4 hours ago, sungod said:

UK Governments economic response has been extremely generous, too generous IMHO. The problem lies when Westminster makes these funds available , yet they are held back by the Scottish Government. 'Disgraceful, putting lives at risk' was how it was described by the largest trade union.

 

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/may/unite-scotland-says-lives-at-risk-as-additional-155m-covid-19-funds-for-local-authorities-still-not-released/

How generous the UK gov response has been is a matter of debate. It appears to be well short of the EU package, for a start. Your view that it may be too generous is a fair one to make. The money will have to be paid back by taxpayers. However that includes Scottish ones, so the idea that Scotland is getting a generous gift from Westminster is inaccurate - to be polite. Hasn't stopped Johnson tempting to exploit it though.

Unite - lead by Corbyn puppeteer and ardent Europhobe Len the gross - you trying to make me laugh? They are not the largest Union in Scotland (Or the UK) which is Unison. Unison have recently supported a 2nd referendum. Unite have been Cobynite labour under McClusky. Len has no time for the SNP,  he has been too busy packing the NEC with his Stazi left placepersons, and pulling Cobyn's strings. Not an unbiased source IMHO.

The article is twisted in summary, but simply says that the SNP want council budgets for the expenditure. That doesn't mean that councils can't spend any of the money. They can borrow it on the basis it will arrive in due course, as every business with an order book does all the time.

34 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

My comment is less about the death rates themselves than about the refusal of the English to look just a few miles north or west and ask why the situations there are so very different. 

 

In the whole of July, the deaths in the UK from COVID are:

 

Scotland - 9

Wales - 38

N Ireland - 5

England - 1,772

 

What has happened that this doesn't even make headline news any longer? Why is nobody seemingly trying to work out why this should be the case?

The MSM down south, Beeb in particular, have always talked about the UK figures in order to avoid the embarrassment of showing up England's dismal performance. 

There is bound to be some truth in the population density argument, but for Scotland the proportion of people living outside of the packed central belt is pretty small. Sturgeon was right IMO to take the reopen move very cautiously.

Having returned home for work from CM, where I was for 4+months, I was utterly astonished to find out that only very recently have they insisted on masks in shops here. The restrictions in Thailand started months ago, and you still get your temperature taken as you enter even small supermarkets there, and the province has been Covid free for over 2 months. I never heard any idiocy in Thailand about masks restricting personal freedom. 

If they can do it why on earth can't we? Any ideas of superiority that a number of TV folk appear to harbour,  is cast into doubt.

1 hour ago, vogie said:

For once I'm in total agreement with Mrs Sturgeons priorities, she has re-opened the pubs but kept gyms closed, such foresight.????????????

A bit lame Vogie - England have had the pubs open for a while, and the BBC News today says gyms are being re-opened there.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Are these the same Dutch that just capitulated in the post covid wealth transfer scheme?

 

I suggest you focus on that bailout payment for the southern nations. It's way more than any fishing rights in our waters.

Yes it is a post Covid rebuilding settlement, though describing it as a bailout payment for the southern nations is misleading. Italy and Spain suffered the worst from Covid (Apart from the UK) and they happen to be in the south of Europe.

If the Irish and Dutch (Maybe Luxembourg as well?) are paying above the odds that may reflect that they have been leaching of the EU by providing tax havens to US (Mainly) multinationals.

The UK as a world capital of tax avoidance is in a different league altogether. The rich just adore us, although industries that want tariff free, and paperwork free access to the vast EU market not so much.

19 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

 

Who knows. I'm not on the inside, but like all negociations there will have to be give on both sides.

 

No sign of give anything at all from Boris. We just need to wait and see what Dominic tells him to do next.

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Its all going wrong isn't it guys.

We were on top of the world. Brexit had won. We were taking back control. 

We played Big Ben on a cassette recorder in Parliament square because the real Big Ben was broken or something on our independence day. Now to sit back as the EU capitulated to all our demands because they need us more than we need them. Easiest trade deal in history.

Lets get brexit done. Johnson is the man to do it. Hes just like Churchill. 

Wait. What? The EU is sticking to its policy which has been consistent from the very beginning?

Don't worry the EU is going to collapse any day now. Then we will stride across the world like a colossus. Other nations will beg us for trade deals. Empire 2.0. Hold on. Why is that not happening? Don't they know we are British? Dunkirk man. The greatest victory in the history of the world. OK we had to sacrifice the 51st Highland division to succeed in our tactical withdrawal but it was the plucky Brits what won it.

Why were we not warned about any of this?

Its OK men. Stand firm. When its all looking bad and the future of the UK is bleak remember this.

Immigration. Yes. When the faithful start to question if Brexit is a good idea after all given how its going just remind them of all those Johnny foreigners waiting like Hyenas to come into the UK.

We dont need them. We can pick our own fruit and veg. Well when I say we I mean someone else can. I aint doing it for that rubbish money.

Ignore the damage being done to the country and remember. We are the patriots.

 

p.s. Putin sends hugs.

 

Post of the week.

Huzzah, huzzah, English exceptionalism triumphs, the world looks forward to welcoming a free Britain into it's loving arms. Who says they will take advantage of us, we are the master race, they will respect that.

Ironically for English nationalists,  it is impossible to be "Free of the Germans". The English have more Anglo Saxon (German/Danish tribes) DNA than anything else, some 60% including "Western Europe" (Northern France Germany and Netherlands). Around 20% British/Celtic DNA in England, but much more in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland, of course.   

14 hours ago, Traubert said:

'Britain is pursuing trade deals with other countries'

 

With all the grace of a rhino in heat.

A wonderful image, unfortunately it brought to mind David Frost, and Mark Francois, and I will have to delay my evening meal!

14 hours ago, vogie said:

And who do we have to thank for that, if the remainers hadn't tried to stifle the democratic decision of the referendum we would have been out 2 years ago and saved a fortune. Well done to all the remainers for costing our country a hefty price, and for what?

Vogie, congratulations you have your Brexit, enjoy it as long as it is possible to do so. It is yours, all yours, every bit of it good and bad, belongs to you, to you the triumph and the glory. 

But did something go wrong? I thought it was all supposed to be wonderful. However here is a great idea......... all the good things that happen with Brexit belong to Brexiteers, and you can blame all the bad things on the awful Remainers who had the nerve to stick to their guns and exercise their freedom of speech (I guess that's Democracy ????) . Is that your plan for the future, because for sure one day soon, the brown stuff will hit the fan big time, and what went before will just be window dressing? 

Sorry life ain't like that, if you accept the credit, then you have to accept the responsibility when things go wrong, it is called being grown up.

The Tories have never been out of power since the referendum, it shouldn't take a genius to work out who has been to blame for any "Little Brexit mishaps" so far. 

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The point is that the EU is an unnecessary leech.

So do you really honestly believe - despite the views of an overwhelming majority of financial experts- that the UK will be better off economically outside the EU? 

Who are we going to sell the 48% of our exports to that formerly went to the EU. Our balance of payments is grim already? 

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Got to say I have to admire the stamina of those commenting on this topic from the intelligent, well constructed arguments of Remain supporters right through to the rantings of the brain damaged little Englanders hell bent on destroying the UK.

You have to understand that they think of themselves as "Patriots", although you might be forgiven for thinking, that people who set about destroying the economy of their own country, would be better labelled traitors.

They suffer from "Grand mal" delusions, like the idea that the EU will collapse without the UK contributions, when Brexit has already cost us nearly as much in lost GDP as our entire contributions to the EU from the start. (Bloomberg). Given that the UK has survived that cost, how big an impact will it have on the EU - UK is only around 14% of the EU economy - obviously much much less (Primary school maths).

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson wants Mays deal but with ALL the compromises made to the EU removed.

The EU is never going to accept that.

Ergo we will be leaving with no deal.

The only thing that will be agreed upon is EU access to UK fishing waters in exchange for passporting rights for the City of London financial services. 

My impression is that Johnson would prefer May's deal as he still has enough brain cells left to work out that a no deal would be catastrophic financially, and he would like to remain in power. On the other hand the reptilian career sociopath Cummings - who holds Boris's reins - won't have it, he is an ideologue, and possibly working for Putin (As of course all Brexiteers have been indirectly). 

I expect the EU will not swap a deal on fishing for one on financial services. Some EU countries already own a good chunk of our fishing anyway, and it is tiny compared with what UK stands to lose through financial services. They are getting tired with Brexit, and the little Englanders' bombastic flag waving that goes with it. Why let London keep the vast majority of financial business that could be in Paris, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam? Our pompous, thuggish, self important approach to negotiations, has won no friends, and only makes our utterly deluded assessment of our value to them more apparent. 

When I read "They need us more than we need them" I just think,  for heaven's sake get a brain.

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

snip

When did we have a vote asking us if we wanted a vote on the final deal, that's correct we didn't, all that was on the leave pamphlet was leave or remain. You lost!

 

 

You won the referendum (I guess you have to keep repeating that because nobody else knows!!)

However everyone lost, it is just that many Brexit fans are incapable of seeing the vast economic damage already caused, and further the looming economic disaster fast arriving (Even before taking Covid into account). Whether this is because they are simply incapable of, or unwilling to do the research, or whether it is because they are in a state of denial, and only believe what they want to believe, or something else, I don't know.

However there is one thing for sure - there are nane sae blind as those that canna see. In what deluded mindset do people have to exist in order to believe that everything in the garden is rosy. 

"You won the battle but you lost the war" (Leon Rosselson) indeed we all did. 

I posted in this thread a guide to various Brexit losses before, but any research in serious Financial papers such as the FT, Economist, Bloomberg, and many more, will tell the same story. These are papers for the money men, they don't care about politics and ideology, only money. 

2 hours ago, bannork said:

  5 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Not for you.

Tough luck that.

That's democracy for you........................ winners and losers.

You are not in the winners enclosure.

3 hours ago, bannork said:

So, what have you won?

Sadly Brexiteers have been reduced to saying "We won, we won, we won", and "Democracy, democracy, democracy".  Nothing else much that they can say really. 

It is becoming more and more obvious, to many in the UK, if not on TV,  that the crock of gold they were promised has turned into a crock of manure. An economic disaster looms, Brexit has already cost us through loss of GDP near what our ENTIRE EU contributions have been since we joined. (Bloomberg).

That lefty rag the Financial Times has this to say. 

The economic cost of Brexit was laid bare on Wednesday by Britain's official budget watchdog, which warned that leaving the EU would hit growth, exports and the public finances at a time of rising uncertainty. Against a backdrop of coronavirus and slowing global growth, the Office for Budget Responsibility modelled for a 5.2 per cent loss of potential GDP over 15 years if a typical free trade agreement was struck. The watchdog said that Britain had already lost 2 per cent of potential output since the 2016 Leave vote with a further 3.2 per cent to come, blaming rising trade friction, restrictions on migration and red tape.

https://www.ft.com/content/72938c66-638f-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68

The article is sobering.

Oh sorry, I forgot about blue passports, huzzah, huzzah.

38 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I really don't understand why you keep poking your nose in here - it is none of your business what happens to the UK. Let us deal with that and you trot off and don't concern yourself unnecessarily Try and get a life that doesn't involve you having to keep coming back with snide remarks.  Move on.

These forums are open to all members, Brexit related forums don't belong to Brits. Many Brits regularly comment on US topics.

If a poster is incapable of arguing rationally with someone posting views that they disagree with, it would be less embarrassing to them, if they keep it to themselves, rather than attacking the messenger, in this case in a rude and dismissive manner. 

Since the UK leaving the EU has an economic effect on all Europeans, including us, and will continue to do so,  this statement "it is none of your business what happens to the UK." is daft.