CMBob

On 7/11/2018 at 11:33 AM, silverhawk_usa said:

Here is the misperception that I see repeated over and over on this issue.  The affidavit that one gets from the U.S. Consulate is in no way proof of your income.    YOU are taking an oath and signing a document that states YOU swear to the amount of income YOU claim.  The Consulate is only giving you, and certifying the oath and affidavit.  The U.S. Consulate is not guaranteeing anything. 

Agree although the Consulate is guaranteeing that the person (name and passport number) is in fact the person who signed the document.  The form itself contains no language at all that a consulate or embassy is verifying any of the substantive information in the affidavit itself.  I have no idea how most countries decided to make a signer present proof of the income they claim in the affidavit but, for whatever reason, the US has not done that.

And, until there are repeated reports of CM Immigration requiring US citizens (who rely on the income affidavit for their annual extension based on retirement) to present such proof to CM Immigration, I remain skeptical that there has been any general change of policy at CM Immigration about this.  Time will tell. 

11 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Does one need a letter from ones Embassy/Consul?...

No....at least I didn't need such a letter.  I didn't have one (maybe because I got the new passport when on a trip back to the US?) and CM Immigration didn't ask for it.

Twelve pages of ramblings because of a single report claiming CM Immigration has changed its usual procedure when presented with an income affidavit from the US citizens.  Unless and until more reports come in detailing the same treatment, best to move on and presume no change has occurred.

Once in a while, a given immigration officer seems to ask for something different.  A couple of years ago, while renewing my annual extension at CM Immigration, the officer asked me for a photocopy of every single filled-out page of my passport (which was a lot of pages).  I asked her if she really wanted that and, when she said "yes", I reached into my folder and handed her a complete set of my passport pages (I take the kitchen sink with me as occasionally they will ask for something unusual).  Was this a change of policy?  Obviously not.  As to why she asked for it, god/buddha only knows.  The single event, however, didn't justify me in making a post here on TV titled  "Another Change For Annual Extenders."

3 hours ago, The Theory said:

How can I get the tax (interest earned from CD account tax) back from a Thai bank. ?

A bit off-topic for this thread.  But, if you're referring to the 15% of your earned interest that is withheld and sent by your bank to the Thai Treasury department, you can get all of that back (providing you don't have other income or issues here in Thailand) by obtaining a Thai tax identification number and then filing a Thai income tax return.  There have been threads on where/how to do that long ago....hopefully you can find them.

No, there's no fee.  It's currently accomplished at office #3 (the shop just to the left of the copy shop which is next to the main office in the basement at Promenada).  Based on my experience (last September), the document requirements (besides having your new and old passports with you) are as follows:

 1.  Form - Transfer Stamp to New Passport.  Completed, signed, and you need to write your telephone number in the space to the left of the signature line.  Please note that this form is Chiang Mai Immigration specific [you have to get the form from them as it apparently isn't offered online (they won't accept the one online form that refers to Bangkok Immigration)].

2.  Documents from old passport:

            a.  Photocopy of the photo page and every single filled-out page of your old passport.  Please note that they want all the copies to show the pages horizontally (intern got a bit bent out of shape about that as some of my page copies were copied vertically).  Sign your name on all the copies.  I didn't need a copy of any 90-day address Receipt or my TM30 Receipt (but you ought to have a copy on hand just in case).  Also take a copy of your current departure card if you obtained the passport while in Thailand (i.e., there is no new departure card in your new passport). 

3.  Documents from new passport:

            a.  If you got the new passport out of Thailand as I did, then you need a photocopy of photo page, page showing your entry stamp, and your new TM6 (departure card).  If you got your new passport within Thailand (i.e., there are no stamps at all in your new passport), then all you need is a copy of the new photo page.  Sign all copies.

The need for a letter from an embassy/consulate apparently depends on the given province.   At Chiangmai Immigration last September, I had my stamps transferred to my new passport and I had no embassy/consulate letter and nobody at Immigration even asked about one.

(I would note that I got the new passport while I was in the US last summer so perhaps it makes a difference where you are when the new passport is issued?)

How can the deal be both an "all inclusive price" and a "certain price per cubic meter?"  Unless the shippers came and measured all the goods ahead of time and then gave a fixed price for the total job without any reference to a price per cubic meter, the only question I'd have is whether is shipper is or isn't "fudging" with respect to the total number of cubic meters needed for the job.  

5 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

With the Non-O you must do it at least 21 days before visa expiration in Chiang Mai since the processing is done in Bangkok.  Are you sure that isn't the case with the annual extension as well?  I'm almost certain I read it was recommended to do it at least 30 days before but I can't find the source for that in my notes.

Yes, I'm sure......the time limit to apply for an annual extension based on retirement at CM Immigration (which is what you posted and guessed about) is anywhere from 45 days to 1 day prior to expiration of one's 90-day Non O or one's last annual extension  [and there is some very anecdotal evidence....which nobody should rely on....that it's actually possible to extend at least a few days after expiration in some Immigration offices as mentioned by Nancy above (but whether CM Immigration might actually do that is unknown to me)].  Respectfully, there'd be less confusion about Immigration procedures if people would stop posting guesses about things or even information that isn't based on actual experience. 

3 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

 

As for timing of the application, my understanding is that you can submit the application up to 45 days before expiration of the Non-O visa, but not less than 30 days before expiration.

Does that sound right?

One can at CM Immigration (it's not the same in all provinces) obtain the annual extension based on retirement 45 days before the expiration date but there is no "minimum" time limit (one could do it the very last day although that would be foolish in the event that no queue number was available for that day).  

1 hour ago, Kohsamida said:

Truth is, I'm seriously thinking of taking a "vacation" to Jomtien and get my extension down there, and then coming back to Chiang Mai.  It seems ridiculous to think of doing that but it's making more and more sense.

Sounds like a good idea but I don't believe you can obtain an extension at any province other than where your registered address is located.  If we were allowed to do that here, a whole lot of Chiangmai expats would be dropping into the Immigration offices in surrounding provinces (Lampang, Lamphun, etc.) once a year to avoid the terrible service offered by the local office.

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Those who "feed the system" by using agents are denying others the ability to have a functioning immigration office like they seem to have in other provinces.  

Okay, I understand your oft-repeated position but please answer one question:  What leads you to believe that everyone stopping the use of agents would make things better (versus worse) at CM Immigration?  

2 hours ago, Mapguy said:

 Question:  What is the current requirement based on actual experience?

 

In either case, I assume that photos should be taken on a blue background in order to be acceptable.

As the forms state, it's 4cm by 6cm.  And it should be noted that the printed box on the form is a fair amount smaller than the required photo size.

Background.  Medium blue will be accepted.  There have been a few reports in the past that photos without the blue background were rejected although there also were a lot of reports saying that other backgrounds (white, for example) were accepted without comment.  But safest is probably the medium blue background as there have been no reports of those being rejected. 

9 hours ago, AJA1089 said:

Sent my TM 47 by mail on 28 May 2018. Now 7 June  and have not received return receipt and my TM 90 expired 6 June. I sent TM by registered mail.

While I've had some mailed-in 90-day reports returned in 4-5 days, at least a couple have taken a couple of weeks.  If you don't get it back within a couple of weeks (I've read that they want people to wait 30 days before showing up about it), then you'll have to truck out to Promenada with your EMS slip and tell them you never got the TM47 Notice of Receipt back in the mail.  Absent something unusual, they'll check their records and promptly print you out one to place in your passport.

1 hour ago, grin said:

....Years ago just to be sure I asked an officer at Chiang Mai immigration if I should be getting an extension based on retirement if I was still working and he said, yes, and that I only needed to be over 50 years old to get that type of extension. So I'm guessing that this was more of a one off as my income did not look normal to the officer.

I'm presuming that you're working outside of Thailand because you're not allowed to be working in Thailand with a retirement visa/extension.  Given the likelihood of perplexing an Immigration officer in the future (any combination of a retirement extension and the word "working" is likely going to put some officer on alert), I'd suggest you not offer any comment about working unless, of course, you're point blank asked about it (and then you should reply accurately). 

4 hours ago, grin said:

Went in to get my retirement extension and for the first time since I turned 50 the officer would not accept my US Consulate income affidavit without supporting documentation. Fortunately I live fairly close by so I drove home and printed the latest statements and circled the monthly income amounts. When I gave the 20 or so pages of printout to the officer he barely looked at it. He just kind of leafed through it and asked me to sign at the bottom of every page and stapled my income affidavit to the front of it. Seemed like a waste of a half hour, gas, ink and paper.

No doubt this happened to you but it's the first report I've seen that CM Immigration wants backup documentation to support the income affidavit issued by the US Consulate.  Maybe it was just a one-off thing by that particular Immigration officer or maybe it's the start of a new enforcement matter because they've finally learned that the US Consulate/Embassy (contrary to what most other countries' consulates/embassies require) doesn't require any income verification documentation to enable them to essentially notarize the affidavit.  I guess we'll see if this is a new thing for US citizens (or, perhaps, other non-US citizen expats) or if it was just that one officer giving you a hard time.

59 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

I am not saying it would be enforced only that the law exists

The problem with your first post, the one that started this (so far) 9 pages of questioning and partial alarm, is that you posted information that likely relates only to the Immigration office in your particular province while inferring it applied to everyone everywhere.   Had you said that this was happening only in your province and then accurately added that you don't have a clue if other provinces are enforcing the law the same way, you would have avoided some of the grief you've been shoveled.

What's being enforced at the Immigration office in your province is not the same as the Immigration offices in other provinces.  For example only (this information applies ONLY to Chiangmai Immigration), enforcement is only happening with respect to any TM30  if one needs an extension of some type (e.g., no enforcement when doing 90-day reports), no updating is required unless one leaves Thailand and returns to the same address (if returning to a new address, of course the whole TM30 filing requirements start over again), and updating can be done within 4-5 days of returning to the country (they're not currently strictly enforcing the 24-hour rule). 

With respect to the OP's comment about entry stamps into the US,  don't worry about that as there are none for US citizens.  They just swipe the passport into their computer system and place no markings whatsoever within the passport.  I have no clue how we US citizens would ever prove when we re-entered the US other than indirectly through guessing from an exit stamp from another country or via some boarding pass; on the other hand, I'm doubtful we'd ever have the need to prove a date of re-entry (nobody has ever asked me that question after I've re-entered 40-50 times).    

7 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

I'm not sure about that.  I showed the receipt of filing that was given to me by the condo office to the Imm officer the first time I was there and he had me queue to get a stamped receipt.  It only took 15 minutes of waiting though.  So, at the appointment I showed them the stamped receipt not the regular receipt.   All in all though, the 2nd floor office was a pretty easy experience.

Frankly, what the officer had you do (go get one of the smaller Receipt of Notification forms) was entirely unnecessary as you were properly on file via the landlord's filing; regardless, now that you have the Receipt of Notification stapled in the back of your passport, Immigration will use that form to update if/when you re-enter the country to the same address (i.e., you shouldn't have any future need for your landlord's filing copy). 

Out of curiosity, what date did they place on your new Receipt of Notification form?  [I realize they typically put an Arabic numeral date and then the two letter abbreviation in Thai for the month....and I'm hoping you or somebody that can read Thai can advise of the date.  I ask because logically it ought to be the same date as your landlord's filing. If it was dated the same day you just got this new form, I wonder if a future officer might be confused about that given that your entry date was much, much, earlier.]

2 minutes ago, cusanus said:

Great. But can you do it in CM? 

Yes.

[As a side note, 8-10 years ago when I was in Hua Hin on a Tourist Visa, I went to Hua Hin Immigration to switch to a Non-O Visa and ultimately the annual extension based on retirement.  HH Immigration cancelled my Tourist Visa, issued a Non-O Visa that expired 90 days later, and issued an annual extension based on retirement that started when the Non-O expired...and all this was done in about 35 minutes.  Unfortunately, it ain't quite the same up here in CM.]

Outside of but near Topps (in the basement) there are some notices on the walls here and there saying where the various joints have moved.  I don't know where the photo place moved or if there is a sign about them but it's worth a look.

6 hours ago, Santogold said:

 

Is he an Immigration agent that has his own kiosk or room that is labeled as such? Or is he more like an agent in a travel agency and I just go in and ask him for the service? Can you clarify please?

Easy to find per directions above.  Looks like this:

On 5/21/2018 at 2:55 AM, Kohsamida said:

The "receipt" I posted is NOT sufficient to prove residency for EITHER the Non-O Visa or the Certificate of Residency.......... Once copies of the actual TM30, then I can use them to satisfy requirements for the visa, and also for the certificate of residency (for getting a drivers license).

To provide some proof of residency, typically one provides a copy of a lease and/or yellow book (a few have indicated that utility bills in their names have been used to satisfy the residency proof). I've never heard of the original TM30 (or photocopy thereof) or the typical TM30 Receipt of Notification (or even the landlord's online report as you posted above) being used as proof of residency for any purpose.  Either you've hit upon a new method to show residency or, alternatively, your real estate broker is a bit mistaken.  Please report back once you've actually tried to use the TM30 copy to obtain the formal Certificate of Residence and/or a Non-O Visa. 

1 hour ago, cusanus said:

A bit confused on this.  What if a person gets the TM30 for a specific residence, say a hotel, then instead goes and spends  a week or two visiting a friend. Is the owner of the visit place or the farang required to register a TM30 or a temporary stay? 

I'm a bit unsure about your confusion.  You have a TM30 filed for you at your current address and you've updated as required (this being evidenced by what you posted before).  Regardless of where you stay within Thailand, you obviously have nothing to do yourself (at least under current enforcement at CM Immigration).  As for your friend, yes, technically the friend is required to file a TM30 for you but, as was mentioned by others, I'm not sure why he would bother given Immigration is hardly going to know you're staying there for a week.   Theoretically your friend could be caught and fined if Immigration police came around to investigate but, given the odds of that happening (probably near zero), your friend probably shouldn't worry about it.  

9 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

So, if I present the receipt that my landlord gave me (as shown in my attachment), Immigration will provide this STAMP and attach to my passport as part of the application process...OR are you saying that I have to have this done BEFORE I apply for the visa conversion?  

 

As regards your your advice that it is prudent to follow the “rules”, I would be thrilled to do so, if I knew what they were LOL ?.  So, thank you to everyone who are helping me piece this together, and hopefully this will help others as well.

Don't blame you about your comment about the rules.  All of the current "rules" most of us have been talking about weren't rules at all 2-3 of years back.  The rules on TM30 filings by individuals (versus hotels and guesthouses) have somewhat evolved over time and nobody knows for sure what the rules will be next week, next year, etc.

Back to your question.  The receipt your landlord gave you is fine and you're perfectly safe if you have not left and returned to Thailand since the date of that landlord's receipt.  Presuming that's the case (you haven't left and returned to Thailand to your same address since the landlord filed that), then, should you leave Thailand hereafter and return, somebody (you or your landlord) needs to update within a few days after your return (CM Immigration hasn't been strictly enforcing the so-called 24-hour rule and at least two Immigration officers have told me that "within 4-5 days of returning" is adequate).  Now, when you update, I suspect Immigration will actually print out and attach a new form (just like the one Cusanus posted above) and staple it in the back of your passport.  But, yes, take your landlord's receipt with you when you update (just in case they can't find the filing on their computer). 

But....as has been mentioned....if sometime after your landlord filed that receipt you posted,  you in fact did leave and return to Thailand and nobody updated upon your return, then you  may have to pay a fine when you next need any extension service at CM Immigration.

To update, all you do is go to Immigration and hand them your passport (with some form of TM30 receipt either stapled in it or inserted between the pages) and tell them you are there to update your TM30 (you don't have to provide them with any other documents or copies). They'll take your passport, play with their computer for a couple of minutes (I suspect they are inserting in your "file" the new date you entered and your new departure card number), and then they'll either place a new date (and usually but not always the red circular stamp) on whatever receipt you have in your passport or they'll print out a new one, date and stamp it, and staple that in the back of your passport.  You can currently update at either Promenada (which is done upstairs and typically involves getting a queue number) or you can just walk into Building #3 at the old (and about to be new) Immigration site near the airport.  I and many friends have updated at Building #3 and it's never taken more than 5 minutes for any of us.  After the new Immigration building is open for business (supposedly July or August), I suspect that the only location for updating will be the new building as the boss of Building #3 told me that they are moving into the new building when it opens.  

12 minutes ago, rumak said:

Good info....  BUT  i am not so sure who the "legal obligation" is on.  The law is according to the office interpreting it.. 

I agree that the law as practiced depends on who happens to be interpreting it at the moment (e.g., in Bangkok, they don't interpret or apply it at all!); however, the statutory language is rather clear and places equal responsibility on the owner, landlord, and tenant. I'll attempt to attach a photo of the sign currently hanging out at CM Immigration (Promenada).