jing jing

My apologies if I belabor the point a bit, but if one Googles for example "gracie challenge," "gracie vale tudo," or "rickson gracie," there are many youtube videos from back in the day of fighting with no rules, no time limits, no stopping until one of the fighters either submits or is incapacitated. Definitely not for the squeamish.

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.

You make some good points, but there is no such thing as a "real world, straight up...fight"

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.

One final point, muay thai training offers great fitness and practical skills for the young'uns....any martial arts with joint locks such as judo jujitsu should be undertaken with care as young kids who are not fully developed can get permanent damage to joints which are tweaked the wrong way....

Also have to agree about the need to exercise great caution and seek the most competent instruction available in the practice of Jiu Jitsu - many of the basic techniques of locks and cranks will cause either excruciating pain or unconsciousness if pressure is not carefully modulated - but with proper instruction kids will quickly learn to stay within the limits.

You make some good points, but there is no such thing as a "real world, straight up...fight"

A sport with a ref, rules, time limits, is totally different from a life or death situation on the street.

One final point, muay thai training offers great fitness and practical skills for the young'uns....any martial arts with joint locks such as judo jujitsu should be undertaken with care as young kids who are not fully developed can get permanent damage to joints which are tweaked the wrong way....

Your points are also well taken. Nowadays, any situation

Just as an aside, I don't believe that there is any single fighting discipline which can prepare you to go up against an opponent skilled in multiple styles. A well timed and properly executed TKD kick to the head may work sometimes, but if not, what then?

In a real world, straight up, no holds barred fight to the finish I would put my money on any guy with a combined background of rigorous Muay Thai training for the physical conditioning, strikes and clinches, and high level BJJ training for the takedown, grappling, and submission skills. That is a hard combination to beat.

Surprising that more hasn't been said about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which I believe is actually a martial art of Japanese origins.

Has anyone heard of the Gracie family? Google is your friend. Their history of "street" fighting dominance goes back to the 1920's when Helio Gracie demonstrated the superiority of his techniques in outmaneuvering and submitting larger, physically superior opponents regardless of their fighting style. To this day, any fighter hoping to succeed in the pro MMA arena must have high level skills in BJJ as part of their repertoire, with Muay Thai training optional but extremely useful.

My two sons, now 8 and 10 - born and raised in Thailand until just a little over a year ago - have both been involved in martial arts since they were 5. They began training with Hansoo Taekwondo, and after 2 years progressed to brown and red belt level with a couple of tournament medals each before we moved to California. Since that time, they've been training in BJJ at the Gracie gym in LA. We returned to Thailand for their summer break this year, and for two months they trained with local Thai kids at a well established neighborhood Muay Thai gym.

I regard my boys' martial arts training as a solid foundation for a lifetime of physical fitness, discipline, confidence, and self esteem. When it comes to schoolyard bullies, they have the skills to severely punish anyone foolish enough to try, and the discipline to use them only in self defense. One small demonstration is enough to discourage any future attempts.

To summarize, I would say that any martial arts training with a competent instructor/coach ought to be beneficial for all boys and girls 5 and up. No reasonable person sees a couple years of Taekwondo, or similar training for kids, as sufficient preparation to go up against a bigger, stronger, more skilled opponent in a streetfight, nor should it be done for that purpose. For helping kids develop discipline, physical fitness, social skills, confidence, self esteem - any proper type of MA training is a good idea, without a doubt.

What many of you seem to be missing, forgetting or haven't learned yet, is that different countries and cultures have different standards of morals and ethics.

If you have not or will not accept Thai morals or ethics,

you need to change,

or change your location.

Thailand will not and should not change just to please you.

I don't think that that is true, all human beings have a genetically built in basic sense of morality,it is that which helped us survive the ice age and beyond,there are of course social nuances which are different but we all have the same feeling for right and wrong. What is different about Thai morals or ethics that is different from our own ? name me one.

Only one? here are five big ones.

Family:

Thais believe it is their responsibility to take care of their parents and the elderly.

In the west, they are usually locked away in a "rest home" where they are not a bother.

Marriage:

If your wife has lost interest and you can afford it, in Thailand it is acceptable to take on second wife or a "mia noi".

In the west your options are abstinence or divorce.

Prostitution:

Although not actually legal, prostitution is accepted in Thailand and nice girls are available for those who have the need.

In the west the girls are sleazy criminals probably strung out on drugs.

Courtesy:

In Thailand it is considered a very bad thing to lose your temper, get upset or insult someone.

In the west these are all ways of life that people thrive on.

Corruption:

In Thailand it is accepted, expected, and dealt with openly.

In the west it is rampant but denied and covered up.

There are many more, but why waste time telling you what you should already know.

I love most of the differences in Thailand from where I come from.

Maybe you disagree with Thai morals on these issues, but this is Thailand.

You need to respect the morals and culture or find a place that better matches your needs.

Bravo.

Possiby the best, most succinct summary of the more salient cultural differences most westerners spending time in the Kingdom fail to comprehend, much less appreciate, that I've read recently on TVF.

Morality, "democracy," and "face" - as they are understood in Thailand - are concepts apparently beyond the ability of most westerners to get their head around and be comfortable with.

The cultural gap is a wide one indeed; too wide, an objective observer might suggest, to be successfully bridged by those who are so convinced of the superiority of their own value system.

A man should be aware of his own limitations, and not be ashamed to admit that he is unable, or unwilling, to adapt to a different (not necessarily better or worse) set of cultural mores.

The logical solution seems not to rail against all and sundry things Thai, but rather to return to the more salubrious surroundings and like-minded populace back in one's own homeland... or so one would think.

Apparently the Kingdom has certain attractions whose irresistable charms overwhelm all other perceived deficiencies for some westerners, hellbent on their mission to change paradise, sadly doomed to lives of terminal cognitive dissonance.

Once again, I think that you guys fail to miss the point...

Uhh... thanks for sorting us out.

Whatever...

Bottom line for me is I don't need to search for insignificant sh!t to stress about. Better to focus on the good stuff and enjoy myself.

Just look @ thithi, only 18 and already sick of people and stuffs..

Among less educated people in the States you can still hear Asians referred to as "gooks" -- now that's rude.

FWIW I'd consider "farang" the Thai equivalent of a westerner using the word "asian." No offense meant, none taken (by yours truly anyway).

Obviously if the westerner in question looks especially goofy or is doing something particularly wacky there may be a tiny bit of a piss take going on amongst the khon Thai.

@ thithi: age of consent in Thailand is 15, right, so u must b really young huh?

Why is Thailand known as the world's brothel? Not only for any of the reasons previously mentioned, but because it is simply the best at what it does.

guys, zaza is a woman. not a bloke.

And I'd bet she's a real babe too, which is what's causing the other female office staff to give a bit of the cold shoulder. Zaza, I wouldn't waste another moment wondering why the handsome young bloke is getting the ladies' attention -- you already know what's up.

If it so happened that you worked at a construction site I'm sure you'd have more "help" than you could handle... our boy Donzie would be fetching your coffee and carrying an umbrella to keep the sun off your precious skin.

Maybe it has something to do with so many boys here in Thailand being brought up without their fathers around -- lack of strong male role models, hence effeminate behaviour -- that's a possibility, don't you think?

do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently?

"Fluently" I wouldn't think is necessary as this is very difficult for anyone learning a second language, especially at the age when most foreigners wash-up in Thailand. However, if one is a long-termer or partnered with a Thai, I think one should make a effort to learn to at least speak basic Thai. If for no other reason that it will make one's life much easier.

I know in the USA, immigrants who make no effort to learn English are very much scorned upon. The Thai's may be more easy going but we should still make the effort IMO.

This is true. Americans are seriously annoyed by folks who immigrate and can't be bothered to learn English. I can't imagine living for over a year in any western european country, like Germany, France, Italy, or Spain, without making an effort to learn the language.

I started studying Thai before moving here and took another 90 hours or so of classes in Bankok after my arrival. Far from fluent but functional is where I'd rate myself. My pronunciation is close to spot-on but vocabulary and grammar need improvement. I can read simple things like signs and brochures but the newspaper is still a bit beyond my ability.

To answer the OP, I don't think fluency in Thai should be expected - certainly not in less than 5 years - but learning the basics is very helpful in everyday life if you don't have a translator at your side 24/7, and although I realize having the respect of Thai people doesn't matter at all to many on this forum, speaking at least a decent level of Thai with proper intonation goes a long way if you ever care to stray off the well-trodden tourist tracks.

I was sent here for a work contract originally and ended up getting hired on permanently. I'm no saint but the nightlife here is pretty unappealing to me and sort of dingy. I like Thailand because it offers a much lower cost of living and pretty high value if you earn a western salary. It's still a lot cheaper than many other cities in the developed world and Asia for that matter. I can save quite a bit here just living normally because I use the MRT/BTS so it cuts down on vehicle costs, my rent is about the same as in the U.S. but the place is much bigger, and I don't have to pay for a mortage. I rarely drink and my "excitement" is through weekend flights out to the beach areas or going out to eat.

Except for the part about vehicle costs (it's my one indulgence) wintermute's comments and circumstances mirror mine precisely. The nightlife is dingy and unappealing; it's fun to sit in a bar and watch the freakshow (usually the farang, not the girls), but as for indulging. No thanks. Thailand gives me a chance to save for the future in a way that would be impossible in Sydney, London, NYC etc, without compromising my quality of life.

So you're not here for the girls then eh? Is that what you're trying to tell us? Granted you're able to live here in a style you could never afford in the cities you've listed above, but that's hardly the only reason a chap such as yourself chooses to live in Thailand.

Let's be honest... didn't you recently marry a Thai woman? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, we'll assume she's a very attractive young lady.

Are you over 40? Is she under 30? No offense meant, but given your age and physiognomy would you have a snowball's chance in h3ll of hooking up with a bird like her back home, where men are men and the sheep are scared?

You've got a posh BKK apartment, are relatively flush with cash by local standards, have bought the little lady a new car, but we all understand she's with you strictly for your movie star looks and charming personality.

Sure the nightlife at Nana and soi 7 beergarden are dingy and unappealing, but as most of us are well aware, the extracurricular options for a cashed-up fella in Thailand extend way beyond lower Sukhumvit. What you choose to avail yourself of is up to you, but we all know what's out there if we want it. I daresay there is no country in the world that compares to Thailand in this respect, which is what makes the OP's question a legitimate one.

Me? I'm just here for the pleasantly cool climate, lack of humidity, clean environment, and safe roadways.

I saw a guy playing footie on the beach a few years ago. He was drop dead gorgeous, couldn't keep my eyes off him. Perfect. Then I looked around me and every woman sitting there whether Western or Thai were also staring at him. Even one of my Western, hetero male friends nudged me and commented about this particular man!! Sheer beauty on legs.... so I can see the attraction.

Heheh... yes, all those things that make Thai ladies so attractive when they all come together in one package -- a great mane of jet black hair, dazzling straight white teeth and an easy smile, high cheekbones, flawless skin, slim athletic build, flashing almond shaped eyes, fun loving nature -- some of the local fellas have been equally blessed and I can admire them too, and no, I don't swing that way (not there's anything wrong with it ).

Good advice from the OP, and as others have said, beach boys and bar girls both come with roughly the same caveats. Sure there are relationships that have worked out but far more have ended up in tears, and the smart folks will generally enjoy them for what they are and not form any emotional attachments.

Just wondering... do beach boys' families often have sick buffalo and moms who need emergency surgery and brothers who've had motorbike accidents also?

I came from the Uk, rich and naive, married a bar-girl, got a serious std from her, (hence my 'infected member' status), then she went mad and lost all our money, then I got divorced, then she wanted to mary me again, then I found that I couldn't leave Thailand because I was too poor.... apart from that, just a normal boring life.....

Simon

You don't have to sugarcoat it Simon... tell us what really happened.

I concur that the phrase "up-2-u" is mostly heard by thais who have had or do have a high interaction with foreigners. It does seem to be somewhat a class based comment with the lower classes; less educated, speaking it far more.

I do think it is a "responsibility avoidance" type of phrase in the usage I have heard. As a rule I have found most thais are not big on taking responsibility for their actions, as it leaves no one to blame should the outcome not be positive.

While not being the slightest bit enamored with, enchanted by or particularly endeared to this country, the alleged 'culture' or the diminutive inhabitants; I would imagine in reality; the english phrase "up-2-u" originated most likely from the sex tourist areas in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and from there 'migrated' out to other areas and industries that shared high exposure to foreigners. I have rarely heard it in rural villages, even when speaking english with the inhabitants.

As far as using the phrase to your advantage, in financial situations were someone to say "up-2-u", I'd interpret that as meaning free. In other situations if some replied to a query of mine with "up-2-u", I'd most likely do what I wanted anyway.

I would suggest that it depends on the context; for example, whether the expression is said in English by a "service provider" to a customer regarding proposed payment or activities to be performed, or if the expression is said in thai by a merchant or vendor regarding the intended use of a product or choice between products.

If you live outside the tourist areas and have occasion to converse in Thai with folks going about their day-to-day activities, you will hear the same phrase - "laew tae" - used in perhaps a different manner than the familiar "up to you" which many "service providers" have incorporated into their lexicon for assisting foreigners in the decision-making process.

Hi,

Life has it's ups and downs due to the choices we make in life. In my situation, I have ended up a (part-time) single daddy living in Thailand. I also am a full time student at Payap University International College.

Being a parent with a partner to help you is great if that's your situation. However, if your alone the rules change slightly and you have to take different short-cuts than you would if you had a spouse to help you.

My son just turned 2 and he lives part-time with me and part-time with his grandparents. His grandparents and I are working on him being more full time with me so he can go to a better school. In the future, he will live with me (thats the plan) and only visit the grandparents.

When he is with me, we live alone and don't have anyone to help me raise him.

I just started taking care of him this way and it is not always fun. Sometimes it is difficult finding the right food for him to eat. I feel like I have been spending a lot of money on food he doesn't eat. I want him to eat, but he wants to go play. I decided not to cook to much at home so we eat out alot. While this is easy on me in terms of preparing a meal and cleaning up after, his crying does not make the dining experience pleasant for other diners.

I am not sure exactly how to control him when it comes to his crying fits. I usually just let him cry or give in to what he is wanting.

When I was a child, my parents used the belt alot. I really don't want to go that route. I prefer to take the time to reason with him. But at his age, he doesn't listen often. What do other parents, single or not, do in this situation?

Hi Richard,

Enjoyed reading your post, and I feel your pain, brother -- really I do.

I've got 2 boys, ages 2 1/2 and 1. I'm not a single parent but sometimes my ideas on how things ought to be are very different from their mum's (and her mum's as well for that matter). This can lead to some serious stress that, believe it or not, you may be fortunate not to have to deal with quite as much. I know that may be of little consolation when you're by yourself with your hands full of rebellious little boy but honestly, it sounds like you're dealing with all the same issues that I and many other parents see on a daily basis.

With regard to eating, I've found that my older boy is a fussy eater who will refuse anything but a bottle one day and then eat everything you put in front of him the next. I just try to make sure food is always available -- khao pad gai is usually good for at least a few spoonfulls and keeps well in a to-go box, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or strawberry yoghurt were reliable favorites for awhile but have fallen out of favor recently, fresh fried chicken legs or wings or (the horror!) even KFC sometimes are deemed worthy of consumption, fish of various different flavors have been known to go down the hatch, hot dogs may be of some interest, etc., etc.

Hitting is a controversial subject... I reckon it depends on how far your child wants to push the bad behavior. Before I had children I swore I'd never hit a kid of mine but there have been a few occasions where a smack or two on the rear end was sorely needed, if you'll pardon the pun. It's really only to get his attention and not enough to do more than sting for a couple of seconds. At this point a serious glare usually has the desired effect.

The crying in public part, without question, is no fun at all. My older boy has an eardrum shattering scream he likes to unleash at the most embarrassing possible moments, timed and executed perfectly so that every human being within earshot (at least a one mile radius) gets the message that his parents are totally unable to exercise even the tiniest bit of control over him.

Ah yes... the joys of parenthood.

he proceeded to floor his throttle and slam that busload of Korean tourists full tilt into the back of my car.

A cement truck , fuel tanker or a train are all that will trump a bus in this country - it is no use being " in the right" if you are dead - if it is bigger than you , give way.

As a mate of mine likes to say, 'the big ones eat the little ones.'

Funny part of it was, after the cloud of pulverized glass settled around my car and I emerged slightly dazed and confused, the bus driver jumped out with an empty plastic water heating jug and started swinging it and kicking in my general direction like Bruce Lee on yaabaa. Fortunately he was maybe 20 years my senior and obviously not a former muay thai champion. When my wife started screaming at him he jumped back like somene had tasered him.

You flipped some guy the finger and got beaten up for it. It took you how many years before you learned that lesson?

The guy deserved the finger, he was driving negligently and rudely.

Yes the guy deserved the finger. If only the OP had explained that to the three men as they beat him up...

Here in Phuket you just have sooooo many terrible drivers, and soooo many people that do not abide by the rules of the road that it is almost impossible not to get upset. Really that's why I prefer the motorbike....

Today I was in the truck, I had a Toyota SUV, one of the bigger ones (Fortuner?) riding my rear bumper at 120, trying to get past but we had trucks and slow moving vehicles in the slow lane. The genius then swerves all the way to the left to pass all in the motorcycle lane and almost kills an old guy on his bike with the side car !!! Just amazing.

I never do anything like road rage, but at times I do like to jam up these a**sholes, box em in or brake a bit when they are tailgating.

Beware of guns though...

Here's a story that ought to put the fear of maniacal Thai drivers into even the "bravest" of expats accustomed to Western driving practices... I almost posted a topic right after it happened but chickened out for fear of the ensuing ridicule...

I was stopped at a major 4 lane intersection waiting to turn right with a large tour bus in the left lane next to me. When the light turned green I began my right turn but the bus driver had decided he would make a right turn in front of me from the left lane, and cut me off so sharply I had to swerve and slam on my brakes to avoid being literally crushed.

I've driven all sorts of vehicles in all sorts of places, from flatout on the autobahns and autostradas of the Continent to dragging a knee through the mountain roads of California, from the mountain roads north of Chiang Mai to the side sois of Bangkok, the rough dirt trails of Ko Chang and Ko Tao to the two lane upcountry highways populated by kwai and wua.

I had never in my life seen another driver make such an arrogant, ruthless, blatantly illegal maneuver, with such an intentional disregard for the lives of others. Believe me I've come to expect Thai drivers to regularly pull out in front of oncoming traffic, but this was nothing like that. I was so outraged with the way this bus driver nonchalantly almost killed me that I couldn't help myself... after surviving the initial encounter I caught up and passed the bus, then tapped my brake slightly once in front of him -- not hard enough to cause any real problem, but just to give him the old what for.

What happened next introduced me to the reality of road rage Thai-style: he proceeded to floor his throttle and slam that busload of Korean tourists full tilt into the back of my car.

By the grace of Buddha neither my son, my wife, nor myself were injured that day but the car took a pretty good hit and dealing with insurance and the body shop was not an experience I'd like to repeat.

Moral of the story: never, ever underestimate what some people may do - Thais in particular - in a road rage situation.

Most of the time when I hear the English phrase "Up to you," it is being said by a Thai of lower social status, to a farang.

It is a commonly used phrase in Thai -- laew tae khun -- indicating that the choice is yours. There really isn't any extraction of urine intended.

EVERLAST LYRICS

"What It's Like"

We've all seen the man at the liquor store beggin' for your change

The hair on his face is dirty, dreadlocked and full of mange

He ask the man for what he could spare with shame in his eyes

Get a job you ******' slob's all he replied

[CHORUS]

God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes

'Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues

Then you really might know what it's like [x4]

Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom who said he was in love

He said don't worry about a thing baby doll I'm the man you've been dreamin' of

But three months later he said he won't date her or return her call

And she sweared god dam_n if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls

And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walkin' through the doors

They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner, and they call her a whore

[CHORUS]

God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes

'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose

Then you really might know what it's like [x4]

I've seen a rich man beg

I've seen a good man sin

I've seen a tough man cry

I've seen a loser win

And a sad man grin

I heard an honest man lie

I've seen the good side of bad

And the down side of up

And everything between

I licked the silver spoon

Drank from the golden cup

Smoked the finest green

I stroked the baddest dimes at least a couple of times

Before I broke their heart

You know where it ends

Yo, it usually depends on where you start

I knew this kid named Max

He used to get fat stacks out on the corner with drugs

He liked to hang out late at night

Liked to get **** faced

And keep pace with thugs

Until late one night there was a big gun fight

Max lost his head

He pulled out his chrome .45

Talked some ****

And wound up dead

Now his wife and his kids are caught in the midst of all of his pain

You know it crumbles that way

At least that's what they say when you play the game

[CHORUS]

God forbid you ever had to wake up to hear the news

'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to lose

Then you really might know what it's like [x3]

To have to lose...

True, ignoring the rights and wrongs of having the young girl along, it is a heinous crime and does not bode well for the security of foreigners motoring about the highways and byways of Phuket. Foolish though he may have been, the victim didn't deserve being run off the road and shot. He certainly has my sympathy in that regard.

Walked around the beach at all hours of day and night and never felt the slightest bit threatened. I'm not an intimidating looking individual but have explored seedy areas all over the world and not become a victim of assault. Carry yourself with a bit of confidence, yes, but I don't recommend making much eye contact with male passersby, especially groups of them. Don't smile. Just put on your best Clint Eastwood expression, do a little swagger, and walk on by.

Zero

I'd be willing to double that.

I've got two young boys, one is 2 1/2 and the other is 1 year old. I swore I'd never hit my kids but the older boy is simply too headstrong to discipline in any other way than the occasional smack on the butt to set the boundary and let him know he can't push any further without consequences. Time outs and naughty corners are not an option with him as he'd simply ignore the order and continue his misbehavior until a stronger intervention occurred.

That said, I would not want anyone else laying a hand on my children, as I think it is exclusively the parent's job to mete out that sort of discipline, and absolutely as sparingly as possible. Ask the teacher/caretaker to report to you if the child was exceedingly naughty and deal with the physical discipline yourself if you deem it necessary.

I have seen some children who can easily be dealt with without the need for physical discipline, but it seems certain kids at a certain age just won't respond to any other methods.