Keith5588

Thank you @donx

My long time Thai girlfriend and myself have just started looking to buy a house in Thailand. I intend to have my girlfriend buy the house and land the land freehold. However the title deeds of a house we like are stated as Nor Sor 3 Gor. With this I believe you would have right of possession confirmed by the Land Department but not absolute ownership (Chanote) / freehold. Would this be a problem or nothing to be concerned about? Thanks Keith

@John L. Thanks a lot for the detailed information and the internet site, I have bookmarked it.

@Peterw42 Thanks a lot for explaining again, with your help I think I am starting to understand. Let me please explain why I got things so wrong. My problem was that I was mislead when talking with my French speaking Swiss friend some time ago. Not intentionally as his English was OK but not perfect and I cannot speak French. He bought a property with his Swiss wife for 4 or 5 Million baht, but he never talked about “property” he just said that he paid for a 30 year lease on the land. I think he even said that the land was worth 1 Million but 600,000 was entered to save tax. He was a bit foolish as he did not employ a lawyer and also just signed the contracts at the Land Registry office without reading them, he just trusted the estate agent I think. I now also think that he did not fully understand. He was having a lot of trouble, basically the original Thai land owner sold the land to another Thai person. I now believe that it should be worded property and not land and the freehold to the property (land and house) was sold. I think it was actually planned by the new Thai property owner as he saw that the contract was incorrect, a lower value entered to save tax. He wanted to buy my friends property for a cheap price. After many court visits my friend had to agree on a settlement and he said that he lost about 1 Million baht. My confusion has been because my friend said the land owner entered a lower figure for leasing the land for 30 years thus saving only about 25,000 baht. He first offered to pay the court this 25,000 baht and explained all he was guilty of was not reading the contract but the court did not accept this. I’m just writing this to explain why I have been so confused. Now with your help I realise the above was wrong. Now I think I am starting to understand that because my friend was buying an already built property, a Thai man owned the property (land and house) freehold and my Swiss friend signed a 30 year lease for this property. Phew! Am I starting to understand now? Thanks again for your help.

@Will B Good The sale of my house is not complete, my Title Deed plan needs to be updated, it's been an annoying delay. Concerning CGT, I'm sorry but that is something I also do not know, I have been told that CGT will be very small or maybe nothing as I have owned the house for over 45 years and it has been my only home.

Thanks @SamSpade that makes sense, it helps me gradually understand. I now thing there was some sort of misunderstanding when I spoke with the Swiss expat.

@bubblegum I am 72. The example I used was just that, I stated 40 year old person because if I stated 72 then asked about the situation after 29.9 years I would probably receive comments like I will be long dead. Hope that explains things.

@Will B Good I have to smile. I came to Thailand for a 4 month vacation in 2016 when I met my Thai gf. I returned to the UK and prepared my house to rent out. Had it rented out for 7.5 years while I lived happily in Thailand. Just as you suggest! Recently I went to the UK to sell my house as well as sort other matters. I have no immediate family in the UK, no children and my one brother had a tragic accident. I had to do a lot of work to prepare my house. I am now 72, I can still do it but I didn’t want to. In another 10 years it would be harder. Basically I want to have it sold and live a simple happy life in Thailand and remove the selling of a house problem for me or my gf. Your house sounds very good but I understand that location is important, thanks for the advise. We spent the first 4 years living in Khon Kaen which was OK, but I could not live in one of the remote villages, too isolated for me, but I also do not like a busy tourist place. Maybe you can sell me your house? 😊

Thanks for your comments @KhunLA Sorry I didn’t make it clear, I was just using a fictitious house as an example. I am actually 72 years old and have been living in Thailand for over 8 years with my Thai girlfriend. Similar length of time when you decided to marry. The location I think does not matter much as I was just trying to understand the legal facts, firstly if a farang bought a detached house as an example. I have to agree in that a Thai would buy freehold because they can. We have lived in a condo but the chances of annoying noise I think are much greater compared to a house. I much prefer to live in a house. Good to hear that you have had a good happy long experience with your wife. Me too, I think many do have good happy relationships.

Thanks @SamSpade actually I plan to do as you suggest, have my gf buy the property freehold + have a Usufruct contract. From what I have read the Usufruct contract is not for a period of time but it lasts until I die, then it dies with me. I prefer an older house, not a new build, just my preference. Even though, if I decide to buy and would do the above I still do not understand the basics. If the property is advertised at 5 Million, is that broken down to say 4 Million for the house + 1 million for the land? Then my gf buys the land freehold for 1 Million and I buy the house for 4 Million? Or as the house was already built then I think my gf would buy the property freehold for 5 Million? You mention put the land in her name and the house in my name. Is it possible to do that? If so then has it already been decided that the freehold land is worth say 1 Million + the house worth 4 Million? My expat friend purchased his house, that was already built, with his Swiss wife for about 5 Million. They obviously could not have any freehold. I think he said that he paid 1 Million for leasing the land for 30 years but the original land owner entered 600,000 on the contract to pay less tax. At the time years ago my friend just signed without looking. Recently it became a problem because the original land owner sold the land and the new owner discovered what happened and wanted to buy the house cheap. All this has left me confused. Maybe there was misunderstanding as the first language of my expat friend was not English. My biggest query is that if a house in an estate agents window has a price of 5 Million and it will be sold to an expat who has to lease for 30 years. Will he be paying 5 Million for the 30 year lease? The house and land cannot be separated? I am now 72 years old, maybe I am going ding dong without realising?

Thanks for you comment @motdaeng and your advise @Will B Good is good which is why I have been renting for the past 8 years. Possible noise concerns me so I would prefer to rent a house for a period of time that the owner also wishes to sell. The main reason I am considering buying is because I have lived happily with my Thai girlfriend for 8 years and I totally trust her and it would also be a way to give her security. She has not mentioned it and actually seems quite happy to continue to rent. Actually I might continue to rent as if any problem can just move but I would still love to understand the situation when buying.

Thanks for the comments. I am still confused, maybe because I have not bought a house in Thailand, I am just considering it. @Peterw42 thanks for your comment concerning a Thai company, it made me understand the advantage of this as there is no lease period. Although I believe if forming a Thai company with nominee thai shareholders only for the purpose of owning a house it is illegal, Thai law cannot be overcome that easily. For that reason I would never consider going down the Thai company route. About a year ago I spoke an expat friend who had bought a house, he said with a 30 year land lease but he was having problems because when signing the purchase forms the land owner had entered a lower price on the contract to save tax but my friend unknowingly signed it. The expat’s first language was not English so maybe I did not fully understand but I think he said he paid a total of 5 Million but 1 Million of that was for the 30 year land lease. He was having problems because the original land owner had sold the land to another Thai person. That is what I thought he said but now I am wondering if I understood wrong which has led to my confusion. So my question is:- If an estate agent has details of a detached house for sale for 5 Million what exactly does this mean? Many of these houses are sold to expats and many times that a 30 year lease for the land has been mentioned. Does someone own the land and the house, they cannot be separated. Then at the Land Office I would pay 5 Million to lease the land with the house on it for 30 years? So the land owner almost always also owns the house? Thanks Keith

I am having trouble understanding the details of buying a house as a foreigner with a 30 year land lease. As an example let’s say I buy a 3 bed detached single storey house on a 400SQM plot of land that is being sold for 5 Million THB. I sign for a 30 year lease. I am only 40 years old and have a long life expectancy. Also assume that house prices stay constant. I think I am right in that after the 30 years I will own nothing, the land owner will again own the land and everything on it. Obviously at that time another 30 year lease may or may not be agreed. So can the house ever be regarded as separate from the land? Are the words “land lease” confusing me and it should be more accurately be called “land and everything on it lease”? So what is the situation after 15 years? How much is my house and land worth? Is it 2.5 Million THB because any buyer would only have a lease period of 15 years if they cannot successfully negotiate a 30 year lease with the land owner. But if they successfully negotiate a 30 year lease with the land owner for the same price I paid what is the situation? Does the land owner receive 2.5 Million THB for a further 15 years and I also receive 2.5 Million THB. This all seems a bit odd to me? Maybe I am missing something? What is the situation after 29.9 years? I talk to the land owner about another 30 year lease? If he refuses to enter into another 30 year lease or would charge far too much do I own the house and could demolish it before the end of the 30 year lease? This is where my mind becomes totally confused. I can see that this might be possible with the detached house I bought but what if I bought a middle town house? So I ask again, can the house be regarded as separate from the land? Should it always be regarded as renting the house and land for 30 years and paying the rent upfront? I hope someone can help my very confused brain. Thanks Keith

In reply to some of the questions. I have no children or immediate family, all my assets I intend to leave to my Thai gf and her 2 sons. We have been living in Thailand together for the past 8 years, I fully trust her. So far I have been renting a house in Thailand but I will soon start to consider buying a house, it will be a way of giving a gift to my gf but I will have a Usufruct contract drawn up. Concerning pea pension fund, I very recently cashed in my pension funds to buy an annuity for myself, so I have that income until I die. I am lucky in that I am still healthy, I do not take any medication. My plan is to live a lot more than another 7 years 🙂 @Kinnock Why do you state that "Foreign bank accounts where you are non resident can be costly". Are the fee's higher? I want to consider giving to some charities in the near future before I die. @Gaccha I lved in Thailand for nearly 8 years before recently going to the UK. Now I am back in Thailand. So in about 2 or 3 years from now I would have been outside of the UK for over 10 years, so no problem there. Thanks for the information.

@hotandsticky When I have money from my UK house which is at the moment sold subject to contract total will be about £1 Million. I intend to spend some in Thailand but I really do not like the thought of later the UK government taking 40% inheritance tax.