gentlemanjackdarby

1 hour ago, rott said:

What are the fees for Vietnam please. Initial plus extensions and what limit to extensions?

 

 Cheers

It depends on your home country.

I'm an American and I've been getting familiar with requirements for Vietnam, so I'll mention what's applicable to Americans.

Strangely enough, the website for the Vietnamse embassy in Washington D.C. doesn't give cost for the visa; it says to call the embassy.

For Vietnam, Americans must have a visa when they arrive in Vietnam; there is no visa waiver (visa on arrival) and since one must have a visa, there are no extensions (visa waivers can be extended; visas cannot be extended - they expire on the 'enter by' date).

That being said, American passport holders are eligible for a 1-year, multi-entry visa in which each entry is no longer than 90 days. The stamping fee, upon arrival in Vietnam, is USD 135 so even including an embassy or agent's fee, not very much. Other visa types cost less.

That visa is only available in the U.S., but the Washington Embassy's application is all on-line; for successful applicants, the loose-leaf visa is sent by U.S. mail.

In other words, it isn't necessary to send one's passport to the embassy to have the visa sticker affixed to it.

A couple of things to keep in mind, courtesy of the embassy website:

Although the visa is a 1-year, multi-entry visa, the website makes it clear that it's at the discretion of the IO upon arrival in Vietnam how long one is permitted upon each entry; while the website doesn't specifically say it, it goes without saying that the IO may not allow entry at all if he has a a reason not to - maybe if he believes one is a perpetual tourist, working illegally, etc. The same things that some folks are whining about on this forum.

And the embassy website also cautions about using agents - at first I didn't think that, in most case, that would be an issue, but when I looked carefully at one agent's site, I noticed that it's TLD (top-level domain) was 'govt', which is not a legitimate TLD for a government (*.gov). In other words, a bit of trickery. As well, I found another site using the TLD of 'org' which is a bit misleading.

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I met loads of guys there in April last year, they weren't having any problems getting VISA's at all.

Maybe you should visit there, and not just read posts on forums.

They all used agents, so 'denial' is just a river in Africa.

Well, I'm not sure where you mean by 'there' since you didn't state it.

Nowhere in my OP did I say anything about anyone having problems getting a visa, either to the PI or Vietnam

Keep in mind RIF - READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!

Since most folks who go to the PI enter on a visa waiver and don't get SRRVs (an SRRV is a real visa), I have no choice by to assume you meant Vietnam

And I did not read WORD ONE about Vietnam visas on a forum nor did I say that I did in my OP.

As for what I wrote about Vietnam, I read THAT on the official website for the Vietnam Embassy in Washington, D.C. which is pretty close to the horse's mouth.

And I don't share your disdain for forums - I will admit that there are a lot half-baked and crackpot postings on all the forums, but most adults know enough not to believe everything they read and to perform their own due diligence before jumping. I'm also not so arrogant and self-assured to believe that I know so much that someone else's experience or opinion is of no value to me.

In the past, on this very forum, there were a lot of people posting about the eventual and inevitable crackdown on perpetual tourists, those abusing education visas, increased scrutiny on marriage visas, and finally those using 'liar's letters' and other methods to strengthen their financial bona-fides to meet retirement extension standards. And lo and behold, all of those things have come to pass and look at the situation in which some folks find themselves.

Glad I had sense enough to pay attention and act on what I've read on forums. 

14 hours ago, nchuckle said:

Investment trusts,tracker funds, ISAs etc. beyond your comprehension? P.S. they spread your investment so you’re not just buying into one company. 

You get the trophy for the economically illiterate.

Damn, that was a harsh reply to what was a good point.

And I'm not sure why you think tracker funds (what we in the U.S. call 'index funds') have less risk than an individual stock- the whole point of an index fund is to buy the market as a whole or possibly a small target slice of the market and I can tell you from experience, when the market takes a nosedive as it did a couple of months ago, most of the time index funds take a bigger fall (or rise in a rising market) than some actively managed funds or individual stocks.

There's a saying in investing - 'when the market dives, the good stocks get beat up along with the bad' and that goes double when one owns the whole market.

14 hours ago, DepDavid said:

 

I have been transferring from Chase to BBNY for years. So now come April I will not be able to do this?

I ask the next question because this is the first I’ve heard of this. What is the most economical way to send money from Chase to my Bangkok bank account after April?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

This thread is very long so it's likely your question has been answered, but on the off chance it hasn't:

There is no way to make a transfer from Chase to BB NY because BB NY is a commercial bank not authorized to accept retail deposits in the U.S.

The only way to make a transfer from Chase to BB Thailand, which was the destination of your previous transfers (BB NY was just a stop on the way) would be a wire (SWIFT) transfer and with Chase there will be a wire fee (not cheap) as well as a poor exchange rate adding insult to injury.

If your previous transfers were part or all of a payment from U.S. Social Security, because SS makes international direct deposits conforming to IAT standards, you could change your bank from Chase to BB NY and transfers would happen as before, albeit with SS the entire payment goes to one bank which is not ideal if you don't want the entire amount in a Thai bank.

It's also possible that the source of money to your Chase account might send their ACH transfers in conformity with IAT standards, in which case your transfers could continue.

If those aren't options, the best option is to look into Transferwise - their exchange rate is pretty good and their fees are lower, so it's likely a better option than a wire (SWIFT) transfer.

6 hours ago, mokwit said:

Or in other words, if people were not grandfathered in both M and I changed the deal on people who could have made a major irreversible decision to retire there.

Speaking of Malaysia MM2H specifically, but I've found this true of other countries offering actual retirement visas in both SE Asia and Latin and South America, these countries look at the method of attracting retirees differently than does Thailand.

In Malaysia and the other countries at which I've looked offering an actual retirement visa rather than an extension of stay, all the 'qualifying', such as verifying financial bona-fides, criminal record, etc. is done once before the visa is issued and the visa is valid for varying lengths of time (10 years for Malaysia, for as long as one wishes in the PI) and there is no 're-qualifying' each year as there is with Thailand's retirement extension of stay.

I've paid most attention to the Malaysia MM2H and the Philippines SRRV, so I'm most familiar with recent changes for those countries.

I've seen that Malaysia has made quite a few changes in the last 5 years for new applicants for an MM2H visa, but they make it quite clear that the changes apply only to new applicants - they've not applied those changes to folks who have already applied or those who've been approved and hold valid MM2H visas.

The PI has only made a couple of changes to their SRRV program for the time I've been paying attention (about 5 years) and those changes have been to make it easier for folks to qualify.

The biggest change to the PI SRRV has been to the SRRV Courtesy allowing ex-military to avail of that 'flavor'

2 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    Thanks.  So the monthly deposit scheme for a retirement check is completely uncovered.  Basically you would only be a out a month or two if the proverbial 'shit' hit the fan. If you were using the money to live on.  If you were building it up to the 800K you would be completely out of luck in a panic.  Thailand had a such a panic about 20 years ago but I didn't know anyone back then in TH. 

     If you deposit it lump sum the 800k.  You are out all of it since its a foreign currency source deposit which it would be for most retirees.

     I am no longer considering TH for a one year retirement visa.  I will scoot in and out on a 60 day to visit friends and not hold up here for the winter anymore.  

     I did like living a hotel, and eating out, and joining an expensive health club for the winter and doing tours of the countryside and living the life of leisure and frankly contributing to their economy rather nicely when I lived here more long term, but I am sure I can do that in many other countries.

 

    

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'deposit scheme for a retirement check is completely uncovered', but I think most folks if they were, for example, using Transferwise or maybe Bangkok Bank NY for the THB 65K monthly transfer, would be covered since those methods involve a foreign exchange conversion.

It's my understanding that a foreign currency deposit can be used to meet the THB 800K requirement, which is what I was planning, and in that case you're right.

I was considering trying to mitigate that risk by having an account at Citibank thinking I could (likely) use the Global Transfer feature to get the FCD out quickly if things did take a turn for the worse, but this latest announcement has driven home that it's really becoming difficult to consider a retirement extension in Thailand - just too many things about which to worry.

I'm likely to get a Philippines SRRV (retirement) visa because once one gets beyond the initial aggro of getting it, there's nothing more than an annual renewal (pay a fee only) to keeping it in effect. All I was looking for anyway was a base from which to travel around SE Asia and the PI will work for that.

Anecdotal reports suggest that Vietnam is not overly concerned, at least presently, with folks with multi-entry visas doing visa runs for the duration of the visa; as a U.S. citizen, I'm eligible for a one-year multi-entry visa and everything other than receiving the loose-leaf visa (which is sent by mail to one's U.S. address) can be done entirely electronically on the U.S. embassy website.

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No known U.S. banks or credit unions at present offer IAT formatted ACH transfers to their retail banking customers. And none have any plans to offer that format, as best as is known. So the effect is the same, which is the ACH method to BKKB NY enroute to Thailand is effectively ending for American banking customers.

 

At this point, I'll agree with you a little bit about U.S. banks and credit unions for consumer-initiated transfers because I've been looking and have not yet been able to find a bank or a credit union, but I'm still looking.

However, for folks receiving a pension, that isn't necessarily true - U.S. Social Security will send retirement benefit payments as international transfers; likely, there are other pension payers who are doing the same.

U.S. based businesses can easily send IAT ACH transfers - I'm exploring that as well since one never knows.

I expect that sooner or later a business will likely pop up catering to folks needing that service; after all, that's essentially what Deemoney does for people wishing to transfer money FROM Thailand. Deemoney is just making an International ACH payment (which must conform to IAT ACH standards coming INTO the U.S.), not a wire (SWIFT) transfer, which is why the cost is low and it takes a few days.

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     I never ever got a straight answer if the Thai Banking system was insured and guaranteed.  In other words in most of the developed world the banks are insured against deposit losses which might occur during a great natural disaster, economic destabilization or government change over that backfires.  Some TVF members swore YES YES YES.  Others said it was as complicated question.  A few said only for Thai citizens.  Others said there was a law that the original deposit had to be in Thai currency to make it insured.  Or a thai citizen had to be on the account also. 

  

Yes, deposits in Thai banks are protected by deposit insurance.

However, Thailand banking regulators have steadily decreased the amount of bank deposit protection - when initially implemented, deposits were insured up to THB 100,000,000 (about USD 3,000,000) and that amount has been stepped down over time with the final step set to go into effect in about 18 months to only THB 1,000,000 (USD 31,000). Not very much protection at all.

According to Bangkok Bank's website, foreign currency deposits are not covered by deposit insurance.

It seems to me that if the Thailand banking sector was extremely sound, that amount wouldn't be so low; after all, just like a well-made car, if something is 'great', it costs nothing to give a great 'warranty' since customers should very rarely need to use it and it helps with 'sales', which in this case is getting folks to deposit money.

As with any deposit insurance scheme, the plan can be whatever the financial regulator wishes it to be; the proof of the pudding is in the eating, if it comes to that.

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If you're referring to current ACH transfers thru BKKB New York, then of course, that domestic ACH method is going to be closed starting this April as previously announced... leaving only regular wire transfers in its place.

 

No, the domestic ACH method is not going to be stopped in April.

If the domestic transfer is coded in accordance IAT (International ACH Transfer) standards, they will be sent internationally as before.

So if the entity sending the payment adds the additional information required by IAT, BB NY will accept it.

On 11/15/2018 at 4:10 PM, khman said:

Hi,

Sorry, I don't get it. Deemoney allows to send money OUT of Thailand without hassle? Seems it was impossible without an invoice?

When you send money OUT with Deemoney, I guess you do a local transfer, to a Thai bank, then they send international?
I am astonished this is legit. I thought Thailand does not like too much money going out of the Kingdom, without a serious reason like an invoice for goods?

 

Thank you for your help.

The way Deemoney works is by actually making an international payment rather than a SWIFT transfer.

For making a transfer to the U.S., Deemoney is actually making the equivalent of an IAT (International ACH Transfer) ACH payment which is why one's bank routing number rather than SWIFT code is required.

The IAT rules that went into effect in 2009, which are giving grief to folks who use Bangkok Bank NY to make transfers to their BB account in Thailand, also apply to international payments TO the U.S.; Deemoney is the first service of which I'm aware that is allowing consumers rather than businesses to make low cost transfers (payments).

Because Deemoney's transfer is treated as an ACH once it reaches the U.S. is why Deemoney's fee is so low, why there are no intermediaries other than Currency Cloud (the payment gateway), the time it takes for the transfer to reach one's bank, and why, for example, one can transfer to Charles Schwab (which doesn't accept international wire transfers).

9 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I found that a lot of stress and  hassle went away for me once I had done everything official once; first extension of stay, first 90 days report, Thai driving licence, now getting an account organised  and  getting that 800K into the bank well in advance of my next extension of stay. Life is simple here once you have all the pieces  in place, although getting to that position can be frustrating. I must say that all the detailed forward planning before I ever came to live in LOS paid off big time.  

Detailed forward planning - the key to life

14 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Consider, if you are from the USA and I would guess it is the same with other countries if you want an OA visa you apply at the Thai Embassy in that country.  It is then the responsibility of the Thai Embassy in that country to verify that you meet the income requirements before issuing the visa.  Why should it be any different in Thailand?  If it is a Thai immigration requirement, the responsibility rightfully belongs to the Thai government who imposes the requirement.  Why should the governments of other countries be responsible for auditing  and verifying the income requirement?   To say that the Embassies of the USA, Australia, U.K. etc. should gear up to verify is ludicrous.  The Thai immigration offices should have an area where you bring in your bank statements, or tax returns to verify your income.  That is the simplest and most efficient solution.  But this is government.  That says all it needs to about making sense or being efficient. 

It seems to me that the ideal situation would be for Thailand to adopt the 'retirement visa' methods in place in Malaysia and the Philippines.

In those countries, one submits proof of things like monthly pension and cash on deposit in demand (checking/current/savings) accounts in one's home countries to one's home country's embassy upon application for the retirement visa.

If one is granted the visa, at that point one puts an amount of money 'under lien' (on deposit as long as one holds the visa) in a bank account in the respective country and there is no proving and re-proving one's financial bona-fides.

The nice thing about retirement visas in those countries is that they are visas rather than extensions of stay and, in practice perpetual (Malaysia 10 years and the PI as long as one likes) with no visiting immigration, no re-entry permits, etc.

With Thailand's recent changes to the income method and the fact that I want to keep as little of my money 'under lien' outside the U.S. as I reasonably can, my thinking at this point is that I will get a PI retirement visa since, as a U.S. vet, I can get a Courtesy SRRV with only USD 1,500 deposited in a PI bank - I'll simply visit Thailand with either an O-A (2 years) or as many METVs as I can get.

With the PI SRRV, I'll have some insurance that if I'm not allowed entry at a Thailand airport, I can likely convince the immigration folks to allow me to go to the PI rather than all the way back to the U.S. as I have a PI residence visa.

On 1/26/2019 at 10:34 AM, marcusarelus said:

I won't park 25 grand in a Thai bank = I'm really broke.  Interest lost for 3 months is coffee change.  Anyone needing that is really broke and should go home. 

 

We know, we know.  Yall don't have to try and make up convincing arguments anymore, honest.  It's OK to be broke.  Thai visa posters are not that stupid.  We know the story.  Don't worry it's ok. 

I'm sure you're right they're there are some broke folks who say that.

However, just like a coin, there are two sides to every situation and one can look at every situation as either the glass is half full or the glass is half empty - I tend to look at life from 'the glass half full point of view' and that's how I look at folks who say 'I won't park USD 25K in a Thai bank'.

The folks who have USD 25K to park for a while, whether it be for 3 months or 20 years, likely didn't get that money by not understanding the value of a dollar, taking foolish risks, or by throwing away a dollar here and a dollar there.

Beyond the better returns offered elsewhere and wasting money making two SWIFT transfers each year (transfer in to Thailand to season and transfer out (and going through a drill) after getting the extension) there are other things to consider.

In a fully developed financial system such as the U.S., one's bank deposit accounts (as well as brokerage accounts) can be designated as Totten trusts (payable on death to a beneficiary) by the account holder by the completion of a simple standard bank form FOR FREE - this ensures that when one's day comes, one's assets will be quickly transferred without going through the probate court process by simply presenting a death certificate to the bank.

It is my understanding that no such thing exists in Thailand and transferring a decedent's bank deposits involves retaining an attorney and going through a drill - likely an unpleasant, time consuming, and costly process for a beneficiary living outside Thailand.

One other thing that should be carefully considered before having any more money in a Thai bank than one wouldn't care about losing is that Thailand banking regulators have steadily decreased the amount of bank deposit protection - when initially implemented, deposits were insured up to THB 100,000,000 (about USD 3,000,000) and that amount has been stepped down with the final step set to go into effect in about 18 months to only THB 1,000,000 (USD 31,000). Not very much protection at all.

It seems to me that if the Thailand banking sector was extremely sound, that amount wouldn't be so low; after all, just like a well-made car, if something is 'great', it costs nothing to give a great 'warranty' since customers should very rarely need to use it and it helps with 'sales', which in this case is getting folks to deposit money.

With the way Thailand has been, and rightly so, tightening the screws on perpetual tourists, many folks from the 'Gang of Four' embassies countries lying on their sworn income affidavits, and others dancing around the edges on marriage and ed visas, I predict that the next things we'll likely see from the Thai authorities in regards to retirement extensions is increasing the amount that must be kept on deposit to THB 1,000,000 (USD 31,000), requiring that the deposit be kept 'under lien' (not removed or decreased) for the duration of the extension and, for folks using the income method, proof that a significant portion (for example, 75 percent as Malaysia is implementing) of their monthly income is from a pension (not subject to fluctuation as are things like dividends, interest, equities, etc.) 

13 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I can see that one of those may be of interest to a limited number of people, in particular circumstances, but few if any would be affected by both.

 

Are there really that many people in the situation you describe? I dont think that I personally know anyone who is. I certainly would rather get the extra bank interest paid by a better bank, as for me this amounts to much more than I would ever pay in transfer charges per year (usually nothing).

To your first point, speaking from an American perspective and as someone that's worked since age 10, I'd think that many more Americans than not would be effected by both:

Most Americans, even if they haven't paid into U.S. Social Security for their entire working career or have held low-paying jobs will receive an SS retirement benefit at some point - the minimum SS retirement benefit for most folks is around USD 800 per month and the average benefit for 2018 was around USD 1,400.

Neither of those amounts, which are gross amounts (for some people, SS retirement benefits are taxable for federal income tax and some states tax them as well) meet the requirement for a retirement extension of THB 65,000 per month, which mean some folks may need to transfer additional money to meet the monthly income requirement.

As I mentioned in my previous post, U.S. Social Security codes their ACH retirement benefit payments to comply with IAT requirements, which means those folks having a Bangkok Bank NY account are not paying SWIFT wire transfer fees to receive their SS retirement benefit in Thailand.

Of course, an American could simply receive his benefit via ACH from SS to his U.S. bank account and make one transfer meeting the monthly income requirement via SWIFT wire transfer or Transferwise - that will work, but leaves no backup if his U.S. bank decides to close his account because he is a non-resident. With the increased U.S. government emphasis on 'security' and 'eliminating the funding of terrorism', which brought us the IAT ACH requirements, it has become more difficult in recent years for U.S. citizens to maintain their U.S. financial accounts if they are not also U.S. residents.

U.S. Social Security or, more precisely, the U.S. Treasury (that actually pays SS retirement benefit), has a simple and reliable system for paying its beneficiaries that live outside the U.S.

And if someone needs to transfer additional income each month, from a fee perspective, Transferwise costs less than a U.S. bank SWIFT transfer; as well, Transferwise gives a great conversion rate which is something U.S. banks do not. Most folks, when speaking of U.S. banks' wire transfer fees, never seem to understand that they're being raped on the conversion rate and just how poor it is.

One thing to remember about Transferwise is that the cost increases as the amount transferred increases - another reason, in addition to having a backup source for receiving monthly income, for taking a free transfer (SS to BB NY) when one is available. 

The wrinkle in using Transferwise is that it seems that unless one's transfer goes to BB, the transfer is not coded as 'FTT' which a lot of folks believe may not be acceptable to Thai Immigration when it's extension time and monthly income, originating outside Thailand, must be proved.

Well, judging by a few of the very long threads about the cessation of income affidavits by the so-called 'Gang of Four' embassies recently and resulting quandary many people seem to believe that they're in regrading trying to prove their income for their next retirement or marriage extension, I'd have to say 'Yes' to your second point.

If one is using, for example, BB bank solely to receive the required monthly extension income and then using that income for living expenses, those transactions and the resulting average daily balance will be so small that the interest earned is not worth talking about.

That being said, although the THB 800,000 (USD 25,000) 'cash-in-bank' amount for a retirement visa really isn't that much, I agree with you that it belongs somewhere else earning a better rate and, even though those rates aren't much by historical standards and the monthly interest isn't a lot, I won't 'park' that amount in a Thai bank.

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

A friend of mine opened an MTD savings account at Krungsri in Pattaya recently without any trouble at all. He had no visa, just the usual 30 days given at the airport on arrival.

 

The only requirements were a passport, a certificate of residence from Immigration (available instantly to anyone who has 300B to pass over, or for free after a few weeks delay), and a couple of thousand Baht to deposit.

 

It beats me why people waste so much time with Bangkok Bank when they dont offer any accounts that pay decent interest.

As far as Bangkok Bank goes, I can see at least two very good reasons for folks to go the extra yard to get an account there:

The majority of anecdotal evidence suggests that BB is the one bank that shows 'FTT' (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer) on transfers using Transferwise, which is important to the folks supporting a retirement extension application using the monthly income method and;

For folks from the U.S., Bangkok Bank NY can receive an ACH (Automated Clearinghouse) transfer from those pension payers (such as U.S. Social Security) and financial institutions using IAT (International ACH Transaction) coding to transfer their pension or other transfer directly to BB Thailand, thus saving those folks A LOT of money on SWIFT transfer fees and presumably building a nice support file for retirement or marriage extensions.

For folks using the income method for extensions and presumably not keeping a significant balance in the account, the interest rate is irrelevant but the savings from SWIFT fees is significant.

6 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Not what I was told when I went into the immigration office in Jomtien.  The bank manager said it had to be on deposit for 3 months, so did the immigration office. Irrespective of that.  How does a person open up any sort of bank account without a 90 day visa even at Bangkok bank when you need to have an income verification letter no longer available or a bank account you can't open. 

I'm planning to get an O-A, which is a one-year visa, from the Thai embassy in my home country prior to coming over

3 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

Fidelity does free Swift transfers and Mapguy says that USAA does also.  I haven't been able to confirm that with USAA yet.  They charged me $45, perhaps improperly.  What I know is free with USAA is domestic transfers but that option goes away on April 1st with Bangkok Bank's policy of only accepting IAT transfers after that.  Bangkok Bank says that after that date, ordinary ACH transfers will be returned.

It appears that there is some confusion when speaking about 'transfers'

A lot of folks seem to use the word 'transfer' to describe two very different things:

In the U.S., the domestic ACH (Automated Clearing House) is a 'batch' (all transactions grouped together and 'posted' to accounts once per day) system that was designed years ago to 'clear' checks among member banks. It is now also widely used for payroll (employer's bank makes an ACH debit from it's account at Bank 1 for credit to it's employee's account at Bank 2 for employee's net pay) payments for retirement benefits such as U.S. Social Security or military pensions, individual's paying routine bills, and also to 'transfer' money from one's account at Bank A to one's account at Bank B.

In general, ACH 'transfers' are almost always free, although I do have an account with a piss-ant local bank that would charge me USD 3 if I made an ACH 'transfer' from that account to another bank.

Because the ACH system is a batch system that does its thing once per day, it's currently not possible to execute a transaction immediately (although that is being addressed by banks who are members of the Zelle network); at best, one can 'transfer' money in one day (overnight) (Citibank, in limited amounts) to 3 days (most other banks and brokerages).

Because most ACH transactions are scheduled for 3 days, an ACH transaction can be 'recalled' by the originator if there is an error and that is fairly common when using the ACH system for payroll.

The ACH system is only available to U.S. banks and institutions who are members of the system, which in practice is most of them - that system can't be used internationally.

The way Bangkok Bank uses the ACH system with it's New York branch (a commercial bank which is not a retail bank offering banking service to individuals) is for folks to make an ACH transfer to BB NY using the ACH bank routing number for BB NY and the the actual account number for the BB account in Thailand; when BB receives the ACH transfer, it simply credits the transfer to the individual's account at BB Thailand.

From an individual's perspective, it's effectively an ACH transfer with a minimal fee.

The other thing that the word 'transfer' gets used for is an actual real-time, one-off transfer using the SWIFT system.

The SWIFT system is a world-wide system that does not 'batch' it's transactions, so transfers happen in real-time. Of course, because it doesn't 'batch' transactions, operates world-wide, sometimes with intermediary banks, and transfers are unlikely to be able to be 'recalled' if there's an error, the costs of a transfer are much higher.

AFAIK, no bank or brokerage does SWIFT transfers for free unless one has, for example, 'private banking' (Chase) status, i.e., a high net worth and even then, Chase only waives the fee on a few transfers each month.

It's unlikely that USAA charged you improperly if you made a SWIFT transfer, even if it was a domestic transfer.

Also, the ability to use the ACH system for transfers to Bangkok Bank NY for onward credit to an individual account at BB Thailand isn't going away - it's simply that the U.S. ACH originator needs to code the credit in compliance with the IAT format.

It's my understanding that, for example, U.S. Social Security will do that.

However, one drawback for not having ALL ACH credits conforming to the IAT format is that it will be problematic for folks who want to keep a portion of their pension in the U.S., i.e, originate their own ACH transfer from another bank that receives their entire pension credit to BB NY

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Why are these threads so popular? What's the problem putting some petty cash in the bank?

 

For years, many forum members of mature age here have been complaining about cheap backpackers and welcoming every new visa rule limiting their stay. What's the problem of putting 800k baht in the bank which at your advanced age should represent 2-5% of your wealth? Most of you should be on extension anyway.

 

Unless, of course, everyone has been lying.

Of course a lot of folks have been lying since most people really don't plan and execute for retirement.

Speaking as one for whom the deposit represents, on a percentage basis, an immaterial amount of my net worth, no matter what percentage it happens to represent of one's net worth, at the end of the day it represents about USD 24,000 and USD 24,000 is USD 24,000.

I completely understand those who point out that having that amount of money in a foreign country whose political and banking systems are not as stable and 'user friendly' as those in the countries from which most come may be cause for concern, especially if one happens to pass away there.

And speaking as someone who has worked consistently since age 10, I didn't get what I've got by not paying attention to the pennies - as the old saying goes, 'watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves'.

At the end of the day, does anyone really believe that someone who can prove they have at least the equivalent of THB 800,000 in some sort of account back home or can meet the income requirement from back home is somehow going to become a burden on the Thai state simply because their resources aren't in a Thai bank?

And why shouldn't one be able to keep one's assets working harder back in their home country, especially since in this day-and-age it's just not that hard to prove one's financial resources.

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

First paragraph says there are strict privacy laws.

 

The second paragraph suggests that the strictness and privacy can be quickly and individually relaxed so private individuals can do something trivial such as pitch their tent in Thailand.

 

Nope, sorry, I don't see how one can work with the other.

Here's how and why it works:

In the U.S., and likely other countries as well, the privacy applies to the disclosure of my  personal information held by Social Security, my broker, my banker, etc. to third parties without my consent which would be, in this case, embassy employees if they asked Social Security directly for the amount of my monthly retirement benefit.

I'm free to disclose the amount of my Social Security retirement benefit, or brokerage balances and holdings, or bank account balances and transactions to anyone I choose and no laws are broken.

So if I sit at a computer under the watchful eye of any embassy employee, log into my Social Security account, brokerage account, etc., bring up my benefits letter, brokerage balance letter, or bank statement, print it, and the embassy employee certifies it, no privacy laws are broken.

In that scenario, everyone wins - Social Security et al have safeguarded my information and not disclosed it to third-parties, embassy employees have verified the numbers and truthfully certified that they are correct, Thai Immigration gets a verified and certified piece of paper for their files, and I get an extension of stay.

The extra step of logging into a website and printing a letter or a statement should only take a couple of minutes more than the current process at the embassy and should be trivial for folks living in the 21st century.

7 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The thing is that anyone who is on a government pension can prove their income quite easy and it is also easy for the embassies to be able to verify government pensions. It would not take much for each of the embassies to have access to the amounts that are paid for the different government pensions. I can print mine out of official Australian government letterhead and it tells the type of pension that I am receiving so how hard would it be for the embassies to have a list of the different government pensions to check.

I'm an American and, in America at least, there are somewhat strict privacy laws against sharing of information amongst government entities; as I understand it, the UK, EU, Australia, etc. having much stricter privacy standards than does the U.S.

That being said, in this day-and-age it, it would be trivial and quick for an embassy to verify legitimate sources, balances, and income amounts if they chose to do so.

All that really need be done to accomplish this is for the embassy to provide a few low-end, ultra secure computers (Chromebooks would be my recommendation) connected to the internet via a VPN to 'back home' which would be used by the expat to login to, for example, U. S. Social Security for a U.S. citizen, his bank account, brokerage account, etc. and print the pension, brokerage balance letter, bank statement, etc. that is now provided online by these entities, while being observed by the embassy functionary that would then certify both the document and the declaration.

Modern web browsers, such as Chrome, show in the status bar when one is connected to the 'real' domain of legitimate businesses, so there is no real chance for an expat to spoof the domain of say, U.S. Social Security or Citibank, for example.

For those concerned about the security of their login credentials using a computer other than their own, any financial institution worth keeping one's money in offers two-factor authentication, so it would not be possible for a 'rogue' embassy employee to login to the expat's account at some later time.

As well, a paranoid expat could simply change his password and, if highly paranoid, his user ID after the embassy visit using his personal 'trusted device'.

And, since Chromebooks are as secure as it gets outside of governments, with things like verified boot to ensure no operating system tampering, no real way to install things like keyloggers to collect credentials, segregation of users, no such thing as an 'admin' account as in Windows, etc. etc. etc., there is no real worry about using one that one doesn't own to log into a financial institution. And of course, there's always the good old reboot option to clear the Chrome browser.

I manage the external financial audit for my employer and that is how our external auditors verify the existence of and the amounts in our bank accounts - no longer do they send paper bank confirmations; it's done online under the watchful eye of a member of the audit team who then 'signs off' on that audit segment.