KenUdon

One can only wonder why the PM set 03 October date. Why not 03 August ?

Gives him a chance to get a few last minute deals in place Dr....

I'd love to invest 'real' money into LOS, if I could honestly believe that my money was reasonably safe (ie, minimal risk of losing the lot due to some plonker changing the rules overnight...). But 'safe' and 'investment' are not words that go together in LoS.

Thought occurs to me.....supposing they actually DID give farangs the benefit of owning land.

WOULD YOU trust Thaksin and his like not to go back on this when you had paid the money for it, and declare that all foreign owned land was to revert to the state with NO compensation???

It's happened before in other parts of the world!!

for those that have local memories going back pre-97 crash, there were lots of instances back then of irrational bravado getting the better of overnight millionaires. One example that sticks firmly in my mind was a very strange editorial in the B. Post (p'raps in 96), that likened Britain to a third rate failed empire going to the dogs, that would pretty soon lag behind Thailand economically, which was doing 8-10 % growth a year, while UK languished with 1-3 %. The author showed his true colours with a statement to the effect of "The farang is useful to us in some ways, but very boring and expendable". Unfortunately, he forgot to consider the little factor of sustainability of that growth.

Yes, remember that well. Can't quite remember how many baht to the pound at that time, but sure as h*ll wasn't at the same level as today.

They seem to have conveniently forgotten (as is the Thai way) exactly where the 97 Asian crash started, and what...or who the cause was!!

hi Ken

are Phili girls easier to date?and easier to get laid like thai girls?

Can't give first hand opinion of this because I am happily married. They do however seem to be extremely....available!! from what I was told...

phillippino girls are ugly compared to Thai girls...

Now there's a useful, helpful, and constructive comment!!.

If you want to know about the comparison between the girls, it is a very difficult thing to do. MY opinion is that the Pi girls tend to be slightly heavier built, but you can't really generalise. There are beautiful girls in both countries. Ugly ones too!!

Thanks to all for the kind comments.

To Roger13.

Stayed in Dumagete about 4 months. Yes it was the best place FOR ME. because I like the sea and beaches, but like to be near internet and civilisation also. I also went to Manilla (ughh) Cebu, (smaller version of Manilla) Tagbilaran on Bohol, Siquijor, and many other places just to pass through. Bear in mind that Pi has over 7000 islands so couldnt get round them all. There are probably many places much better than the ones that I found.....maybe, but just couldnt live out of a suitcase any longer.

Generally, there are a lot more Americans there. It is very easy to get to Pi from US, but difficult to find a flight from UK, so Americans are the majority of expats. Maybe also to do with past history, airbases etc.

Rent in Cebu is a bit more expensive then where I was, but not as much as manilla. Probably about 7k for the same sort of house there.

The cinemas are up to Uk/US standards..multiplex 5 or 6 screen in the malls. Dumaguete has one!!

The Superferries run between many of the islands, but there are many other types of ferry too. Supercat, pump boats, and assorted craft will take you anywhere you want to go...at your own risk, and believe me, some of them look very risky.

There are many restaurants in most places. KFC McD. and other chains too. The big one called "Jollibee" is an exact copy of McD. but absolutely dreadful both in service and food. The Filipinos LOVE it!!

Getting there, is easy from Bangkok. Philippine Airlines direct about 3.1/2 hours to Manilla. Nothing direct to Cebu except go to Hongkong first. Manilla-Cebu about an hour. Manilla- Dumaguete 1.1/2 hours. Cebu now has a couple of long haul flights land there now. I THINK Kuwait, and Cathay Pacific, from Hong Kong, but very expensive.I found it better to go to Manilla and get a flight to Cebu or other island.

I realise there are a lot of issues that I didnt cover, but thought maybe people would be bored with reading more.

Always happy to expand on it though.

To answer some of the questions so far (some have been answered by others.)

To Roger13. Stayed in Cebu for about 2 months. City about the size of Chiang Mai. Very polluted, noisy and bad traffic. Nightlife ok and good malls. Quite a rip-off culture there being a city. Too busy for me. I rented in Dumaguete on Negros Oriental, Quiet "city" very limited facilities, but nice seafront boulevard, and friendly people. The best place I found despite its limitations.

The armed guards bit certainly is a shock when you first get there, but it seems that the idea is mostly to provide some jobs for people who dont have any. I'm sure that they may be a deterrent for some situations, but have to say I never had any problems, or felt in danger at all. Same as Thailand, just use your head is the best strategy. Quite disturbing though to sit in McDonalds and have an armed guard clear your table....lol

Back in January, some of you may remember that I decided to have a serious look at the Philippines to see if it offered an alternative to retirement in Thailand. Well, I did say I would do a full report when I got back, but have decided to write a "brief" synopsis of my conclusions instead.

For those of you interested in retiring in Pi, it is easy to do. Visas are not a problem, but expensive and ....weird. 21day visa on arrival is then extended every 2 months by a quick visit to Immigration. No documents except passport are required. No questions asked, just "give us the money" Cost varies...yes varies but averages approx, 2000baht a time....ouch! This includes the "express lane " fee which is compulsory! When you have been there a year, you must leave the country for 1 day and can then return and start again.

So, in conclusion to this, much more expensive than my retirement visa in Thailand.

Doesnt appear to be any retirement visa there, and certainly no requirement to deposit monies in a Pi bank. There is a 13a visa for people married to Filipinos, but dont know much about this as I am not.

Costs. Generally, living costs are probably a bit cheaper than Thailand, with one or two exceptions. Household utilities are pretty cheap. I rented a 3bed 2 bath house in a compound with cable tv and phone for 5000baht/month. The electric (no air-con) was 550baht/month and the water bill 75baht/month. Landline rental 150baht, but all local calls, and internet calls are free.

Food is pretty bland by Thai standards, but also cheap. Eating out a bit less than Thai also. Filipinos are not big on eating vegetables but curiously there is a lot of variety if you want.

Transport. Public "Jeepneys" Pedicabs, are cheap to ride (3baht) most trips. Taxis also- flag-fall 17/18 baht. Buses everywhere, but pretty dangerous.

Driving. Well, Having adjusted to Thailand driving after many years in Uk, I was totally un-prepared for the lunacy of Pi. Words can not describe the insanity there, and I certainly can't begin to give you any idea of what it is like, except to say that traffic laws (if they exist) are totally disregarded. Bigger wins, and pedestrians have NO rights whatsoever. I was standing outside a hotel (on the pavement) when I could see a taxi heading my way obviously coming to pick up someone from the hotel. He kept coming, and eventually literally hit me, and pushed me out of the way. Why didnt I move? I just couldnt believe that he was going to do it. I was after all on the pavement. When I tackled him about it, he just said, "well, you should have seen me coming!!" and walked away. That about sums up the attitude.

Infrastructure. Philippines is slowly dragging itself from a 3rd world country into a 4th world country. The total corruption which you find in ANY dealing with officialdom makes Thailand look almost "corruption free" This shows in the state of the roads, pavements, buildings, electricity supply, water supply, and everything else that requires public money. The money is just not reaching the places where it is desperately needed, and it shows. A small amount of repair work was carried out on some roads recently, all of these carrying signs saying that the money for this works was "another" project personally donated by the incumbent party and president.....Nothing to do with the elections which have just taken place of course. When talking to the local people, no works had been done since the last election, and nothing was likely to be done until the next!!

In short, the place is falling apart at the seams, and the chances of it improving are slight. Can't think of any reason why they should.

The People. The good and the bad here. On meeting up with many ex-pats there, the feeling that came out is that the Philippine people are "the most disrespectful people on this earth" It does actually show in their behaviour, both on the road and in everyday life. Hate to say it, but the Thais are nothing like as bad. The only redeeming feature of Filipinos appeared to be that I did not experience ANY anti-farang feeling at all. If you have a white face, you are automatically labelled a "kano" (Ameri-Kano) but it was always quite friendly. In fact, I found that I was treated much better than the locals in many instances. Generally, foreigners are looked upon with curiosity, but I never felt there was a problem being in their country.

It was also quite nice to know that so many people understood, and mostly spoke english also.

Shopping. Strange topic I know, but until you have experienced trying to buy something in Pi, you havn't lived. You can buy most things that you need in Pi, but it does take some searching for. There are no Tesco/Lotus, Big C, or Carrefour there, and outside of the biggest cities, very little in the way of department stores. In Cebu and Manilla and probably other cities too, there are very large American style shopping malls, which really are superb. Everything under one roof. You do have to be careful that things like electronic good and computers are not old stock, or out of date, but plenty of choice there.

It is in the attitude of the sales staff that I was most amazed. Even compared to Thailand, the idea of customer service just doesnt exist. To ask for anything even slightly out of the ordinary gets what the expats there call the "deer in the headlights" look. Totally disinterested in serving you really, but to ask them to look for something is a step too far. Incredibly, some of the stores close for lunch from 12-2.30pm. BUT, they close the doors at 11.40am, to make sure everybody is out in time!! The first time I came across this, I was in a Big store with a basket half full of things, when all the lights went out. It was 11.45, and apparently the staff had neem waiting for us to leave for the last 5 minutes, and as we hadnt made any move, decided to give us a hint. Not being able to see anything in the dark, we just dumped the basket and made to leave. Not easy!! They had already shut the grills on the main entrance door, and so we had to leave via the staff entrance at the back. This is by no means the only time this happened at this and other stores. I could go on with many other instances of total disinterest in customer satisfaction, but this is turning into the epic I didnt want it to.

In conclusion. Philippines is total insanity by western standards, and even by Thai standards, is a difficult place to live with. Dr PP and I have had a few differences of opinion about Thailand before, but I have to say that Thailand has many things which are a lot better than Philippines. That does not excuse Thailand in any way for its many faults, or make it the paradise that the "rose coloured specs" brigade would have us all believe. It does however show, that Thailand has an awful lot going for it when compared to other alternatives, and certainly has the potential to become a great place to live............. unless the anti farang feeling gathers even more pace of course!!

You wonder why people still want to work in this country. This is one of the very few countries with laws for foreigners and for natives, discrimination in its purest form.

Thais can get a credit card by the way when they earn at least 7000 baht per month.

Surely we all know how trustworthy Thais are when it comes to paying their debts..

As regards debts, which one or two of you brought up, Thai banks have paid off many of the 'hybrid' loans created by sharks post-97 that were severly holding back the economy's growth. Banks were previously held back from loaning due to having credit risk problems themselves - mostly due to these hybrid obligations. Credit has started to free up in the economy, and with signs of investment capital seeping down from China, it seems unlikely the economy is going to slow, let alone 'crash'.

One of the banks major problems is that they simply refuse to acknowledge the true value of their assets. A case in point is the huge number of reposessed houses that they have on their books, which have deteriorated to the point of being unsaleable. They continue to value these at full market value on their books, which makes for nice reading of course. In reality, these properties are now worth only land value (whatever that may be) less demolition costs, which would make a huge difference in the asset figure of all the banks here, IF they were only honest enough to admit it.

I suggest that Thailand cleans up it's own act in respect of immigration policies before it whines about the policies of developed, first world countries.

And remember you are comparing a banana country with one of the foremost countries in the western world.

Bottom line is that there ain't no comparison.

Couldn't agree more.........EXCEPT that.........

Seem to remember Thaksin was over there recently!! While we are talking about corruption, dishonesty, and undesirables, if they let HIM in, they must be pretty lax...haha

Bill

Safe, Thai, and Bank in the same sentence??

Com'n, you know better than that...........

I have a lot of trouble working out why these dimwits go to such ridiculous lengths to avoid getting a proper visa for Thailand before leaving home. It is way beyond me. The consequences, and problems arising out of arriving here with no visa, far outweigh the getting of a standard visa before entering Thailand

Dr.

It's just another case of people always thinking they know better, and can be clever enough to avoid the regs, and thinking THEY will get away with it, while us lesser mortals are stupid enough to try and abide by the rules.

I mean, how many times have people been "advised" not to overstay here, or not to keep coming in on back to back VOA's? Will they listen?

Mind blowing mentality!

I am confident that many of us would rate Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra as one of the world's most able statesmen. Thailand is a difficult country to govern as it has so many political parties, but Thaksin has in a sense put himself above the political fray by being able to communicate directly with the man in the street or the women in the rice paddy.

Under Thakin's stong leadership Thailand has emerged out of the 1997 Asian meltdown with the second highest GDP growth rate in the region. In our opinion, Thais have every right to be proud of their Prime Minister. Indeed, his Thai Rak Thai Party continues to lead in the opinion polls.

And by the way for those of you who dare critize Thaksin for the breakdown in negotiations over purchase of an interest in the Liverpool football team, please remember that he was doing it to help enhance interest in the game amongst young people -- so that one day Thailand might become a real sports powerhouse. When the negotitions became bogged down because of the greediness of the vendors, the Prime Minister quite correctly backed off. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Samran. Maybe he is talking about someone else. Nobody in their right mind, (or anyone who knows anything about Thailand) could possibly be that mis-informed!! Quite the most astonishingly misguided post I have seen for a long time!

You have it right Jeff. Be aware of the things that can possibly happen, and learn from other peoples experiences. Don't be blinded by the pretty faces and know that they can turn very ugly. It doesnt happen to everyone, but it DOES HAPPEN. Renting is certainly the way to go for the first few years, as much of a pain as it is sometimes. Best of luck to you.

I refuse to live in fear of phantom gun bearing relatives created out of whole cloth by the occasional fear mongering Thaivisa forum posting

Phantom??...Oh Dear. Looks like we have got another one who knows it all.

You have obviously never been the situation, so how on earth can you give advice based on...what you have never experienced!!

It happens here a lot, so don't try and MISLEAD the guy, when he needs to be informed of ALL possibilities!

If you want to be equal to a Thai,then you will have to do it somewhere else as it will never happen here. and if you don't like it,then stay away from here,as we don't need no none raising ###### and making it worse.

Couldn't agree more.

You DO NOT have much in the way of rights here, and you NEVER WILL!!

Leave sleeping dogs etc......

Would have thought the best advice if you are thinking of trying to buy a house in Thailand is....DON'T!!

Regardless of how many pieces of paper, legallly binding documents, and leases you have, if anything happens to your Thai partner, and the family want you out, THEY WILL GET YOU OUT.

It won't be any good holding up a lease when they are holding up a gun!!

I was not asked for anything from the Embassy at all. Just the letter from Immigration confirming address.

Took all documents to Udon dept, and presented UK Driving licence (car) They had never seen a UK licence before, and NO ONE could read English, so they gave up and gave me a Thai Licence.

I made a casual enquiry about Motor-Bike Licence (which I have never had) and they said, "Oh no problem. If you can drive a car you can ride a motor-bike"....hahahaha. Got both licences and came away laughing!

The Thais surpass everybody but Japan and Germany when it comes to punctuality

They are sticklers for quality control, and ......

Maybe an idea to actually COME to Thailand for a while before making these sort of comments, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Totally unbelievable!

One does need an affidavit from a local embassy to get a Thai driver's license, but the due diligence on the embassy's part was, "Where do you live?" and then they issued me the form

Guess it depends where you are.

Certainly NOT required in Udon Thani.

I do not think taskins wish to own part of liverpool will go ahead now, with the information now released about the use of public funds, and the backlash in the uk, as well as a public bid by a liverpool supporter.

with that deal down the tubes, a crackdown on english football shirts will fade into the distance.

I hope mr T has a big tantrum when he realises that his gambit to move attention away from his and the governments inability to actually govern, backfires in a big way.

I hope the thais view it as a huge loss of face for mr T and his cohorts when this deal fails..

Mr T. was always heading for a fall, with his persistant view that everybody else is stupid, and no one will ever notice what he is up to. Only hope that the Thai people catch on in time for the next election......if he lasts that long!!

Who is this jerkwater Pepe' guy, is his sir name "Shinawatra", if so you are in the wrong room pal. :ph34r

Not even going to bother anymore. Either a severe case of rose coloured specs, or a complete wind-up!

Ken,

I think I'm pretty clear on the pitfalls of living in Thailand. I have spent a lot of time traveling and much of it in SEA.

Do I understand that you don't think Thailand is a wonderful place to live?

What do you mean by things are becoming a fine balance?

Sorry, but if you were to ask anyone who has lived here for any length of time, I think you will find that you really CAN NOT know what it is like living here until you actually do it! No matter how much travelling you do, there are many things that do not become apparent until you start to put down roots...finding a house, dealing on a business level with the Thais, in respect of landlords, building contractors, utilities, etc getting official documents...ie. driving licence etc....and much much more.

No, I do not think Thailand is a "wonderful place to live" For me it has advantages yes, and at the moment, the "balance" is on Thailands side, but....not as much as it used to be, and if the present administration continues as it is, and the attitude of the Thais continues to increase in its anti farang sentiment, then the time will come when it may be time to move on.

Before telling everybody how wonderful Thailand, and the Thais are compared to your own country, you might actually try LIVING here!!

Yes, some things may be better here, but it is becoming a very fine balance, and you would do well to keep this in mind before you move here permanently.