heybruce

On another forum I was called a leftist for opposing a military coup against a democratic government. If a leftist is anyone who opposes dictatorship, then I'll happily accept the label. I probably know more about nuclear war, and deterrence of nuclear war, than you do. Rewarding nuclear blackmail is not an effective deterrence. And a war has already been started by Russia.

On another forum I was called a leftist for opposing a military coup against a democratic government. If a leftist is anyone who opposes dictatorship, then I'll happily accept the label. I probably know more about nuclear war, and deterrence of nuclear war, than you do. Rewarding nuclear blackmail is not an effective deterrence. And a war has already been started by Russia.

When did people in the Right wing become such wimps? Look out, he's making vague threats to do something! We better surrender!

The Vietnam war ended half a century ago in a very different world. In Afghanistan and the second Iraq war the USA attempted to impose a government on the defeated countries the people weren't familiar with, didn't support, and that did not take into account the tribal traditions of governance in those countries. It was a stupid thing to do. In the first Iraq war the US led coalition crushed Saddam Hussein's military, forced a withdrawal from Kuwait, and then left Iraq to sort out the aftermath. If it comes to NATO and Russia shooting at each other with conventional weapons, I expect a similar outcome. However I don't think things will escalate to that degree unless Putin does something really stupid, such as launching attacks on NATO territory or using tactical nuclear weapons.

World leaders haven't got involved in distant wars in which thousands were slaughtered and it wasn't clear there was a viable "good guy" side to support. This is a war in which a corrupt autocrat is attempting to eliminate a democratic nation on NATO's borders.

Do you think rewarding nuclear blackmail makes the world safer, or leads to more nuclear blackmail and more nations acquiring nuclear weapons so they can do the same?

Or there could be a poll or survey, *Are your political leanings Left wing or Right wing , and do you want the world to cower before Putin and give in to his every demand* Seems like people from a certain political persuasion really want to cave in to Putin. Funny, there was a time when conservatives and Republicans took a hard line against that sort of thing.

"I am not sure the soft and spoiled new generations in the west are prepared for a wake up call from Russia." While Russia's military has shown itself to be....embarrassingly incompetent. BTW: Do you want American leadership, or American capitulation?

Trump wants peace talks. Wow, why didn't somebody think of this before? Oh wait, they did. In fact Zelensky is willing, Putin is not. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-flies-into-russian-far-east-ukraine-talks-with-belarusian-leader-2022-04-12/ Perhaps Trump could call his buddy Vlad and tell him to get serious about peace. However Putin will not get serious about peace until Ukraine is crushed into non-existence, or Russia's military is fought to a standstill. I prefer the latter. The threat of WW 3 has existed for over 60 years. The threat did not disappear with the fall of the Soviet Union, it was still there. World War 3 has not been prevented by caving in to nuclear blackmail, it has been prevented by making it clear that if one side starts firing nukes, both sides will lose. It's a horrible deterrence, but it works.

Let me guess: You think the world should give in to Putin's nuclear blackmail and abandon Ukraine to its fate.

"A much more serious journalistic breech than getting a school shooting narrative wrong." Do you mean the blatantly obvious lie that parents grieving over the loss of murdered children were crisis actors? The lie that led to death threats against these parents by lunatic conspiracy theorists who believe any conspiracy theory offered so long as they are offered loudly and with spittle? He sold all those nutritional supplements by enlisting the help of "Dr Edward Group" who supposedly went to MIT. Group has a chiropractic degree from Texas Chiropractic College (not really a doctor, not really an expert on nutrition) who may have visited MIT at some time but never graduated from there. It's unclear if he ever took a class there. The man is a liar and a snake oil salesman. Eric Shroyer has some baggage as well: "On August 20, 2021, Shroyer was charged with illegally entering a restricted area and disorderly conduct during the 2021 United States Capitol attack. He announced on InfoWars that there was a warrant for his arrest and that he would fight the charges." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoWars#Owen_Shroyer

Right, it's not like climate science has advanced at all in the last 50 years. How could it? Computing power and satellite technology used for observations are the same now they were in the 70's, aren't they? "In the mid 1970s, the limited temperature series available suggested that the temperature had decreased for several decades up to then. As longer time series of higher quality became available, it became clear that global temperature showed significant increases overall." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

My bet it that this is a stalling tactic and assets were carefully hidden before the bankruptcy filing. I'm also confident that the contemptible Alex Jones will continue to spread lies for profit.

The US and UK prepared the world for the invasion by releasing intelligence reports of Putin's intentions days and weeks before the invasion. At this time Russian military movements are probably being followed by a combination of civilian satellites that can take remarkably accurate images of the surface of the earth and reports from Ukrainian citizens who tend to notice when armor and troops pass by. The US is probably sharing intelligence with Ukraine, but not necessarily of the locations of the Russian military. That can be covered by other sources.

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are all former members of the USSR and NATO members. They became NATO members because they don't want to be dominated by or annexed by Russia. It's easy to see why they don't want to be part of Russia; they are all doing much better on a per capita GDP basis than Russia. They are also much freer.

Imagine how differently history would have played out if, instead of giving Hitler the go-ahead to annex the Sudetenland portion of Czechoslovakia with its formidable border defenses, Chamberlain and other western leaders had made it clear that they would give Czechoslovakia whatever support it needed to defend itself against a German invasion.

1992: I will get concerned if Russia goes on to invade Countries outside of Moldova. Its currently just a squabble between Russia and Moldova and theres no need for anyone else to get involved 2008: I will get concerned if Russia goes on to invade Countries outside of Georgia . Its currently just a squabble between Russia and Georgia and theres no need for anyone else to get involved 2014: I will get concerned if Russia goes on to invade Countries outside of Crimea . Its currently just a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and theres no need for anyone else to get involved 2022: I will get concerned if Russia goes on to invade Countries outside of Ukraine . Its currently just a squabble between Russia and Ukraine and theres no need for anyone else to get involved

I already explained why rewarding nuclear blackmail is a bad idea. I even clarified my thinking when you replied to my post. Now you want to go back to square one and start over again.

You have far to narrow an interpretation of the statement "Russia must be stopped". Do you think providing Ukraine with weapons is not military involvement? No, I'm not pulling your leg. Once again, read posts carefully and reply to what is posted, not what you think is implied.

To my knowledge you are the only one to openly say so. Giving Ukraine the means to defend itself, and using sanctions to limit Russia's ability to fund the war, is effective. Getting other nations actively involved in combat in Ukraine opens a Pandora's box of risk; not least of which is providing Russia with "justification" to launch attacks on those nations. That could quickly escalate into something unmanageable.

When will you identify these posters that want western nations to put troops on the ground in Ukraine?

"Insisting that extreme positions that have not been stated are implied is simplistic. and your point is?" You stated support for Ukraine implies a desire for NATO to get involved in militarily in Ukraine. "Are you saying that NATO can get involved with a conflict that is not against a country in NATO. That is highly unlikely." Seriously? What do you think is happening now with NATO and Ukraine? "To assume I do not have nuanced opinions is extremely arrogant..." I never stated that. I posted that you don't give others credit for nuanced, informed posts. It seems you still don't. Perhaps if you read their posts more carefully...

You speculate endless on secret agreements and intentions without any evidence. The fact remains that NATO has never initiated any kind of war, NATO has only become involved in conflicts after a member has been attacked. Russia has initiated unprovoked wars, and is doing so now.

Can you stop thinking in terms of one extreme or the other? Sanctions hurt the Russian people, Putin's supporters, and Putin. They also limit Russia's ability to fund its war machine. Note I didn't say sanctions eliminate funding for the war machine, I said they limit it. Similarly, Europe is already reducing energy dependence on Russia, and will continue to do so. Once again, I'm not saying this is an immediate quick fix, but a long term process to limit Russia's ability to do harm. Military minds on all sides are constantly thinking of measures, counter-measures, counter-counter-measures, etc. There's nothing new about that. Yes it only takes one country to use nukes to bring disaster to all of us. That does not make it a wise strategy to cave in to any country threatening to use nuclear weapons.

"Short of using the nuclear threat, just how is the west going to stop Russia- say please nicely?' In this case, sanctions and arming Ukraine. Is that nice enough for you? Once again, only a small number of countries have acquired or are attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. Rewarding nuclear blackmail will increase the incentive to acquire these weapons. That will make a bad situation much worse.