timber

Thanks for the history. Useful, interesting and makes it easier to understand the difficulty of rationalizing what is happening down south.

Nice to see someone working with Jathopha. Read a lot but not sure how real it was. I understand it isn't too hard to grow but harvesting is a bit of pain. I think if you have a bit of land grow a jathropha hedge and make biodiesel out ot the fruit. It really isn't that hard to make biodiesel that will run 100 percent in any diesel engine since 1993. You just have to make sure you do it right. You can make it in the garage.

The price is up for rubber right now. India and China will need a lot of rubber in the future and more as their economy climbs. I find it hard to think Thailand will produce enough rubber to satisfy the needs of India and China. Rubber tree wood is in demand for lumber not sure what the price is. Seems like a good lumber. If the rubber trees prunned properly you can increase the price of the lumber. The recovery of lumber out of the rubber tree is poor because of the lack of prunning and the poor shape of the tree.

I have seen nud_e calendar's in a country store location which never has any farangs, the families are good and hard working. I think more of a novelty than anything else. I don't think anybody is shocked over it. See a bit of cheesecake in houses because the Thai women think a lot of pretty farang women.

Most of the people in the world have grown up with Pluto being the ninth planet. Now a group of scientists have decided through their own value judgement that Pluto can no longer be called a planet.

To me that is kind of like saying to your dog he is now a cat because they both have four legs. It's our solar system and we should have a say in what happens to it. There's too many high paid people telling us what to believe.

"Surat Thani shows potential to be oil palm production hub"

The head of the Thai Chamber of Commerce indicated that Surat Thani should be the hub of

biodiesel production and research. They currently have a oil palm research center. I would think

that they would have all of the stuff in one spot. Maybe politics at work. I come from the Canadian Bush and its hard to believe the problems you can have with communication because of distance.

I thoght samui they just shot at each other on the island

It is the island with the nests or is an island with bird nests.

H2oDunc-- Yes the islands where the birds are. The locals are very scared to go near the islands. Its nice to know you can get agreements someone was saying that one of the islands is quite nice. People understand because of the money, but I don't think anyone from that area thought about getting permission. You said IE had permission. Who is IE?

I have spent some time south of Chumphon and have some relatives that are fisherman. I was wondering about some good line fishing on the east coast. I hope it isn't over fished. Can have some comments please.

Thanks for the return comment. I understand what you are saying. There is one small problem. If you go to close to some of the islands south of there they will shoot at you.

Galong Thanks for the information. If you were around 1000 years ago the world would be without problems. I am sure I have sinned in my life and would appreciate a list of what I should do and should not do. I think you follow the phrase [/b] I think you were sucessful in your message as it has been a long time without any input.

Well keep in touch. Will be moving just south of Chumphon in a year or so and hope to do some local tourism. Some coral not too far away but too deep for snokeling. When you say the diving IMHO is better than Koh Tao what do you mean?

Teletiger said some pretty interesting stuff. Not sure if you have to remove the stumps but have to treat them at the least. Again need to check out how well the Eucalyptus is growing and how old the plantation is. There is some mention of the leaves of the Eucalyptus making the soil toxic in the thread by z21rhd. There seem to be definite problems following up a Eucalyptus plantation. They deplete the land. You would definitly have to do a major fertilization. At 25,000 per rai down south you could make a lot of money on a rubber tree plantation. They have the moisture. Rubber trees need a reasonable amount of moisture. Being Issan I would assume you don't have the rainfall. In which case a drip system would take care of both of the problems with water and fertilizer. My in-laws have rubber trees and they work hard but make good money. You would be hiring someone for every 10 rai or so to look after the rubber processing and would probably give them 40% or so of the take.of prices. I would look for examples of people growing rubber in Issan, and see how much they are making. Can make less than down south if you pay 25,000 per rai but not a lot less. If they are selling for 25,000 per rai maybe the eucalyptus is not doing all that well or is young and doesn't want to wait for the pay day.

Sounds good. Surat Thani has the port and rail. Lots of opportunity for oil palm production. They have a research facility? I would hope that they would share what they know with the rest of us. I see some pretty poor practices north of Sarat Thani. I think they need some outward bound ag. techs. to pass on the message. With the price of rubber there has to be an incentive to plant oil palm. Where can you find the price palm oil fruit is selling for?

In the Bangkok post on Monday July 31, 2006

"Communities or individuals seeking to make B100 fuel for commercial sale can register and obtain the formula until the end of September at the department's provincial offices, according to director-general Phanich pongpirodom. Suited specifically for farm machinery and low-speed diesel engines, it will be price at 22-2 baht per litre, compared with nearly 28 baht for petroleum diesel."

They are looking to make B100 fuel from palm nuts, jatropha or 100% waste vegetable oil

China No.3 Oil Producer Moves Into Biodiesel With M'sian Firm

By Tham Choy Lin

BEIJING, July 24 (Bernama) -- China's third largest oil company, China National Offshore Oil Corp (CNOOC) has inked a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with a Malaysian firm to develop palm oil-based biodiesel in a shift towards renewable energy sources.

The pact was signed between its subsidiary, CNOOC Oil Base Group Ltd, with Bio Sweet Sdn Bhd which specialises in biotech and palm diesel research and development, here Monday.

Under the MoU, CNOOC will build a plant in Hainan Island in 12 months with a capacity of 120,000 tonnes. It will also set up a joint venture called CNOOC (Malaysia) Biofuel Sdn Bhd with a view of a listing in Malaysia eventually, Bio Sweet Sdn Bhd managing director A.K. Liew said.

Chin has suggested that CNOOC consider building production facilities in Malaysia which can currently produce 60,000 tonnes of oil palm-based biodiesel that meets European standards.

Malaysia has also developed a winter version of the fuel for use in cold weather.

Chin said the Malaysian government has decided to set aside 6 million tonnes of its existing 15 million tonnes annual output for the biodiesel industry which has gained greater momentum in the wake of rising crude petroleum prices.

Malaysia, the world's largest palm oil producer, has embarked on developing Envo Diesel, biofuel of five percent processed palm oil and 95 percent petroleum diesel to be introduced next year for government vehicles.

-- BERNAMA

Crop production

MT/ha Fuel product /ha Energetic equivalent kwh/ha

Elaeis guineensis 18–20 3,600–4,000 33,900–37,700

Jatropha curcas 6–8 2,100–2,800 19,800–26,400

Aleurites fordii 4–6 1,800–2,700 17,000–25,500

Saccharum officinarum 3-5 2,450 16,000

Ricinus communis 3–5 1,200–2,000 11,300–18,900

Manihot eaculenta 6 1,020 6,600

I think the last quote was from someone who was a bit of an extremist. There are many things in this world that can cause you harm or kill you if you eat them. The articles indicate that there should be some caution. Indian is growing a lot I think and eating the seeds hasn't been a problem. Eating rocks can hurt your teeth also.

Another interesting quote from an articles. "'Are you aware that four seeds of Jatropha can take life of normal person? It is true. Jatropha seeds are very poisonous. Unfortunately it is under promotion in countries like India. The seeds are good in taste and this taste encourages the children to consume it. We have observed that as the Jatropha plantation is increasing the incidences of Jatropha poisoning are increasing. It is not a good sign. The toxic nature of its seeds have been reported.

'Toxicity

The poisoning is irritant, with acute abdominal pain and nausea about 1/2 hour following ingestion. Diarrhea and nausea continue but are not usually serious. Depression and collapse may occur, especially in children. Two seeds are strong purgative. Four to five seed are said to have caused death, but the roasted seed is said to be nearly innocuous. Bark, fruit, leaf, root, and wood are all reported to contain HCN (Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk, 1962). Seeds contain the dangerous toxalbumin curcin, rendering them potentially fatally toxic.'

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_en...s.html#Toxicity

Please protect your children from this exotic plant.In many states Jatropha is planted in school compounds and in surroundings of ponds.

Pankaj Oudhia"

Quote"According to Ochse (1980), "the young leaves may be safely eaten, steamed or stewed." They are favored for cooking with goat meat, said to counteract the peculiar smell. Though purgative, the nuts are sometimes roasted and dangerously eaten. In India, pounded leaves are applied near horses' eyes to repel flies. The oil has been used for illumination, soap, candles, adulteration of olive oil, and making Turkey red oil. Nuts can be strung on grass and burned like candlenuts (Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk, 1962). Mexicans grow the shrub as a host for the lac insect. Ashes of the burned root are used as a salt substitute (Morton, 1981). Agaceta et al. (1981) conclude that it has strong molluscicidal activity. Duke and Wain (1981) list it for homicide, piscicide, and raticide as well. The latex was strongly inhibitory to watermelon mosaic virus (Tewari and Shukla, 1982). Bark used as a fish poison (Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk, 1962). In South Sudan, the seed as well as the fruit is used as a contraceptive (List and Horhammer, 1969–1979). Sap stains linen and can be used for marking (Mitchell and Rook, 1979). Little, Woodbury, and Wadsworth (1974) list the species as a honey plant. "

Once established rubber is probably the crop with the least headaches and management once established, but that is seven years or so. Rubber can benefit from fertilizer and additional water. Oil palm is very hungry and thirsty. Oil palm has to come into its own sometime. Besides bio-diesel there are many many products that can be produced from oil palm. You can make your own biodiesel with little cost. When I said there was some good information on the Issan page I mean that good management techniques are applicable to any site. One has to, I think, deal with the local farmers with a arm's length view. I have seem some atrocious management of plantations and crops down south. One should remember that the government doesn't have a very good educational system for farmers and ranchers. Most of what they know is from word of mouth or their fathers. Which may be good or maybe not so good. I have seen some very good management also.

Jathopha gets about one/third the production of Oil Palm but probably requires a lot less management and investment. Although a little more water and nutriants never hurt any plant. You can invest a lot less in capital and the return is quicker. You gain in the start up time a year vrs. 3 to 4 for oil palm and the production life is longer. No matter what you grow check out the availability of water, dig a hole and see what you have for soil. Get a soil assessment done. See what they are growning in the area.

Should know what you are getting into before you plan a harse site. There are some good recommendations from ranchers and farm oriented people in the Issan section.

I'm sure you aren't the only one. Hope to be moving there in a year or so. Just south of Chumphon. The southern site has been dead for the last bit so maybe just a lack of interest in seeing your message. There are farangs working at the schools although a lot of people surprisingly don't really use TV that much.

Can get a ticket for about $300 right now in Bangkok. Big thing I guess in getting a ticket there is the certainty of a booking and its done.

The type of growth needs and management are quite a bit different. Harvesting would also be a pain. The government is wondering why they don't have more people growing oil palm for biodiesel. Is very hard to understand what the policy is. Different ministers seem to have different policies. In both Canada and the United States there are technical advisers in the local agricultural and ranching areas to advise the farmers and ranchers on their needs. I think it sure would be a good return on investment for the government to have something like this to tell the small agricultural producers what the hel_l is going on and how the can increase yields and profits. It would also give the government a forum for communicating with these people.

I tend to agree with timber altho I have no experience with either oil palm or rubber I do have experience with coconut and they are usually heavy feeders.