CMBob

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 ....The law also specifies that the responsibility for filing lies with the landlord/house master not the alien though granted the consequences fall onto the alien if they need to use Imm services and no TM 30 on file.

A bit puzzled by that conclusion and omission of rather clear language in the law. That law places equal responsibility on three (not two) entities/persons:  the house-master or the owner or the possessor.  If the "alien" isn't the possessor, who is?  

9 hours ago, Small Joke said:

I found this looking for a similar  answer. 

Live in CM. Done the initial report TM30 and then got my 1st annual extension of retirement. Left the country last week with Re entry permit. Returned Friday and stayed in a hotel in BKK. 

Returned to to my home address in CM Saturday night. 

Do I need to do another TM30 or just the next 90 day report dated  from my Friday return. Thanks. 

Since you have re-entered the country and now have returned to your already TM30 registered address, CM Immigration expects you to update your TM30 filing.  Two different officers have told me that updating within 4-5 days is acceptable (versus the 24-hour requirement mentioned in the law itself).  So yes, you need to update.

[To update, you simply take yourself and your passport (with the TM6 in it and hopefully your TM30 Receipt of Notification) and they will enter a couple of items on their computer (likely your new entry date and new departure card number) and then put a new date stamp on your TM30 Receipt of Notification.]

22 hours ago, beddhist said:

....the way I understand the law....

Best to ignore what the law says and simply find out how your local Immigration office applies it.  All (or many) of the Immigration offices in the various provinces treat the whole TM30 business quite differently....some not even bothering with it and others strictly enforcing it by requiring updating within 24 hours of being away from your registered address (regardless of where you went).

With many posters making a TM30 inquiry or comment without referencing what province they're talking about, the discussion ends up with confusing and contradictory advice.

In Chiangmai, they are requiring a TM30 to be filed for your residence and they are currently requiring updating when you return to your registered residence only after you re-enter the country (i.e., you don't have to update regardless of how long you're gone in-country).  As for the TM28, almost all of those that have been tried to be filed here are handed back with a comment that they don't want them.  Now, as to how even Chiangmai (or any other province) will apply the law next month, your guess is as good as mine.

4 hours ago, steve73 said:

As I understand it, even if you were able to register at CM Imm on your first arrival, once you have then stayed in Pattaya (and assuming the hotel registered you there) then legally you should re-register again on your return to CM. 

Whether CM actually require you to do this I have no idea, but there was a report a few months ago from a Phuket Immigration officers recommending that you re-registered whenever you have been away from your home province for more than 24 hours.  

CM Immigration so far is requiring updating (presuming you're returning to your TM30 registered address) ONLY if you're returning from abroad.  No updating is currently required if you've been traveling within Thailand regardless of the time you're gone from your TM30 registered address in Chiangmai province.  This information applies to CM Immigration (what other provinces do is beyond me). 

You shouldn't have a problem.  Two different officers have told me that doing the updating within 4-5 days is acceptable and, given your circumstances, you should be okay.

In answer to a couple of your other questions:

(1)  Everything is moved to the new (old) office near the Airport and that's where you do the updating.

(2)  You only need your passport (with the your new departure card).  Nothing else is needed.  Presuming you've got your TM30 Receipt of Notification stapled in your passport, the staff will enter a bit of info (likely the new entry date and new departure card number) on their computer and place a new date stamp on your existing Receipt of Notification (or, if it's full of stamps or a bit shredded, they'll print out a new one for you). 

Don't believe you can update in Chon Buri as Chiangmai is your registered address.

I have little clue as to the  "point" of all this given their computer already knows your registered address and given you've confirmed that again on the arrival card you just handed them.  

Presuming a TM30 has been filed for your "home" address and you leave the country and return to that same address (as the OP seems to imply), I don't believe any new TM30 report needs to be filed; however, you do need to update it by going to Immigration yourself (they'll enter some data....likely new departure card number and dates...and put a new date stamp on your TM Receipt of Notification if you have it) or by having whoever filed the TM30 for you do the updating. 

As noted, just make sure you can withdraw the funds at any time (although, also as noted, you'll lose all accrued interest if you grab the funds ahead of the maturity date....although the banks do have similar accounts that let you occasionally withdraw some of the funds without loss of interest).  Whenever my "visa/extension" account matures and I end up setting up another longer-term deposit, I always ask if the account they are proposing qualifies for the annual Immigration letter (if so, it should be fine).  This info is good for Chiangmai Immigration (I have no clue about the other province offices).

3 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

We've done our 90-day reports by mail for the last few years. But I heard that they will/have moved to Airport, and so wondered if the mail-in address had changed. I've since learned that you can mail the 90-day reports to either address.

Before and after most of Immigration moved to Promenada, I've used the same "airport road" address for the mail-in address.  The address is for the old site but presume the Post Office gets it to the right location.  The traditional address has been (you don't need the bracketed info in Thai):

Notify 90 Days                                   

Chiangmai Immigration

71 Moo 3,  Sanambin Road                

[71 หมู่ที่ 3  ถ.สนามบิน]                                               

T. Suthep,  A. Muang                          
Chiang Mai, Thailand  50200

21 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

Look, the source of this information on all of these points is the a) the official instruction sheet that the Promenada office gave me AND b) verbal conformation by the immigration officer who handled my application at Promenada. 

Perhaps better to rely upon information from people who've actually been there and done that.  Some day you'll get there....hopefully.  

10 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

 Regarding updated bank books, IO's have told me they want to see an updated bank book that is no older than 1 business day (i.e.: If you come on a Monday, you could do the update on the preceding Friday).  It makes sense.  You could easily have a bankbook that said you had over 800,000 baht and a letter to match that were dated a week ago, and then simply withdraw funds without the paper bank book being updated (for example, electronic transfer of funds). 

 

Also note, the Chon Buri (Pattaya) Imm office is now requiring the update be done on the same day as the application, so a cautious assumption is that other offices may adopt a similar policy in the near future.

 

Regarding source of funds, Funds totaling at least 800,000 baht must be documented as coming from outside of Thailand.   

Please stop posting information as to what's required for an annual extension based on whatever anyone told you about your prior local conversion to a Non-O visa.    Would note:

(1)  Only one set of documents is required for the annual extension.  Not two.

(2)  For those who rely on the 800k in the bank to support an extension based on retirement, there is no requirement that you update your passbook just before you apply for the extension.  For example, for those who keep the 800k in a separate bank account, that's often in a term account and no updating is even available even if one asked for it.  I've obtained annual extensions for years with a passbook that reflects the last entry was 6-18 months prior.

(3)  Regardless of what's required for your initial process, there is no requirement (when extending annually based on retirement with the 800k bank method) to show any proof that the 800k came from "outside of Thailand."  Although my 800k did originally come from funds in the US years ago (as in a decade ago), there is nothing at all in my passbook which reflects the source of the funds.  All they want to see is (a) the bank letter verifying you have at least 800k on deposit and (b) a copy of your passbook reflecting an amount which matches the bank letter amount and which also reflects that at least 800k has been there continuously for 3 months (or 2 months for the first annual extension). 

Also, it would help to eliminate confusion (given this is the Chiangmai forum) if people would stop posting here what other provinces require (or, at times, what they incorrectly think another provinces require) for an annual extension.   

43 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I've never done a TM-30 in the 13 years + I have been here...what's my secret? 

Presuming you live and extend annually in Chiangmai province, your secret is pure luck (and/or somebody, perhaps a condo office, filed one for you). 

4 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

 

 Two (2) copies.......  

.......Copy of "updated" bank book.   The bank book must be updated by the bank no more than one (1) business day prior to the date you intend to file your TM.7 application, showing that 800,000 baht has been on deposit with the bank for at least 90 days; all funds must be from outside of Thailand (this is indicated by a 3-digit code in most bank books deposit entries).  

My comments relate only to the usual annual extension based on retirement with the 800k bank method and I'd note:

(1)  As long as your passbook shows the same amount as the bank letter, that's adequate.  There's no requirement that the bankbook itself must be "updated" at any particular time period.  For example only, this year I obtained my annual extension at the end of April and the 800k was in a separate term account that began last September and matures this coming December (i.e., a 13-month term).  For such an account, no updating is even available (at least at SCB) and the last entry was September of 2017.  And it was fine.  The key is the amounts must match.

(2)  Again, for the normal annual extension, only one set of the various documents is required to be presented.  

[I limit my comments to the "usual annual extension" as there are times that your posts indicate that what you're doing isn't exactly the usual thing.  Perhaps (although I doubt it) there are different requirements now in CM for somebody who's locally converted to a Non-O and then goes for their annual extension the first time.]

[And, to avoid further confusion about my comment about a "term account", the banks do have term accounts that are acceptable to Immigration as one can withdraw the funds at any time (although withdrawing earlier than the maturity date would cause a loss of accrued interest).  A term account that wouldn't allow withdrawal until a given maturity date would not be acceptable to Immigration.]

13 minutes ago, stament said:

What's the average time for TM30 reporting? 

If you're talking about updating (after you've returned from out of country), I've done that only once at Promenada (upstairs) and that took about an hour (most of it waiting my turn).  I've updated many times at Building #3 at the old site and that's never taken longer than 10 minutes (typically about 5 minutes). 

The need for a letter from an embassy/consulate apparently depends on the given province.   At Chiangmai Immigration last September, I had my stamps transferred to my new passport and I had no embassy/consulate letter and nobody at Immigration even asked about one.

(I would note that I got the new passport while I was in the US last summer so perhaps it makes a difference where you are when the new passport is issued?)

5 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

With the Non-O you must do it at least 21 days before visa expiration in Chiang Mai since the processing is done in Bangkok.  Are you sure that isn't the case with the annual extension as well?  I'm almost certain I read it was recommended to do it at least 30 days before but I can't find the source for that in my notes.

Yes, I'm sure......the time limit to apply for an annual extension based on retirement at CM Immigration (which is what you posted and guessed about) is anywhere from 45 days to 1 day prior to expiration of one's 90-day Non O or one's last annual extension  [and there is some very anecdotal evidence....which nobody should rely on....that it's actually possible to extend at least a few days after expiration in some Immigration offices as mentioned by Nancy above (but whether CM Immigration might actually do that is unknown to me)].  Respectfully, there'd be less confusion about Immigration procedures if people would stop posting guesses about things or even information that isn't based on actual experience. 

3 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

 

As for timing of the application, my understanding is that you can submit the application up to 45 days before expiration of the Non-O visa, but not less than 30 days before expiration.

Does that sound right?

One can at CM Immigration (it's not the same in all provinces) obtain the annual extension based on retirement 45 days before the expiration date but there is no "minimum" time limit (one could do it the very last day although that would be foolish in the event that no queue number was available for that day).  

1 hour ago, Kohsamida said:

Truth is, I'm seriously thinking of taking a "vacation" to Jomtien and get my extension down there, and then coming back to Chiang Mai.  It seems ridiculous to think of doing that but it's making more and more sense.

Sounds like a good idea but I don't believe you can obtain an extension at any province other than where your registered address is located.  If we were allowed to do that here, a whole lot of Chiangmai expats would be dropping into the Immigration offices in surrounding provinces (Lampang, Lamphun, etc.) once a year to avoid the terrible service offered by the local office.

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Those who "feed the system" by using agents are denying others the ability to have a functioning immigration office like they seem to have in other provinces.  

Okay, I understand your oft-repeated position but please answer one question:  What leads you to believe that everyone stopping the use of agents would make things better (versus worse) at CM Immigration?  

2 hours ago, Mapguy said:

 Question:  What is the current requirement based on actual experience?

 

In either case, I assume that photos should be taken on a blue background in order to be acceptable.

As the forms state, it's 4cm by 6cm.  And it should be noted that the printed box on the form is a fair amount smaller than the required photo size.

Background.  Medium blue will be accepted.  There have been a few reports in the past that photos without the blue background were rejected although there also were a lot of reports saying that other backgrounds (white, for example) were accepted without comment.  But safest is probably the medium blue background as there have been no reports of those being rejected. 

9 hours ago, AJA1089 said:

Sent my TM 47 by mail on 28 May 2018. Now 7 June  and have not received return receipt and my TM 90 expired 6 June. I sent TM by registered mail.

While I've had some mailed-in 90-day reports returned in 4-5 days, at least a couple have taken a couple of weeks.  If you don't get it back within a couple of weeks (I've read that they want people to wait 30 days before showing up about it), then you'll have to truck out to Promenada with your EMS slip and tell them you never got the TM47 Notice of Receipt back in the mail.  Absent something unusual, they'll check their records and promptly print you out one to place in your passport.

1 hour ago, grin said:

....Years ago just to be sure I asked an officer at Chiang Mai immigration if I should be getting an extension based on retirement if I was still working and he said, yes, and that I only needed to be over 50 years old to get that type of extension. So I'm guessing that this was more of a one off as my income did not look normal to the officer.

I'm presuming that you're working outside of Thailand because you're not allowed to be working in Thailand with a retirement visa/extension.  Given the likelihood of perplexing an Immigration officer in the future (any combination of a retirement extension and the word "working" is likely going to put some officer on alert), I'd suggest you not offer any comment about working unless, of course, you're point blank asked about it (and then you should reply accurately). 

4 hours ago, grin said:

Went in to get my retirement extension and for the first time since I turned 50 the officer would not accept my US Consulate income affidavit without supporting documentation. Fortunately I live fairly close by so I drove home and printed the latest statements and circled the monthly income amounts. When I gave the 20 or so pages of printout to the officer he barely looked at it. He just kind of leafed through it and asked me to sign at the bottom of every page and stapled my income affidavit to the front of it. Seemed like a waste of a half hour, gas, ink and paper.

No doubt this happened to you but it's the first report I've seen that CM Immigration wants backup documentation to support the income affidavit issued by the US Consulate.  Maybe it was just a one-off thing by that particular Immigration officer or maybe it's the start of a new enforcement matter because they've finally learned that the US Consulate/Embassy (contrary to what most other countries' consulates/embassies require) doesn't require any income verification documentation to enable them to essentially notarize the affidavit.  I guess we'll see if this is a new thing for US citizens (or, perhaps, other non-US citizen expats) or if it was just that one officer giving you a hard time.

59 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

I am not saying it would be enforced only that the law exists

The problem with your first post, the one that started this (so far) 9 pages of questioning and partial alarm, is that you posted information that likely relates only to the Immigration office in your particular province while inferring it applied to everyone everywhere.   Had you said that this was happening only in your province and then accurately added that you don't have a clue if other provinces are enforcing the law the same way, you would have avoided some of the grief you've been shoveled.

What's being enforced at the Immigration office in your province is not the same as the Immigration offices in other provinces.  For example only (this information applies ONLY to Chiangmai Immigration), enforcement is only happening with respect to any TM30  if one needs an extension of some type (e.g., no enforcement when doing 90-day reports), no updating is required unless one leaves Thailand and returns to the same address (if returning to a new address, of course the whole TM30 filing requirements start over again), and updating can be done within 4-5 days of returning to the country (they're not currently strictly enforcing the 24-hour rule). 

With respect to the OP's comment about entry stamps into the US,  don't worry about that as there are none for US citizens.  They just swipe the passport into their computer system and place no markings whatsoever within the passport.  I have no clue how we US citizens would ever prove when we re-entered the US other than indirectly through guessing from an exit stamp from another country or via some boarding pass; on the other hand, I'm doubtful we'd ever have the need to prove a date of re-entry (nobody has ever asked me that question after I've re-entered 40-50 times).