AKJeff

Good day all.

I am in Indonesia and have been for six months.  I hold a US passport but I don't think that would matter.  I have had a extention of stay for three years based on retirement that expired a few weeks ago.  I have been talking to a hospital that is participating in the wellness tourism program under the alternative hospital quarantine, AHQ. 

There seems to be two types of programs.   One is for less than 14 days for treatment then leave the country. The other entities the participants to travel Thailand after the treatment and 14 day quarantine is over.

My question is this,  and I am not sure anyone really knows.  What visa do you enter on and is that visa convertible to a non-o that can receive an extension based on retirement?  The hospital doesn't seem to know.  My working theory is that you enter with a tourist visa that has a pathway to extend like they used to.  But I haven't seen any real information on this.  

I can't imagine going through the trouble and expense if you have to leave after 30, 60, or 90 days.  Has anybody read information about this?  I hope the Oracle for Ubon has a good idea.

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

 

"In vaccine development, "one of the things that you hope for is that your vaccine induces a response that's comparable to a natural infection, because theoretically, the best vaccine you could possibly ever get is a natural infection".

https://www.afr.com/companies/healthcare-and-fitness/anthony-fauci-bullish-on-prospects-for-us-vaccine-this-year-20200716-p55ch6

Before all this covid started herd immunity used to mean immunity gained from either natural infections or vaccines.   I truly hope and want an effective vaccine.   But it is likely that if antibodies from natural immunity go away after a short time then the vaccine will have a similar effect.

Don't get too excited.   I have no information about what Thailand will do.  I am in Indonesia wanting to get back to Thailand and on an automatic extension simular to what Thailand did. 

There has been a lot of talk about what will happen next.  Here is an artical from Jakarta about what another Asian country decided to do.  Not good news.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/travel/2020/07/12/emergency-stay-permits-to-no-longer-be-issued-for-foreigners-as-indonesia-enters-new-normal.html

Basically 30 days to renew if you are eligible under the old rules or get out within that time frame.

This is not Thailand, I know but thought it might be of interest to some that say a country wouldn't make everyone leave quickly.

4 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

If I recall my history correctly, it was a widespread outbreak in the US Army that was the major precursor of the Spanish flu of 1918. 

Lightning couldn't strike twice though surely? 

About 6 years ago "National Geographic" published a good article on this subject.  The origin has been debated for decades.  Have a read, most likely it didn't start in the US.

The researcher was Canadian and it was before this pandemic so no bias there but guess where it might have come from.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Would be worth calling their international dept or else sending another email in a week or two. Calling is always better.

Good idea

2 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Cannot help but think that if you need to go to Thailand for health reasons your insurance policy is going to sky rocket to cover your already known health issues PLUS would any insurer actually cover you knowingly for a foreign country potentially operating on you ? 

My insurance policy as with many in the US  is an employment based plan.  It doesn't matter how often it is used the price is the same for everyone.  I have had the same insurance for my entire 30 year career and carried it into retirement.   I have used the insurance in Thailand,  New Zealand, Costa Rica, (they both requested payment from the company for services provided to reimburse the state run health plan) the Czech Republic and more.  Almost all have been minor illnesses or accidents. There is no price increase for someone to use the benefits. 

And i can get an operation anywhere i want.  If there is an agreement between the doctor/hospital and the insurance then they pay an agreed price.   If there isn't one, like the government hospital in Phetchabun,  I pay out of pocket file a claim and they reimburse me the charged amount or the standard amount for like procedure in the US.  That usually mean the whole bill since the US usually cost more.  I do sometimes pay a copay but that varies with the procedure and or how much I have paid already in the year.

The only caveat is is cannot be something like cosmetic surgery or an experimental (unapproved) treatment.   I have never had a claim rejected. 

4 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

You might want to kiss a baht instead... 

 

It is a sure recipe to bring good luck... 

555

But if I want the insurance to pay for the quarantine I need bad luck.  Maybe if I can kiss a Baht note that has been sneezed on by someone with Covid-19. 

555

1 minute ago, Brunolem said:

When it's all said and done, an extremely "simple" procedure, making the requirements for a work permit look like a walk in the park! 

 

By the time the hopeful candidates will have jumped through all the hoops, probably around mid 2021, the virus will be long gone, and all the hurdles to enter Thailand will have been removed... 

 

Probably right.  

I have tried to "contact " the embassy and i got the basic brush off.

But I am board an have noting better to do right now so I am giving it a go.   Also I am not in my home country so I am spending more here than i would in Thailand.

3 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

During my short stay at BKK hospital, we were billed just over 3,000 baht, for a private room, with meals and a mini bar. My wife stayed in my room with me. 

Never let taking advantage of a situation go to waste! 

The prices seem like a good money maker for sure.  

My insurance pays for all covid treatment and testing with no deductible.   (a lot of US insurers are waving co-pays for covid)  but i doubt a quarantine at a hospital without treatment would be covered.   But i am thinking of asking them.  I know they totally cover the cost of the testing and treatment so if I had covid when I arrived the quarantine would be free (well prepaid with the premium).

Maybe i can kiss a bat before I return.   

Ironically the insurance Thailand wants you to buy is no where near as good as i have but I think Thailand won't accept it even thought Bangkok Hospital is a plan participant and i have already obtained letters from the insurer that I have covid coverage with no monitary limit valid in Thailand. 

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Is there a date on this guidance?

I got this Email this morning.   Short of my name and some contact information at the hospital it is the whole message.   I don't really think it is private but I removed the contact information for the nurse that sent the email.  If you want it PM me and I will send it to you. 

I agree this is a detailed list and is a great starting point for someone wanting to try this route.  It does have some ambiguities in it, such as;

"An alternative to buying the insurance, you may show your income statement or the other proof of financials to the embassy.  This will allow the embassy to consider whether or not you have sufficient amount of money to consume during the course of treatment at the hospital without having any financial difficulties."

Interesting out, I imagine it would need to be quite a large sum of money. ( or a smaller sum to the right person)  I know I am being cynical 

This one also,

Note:  Different countries may require different documents thus it is essential that you contact and confirm with The Royal Thai Embassy that you’re currently living in.

I can understand this but right now the Thai Embassy in Jakarta says they are only letting non-b visas in.  And the consultant in Bali is still closed.

Sorry for the font issues, I am on a phone and can't seem to change it after the quotes. 

I am still hoping they address the retires and their needs/wants.  Many of us have invested millions into Thailand (condos) and have money in Thai banks and they don't seem to think that we should be given a chance to return to our homes before vacationers return to Phuket in August.   With testing and quarantine we should be allowed back in.  But i am just a dirty faran....

I have used the medical facilities in Thailand and my US insurance is good at Bangkok Hospital but I doubt I will spend this much money to return to Thailand.   

I will let the email speak for itself.  But it looks difficult and expensive. 

Greetings from Bangkok hospital!

Bangkok Hospital always welcome you to receive the top medical services in our hospital.  However, to travel to Thailand the patient and attendant (s) must be quarantined for 14 days upon arrival to comply with the protocols of the Department of Disease Control and the Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand in the midst of the pandemic of COVID-19. Below is the guideline to contact the government for requesting entry approval to Thailand for treatment.

Before travelling to the Kingdom, there are several concerns that you need to know and have them done as following:

1. Contact your local hospital for COVID-19 test (PCR) and issuing Fit to Fly Certificate stating that you have negative result. This should be issued no more than 72 hours prior to the departure date.
2. Contact Bangkok Hospital to issue the Acceptance Letter for treatment and Treatment Plan from your attending doctor.
3. Buy insurance, in an amount at the minimum of 100,000 USD.  You may select:

• Health Insurance which covers all expenditures of medical treatment while traveling to Thailand. 
• Travel Insurance, which cover the treatment of COVID-19

An alternative to buying the insurance, you may show your income statement or the other proof of financials to the embassy.  This will allow the embassy to consider whether or not you have sufficient amount of money to consume during the course of treatment at the hospital without having any financial difficulties.

4. Contact The Ministry of Foreign Affairs that you’re currently living in to issue an important letter address to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand for a special consideration; allowing you to enter the Kingdom in a state of emergency for treatment.
5. Contact The Royal Thai Embassy in your country to process for entry approval (Documents No.1-4 are required).  Note:  Different countries may require different documents thus it is essential that you contact and confirm with The Royal Thai Embassy that you’re currently living in.
6. Your final approval to enter into Thailand will be finalized by The Royal Thai Ministry of Defense and Thai Ministry of Public Health.
7. After receiving approval of entry and booking air ticket, you will send the confirmation of travel date to Bangkok Hospital for admission and transportation arrangement.

Hospital Quarantine:

The patient will be quarantined in Cohort Ward in the hospital for 14 days. One attendant could be quarantined with the patient in a special connected room type.

• The hospital quarantined room rates are special discount as following:

• 6,000 THB / night for standard room type (patient only)
• 10,150 THB / night for deluxe room type (with one attendant and 3 meals)
• 12,850 THB / night for superior room type (with one attendant and 3 meals)
• 3,000 THB / night for TCH Hospital (single room for outpatient only)

• The COVID-19 tests will be repeated for both patient and attendant on day 0, 5 and 14 of the quarantine period.  The package price is 13,500 THB for patient and 15,500 THB for one attendant (include DF)
• During the 14 days of quarantine at Cohort Ward, most of investigations and treatment will be given as an inpatient. ***

Note: The selected room type depends on the patient condition and availability of room on the admission date.

8. The following documents are required to submit to The Thai Ministry of Health prior to 72 hours of patient arrival. Once we receive these documents we will process to contact the government and send the confirmation of admission arrangement to you.

For patient

1. A copy of passport with Visa approval
2. A copy of air ticket
3. Travel Recommendation Letter from Royal Thai Embassy in each country
4. Confirmation letter from Bangkok Hospital
5. Financial statement / Bank account statement
6. Fit to fly certificate (issued within 72 hours before traveling)
7. COVID-19 test (PCR) with negative result
8. Medical Report or Referral Letter from local hospital (stating patient requires further treatment)
9. Health insurance / Travel Insurance (coverage at least 100,000 USD)
10. Treatment plan from Bangkok Hospital

For attendant

1. A copy of passport with Visa approval
2. A copy of air ticket
3. Travel Recommendation Letter from Royal Thai Embassy in each country
4. Affidavit of support (Statement of relationship with patient)
5. Health certificate for general passenger (issued within 72 hours before traveling)
6. COVID-19 test (PCR) with negative result
7. Health insurance / Travel Insurance (coverage at least 100,000 USD)

Note: Make sure that the patient and relatives secure / complete all the documents before confirmation of admission

9. Advance booking with the certified hotels by the Thai Government (state quarantine) is a must; for 14 days of quarantine in the event that the attendance is more than one.
   
   We would offer an affiliated hotel with Bangkok Hospital, MOVENPICK HOTEL & RESORTS.

• The package price for 15 days of quarantine is 60,300 Thai Baht per person.
• This price includes 1 night stay at TCH Hospital while waiting for the result of COVID-19 test, 14 days of quarantine in MOVENPICK HOTEL, 3 meals per day, airport pick up and 3 Covid-19 testing. 

What you should expect and comply when arrived at the Kingdom of Thailand:

At Suvarnabhumi Airport

• You must show 1. the Fit to Fly Certificate and Health Certificate stating that you have negative result of COVID-19 (validity within 72 hours prior to the departure date).  2. the approval letter from The Royal Thai Embassy and 3. Health Insurance
• Reservation confirmation for quarantine 14 days at the Proof-of-Address from the Ministry of Interior has to be provided to the disease control officers
• You have to download the “AOT Airport of Thailand” mobile application (by scanning the QR Code upon arrival) to record their information and monitor their health signs and symptoms until completing the duration of quarantine or self-monitoring period.
• Our staff and driver will meet you at the exit door No.10 and take you to Bangkok Hospital.

At Bangkok Hospital

• The patient will be admitted at Bangkok Hospital and stayed with 1 attendant. The attendant who does not stay with the patient will be taken for COVID-19 test and stay at the Transitional Care Hospital (TCH) for 1 night while waiting for the result (in the event that you arrived in the evening hours). He /She will be transferred to Movenpick Hotel on the next day after receiving the result of COVID-19 test.
• After admission, the treatment plan for the patient must be submitted to the Ministry of Health of Thailand by Bangkok Hospital.
• The patient and attendant (s) are not allowed to leave the quarantine room until completing the duration of 14 days. 

There weren't talking to me but I have been called worse.

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You revised your original post relating to the per capita testing, after I pointed out that the chart on that that you posted was flawed (because it only reported testing data for the prior 10 days, which is hardly representative).

 

I did revise the post I added, "

edit: it looks like Denmark has everybody beat per 1000."

That is not deleting anything

 So your post is wrong also. 

Let's admit that.

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, the point was, contrary to the OP's original claim that's now been deleted, the U.S. is nowhere near the top of anyone's list for per capita CV testing -- despite the fact that liar Trump keeps suggesting that they are.

 

 

 

I have not deleted anything, I have no problem if people bring better information.

And again Trump.  Trump is not responsible for any of these websites or statistics.   I am not quoting him.  And I didn't delete the claim in my post in fact I acknowledge the error.

I'll buy that.  Not trying to mislead there were a lot of charts. Trying to pick the right one and type on a phone is not my forte.

The question still holds true.  Something just doesn't align. 

The US has done more testing than any other country and so far has the most reported cases.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-total-tests-for-covid-19

And the most tests per 1000 people. (Maybe I didn't look at every country)  edit: it looks like Denmark has everybody beat per 1000. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-bar-chart

As you can see the Western countries have tested far greater percentages of their populations.

The US has a high mortality rate as well.  Although not near as high as many European countries.  However still higher than many Asian countries. 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/coronavirus-cfr

A new study of serology testing from the US suggests that the number of people in the US with Covid-19 antibodies is 10x higher than the number of confirmed cases. 

https://reut.rs/3hXOzGt

This would suggest than asymptomatic cases are very common.   One has to wonder how true this is of other countries.   Some such as New Zealand look like it is totally gone since they are not detecting any new cases at all but in countries that are still reporting daily new cases this might mean there is 10x the number unreported. 

However if testing has been so much lower in countries like the Philippines, why is the death rate (not total deaths) lower?  I don't have an answer.  Just a question. 

I do think on balance that having 20 million people with antibodies to covid in the US is better than just the 2.4 million that have positive tests.  It makes the rate of mortality 10x lower and is that much more of an immunity buffer. 

Not judging on how efficiently or morally we got to where we are.

13 hours ago, ross163103 said:

Good to hear this, I wish the US would do more about this problem THEY created. 

More needs to be done but the US has been helping for 20 years or more as well as many other countries.   As for how the problem was created.

"The Chinese made landmines in Cambodia were placed by the Cambodian factions (including the Lon Nol, Khmer Rouge, the Heng Samrin and Hun Sen regimes, as well as the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea who, with international support retained the UN seat throughout much of the 1980s) which clashed during the Civil War in Cambodia in the 1970s and 1980s. They were placed in the whole territory of the country. A common problem Cambodians faced with the anti-personnel mines is that often even the people who placed the mines do not remember them a couple of years later."

I quote from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_mines_in_Cambodia

Lots of blame to go around.  A lot of these mines are near the Thailand border.   Maybe Cambodia wanted to keep expats out.

I find something like this works well.  You can tighten or loosened around the back of the neck to make it more or less sealed.   And mine is washable with the inserts out.  That is the big advantage.   You can remove the n95 filter and just cover the face with something that breathes well.  Put the filters in when appropriate, like in a small room with others.  Then remove the filters when you need to breathe better, walking outdoors or not close to others people.

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The article suggests there is in fact a great deal of immunity, and appears entirely in line with what one would expect.  Nothing is 100%.

I hope you are right.   I could be misreading it.  I was thinking that since the " levels of neutralizing antibodies varied by over 40,000 fold" and in line with the severity of the infection, that it is less likely that asymptomatic people will acquire enough antibodies.  Also making it more difficult for a vaccine to work.  

But I could be reading it all wrong.  The article does say that 80-90 percent of the people had some level of antibodies though.  The question is what level is needed to prevent a person from contracting the disease a second time?

I will let the article speak for itself but I think this virus maybe around a long time.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/antibody-testing-suggests-immune-response-post-covid-is-very-variable/

I don't want this to happen but can you imagine a world divided into covid19 free countries and countries that are free from the disease.   Where people never go between the two divisions?  

This is far from certain just an interesting short article.

13 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Oh yeah, I did meant to reply to him. sorry bout dat

No problem