gentlemanjackdarby

Just now, bkk6060 said:

Ok. Sorry.

No problem - just trying to do my bit to get fair and balanced info on the forum and sometimes it's frustrating

49 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

No it would not.

I spoke to a Aetna rep. A few days ago who told me they are gearing up for it and believe it will happen.

You will get an embossed certificate from the insurance company verifying your coverage. 

No nightmares.

Thanks for reading my post and taking the time to reply, but:

I would appreciate it if, in the future, you reply to one of my posts, you would extend me the courtesy of quoting it in its IN ITS ENTIRETY so that those reading your reply would have a complete understanding of what I said without necessarily needing to have read my OP.

We all know there are a lot of folks that don't bother reading the entire thread from beginning to end, which leads to confusion

In my OP, I specifically said that it would be a nightmare '...UNLESS there were 3 or 4 'approved' Thai companies that would offer policies with which the embassies and Immigration became familiar and were accepted on sight'

I intentionally capitalized 'UNLESS' to catch the eye of folks that just skim the posts without completely reading them and to let them know that I only believe it will become problematic (a nightmare) if there is not some sort of standardization of policy disclosures, e,g., a standardized summary disclosure which is a feature of U.S. insurance policies.

An embossed certificate is one way of accomplishing the goal of having 'something' an IO or other interested party could accept at face value. 

31 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If they add the stupid health insurance requirement for O-A, it will soon become a history and lots of people who rely on O-A for partial year stay in Thailand will go for Tourist Visa. I will certainly do that. Two TV a year will cover my 6-month stay in Thailand. Penang, here I come!!!!

The administrative burden of verifying health insurance would be a nightmare for the embassies and Thai Immigration UNLESS there were 3 or 4 'approved' Thai companies that would offer policies with which the embassies and Immigration became familiar and were accepted on sight

The Thailand Embassy in Washington D.C. list 3 or 4 companies for those considering an O-X visa; the coverage amounts (not much) seem to be the same among all the offerings and the premiums are about the same (pretty inexpensive)

Of course, with an O-A, since everything is verified by the embassy in one's country of residence, it might be as simple as using one's 'home' (residence) country policy so long as one is covered, even by reimbursement, for accidents and illnesses abroad.

For example, I was looking at Pacific Cross Philippines as an option if I base myself in the PI and, because PC offers coverage in Thailand, for an O-A, coverage could be verified by the Thailand embassy in Manila along with the other verifiable requirements, such as the health certificate.

14 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I seem to recall reading a post from Ubon Joe about the retirement limit being set at $2,000 USD per month so if anything the amount should reduce rather than increase (But I can't see that happening).

 

Also recall that the last time they "Grandfathered" people they had to have a certain number of extensions (IIRC 10) under their belt so a lot of people will still be in for a shock if it does increase.

 

If I had to put money on it, I would guess it would increase to 1-1.2 Million but at this number (& certainly if it goes to 1.6 Million) some guys might as well go down the 20 year Thai Elite visa for 1 Million 

 

 

I think those with the cash would likely go somewhere else rather than the TE route; most folks don't look favorably on the TE

With that amount of cash, Malaysia is an option and for a lot less, one can get a PI SRRV, which is for as long as one wants and grants residency, which opens up the option of getting an O-A in Manila.

The O-A option now looks like a lot less hassle and uncertainty with the same results as a retirement extension, albeit in two-year chunks

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No/Yes, it's for everyone, there's even a special retirement VISA for the chronically ill SRRV Human Touch.

(But you need Health Insurance acceptable in Philippine hospitals)

 

https://pra.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/SRRV-Info-Guide-04.14.15.pdf

Mind you the medical evaluation is probably the same as Thailand, if you can walk in, you've passed.

I don't have any medical problems, despite being really old, so it doesn't really worry me.

 

Still a bit pricey IMHO (but cheaper than Thailand).

I'd just go as a tourist and extend indefinitely with a jump out and in every 3 years.

That's a lot cheaper at around $300/year, no deposit or financial.

I think you're likely right that in order to qualify under the SRRV Human Touch, there's likely a lot of 'flexibility' in being able to medically qualify, especially if one preferred to have one's 'conditions' evaluated by health care professionals in the PI

However, I think if one were able to qualify, it's possible that the PRA (Philippines Retirement Authority - the outfit that runs the SRRV program) **might** expect to see somewhat significant, by PI standards, expenditures for health care services. I can see where that might be a significant problem for someone having difficulty meeting the financial standards for retirement in Thailand.

I don't think having health insurance acceptable to PI health care providers is a huge problem unless one's budget is really tight - I've been looking at Pacific Cross and their premiums are inexpensive by U.S. standards with options to cut the premium further by assuming a portion of the risk (deductible) and foregoing coverage in high cost areas such as the U.S. Japan, etc.

One of the things that, as an American, I've never seen before is that PC offers policies for folks over 65 with lower coverage amounts along with correspondingly lower premiums - that's not ideal, but at least one could have coverage for the lesser bad things likely to happen as one ages and that would likely allow one to meet the SRRV Human Touch health insurance requirement, if there is one.

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

But $1,400 application fee, then $360/year, includes health care.

Covers your wife and child as well.

 

Cambodia is cheaper at a straight $300/year (multiple entry)

No type of Philippines SRRV includes health care as part of application or annual fee

It does allow, if one so chooses, to sign up for PhilHealth, the Philippines national health care program for PHP 17,000 (about USD 325)

For anyone considering the Philippines and/or PhilHealth, it's essential to do some research; PhilHealth is not comprehensive health insurance as is, for example, a health care policy from Pacific Cross Philippines.

PhilHealth is for inpatient care only and, most importantly for expats, expats can no longer be covered by the 'Z' package, which covers the expensive things like cancer.

The general consensus is the for about USD 325, PhilHealth is worth it from the perspective of getting one into the hospital and 'keeping the hospital honest' from a cost perspective but, in my view, other health insurance is essential

1 hour ago, ExpatDraco said:

And that's your definition of third world countries? Ouch... ignore list.

Uhh... that's exactly the definition of 'third-world' country.

The term 'third-world' was originally defined by political ideology, not economics and is only used by folks to denote an economically developing country who don't know any better.

The folks who use the term 'developing country' instead of 'third-world' are not bowing at the alter of political correctness when they use that term; they're simply using the correct term for a country that is economically advancing.  

5 hours ago, wimpy said:

We have a crypto trading account with a Thai broker. Can transfer transfer whatever currency into or out of it with ease. Be it baht, or any of about 30 different cryptos.

I'd be interested in knowing the broker that you're using, if you'd care to name them.

I had been looking into using BTC as a method of transferring money, primarily to determine if it was less expensive than other means (it isn't), when I ran into the disclosure in their terms of service on coin.co.th about transferring BTC from outside Thailand

I can understand why a broker or a BTC exchange would not care about transferring currencies into an account to buy BTC, since those transfers would go through existing, well-established channels (banks for SWIFT transfers, currency exchanges for cash, Transferwise, etc.) and those that control those channels would get their fees.

As well, those brokers and BTC exchanges would earn a hefty commission on both the purchase and sale of BTC, since the bid/ask spread is huge on every exchange at which I've looked, both in the U.S. and in Thailand.

As for converting BTC 'earned' outside Thailand into THB using a Thailand BTC exchange, I can certainly see why folks other than those who own and control the BTC exchanges would be keen to stop that method - no fees for them!

6 hours ago, wimpy said:

How would they possibly know where the bitcoin came from?

I don't want to hijack the thread and I'd be happy to participate in a BTC and digital currencies technical discussion in a another thread, but I think your question deserves a brief (by my standards and BTC in general) reply:

 Most people think that BTC and other digital currencies are anonymous, but they're really only pseudo-anonymous

One of the strengths of digital currencies, for those who care at this stage of the game, is the fact that there is no central authority 'in charge' of it as there is, for example, with the U.S. Federal Reserve and the USD

The way that digital currencies enforce trust among the users of them since there is no central authority acting as a 'referee' of the 'market', is via the ledger, in which each and every transaction, from the beginning of BTC time, is recorded and which is replicated among all participants in the market AND which anyone who cares to can review.

So unlike, for example, paying someone in cash for professional services rendered which, if it's recorded at all, might only be recorded among the participants, every BTC transaction is recorded in the ledger and the ledger is replicated, ensuring that no disaster or official action will ever destroy it and that every transaction is available to anyone who cares to review it.

Although transactions are recorded in the ledger using the participants' BTC wallet address and not the participants names, it's possible, because of sloppy practices on the part of participants, to 'tie' a BTC wallet to a real-world individual.

Of course, because everyone can review the ledger, it's also possible for BTC exchanges, as well as others, to follow-back the trail of a particular BTC, without knowing or caring who is the owner, to see its history, for example, to see if it was ever used in an 'illegal' transaction or if it was ever used by members of a particular exchange, for example, a U.S.-based exchange.

Because BTC exchanges operate without official oversight and regulation, and by no stretch of the imagination can be considered either independent or transparent, exchanges can pretty much do what they like with one's BTC while those BTC are held by the exchange (and sooner or later, even if one holds one's BTC off-exchange and in cold storage until needed, almost everyone will need to use an exchange), i.e., if an exchange in Thailand saw that a particular BTC was used on or originates from (an) exchange(s) outside Thailand, that exchange could 'freeze' that BTC and not allow further transactions or even return it to its owner. There have been reports of U.S. exchanges 'freezing' BTC that, according to them, was used in an illegal transaction somewhere in the past; there have also been reports of merchants refusing to accept BTC that have been used in transactions in the past that they deem 'unsavory' 

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

My thanks to the OP for confirming the Elite Visa is for those people with more money than sense.

I'm sure that statement is true for a very few folks who have that visa, but I tend to think that most folks that can afford and have or are considering the TE have both a good amount of money AND a fair dose of common sense.

I'm sure that a few folks that have the TE probably hit the lottery or inherited from mom and dad or maybe won a big lawsuit, but I'll bet the majority of folks worked hard for a lot of years, maybe built and sold a company or a patent, spent and invested wisely, (had the sense to know a good thing when they saw it), probably in something intangible (just like the TE), such as equities or bonds.

I'll bet the folks with money and common sense have no problem paying for something they want, in the case of the TE, the privilege of entering and leaving Thailand at their pleasure with no muss, no fuss and without being a plaything of civil service grunts; I'll also bet that while they're here, they're spending a lot more money on other things that a lot of other folks think is a waste of money

11 hours ago, AndyWeickinger said:

Transfer via Bitcoin

and pay it out here in Thailand via coins.th

takes a few min to send , to receive and pay out

The fees involved in converting fiat money into BTC and back again would be an incredible waste of money and much more expensive than a plain-old wire (SWIFT) transfer

If one's U.S. bank charges around the average for a wire (SWIFT) transfer of USD 50, the cost for the transfer would be about 0.2 percent (O.002), i.e., two tenths of one percent

And you'll get a nice paper trail to prove the money came from outside the country, legally, if down the road, you wish to transfer your funds out of Thailand

It's also my understanding that BTC exchanges in Thailand may cancel one's account if one transfers BTC from outside the country to one's account, i.e., use BTC to make international money transfers

It makes me worry about the future of BTC when the BTC fanboys gives such poor financial and legal advice, but mostly it's the financial advice that bothers me

38 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

From Malaysian visa department.

The government pension option has been discontinued - so no Social Security acceptable must show other income.  (about $3000) not SS. 

KINDLY Apply as early as next few month MM2H Financial Requirements will be higher a lot.

SHOW Latest 3 Months Financial Statement Above MYR350,000+(Over 50 Years Old)

 

Fixed deposit $37,000 USD - can't take out plus expected to go to $100,000

 

I have another 3 pages - very complicated. 

 

The not calculating SS in my income knocks me out and I'd not deposit that much money that I couldn't touch.  I already have insurance so I'd be buying it twice.  Maybe you think it's easy I don't nor do many other people I know.  Check with the lady from CM expats. 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Malaysian visa department' but I checked the 'Official Portal' of the Immigration Department of Malaysia (*.gov.my - which denotes an official government domain) and that site makes no mention of MM2H. That in and of itself isn't surprising since there is an an 'official portal' for the MM2H program (sort of like how the PI runs the SRRV program - not much about it on the PI BI website)

I went over to the MM2H site and while there is a 2019 announcement about new requirements for an MM2H application, there is no mention of pension income no longer being acceptable for retirees; however there is language that states that an applicant that states he is employed is not permitted to use other sources of income, such rental agreements, investment benefits, etc. as an income source to qualify for an MM2H pass. There is no specific update that pension income is no longer acceptable for those applicants either.

As well, an agent that I was considering using before I dropped Malaysia down the list as a possible retirement option runs a nice site that is usually updated before the MM2H site, as well makes no mention of pension income no longer being acceptable

The rumor about the fixed deposit increasing has been floating around for awhile, but the only place I've seen that mentioned, with no implementation date, is on the websites of some MM2H agents and when I've looked more closely at their sites, other in-effect changes have not been updated, so I tend to discount those sites.

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

You wrote before and I asked about, " And I guess, if one is in the unfortunate position of being unable to meet the visa requirements of Thailand (or if they can and don't want to put up with mercurial attitude of Thailand Immigration)"

 

What mercurial attitude has Thai Immigration displayed in the income method of extensions?"  

It's foolish to speak of TI only in the context of the 'income method' because I doubt there are TI officers who deal only in that one aspect of the job.

TV is full of threads in which people relate their less-than-ideal TI experiences and, while I'm sure a lot of folks are leaving out key facts in their posts, there are way too many of them to characterize TI as anything other than 'mercurial'; I prefer 'mercurial' since that term doesn't have the more 'unpleasant' connotation of some terms other folks use to describe TI.

After all, all I care about is understanding a situation and improving my odds of a satisfactory outcome should I find myself in it, not the names used to describe it, i.e., 'a rose by any other name...'

You and I have 'exchanged opinions' in the past, so I know you're not a newbie here and so don't think it's very likely that you're unaware of the threads of which I speak

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I have been here 20 years.  What mercurial Thai immigration are you talking about.  This thread is about the income method for the retirement extension as I read it.  So tell me what did Thai immigration change about the income method?

 

And if we want to talk about anecdotal experience I know quite a few Filipino families very unhappy at having to move back to the PI.  They are unhappy because of the giant pay cut and lack of paid health insurance like SS in Thailand.

At the end of the day, no matter how many people post their experiences and how much some people want (hope) to boil life down to a computer program where everyone gets the same results no matter the variables, life for each individual IS nothing more than an anecdote, like it or not.

And most people really only care about their life, their 'anecdote', if you will.

Or to use a phrase I don't particularly care for, 'Your Mileage May Vary', although I prefer 'Your Results Will Likely Vary', which takes into account the vagaries of life.

And the smart folks play the odds - if most folks go to Las Vegas and lose, it's pretty likely, although not guaranteed, that I'd get the same result, so I'll make the smart move and save my money

I have no doubt that you could line up folks unhappy to be in or returning to the PI, just as I could line up an equal number of folks happy with their lot in the PI - such is the nature of life

17 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you know that shortly you will have to deposit 3 million Thai baht in a Malaysian bank and leave it there?  Also get health insurance?  Currently it's $50,000 USD. 

I think there might be some confusion on that

For those over 50, Malaysia has always required the equivalent of MYR 350,000 (about USD 85,722 or about THB 2,700,00) to be in one's home country bank account when applying for the MM2H.

For those over 50, Malaysia has recently required the equivalent of only MYR 150,000 (about USD 36,738 or about THB 1,200,00) to be in a fixed deposit in a Malaysian bank. Not much more than Thailand's option of THB 800,000 (about USD 25,000) and, if one is comfortable keeping that sum outside the comfort and convenience of the U.S., likely not a deal-breaker

For those under 50, the amounts are higher, but for as long as I've been considering Malaysia for retirement, those amounts haven't changed

The only recent change that would matter to most folks is that for retired folks, the MM2H program was recently changed to require the fixed deposit in addition to meeting the monthly income requirement (MYR 10,000 per month, which is about USD 2,500 or about THB 77,600) where in the past one could qualify with money in the bank at home and monthly income only

Health insurance has always been a requirement of the MM2H program - no change there and no problem there since well-regarded insurance companies such as Pacific Cross offer great coverage which, by American standards, is inexpensive

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Pi is not in the same league as Thailand in food, infrastructure and especially health care and security. PI natives jump at the chance to live in Thailand. 

In my view, that's a generalization and while I don't disagree with it, at the end of the day it comes down to what makes an individual happy

There seems to be an awful lot of happy folks who are calling the PI home and even more who seem to be happy with their visits

One striking difference, which I guess would function as something of a proxy for the PI vs Thailand, is that there don't seem to be nearly as many bitter and unhappy folks populating the PI boards as there are on this one

And I guess, if one is in the unfortunate position of being unable to meet the visa requirements of Thailand (or if they can and don't want to put up with mercurial attitude of Thailand Immigration) and can't (or don't want) to go 'back home', I would think those folks would be thankful to have the PI as an option, especially since the tourist visa and retirement visa options are so generous and it seems that most folks are glad to see tourists and expats.

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Burma - no expats there.  Laos and Cambodia - no infrastructure = no expats there.  Vietnam - no retirement visa.  Malaysia Visa too expensive - 10 times Thailand.  Any others you want me to explain?

I wasn't speaking solely of expats or those on retirement extensions

And it would seem to me that for countries with fewer visitors, both expats and tourists, it would be much more likely for their IOs to hassle them, if that was their intention, since there are fewer of them or, to put it another way,  less visitors = more (unwanted) attention.

I was speaking of visas in general since TV seems to be flooded with posts and replies of folks, a lot of whom are indeed 'tourists' trying to stay long-term but also quite a few who seem to be genuine tourists returning frequently who are having problems, indicating that TI is seemingly having problems with the 'simple rules'

'JackThompson' has done an admirable job of laying out the 'whys and wherefores', bless him, so I don't need to get into that

As for the Malaysia (retirement) visa being 'too expensive', that's a matter of perspective (or should I say financial wherewithal) - not too expensive FOR ME; Malaysia seems to spell out very well what is required for a retirement visa and folks who have commented on their experience getting one haven't 'complained' about anything other than it taking longer than they thought it should

Vietnam seems to have quite a few 'retirees', albeit they seem to be staying on multi-entry tourists visas and, at present, VI seems to not care - at the end of the day, they're staying; as well, there don't seem to be many reports about folks having trouble entering the country

I also think there's a lot of folks living in Cambodia who'd disagree that there are no expats in Cambodia and even with Cambodia's recent 'tightening' of visa requirements, no one is complaining much and those who wish to stay long-term seem to be able to do so with no problem.

And yes, I would like you to explain about the PI, since it's screaming by omission; they've actually made their SRRV less expensive and easier to get in the last few years. As well, the PI is the first choice for less well-heeled folks who want to stay long-term on a TV - three years before a visa run seems damn generous to me and while their have been a VERY few reports of folks being questioned when coming back from a visa run, it's quite likely the whole story wasn't reported in those case.

5 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Why are people suggesting things that they know full well that immigration will never do?

The rules are very simple now. For retirement 800k/65kpm in a Thai bank. It is easy to check for TI. Why would they complicate things for themselves? You think that immigration appointing translators is a Win situation for them? Are you maybe projecting your own idea of a "Win" on to imigration? Dream on.

It is not TI job to make it easy for foreigners to stay in Thailand. Their job is to enforce immigration laws that were passed by the government.

You are absolutely 100% correct that 'The rules are very simple now'

The problem, as with most 'simple rules', is in the implementation and for those of us who've been paying attention to the recent changes, TI seems to be having one helluva time understanding and implementing the so-called 'simple rules'

There have been multiple threads on this forum in which TI seems to have a lot of difficulty even with Thai bank statements

You are also absolutely 100% correct, and I couldn't agree more, that 'It is not TI (sic) job to make it easy for foreigners to stay in Thailand. Their job is to enforce immigration laws that were passed by the government'

Since you seem to worship at the alter of 'simple', that again seems to present an insurmountable barrier to TI; again, for those of us paying attention, there have been a lot of threads in which TI did (is doing) whatever they please, the immigration law be damned and making a simple thing very, very difficult

It speaks volumes that one never seems to read about the same type and sheer number of problems with other SE Asian countries' immigration and visas, where documents must be in the language of the respective countries officialdom, as one does with Thailand.

Something to think about  

8 hours ago, trd said:

 

 

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

 

I'm an American and have no experience whatsoever with UK taxes, but in the U.S., one can file a tax return even if one has neither taxable income nor a tax liability.

In fact, I advise folks to file a return even if they are not required to do so because unless a return is filed, the statute of limitations does not begin to run, i.e., years for which a return isn't filed are never 'closed' and therefore open to audit by the IRS or state department of taxation after the normal three years.

In the U.S., it costs nothing to file a return

If Thai Immigration began accepting income tax returns as proof of foreign income, would it be that much of a burden for a U.K. citizen, who is otherwise not required to file a return, to do so?

7 hours ago, mokwit said:

Yes this would simplify matters. I can't imagine any IO would have problems interpreting Yemeni or any of the couple of hundred countries different tax statements - esp those not in English. Certainly a lot easier than interpreting statements from a handful of Thai banks.

Not picking on you, but I've read the comment about IOs dealing with bank statements, income tax returns, etc. in multiple foreign languages and today I feel like replying since no one else has seen fit to do so:

Immigration could simply require that documents in another language be translated into the Thai language and certified by a competent translator

For example, when applying for a Philippines SRRV, the PRA (Philippines Retirement Authority) requires that any documents not in English be translated into English and, in the case of the PI, certified by their embassy (for those applying outside the PI) - It isn't a difficult or novel idea

It's a win-win for everyone - folks needing something from Immigration have much less hassle and the powers-that-be could appoint certain translators and translation companies as 'preferred' or 'certified' translators. The translators would then pay a 'preference' or 'certification' fee' to maintain their status and everybody's happy 

2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Thanks, I've been meaning to search and read up on it.  My financial advisor/staff does the paperwork drill between me and the brokerage outfits but last time I was in the States, asked them how it would actually work - wife being a foreigner, living on the other side of the planet.  They got quiet, hadn't dealt with that situation before but said she could simply contact them and work through it. 

 

I need to gin up some Cliff Notes for her, POC details, what to do, etc., leave it in the safe with all the other stuff.  Be nice to have a similar arrangement for the main Thai bank accts here.  Only joint accts we have are the secondary accounts with ATM access. 

Although you didn't ask and you can take it for what it's worth or leave it, me being me and not liking unknowns, I'd give some thoughts to a couple of things:

I'd be concerned about the brokerages simply saying for your wife to 'give them a call when it happens and we'll work through it' simply because of the mechanics. The reason I say that is if your brokerage accounts holds positions, for example, in equities and if your wife not a U.S. resident (without regard to being a U.S. citizen or not), would they close your positions as soon as your wife asks to transfer the account? THAT could be a financial disaster if the markets are down.

Or in other words, would the brokerage allow your wife to maintain your account and positions (or create an account for her with your positions) if she so desired if she's not a resident?

It would also be helpful if there was someone Stateside, such as an attorney or experienced relative who could handle the inevitable running around that happens when one passes on. In my experience, banks and other financial institutions are helpful in that situation, but things seem to work much more easily when doing things in person.

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's another facet of this debacle that has yet to play out, because we're still in the early days....

 

But as you point out, an accountholder at a particular bank or brokerage in the U.S. doing monthly foreign wire transfers, month after month endlessly in a reasonably substantial amount such as $2K each month, might well end up raising status questions at some point, depending on the particular institution.

 

That's why, as I've been thinking about this, I had pretty much decided, if I ever needed to go the monthly deposits route, I'd do my best to arrange to be doing the transfers from some U.S. account where I do NOT have substantial holdings, e.g., not from my main brokerage accounts or places where I have large/significant deposits...  That way, if something ended up turning south, an account closure or freeze would not have a significant impact.

 

I've considered that and I'm leaning toward having my son make the monthly transfer from time-to-time since, if it came down to it, he could show his face at the bank to prove he's living in the U.S.

I lean toward designating the transfer as 'monthly expenses' - for all the bank knows, I'm just a kid traveling around and my son is the dad paying for it. Nice change!

Great idea though about using an 'unimportant' account to make the transfers