AKJeff

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Also, Pew Research in mid-late Nov. did a newer survey on Americans' willingness to get the CV vaccine.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/12/03/intent-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-rises-to-60-as-confidence-in-research-and-development-process-increases/

 

Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases

 

Still about two-in-ten ‘pretty certain’ they won’t get vaccine – even when there’s more information

 

"Overall, 60% of Americans say they would definitely or probably get a vaccine for the coronavirus, if one were available today, up from 51% who said this in September. "

 

And the political breakdown:

 

 

 

The political party breakdown taken from the larger chart above:

 

 

Far fewer Republicans than Democrats say they definitely or probably will be vaccinated for CV.

 

 

Sure but like I said in my earlier post, this is what someone says about a yet to be delivered vaccine during a highly politicized time.  I still think the true number will be much higher.  And that is still 31% of Democrats. The politics of this election has screwed up a lot of this sort of stuff.  Let's hope the political side of the vaccine dues down soon. 

And I know it is not scientific but of the people I know, only 2 families don't want the vaccine.   One the liberal and whole foods type and one the religious don't trust the government type.  

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The limitation of the study cited above in the WaPo article is it ONLY looked at results from 13 Northern California counties (which tend to skew liberal), and didn't look at results from anywhere else. So of course the anti-vax clusters it found are going to end up being in some liberal leaning areas (since those were the ones it studied!)

 

But those results hardly can be extrapolated to being representative of the entire country. The cited research didn't look at levels of under-vaccination anywhere else, including the wide swaths of politically conservative areas across the country outside of Nor Cal.

 

 

 

And in that same vein, you managed to omit mentioning another passage in the same WaPo article that didn't fit with your thesis, but does refllect reality, talking about resistance to the measles vaccine and a measles outbreak in Southern California.

 

"Of the 34 patients in the current measles outbreak whose vaccination status is known, only five were fully vaccinated, according to the Los Angeles Times. And the worst of the outbreak is centered in Orange County, ground zero for the anti-vaccination movement that's put children at risk over junk science."

 

Let's repeat that last part again for emphasis:

 

Rock ribbed Republican Orange County at the time of the article 5 years ago -- "ground zero for the anti-vaccination movement that's put children at risk over junk science."

I posted the whole article so people could read for themselves.   It has been a long time since I read any of these articles but it was not the only one written at the time.  My point was not that every Republican vaccinates their children.   The point was the person I quoted was calling anti vaxxers "nut jobs" and associated them with Trump.   When in fact people on both sides of the political spectrum are anti vaxxers.  Many who are well educated.

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

A majority of Republicans won't get the jab.  They are hard core Trump supporters.  Trump is anti-science.  Connect the dots.

 

Many are also religious.  And many of those are Trump supporters.  Sorry, but the dots connect.

 

Glad you got your bad.  These type of people are very detrimental our society.  We're all in this together.  Hopefully!!!

Okay,  this is the chart from the link you provided. 

It appears that 56 percent of Republicans are nut jobs and are detrimental to our society. 

It also appears that 42 percent of Democrats are nut jobs and are detrimental to our society. 

If 49 percent of people in America wanted to make vaccinations a primary voting issue then they might consider us detrimental to their society. 

In the end I think most will get the vaccine.   But if you think that only stupid anti science people supported Trump you are wrong.   I know many people that voted for him.   School teachers, engineers,  nurses and stay at home moms.  All educated and had valid reasons that had nothing to do with being anti science. 

Anyway, we probably agree on more things than you think.  I just don't like grouping people together and then telling them why they think that way.  If we want people to change the way they think education, not insults is the way I believe is most effective.   It takes time, often generations.  

Taking care of people is part of what makes a society.  That means physically, intellectually and mentally.   Respecting the rights of the individual is as important as protecting the majority.   Think of all the changes that have taken place in the last 40 years.  Without the right of individuals to speak about social injustices changes would not have taken place.

I believe in vaccinations but I believe in the right of people to have their own views about it as well.  When everyone has had their say I trust the "right" decision will be made. 

I have had my vaccinations.   I have given them to my children as well.  I believe in vaccinations as the best way to prevent many diseases.  But when the US was going through a wave of measles a few years ago this was studied.   

There were clusters around a few religious groups, often orthodox Jewish groups and amongst white educated liberals.   Just look at who was putting the information on Facebook.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/majority-antivaxx-vaccine-ads-facebook-funded-by-two-organizations-study

Look who is the biggest "influencer."

Jenny McCarthy?

The truth is the anti vax movement is on the rise but vaccine rates in the US are still mostly above 90 percent. 94.4% according to this study. 

https://www.healthtestingcenters.com/research-guides/vaccination-trends/

After all the political blustering is over, i expect the vast majority of people in the US will get a Covid vaccination as well.  My only real point to original comment you made about "nut jobs, " was that you seem to think they are all Trump supporters.   That has definitely not been the case in the past.   In the past it has been more organic "healthy lifestyle" supporters. 

Not BS unless you ignore studies, interviews,  and facts.  I am sure you don't do that though because that would put you in with the anti vaxxers.  (A little levity)

18 hours ago, robblok said:

Anti vaxers are generally nut jobs, 

Here is a quote from the linked article.

 The communities where anti-vaxxers cluster are also among the most liberal. Marin County, San Francsico County and Alameda County all voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/22/vaccine-deniers-stick-together-and-now-theyre-ruining-things-for-everyone/

My doctor looked at the form and said he would have to consult a reference to see how to test for a few of them.  I said really?  Isn't this obvious?  He made me take a TB skin test and syphilis test but said the others were just a visual examination.   

No requirement to get it notarized in the US.

Oh I forgot he did give me a drug screen.  I think his practice has been hurting from the Covid situation.   He needed the income from the lab fees.

I should be sad but it is sort of funny (peculiar) how an epidemic has made so many of the doctor’s offices empty.

Although I agree that it is too simplistic to just blame the pandemic on the eating of bats, it is also true that the consumption of many wild fauna tends to spread diseases. I would hope this cultural culinary choice would change in these modern times.  Also, the 1918 flu probably didn't come from America. Here is just one story published in 2014 by a Canadian historian that traces the possible origin of the 1918 pandemic.   

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

I did the same from the US.  Went for the O-A because non-o wasn't on the list.  Just after I got the visa they put Non-o and TR on the list.  I had been on a Non-o (r) for the last 3 years.  I wish I could have kept it.  

I am currently in the air on a flight.  Entering quarantine soon.

Just a heads up, Qatar hasn't really enforced the mask wearing that much.  Walking back and forth to the bathroom I have seen many people without one.  I find it odd because they give you a face shield and say you have to wear both items.  But lots of people aren't.   At least on the DFW to DOH leg.  Not sure what it will be like on the final leg.  The leg from BHM to DFW the mask rule was strictly enforced.   Just FYI for any who care.

Sheryl is correct.  I was reading too many post.  I purchased O-A insurance to satisfy the embassy not insurance for Non-B holders.  I will send you a PM with the email address of the person I dealt with.  They might have the kind of insurance you need but it will be different than the one I purchased.    

It can be done but like most things it depends on multiple factors.  The person at the embassy i dealt with rejected the two letters I had from BCBS and said I needed the foreign insurance certificate form filled out by the insurance company. 

http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

The insurance filled in the form but only one representative signed the form.  The embassy person insisted it was not acceptable unless all three signatures were presented.  I was unable to obtain this in a timely manner and just bought a high deductible plan off the Thai approved list of companies.   6000 Baht for the year.

https://longstay.tgia.org/

I know at least one other person where this was not the case but the person I was dealing with said impossible. 

TiT

The two people I know that took repatriation flights said that almost every seat was full on the plane.  I have a semi-comercial flight booked via BHM-DFW-Doha-Bkk and the flight looks almost empty according the Qatar's seat assignment app.  That could be one benefit to a non repatriation flight.  Also for me, I was able to book from a small city connecting in Dallas all through Qatar airways, so when I had to change my flight, while waiting for the COE one phone call changed everything.   The repatriation flights listed on the embassy website were only available thought a few of the major cities.  And the semi-commercial flight was 300 dollars cheaper.

When I started the process there were no semi commercial flights available but I was told they started a few weeks ago.

My flight is now scheduled for next week it was originally for today.

Oh, I checked the embassy website.   Where there are instructions on how to apply.  I checked with hospitals that issued letters of acceptance.   I sent questions to the embassy that were never answered and the consultant here in Bali has been closed since March.  And if I go to https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/index.php I get this:

I just got an email from the major hospital in Bangkok that I have been working with.  I have been trying to return to Thailand for three months using the medical tourist option. 

Long story short, after buying additional insurance,  even though I had coverage with my normal insurance,  and buying a plane ticket, both required to make the application.   The hospital says that the Ministry of Public Health is not permitting any medical tourist from Indonesia.   There are 142 countries that can come but Indonesia is not on the list.  

They could have put that fact on the embassy website instead of instructions on how to apply.

Just a quick rant and warning for others. 

16 minutes ago, Wars said:

Something like this will work. Its gotta mention the $100k coverage and covid 19. 

Thanks,  I have letters from my insurance carrier but they are more written in paragraph form.  I am thinking the problem might be that my carrier wrote there is "no lifetime limit" on coverage rather than a number.  That is my best guess.  I will try and send a request for something Ike this.

I will not bore you with the details but I have been trying to get a CoE and new non-o to enter Thailand from Indonesia.  I am using the medical tourist route.  I have all the paperwork listed on the website with the letters of acceptance from the hospital etc.

I mailed the documents over a month ago.  I didn't hear anything and the two emails I sent were returned undeliverable.   There has been no communication at all.

So i contacted the hospital and asked if they could check the status.   They got back two days latter saying the embassy said I didn't include the required insurance proof.  Of course I did but I suspect they want some specific format.  I asked the hospital what they were looking for and all they would say is provide the letters.   Which I have done.... and the circle continues. 

My question is for anyone who has received a CoE based on medical need.  What did your proof letter look like or contain?  I can try to get some else from the insurance company but I don't know what to ask for.

Any help would be appreciated. 

21 hours ago, ukrules said:

How does it come back after going 3 months with no detection?

 

This is a very serious question and it needs a definitive answer.

I had read that it was a person that crossed the border illegally from China.  I can't find the news articel or i would link it.  But I think that is why there is a reference in this article to illegal immigration.

21 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

 

Ps.

One question please. Is anti vaxxer lefty or right. 

Is different in different country? 

Look like UK anti vaxxer is lefty. In USA is hard right? 

I confused a bit. 

 

 

The answer is a little off topic but in the US anti vaxxers are more left than right (not by much).  But the left has more big celebrities behind them.  But they're people on both sides of the political spectrum that disagree with vaccines.   The sides often have different reasoning behind their opposition though. 

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/childhood-vaccination-programs-should-be-exempt-political-bias

4 hours ago, Mulambana said:

Next phase  they are allowing elite visa holders. I think they are a bunch of new groups every month. It has only been three months since all theses started. I think have to give a few more months. My guess is by September they will start allowing retirement extensions.

I hope you are right but my point is they aren't even laying out a master plan for returning.  Since i am not in my home country and Indonesia will be making many people here on tourist visas leave the country it would be nice to know a plan.  If it is one month away then I go to Nepal or the Maldives but if it is next year I should just go back to my home country.  But my only home to live in is in Thailand.  My "spending money" is in a Thai bank.  Both of these were my choice i know but Thailand has encouraged this behavior from expats.   It would be nice to know we have some priority over week long tourist or trade shows.

10 hours ago, Letseng said:

 

May I ask which hospital you contacted? My choice is St Louis. They applied for the program but still in preparation. 

I have talked with both Bangkok Hospital and Bumrungrad Hospital.  

Also yes they want a doctor to say you need to go to Thailand for treatment.  Difficult in a country that has competent medical care.

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Best of luck. 

Thanks.

I know there are lots of people like me, caught out of Thailand.  Like me they have homes and a life in Thailand and are kept out even though we would quarantine.   If it goes on much longer I really will start looking at alternatives for retirement.   Not a threat just a reasonable idea.

There are places that have started letting long stays back in.  But the truly sad part is Thailand isn't really even talking about what to do with retirement extension holders.

I think it is a lot easier if you already had a ongoing medical treatment plan with the hospital.   The medical services i have used in Thailand are not participating in the AHQ.  So i am having to get an accepted letter without medical records that are in Thailand. 

The first hospital I tried with would not accept the records I had on my computer.  All the other records I have are in Thailand that I can't provide or in the US and I am not there either.  So that hospital would not issue an acceptance letter without me first returning to the US providing documents (one needed to that say I need medical treatment in Thailand, silly because I can get anything in the US), hope to get the COE from the Embassy and then fly to Thailand. 

I told them that was unacceptable. 

Here is some of the protocols. 

Protocol for Quarantine in Bumrungrad International Hospital:

• Patient and companion(s) will be subject to a quarantine in Bumrungrad International Hospital for the duration of 14+2 days from the day of arrival into the Kingdom of Thailand. (The first day of arrival is referred to as day 0).
• Patient will only be allowed to leave the room for medical investigation and procedure as needed, while a companion(s) will remain in the room throughout the quarantine period, except for visiting the patient at certain times of the day.
• Fever and respiratory tract symptoms will be monitored on a daily basis.
• Nasopharyngeal and oral swabs for real-time PCR for COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) will be performed on 3 occasions, on day 0, 7, 13.
• If the test result for COVID-19 is detectable, the infected individual will be cared for in Bumrungrad International Hospital.
• The approvals from the Embassy of the patient’s nationality as well as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are needed before returning home (the process takes 2 – 3 days)

Foreign-nationals who are permitted to enter the Kingdom of Thailand as patients seeking for medical care, can only be quarantined in the hospital (in the form of Alternative Hospital Quarantine or AHQ) upon arrival.

38 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Skipping personal stuff, what are requirements for "based on medical" 

This thread is about "medical wellness" the difference in the two?

There doesn't seem to be a difference. 

This is part of the first email I received from a major hospital.   The email is much longer but these are the basic requirements. 

Please find details for incoming case from overseas to Bumrungrad International Hospital under the tentative AHQ program below:

Information and documents needed from the patient (to be confirmed).

a.)        Copy of the patient's passport. 

b.)        Copy of the companion's passport(s) (max. 3 companions). 

c.)        Updated medical report with relevant investigation results. 

d.)        Referral letter from a doctor in current country, stating the need to seek for treatment in 

Thailand.

e.)        Insurance policy (or Guarantee letter from the Embassy) covering the medical expenses incurred in Thailand, including treatment of COVID-19, medical transportation and repatriation if needed, minimum amount of USD100,000 each, for the patient and each companion.

f.)         Affidavit of support 

g.)        Letter of intention and consent for quarantine.

h.)        Flight ticket. 

i.)         Fit-to-travel or Fit-to-fly certificate issued by a licensed doctor in the current country, within 

72 hours before departure. (Please do not seek for this item yet. We shall alert you 

when to visit the doctor for this certificate.)

j.)         COVID-19 test result within 72 hours before departure. (Please do not seek for this item 

yet.)

*Items f.) and g.) will be prepared by Bumrungrad International Hospital for the patient’s and companion’s signing.  

** Permission to enter the Kingdom of Thailand granted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Thailand is needed prior to travel, with support from a Confirmation letter issued by Bumrungrad International Hospital. The Certificate of Entry (COE) will be issued through the Royal Thai Embassy in the origin country for the patient to carry and show.

Thanks oracle.   I say that with true appreciation for your knowledge on this forum.   

It is an interesting ride so far the embassy hasn't answered any questions other than to say that only non-b visas can enter right now (we know that isn't correct)  and that more information will be coming soon