hopefully at some time in the near future, such information may become available.

I have yet to find an effective putting teacher here. I would love to find one though.

Give me a shout we can have a session together and take it from there.

Not happy then dont pay.

Cant be fairer than that.

Where are you based? I'm in Phuket but may be in BKK for a few days in the next month or so.

@NKM

"Firstly, I would hardly say a business owners and staff telling me they are running at a loss is an "impression."

What I meant is that it is an impression of the overall picture, not the overall picture itself.

Interesting to read of what you feel to be the positive aspects of life here. Thank you.

CTH seems quite a bit cheaper but except for the football, they seem to have quite an inferior line up of channels to True.

I'll most likely end up with both and use True for family viewing and CTH for the football.

@Mudcrab

Yes, who'd want that kind of choice when the glories of Isaan are calling.

Now you've gone and reminded me that I have the joy of 4 weeks in Khorat coming up shortly That would be enough to even have NKM pining for Phuket!

LOL

Colonel, I'm sure you will come back with fond memories of Khorat tuk-tuks.

Sadly I have been there before and know only too well what awaits me

@ Colonel_Mustard

Once again, you hear this argument a lot. "The tourism numbers are up, so everything on Phuket must be alright."

The tourists numbers MAY be up, but the tourist dollars are down, way down.

If this trend continues, I think there will be further negative impact on Phuket, due to a struggling local economy. An example may be, rising rents, from Thai landlords, to cover their vacant properties. That rent rise is passed onto the consumer, so food and beverage prices increase. Such increases effect ALL of us.

Can you point me to where you got the info on tourist dollars being down? I'm also not convinced by this struggling local economy either judging from the number of new cars on the road each month.

The info comes from my observations of bars, cafes, restaurants, shops etc. There are no customers inside. Except for Burger King.

The info comes from me speaking to farang business owners who tell me takings are down, and they are selling up, and if they can not sell, they will not renew their lease.

The info comes from seeing many shops closed. There are even "boarded up" vacant shops in Jungceylon, which traditionally would have had one of the highest pedestrian traffic flow through on the island.

The info comes from me speaking with some Thai cleaning staff and receptionists about their occupancy rates. Of the ones I have spoken to, they are running on 10% to 20% occupancy rates. The highest was 20%. I doubt those occupacy rates cover running costs.

The info comes from observing Chinese and Russian tourists in Big C buying food and alcohol.

The info comes from viewing real estate websites and seeing thousands of properties for sale here.

On a personal level, and a smaller scale, the info comes from expat friends I know that have left Phuket, and tourist friends who do not come back here anymore. They have taken their baht with them. Expats that are unknown to me, such as Big Bill and Jimi0007, are also leaving, with their wives, and taking their baht with them.

These are just off the top of my head, I'm sure other members could come up with other indicators.

In relation to the new cars on the roads here, that's because of the tax rebate offered recently by the Thai Government. Many farang, through their girlfriend/wife, and local wealthy Thai's, either bought their first car, or upgraded.

So basically you don't have any data, just impressions.

Of course things probably aren't as rosy as they were 5 years ago as the world seems in a bit of an economic slump at present as I'm sure you have noticed. However, despite that, I get the feeling that Phuket (and Thailand in general) is doing quite ok for tourism at present.

Expats come and go as do small businesses here. Those I know in the hotel trade (a very limited number) tell me they have had a good year so far and the golf courses I frequent seem busier than at this time in previous years as does Central but that's just personal observation of course and means nothing. It would be interesting if they ever release data on how many tourist $ are being spent in Phuket in comparison to years gone by. I think you might be surprised. I certainly see no signs of a struggling local economy.

Anyway, we're going round in circles with this and I very much doubt we're going to agree on this or much else related to Phuket

If/when I start to feel like you seem to do about the place, I'm sure I'll start looking for somewhere else to call home. Just out of genuine interest what keeps you here?

@Mudcrab

Yes, who'd want that kind of choice when the glories of Isaan are calling.

Now you've gone and reminded me that I have the joy of 4 weeks in Khorat coming up shortly That would be enough to even have NKM pining for Phuket!

@ mudcrab

You're a bit out of date old chap. Not too many sex tourists these days apparently, just Russians and Chinese who tend to bring their partners with them.

I think most of the sex tourists got married and moved up to Isaan with their partners

not sure about being out of date, but it has been a year since I have been to Phuket. But I stand by my cheap booze and pussy statement not withstanding the Russian/Chinese tourist demographic. There will still be bucketloads of western men in Phuket to sustain the industry....the numbers may not be so visual but they will still be there.

You're probably right. I never go to Patong, or even south of Surin, so to be honest I am most likely far more out of date than you. I only responded to have a sly dig at an Isaan interloper

@ Colonel_Mustard

Once again, you hear this argument a lot. "The tourism numbers are up, so everything on Phuket must be alright."

The tourists numbers MAY be up, but the tourist dollars are down, way down.

If this trend continues, I think there will be further negative impact on Phuket, due to a struggling local economy. An example may be, rising rents, from Thai landlords, to cover their vacant properties. That rent rise is passed onto the consumer, so food and beverage prices increase. Such increases effect ALL of us.

Can you point me to where you got the info on tourist dollars being down? I'm also not convinced by this struggling local economy either judging from the number of new cars on the road each month.

@ mudcrab

You're a bit out of date old chap. Not too many sex tourists these days apparently, just Russians and Chinese who tend to bring their partners with them.

I think most of the sex tourists got married and moved up to Isaan with their partners

I think many of us came to Phuket, thinking it would be a nice place to call home. After years of living realizing that Phuket can not ever be a home, just a place to be an visitor. That sucks.

As for home I mean a place where a person can really be part of the society, not just spend time there as an outsider.

The next step is not to care what will happen to this island. I went through that phase few years ago after finally figuring out that I can not really do anything to improve the situation. The change have to come from the local people who live here... and it never comes. So why should we even try to change things?

I still relapse every now and then thinking that I could improve things here. It still does not happen.

After all, just live a life here while it's still good and when it's not, hit the road and move somewhere else.

I live in area which is still good compared to the touristic beaches, way better actually. People here are generally good, but there is more an more indications of creed which is radiating from south west of the island.

The way I now see Phuket is, it's a great place to come for a holiday for 2 weeks, if you are cashed up, but is becoming a nightmare of a place to live.

No transport, traffic, pollution (noise, air, water and rubbish) poor roads, rising crime (petty and violent) drug abuse, failing infastructure, too much construction, corrupt police and officials, unfriendly locals, dodgy expats, black outs, flooding and an ever increasing cost of living.

As an expat, you learn to "work around" most of the BS here, but it's getting harder and it gets tiring.

Considering I'm living in the most expensive place in Thailand, I am constantly assessing whether I am really getting value for my money living here. This place has so many issues that do not exist in other places in Thailand, to the extent they exist here. You would think, the more you pay, the better products/services you receive. Loyalty can only be stretched so far.

So, the question must be asked, why pay top dollar for an inferior product/service, and for how long do they think expats and tourists will continue do so?

The European tourists have pretty much detoured Phuket in recent times. That leaves the expats, and they are leaving as well.

Unfortunately if you want to live in a tourist centre you have to live with all that entails, good and bad. I imagine living in Las Vegas wouldn't be all that glamorous compared to what you see of the good times in the casinos on TV from time to time. The other unfortunate thing is that we (that is the tourist who becomes an expat) are directly responsible for the corruption. It is the cash that we bring (I say we, expat and present day tourists, in the broadest sense) that is the root cause of the greed etc that leads to corruption. Phuket wasn't the first and certainly will not be the last. Where there is money, corruption in some form follows.

I accept what you say.

Is corruption that out of control on Phuket that it's effecting the success of the tourism industry?

Corruption doesn't seem to have that much effect on the success of the tourism industry so far as corruption throughout Thailand (and certainly not just in Phuket) is rampant and has been for many years, yet tourism numbers keep increasing.

@NKM

Of course there is some 'it doesn't affect me, so I don't care' which is perfectly normal. I'm not too bothered about tuk tuks as I don't use them, just as I'm sure tourists don't care about schooling options available here.

Yes, I believe that on the whole we are getting a reasonably good product in Phuket, though it's far from perfect. Whether or not it's good value depends on what you're comparing it too. Family and friends that have visited it here on holiday found it good value but then they're probably comparing it to European prices. A visitor from Isaan would probably be quite shocked at some of the prices and perceive it as poor value.

@NKM

Sorry I didn't realize that 'all the BS' just referred to public transport options, which I am happy to admit are cheaper in Bangkok and Pattaya.

I have my own car and so these issues don't personally affect me at all but I do feel sympathy for those expats that don't have their own transport.

@ Colonel_Mustard

Can you name some changes that have had a "positive impact" on your lifestyle here?

In relation to driving/riding whilst intoxicated - how many expats do you know that do this? I know quite a few. It's not just the tourists. So, affordable, or not, people are not using the tuk-tuks, and the reason I can only put it down to is price, and a bad reputation.

Much wider variety of schooling, healthcare, shopping, sporting and leisure facilities. More food and drink choices. More locations directly available from Phuket airport. Better roads. Yes despite your complaints about the roads, they are significantly better than 12 years ago. When I arrived the road through Thalang to the airport was still a compacted dirt road, no concrete or tarmac. These things have combined to make life here much better overall than it would have been if Phuket had remained unchanged from when I first arrived.

Some things can be viewed both positively and negatively. For example, more people are able to own a car now than before. That is a positive for them but leads to more traffic which is probably a negative for you and me.

Some things have got worse for sure but they have little direct impact on my life and overall Phuket, for me at least, remains the best place to live in Thailand. Of course that may change in the future but I would hope that when I have had enough of the place, that I will just decide to leave, rather than bemoaning that it didn't remain the same just to suit me.

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

But thats exactly my point.. I left Phuket, and all those phuket troubles, which I thought at the time were thai troubles but are not.. Stopped.

I am happier now than I have been in years, I have a much nicer set of locals, and while I will probably always be views as a bit of an outsider, I dont feel that that comes with much of a negative here. My wife has better friends, the expats I know seem more integrated, more stable, have more normal lives.. Both Thais and westerners socialize together, do community things together, I feel pretty much accepted. After a bunch of years that became important to me.

For everyone that says 'íts the person not the environment' I am here to tell you that in my case.. It WAS the environment, once I changed it those troubles went away.

That's why I call it "Planet Phuket."

All the BS is on Phuket, not all over Thailand.

Now that is BS

Do you really think that the people who have lived here and left for greener pastures because of corruption, traffic, prices, etc are happy where they landed?

But thats exactly my point.. I left Phuket, and all those phuket troubles, which I thought at the time were thai troubles but are not.. Stopped.

I am happier now than I have been in years, I have a much nicer set of locals, and while I will probably always be views as a bit of an outsider, I dont feel that that comes with much of a negative here. My wife has better friends, the expats I know seem more integrated, more stable, have more normal lives.. Both Thais and westerners socialize together, do community things together, I feel pretty much accepted. After a bunch of years that became important to me.

For everyone that says 'íts the person not the environment' I am here to tell you that in my case.. It WAS the environment, once I changed it those troubles went away.

I am pleased that you found somewhere that suits you better.

Phuket has undoubtedly changed and for some people those changes make it a less desirable place to live, whereas some of those same changes make it a better place for other people.

Everyones circumstances are different and this reflects in how they see and feel and talk about this place..what's the problem with that?

Someones 'milk and honey' vision isn't neccessarily the same as his neighbours is it?

Also at times relates directly to just how rose coloured the observer/commenters specs are.

I don't think expats, tourists and locals want "milk and honey." They just want what everywhere else in Thailand has, nothing more, nothing less.

We are all being held to ransom here by the "influential people."

You got it wrong... I never said that expats, tourists and locals want "milk and honey." i was saying that peoples interpretation of their lifestyle/surroundings can vary immensely..in that, say for eg, GOM may interpret his lifestyle/surroundings as being great ie ''milk and honey'' but his neighbour for example may hate his own lifestyle/surroundings.

Nothing at all to do with how you replied.

If you read some of the posts you will see that some people are perfectly happy with their lot here., which i feel is what GOM was saying in #70.....

I understand what you are saying.

Every morning I wake up, in good health, I'm happy for another day on this earth. If you have your health, you have everything. A good life can be viewed as simple as that. Saying that, people may view me as optimistic, although I sure many here see me as pessimistic.

Circumstances do change in life. Sometimes overnight, sometimes, over a longer period of time.

An example may be, today you are "perfectly happy with your lot" on Phuket, tomorrow, you find out they are building a pig farm next door to your house. So, you go from being happy on Phuket, to not so happy, now owning a worthless property, and you will have to move and buy again.

Another example, applicible to all of us here, is, you are riding your motorbike along, doing the right thing, and then you are hit by a drunk tourist, causing serious injury to yourself. Surely, you would have to think the lack of transport on Phuket had a role to play in your accident. If you were to interview the drunk tourist and ask. "Why were you riding drunk?" If they reply, "Because the tuk-tuks are too expensive" - maybe the transport issue on Phuket is now well and truly in your face, as you lay in hospital. Sure, this does not diminish the culpability of the drunk tourist, but the transport issue here has now affected "your lot in life" here, through no fault of your own.

There's been many complaints, recently, of lengthy black outs on Phuket. I haven't had them here in Patong. Should my attitude be, who cares, it doesn't effect me, therefore, I am "happy with my lot" on Phuket, in relation to electric supply, when a short distance away, electric is going down for hours, regularly?

There seems to be a general attitude of, "It doesn't effect me, so I don't care" here on Phuket, despite the motorbike example a gave above, that it could happen to anyone, anytime.

Years ago, many came here with the "TIT" (This Is Thailand) attitude. We all had a laugh at things and simply just put it down to "TIT." Most were "happy with their lot" on Phuket back then. Slowly, we discovered it wasn't TIT, it was "influential people" that have created such negative change on Phuket, and they continue to do so, unabated.

I would suggest, that "negative change" effects us all here, therefore, effecting our "happiness with our lot in life" here, and those negative changes keep happening, in the short term, and the long term here, and will continue to change one's attitude and perspective of Phuket, to the point of tourists will not come here and expats ill move away from.

I think that is a rather poor example to be honest. Tourists CAN afford taxis and tuk tuks here and there are plenty of drunken accidents in places with cheaper transport. I am also sure you could have a pig farm built next to you in other provinces too.

You keep going on about negative change but that's always been perceived to be the case. When I came here 12 years ago, there were people who had been here 10 years already and they complained about how things had changed negatively.

As I have stated previously some of the changes have a slightly negative impact on my life but many of the changes have had a positive impact, so for me Phuket is overall a better place to live than it used to be as it is for many other people too.

Alice in Wonderland was great, the Mad Hater, CheshireCat, brillliant characters.

The point I was making is that True are not the best at movies and no doubt other channels.

I don't find True to be as bad as many make out and a comparison of CTH and True for anything other than football, comes out heavily in True's favour, all of course IMHO.

When I lived on Phuket I tried to compromise in a way by living near the Heroines monument in a Thai subdivision. It was quiet and I had some of the finest neighbors I have ever had. But to get to anywhere from there for shopping, school at Darasamut, trips to Villa, I had to do a lot of driving. The traffic eventually became too stressful for me so I escaped to Krabi a little over a year ago. Here the traffic is very minimal, one can actually relax a little and "cruise". This is a very different lifestyle but so far the peace and quiet has been very therapeutic for me and my family. My trips over to Villa every month or two tend to overwhelmingly support my decision to move. Last month the traffic seemed to have doubled on Phuket. Krabi is not the answer for all of the ills found in Thailand, but for me it was a good move, and that is what I like. To each his own... I can also relate to the needs you have now as we all get a bit older almost every day. Good luck with whatever direction suits YOU.

I quite like Krabi too and if I were retired and without kids, it's a place that I might consider. However, it lacks a lot of facilities that I need right now such as decent schooling, shopping etc.

A lot of people talk about Phuket being worse than it used to be but for my life it's actually got better overall with more facilities and a wider range of options and activities for the kids to do. Having said that I do understand why that those who don't need such things and are just looking for a quiet and cheap life are looking elsewhere.

less tourists coming from bad publicity =cheaper prices, I dont know why everyone is complaining

According to TAT, there are continually more tourists coming.

I have yet to find an effective putting teacher here. I would love to find one though.

Double pricing..Price for Thais and a Very Unfair Price for X Pats that live here....

Not everyone lives in Pattaya or Phuket. Never been falang priced...where I live but then it's worth knowing what things are worth.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

While it's obviously true that not everyone lives in Phuket or Pattaya, this is the Phuket forum and dual pricing exists all over Thailand (unless you have a Thai driver's license which makes it generally a non-issue).