Nigel Garvie

48 minutes ago, ourmanflint said:

Let's hope Biden wants a United Ireland.

I don't really think that Boris really thinks about things in this depth.  However it would be the most monumental  laugh if he had actually set himself up for the most immortal bruising in Political history, into the bargain.

4 hours ago, IgboChief said:

 

Frank,

as I wrote before: it is actually believable, but nobody dares to draw the conclusion from it. If 70 Mill. people prefer to vote for a toxic clown in order to tear down a democracy instead of contributing to the development of the nation and the people, then this nation is doomed. Hating to live in the basement, they'd rather burn down the whole house.

 

How to run and to govern a democracy - an organization which depends on informed decision - with people like that?

Russia and China must laugh their asses off these days.

The signs are that Russia and China are not looking too happy right now, for I guess rather different reasons.

Trump has become synonymous with people on the far right,  and with the hard core of the GOP, so obsessed with feathering their own nest, but I think we make a mistake. When we see now a sad forlorn figure, wandering in a lost manner round the White House, we are looking at the collapse of the fantasy of one man. Trump has never cared about politics, and as was correctly said, should never have been allowed anywhere near the WH, for his own good, and everyone else's. It is clear that he has deep routed personal problems. The tragedy is that instead of playing out his problems in a secure environment, he has played them out as POTUS on the American people, leaving them with a society dramatically more divided than before. This damage is vast, and could last for decades.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

He's slower than before nobody is denying that but he's smart and experienced enough to organize an incredibly effective cabinet. I am worried about the transition period though. Definitely a vacuum now and an opportunity for enemies.

I am not a US citizen, but I have always admired the many checks and balances that the founders (With possibly some later amendments?) built into the constitution. Unfortunately your Electoral college system mirrors our UK  FPTP stupidity, and the Senate gives too much power, to a small number of people, in States that contribute too little to US PLC (I understand that it was a necessary compromise at the time). 

One thing that I will never understand though is why there is a 2 1/2 month gap between election and taking power. Asking for trouble, as should have been obvious I would have thought. 

If this doesn't work he can always launch the anti-vax party, or the anti immigrant party, maybe the "Friends of Trump" party.

I believe the poor fall guys and girls who stood as Brexit MPs in the 2019 election are still waiting for Farage to give them deposits back. Trouble was that Farage's masters (Murdoch et al) wanted him to give Boris a clear run. 

Farage sinking into nonentity in as graceless a manner as he possibly can. I expect the MEPs who have had to suffer his anal poposity for many years will be finding it hard to suppress a snigger. 

5 hours ago, dexterm said:

So that's two rival Labor leaders Starmer has now managed to get rid of with over the top reactions.

 

Corbyn has spent his whole life fighting racism and social injustice.

 

Starmer is simply doing the backstabbing and bidding of the pro Zionist Labor lobby, perhaps because he is an avowed Zionist himself
“I support Zionism without qualification.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-jewish-groups-say-new-labour-leader-failing-to-crack-down-on-anti-semitism/

 

Here is the real reason the Zionist Starmer has shafted Corbyn
OP "[Corbyn] A veteran campaigner for Palestinian rights who spent decades as an obscure lawmaker on the left-wing fringes of the party, Corbyn shocked the establishment by winning the Labour leadership contest in 2015."

 

But Starmer will probably split the party in the process to make them unelectable, so that the Conservatives, where the real anti Semites hide (no inquiry there note!), can continue to cosy up to Israel to stifle Palestinian human and civil rights.

Before addressing this above, I have to say the ideas that the TV expat brigade have on the Labour Party recent and current history are hilarious. Dianne Abbott (Who obviously gets some people worked up) is a powerless back bencher, and no longer relevant, just for one example.

Yes indeed the far left have been working hard to polish up the "Starmer is a Zionist" line. Clever selective editing, but utter bs. 

"Corbyn has spent his whole life fighting racism and social injustice."  yes yes yawn. No complaints of anti semitism before he lead the party, and masses since.  Well well must all be some Blairite plot to get at the messiah. The far left even got together their own "Report" to cover their <deleted> when they EHRC inquiry was looming. Ah.......the EHRC must be biased. 

JC is not an anti semite per se, I would certainly agree. Unfortunately there was no real attempt during his time in power to stem the truckloads of vile social media troll filth directed at ordinary decent Labour MPs etc who happened to be Jewish (Though not in anyway supporters of the despicable actions of the current Israeli government).

"But Starmer will probably split the party in the process to make them unelectable,"  The possibility of serious harm to the LP on this issue is real, but it was already there. Corbyn's continuing attempt to pretend it was all a conspiracy against him are beyond pathetic, he is splitting the party. Apart from that he made the LP unelectable, the worst election result for 80 years, who got that?

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

And all should be looking at the underlying cause. My thought, supported by at least the economic statistics is that the political policies of both major political parties over the past 30-45 have caused increased economic pressure on the working middle class which forms the vast majority of the participatory democracy’s population. With the growth, over the time period of the income/wealth disparity gap we have come to a critical juncture of disfunction. Many of those in the current working middle class were raised in a time witnessing the, at first tremendous growth of the US economic income and now, the slow decline of the paramount economic position of the United States post WW II. For those of us in the “Baby Boomer” generation, we are filled with despair generally at seeing the usual growth of economic wellbeing through our work efforts resulting in less and less retirement age security. For our children, we see little hope, under current economic policy conditions to be able, through their work to afford the housing, access to medical care, access to improving their knowledge skills through higher education. There is justified frustration/anger resulting from the economic stress and this evidences itself through our social stress. Not seeing hope, those who supported Trump in 2016, wanted to believe in his promises to address the needs and clean out the swamp of those who had brought on the economic stress (unfortunately, they did not read/study Trump’s historical background or they would have seen a record of a man far out of his depth to be given such a government position). What alternative was offered by the other major party candidate … more of the same policies that have brought on the stress. Unless the mass of American working middle class citizen voters turn out to support a raising of the minimum wage, instituting a national healthcare program like all other developed democratic countries provide for their citizens, lowering the costs of gaining more knowledge through higher education (benefiting both individuals and American business) and protecting Social Security/Medicare … I predict the madness will continue as there will be no needed relief for the working middle class upon which and hope of a participatory democracy depends.

Thoughtful post, thank you.

In order to win the battle for this vote - the vote of the disillusioned working middle class, and indeed also those in the UK we might call the better off working class, you need scapegoats. The cries of "Drain the swamp" "Lock her up" "Build a wall" illustrate three. Similar scapegoats with xenophobic EU hatred, hatred and fear of immigrants, and despising people less fortunate than you, were all alive and well in the Brexit campaign, and very cleverly targeted in a similar way. The opposition in 2016 and 2019 (UK) were useless. The tragedy in all of this was that we (Baby boomers) thought we had built an education system, which would help people make rational decisions on political issues. What we see instead is frighteningly large proportion of voters acting close to a mindless mob from the Middle Ages.

6 hours ago, tebee said:

Problem for businesses is we are 69 days away from the end of transition and we are still not sure what the new rules are, they are only just now being published.

 

Those that are knowen are pretty crazy!

 

Brexit has never shifted it's focus from hatred of the EU to working out what sort of country we want to be outside the EU. Because of this it will fail.

Well I guess this hits the nail on the head. "Brexit has never shifted it's focus from hatred of the EU to working out what sort of country we want to be outside the EU".  Is it utterly pathetic, tragic, or just merely sad, to see the TV Brexiteers awash with hatred towards the EU, and bitterness towards fellow countrymen who voted remain because they just don't happen to see things the same way that they do. 

If they were actually mature,  leavers would forget about the EU. Why spend the rest of your days with a monster chip on your shoulder, consumed with anger and bitterness about all the imagined injustices that have been heaped on you by the wicked Europeans - it is hardly going to make for a happy life.

 You won, you are leaving, surely you should be happily contemplating all the wonderful benefits that are going to come to you in an EU free future. 

36 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

When you want to do business with the EU , it must be according the laws of the EU, and when disputes, under the courts of the EU. As with any country. Only the British still think, Britannia does not only rule the waves, but also the land around it.

Yes I agree as regards a relatively small country like the UK. However, you will note that when the US were in negotiations with the EU, the US insisted that all disputes be settled in US courts. The EU told them to take a running jump. Negotiations have stalled I believe.

It is simple, if the UK want access to the single market then they will have to abide by the rules and regs of that market. There are sadly some people around,  whose brains are tiny enough,  to let them believe that the UK is the equal of the EU. In trade terms for a start,  it would be obvious to a blind wombat, that it isn't.

I still expect a no deal Brexit, though I would be glad to be proved wrong. Too many friends of Boris and the Tory grandees have shorted the pound depending on it, so we are told. Again I would like to be proved wrong. 

41 minutes ago, RayC said:

You might be surprised to learn that I agree 100% with your comment ...  but .. there should be an addendum: The EU is equally not obliged to submit to Johnson's demands for a Canada type deal. 

Yes.......a short study of a map should be enough to inform ardent supporters of a Canada deal, that Britain is not exactly in the same geographical position vis a vis the EU as Canada. As has been said countless times before why would anyone want a free trade deal with an unregulated low wage tax haven just off their shores with the freedom to undercut them at every point. 

If the EU were to say "Have your no deal Brexit, and forget selling us your financial services" who could blame them. It would deal a huge body blow to the UK economy, although some think a few fish are more important.

On that point, no deal might suit Macron, hard to understand why he has shown no inclination to compromise here, domestic politics maybe. 

It is sad to read through 5 pages of petty bickering, with only a rare reference to the actual topic. 

These businesses represent 7 million workers for heaven's sakes. Do we despise their views so much that we rush to ignore them, as in Boris's infamous "(deleted) business" statement.   Who ever the businesses are ultimately owned by, do you imagine that they don't want to make a profit?

Ah yes the holy "Man in the street", we must all bow down and worship him. Unfortunately this pathetic uncritical worship has now led us to mob rule. 

But who cares, looks like we would rather destroy our economy and go to hell in a hand cart in pursuit of our sacred Brexit, than at least listening to the views of the people who actually make the money for UK plc.

I cannot imagine any other PM in my lifetime who would not have enough common sense, let alone brains, to at least engage in dialogue with such a large proportion of British business.

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yeah, and if we exclude trade with other countries from the UK, the EU is your one and only market. I’m really wondering how your business has been able to survive given your lack of analytical skills. Anyway, thanks for your comment — I will add it to my list of favorite Brexiteer quotes, just next to “they need us more than we need them because there’s a trade deficit.” 

Yes it's a great quote, and illustrates perfectly how focussing on one minor issue can make you incapable of seeing the broader picture. 

However we are wasting our time, Brexit has become a religion with sacred beliefs, such as the transubstantiation of the flesh! We are dealing with fundamentalists here, many of them on TV it appears. People who believe that Islam justifies sacrifice for Allah, are the same type as those who believe that Brexit justifies failing to get a trade deal, and defaulting to an economy destroying hard Brexit. 

Who wins from a UK economy ruined by Brexit and Covid? Well...... London is already one of the biggest tax avoidance capital cities in the world, that should give us a start.

 Boris is no idealist, he never really cared about Brexit one way or the other, he is a careerist, the question remains who is going to line his pockets? 

42 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

There is a lot of anger over these latest restrictions, some saying it won't make any difference and some saying that it isn't hard enough.  Either way it is clear that it just causes more chaos and economic pain.  It is obvious that the government is waiting for a viable vaccine and until then are faffing about and getting nowhere.

The whole thing beggars belief. This is not a political point, but Starmer spoke sanely and sensibly about the need for a "Circuit breaker"for 2/3 weeks, right or wrong is it sooo hard to put forward a reasoned argument? This guy Jenrick, - already established as a crook who bypassed planning rules to take £5 million away from a cash strapped local council,  and save vile "Tit and Bum" man Desmond of the Express from paying tax - thinks that Cornish pasty with the right sort of chips turns a pub into a restaurant. Jesus wept, thousands are dying of Covid and we are reduced to arguing about this.

5 hours ago, Silurian said:

Donald is just getting slaughtered in the betting averages now. It seems to be Biden's election to lose. Biden got a clear bump after the first debate and then again after Donald claimed being infected with COVID-19.

 

Maybe Donald should have worn that Superman T-shirt under and ripped his button-down shirt to expose it after being let out of the hospital. It would be nice to see yet another bump for Biden!

 

Betting Odds U.S. President 2020

 

This really should sum it up for anybody who understands betting trends. There are many Trumpers out there desperately clinging onto a last possible straw of hope,  that their glorious messiah might still pull something out of the bag. Sorry, don't waste your time, the bookies are hardly ever wrong by anything remotely approaching this amount. For a long time it was still worth a flutter on 45, because the odds were good, finally the mass of punters have accepted that the possibility has gone.  Three weeks to go and the crazed DT is still sinking his own boat every time he opens his vast mouth. 

Once DT goes what long term prospect for the other shallow petty populist leaders like Boris and Victor.  The tide of evil is turning back, and there is renewed hope for a more decent world.  

10 hours ago, bendejo said:

Aside from the failure itself the bigger strike against Pence is that he didn't really run it, he let the orange guy do what he wanted and proved himself spineless.  So when it failed DT had his dummy fall guy to pin it on.  He doesn't have what it takes to be a leader.  If he should inherit the presidency his party would be in charge, he's just the face and the empty suit.  Most of these GOP guys in Congress are the same way.  You don't have to be smart to be a Republican politician. 

 

As I heard a history teacher say "the big difference between JFK and LBJ was that Johnson understood why it was good to have some stupid people on your side."

 

 

Yes I agree here, Pence was set up to be the fall guy. Pence did and achieved nothing, but wasn't allowed to anyway by DT's reptilian inner circle (Nepotism is wonderful if your sons are not morons). That does not of course stop Harris targeting Pence on the issue, too much of a gift really.

DT achieved less than nothing, his phony pseudoscience, sheer ignorance, pedalling of fake cures, and much else, has been a deadly curse on his country. It is striking that the seriously heavy duty steroids he is said to be taking, would not normally be administered to a patient who was not seriously unwell. Is it too late for the GOP to chose anyone other than Pence as a replacement for the election at this stage?

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

When it is part of your country you lease it never give it away permanently. We are claiming it back, so better get use to it.

It doesn't matter what it is part of, your country or anything else. The fishing rights were OWNED by the fishing companies. The English ones SOLD over 50% of them to someone else, it doesn't matter who. They didn't  LEASE them, or "Give them away".  Unless you don't understand your native language, there is a difference between selling something and leasing it. Candide explained that the whole quota thing it is more complicated, but the part we sold, we can't get back, we can buy it back if it is for sale of course. There are some parts of the overall quota that could be returned, that is different. 

14 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Clearly, in your case and in the specific area of UK fishing quotas, you did NOT know what you were voting for as your posts here show you think the UK has some sort of claim on quotas the Government gave to British fishermen who then sold them.

 

PH

I think it is probably hopeless. I have tried to explain this to those who drone on about fishing quotas time and again on these threads. We had them, the rights were distributed mainly to the five large owners of UK fishing. Over 50% of these rights were sold by them to continental fishing companies. 

We can negotiate all we like, it is not going to get us back something we have sold - why should it. 

11 minutes ago, kingdong said:

ooooo la la.

I have never met a French person who said oooo la la in my life, maybe you should re-assess your stereotypes, this one is hopelessly jaded.