Esso49

3 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Would the son have a Thai birth certificate, even if he were born in Thailand? Father Dutch and Mother Cambodian (at the time).   If he does have a Thai birth certificate, then surely he is deemed a Thai citizen, with/without a passport. What more is necessary?

As Ubonjoe said any child born in Thailand will be issued with a Thai birth certificate, but it does not make them Thai.

They are not Thai citizens because Thailand  primarily utilizes a nationality doctrine called “jus sanguinis” which is the law of the blood, that's a rough translation. . If neither one of the parents are Thai, as is the reality in this instance as the Father is Dutch and the Mother Cambodian at the time of the birth, then the child is not a Thai citizen.

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I pinned it so it will stay at the top of the page since it is available again.

Link for petition that has 30 signatures now. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120

Thanks and signed

2 minutes ago, spambot said:

I got my income letter yesterday from BE. I used bank account, P60 and pension statement originals scanned in electronically from UK so I could sent to BE online.

 

I am going to immigration tomorrow for O visa conversion from VE - are print out's acceptable or do they need to see the originals that need to be sent from UK?

 

And as this thread is about the BE stopping certification of income,  what are you plans for next year when you will not be able to get it from the BE ?

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

 Just a thought,

.........the requirement is a letter from the British Embassy, well its doesnt state BE Bangkok so couldnt it be got from Laos ?? Or other BE ? Or are they saying ALL BE are stopping the service ?? in which case that would be way more than 3000.

Well just took a look at what they do in Singapore High Commision and it's not a great deal.  However there was this link that has potential in the future perhaps https://www.gov.uk/get-document-legalised 

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

So those same people will just falsify their statements for the IO now.

Too true and that was the root of the problem initially perhaps. Plus it appears the British Embassy are now sending slightly differently worded emails out to some TV members that are also grammatically wrong ????

Just now, soalbundy said:

No swearing, No signature, I show the original letters from my two pension suppliers and a screen shot of my internet banking account showing the two amounts being deposited plus passport, it all goes into the computer where my previous applications are stored and the letter is printed out in English showing the amount in Euro and Baht.

Seems like another very efficient process.  To difficult  for the British Embassy I guess to adopt a similar system. Tell me, from your experience, is the German Embassy staffed by German Nationals in the main or is it,  like the British Embassy, staffed mainly by locals ?

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Excellent post and research.  It should be noted that the  US: UK and Thailand are signatories of the Convention and as such accept the fact that Statutory Declarations are legal instruments.  

 

IMHO- if an applicant  signs and swears an Oath that what they are stating is true, it should be accepted as such with the provision that , if found otherwise, the applicant then becomes  subject to prosecution under both the home countries law (US, UK) and Thai Law.

 

To me, based upon all of this- there is no reason for Thailand NOT to accept the declaration and no reason for any Embassy not to issue the letter/Statutory Declaration.

 

Also, remember that a stat dec can be made for many other things- such as  legal documents; financial matters; attesting to veracity of income to obtain a mortgage-loan.  I have done many for things other than Thai Imm and so have others.

Thaidream, That seems the way to go to satisfy the requirements and well stated. As a Brit I find it amassing that the BE managed for years to "buck the system" by allowing people to email documents for them to then issue this certificate of income. As I said in another post I would be quite happy to provide them with original documents to substantiate my income submission but they simply did not want them.

Clearly this, has many have already said,  opened the system up to abuse. Also as many others likewise stated,  if you have original documents to enable you to honestly obtain a certificate of income, then no worries.

Who knows how many have have bucked the system up to now ? How many have used VISA agents to do likewise ?  It is probably these folk who should be the most worried.  However unless there really is change coming to Immigration,  led by "Big Joke" to stop the corruption within the Thai system, then I guess these VISA agents will unfortunately continue to flourish by providing a ways and means for people to buck the system.

Perhaps if the application costs for extensions were altered so that the application for retirement extensions were say 50,000 baht then that in itself may be a deterrent for those attempting to cheat, whilst allowing the extension due to marriage to remain as is.  This which would not impact those married with children, whom together with their families actually contribute to the future good of Thailand rather than the profits of beer bars in many cases perhaps often frequented by single retirees judging by many posts on TV.

11 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

"would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year"

Sound like your dreaming! Let's see next year? lol

Your crazy if you think they would do anything especially after loss of face with bad press from the BE.

IF anything they will double down on the current systems in place.

As I said "Let's see next year".   

17 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Are you suggesting that the income letter method is the method preferred by fraudsters?

 

I would like to see how that works when the BE asks to see pension slips and/or bank statements. They don't accept rental contracts, work agreements or any other bits of paper that only suggest a revenue stream either.

 

Recently, I have used printed UK bank statements as well as a downloaded version when the last-quarter printed statement is still in the post. They look identical and they are accepted.

 

Hopefully, my local Immigration Office will accept a printed annual statement of account from my local bank that indicates the regular remittances from overseas totaling in excess of their required minimums, just like they did before.

Fraud, you seem confused. You must be dreaming as my reply never used that word, rather it addressed a factual issue of fund availability.

The income method is my own preferred choice and it is simply done by me providing them (BE) with copies of my UK state pension statement,  copies of my other pension providers statements and/or P60s.   Very simple and factual as every single document has my NI number on it and my Thai address.  If they requested I could of course EMS the originals but the BE never request that only copies via emails. It would be good next time if Thai immigration would accept production of these original documents in lieu of the BE letter, but lets see next year.

3 minutes ago, steve73 said:

There must be quite a few British retirees who use the income method that don't post on here (or elsewhere), and could well be unaware of this change....  I think we all need to bring this change to their attention.

 

I've see many comments here that it won't affect anyone until c. June next year since they can get their income letter up to 6 months early...

But what if they don't realize until they turn up at the BE a few days before they're planning on extending their visa, only to be told no.. And by then it'll be too late to bring in the funds and season them. 

And that is assuming also that they have the funds to bring in.  Chances are is that that is the reason they use the income method because simply they do not have that amount of money available.

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum... I would like to find the good figures (Google doesn't really helped me) but I really doubt about yours. From what I know, many (most?) expats are not on Retirement or Marriage extension, but on Work visa, Dependent visa, etc. so they don't need this embassy letter. And do you really thing the BE is able to produce 100+ such letters a day ??

So you know between 30 - 60000 expats here in Thailand that allowed you to make that statement ?  Utter nonsense.

Stunning

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Err welcome to Thailand!

He does not say he is in Thailand !   More likely a Loan shark Troll

3 minutes ago, AsiaCheese said:

No idea how things work in Britain (and a bunch of other countries that won't supply an income statement), but if you're getting a pension/social security income, surely that agency (in your homeland) will issue a confirmation letter saying that person XY with social security number nnnn and born on .... receives the amount of nnn £/€/$/whatever monthly?

They do. But the issue is that the Thai authorities have requested a letter to confirm such income from the British Embassy, rather than just accepting the confirmation letters from the pension providers in the UK. It is this letter that the British Embassy now say they will not be issuing in the future.

8 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

I knew something like this would happen and it's because there is no clear cut way to define income for many people. 

A lot of people don't realize the Thai immigration is a very backward beaurocracy still living in the 19th century in terms of thinking about what income actually is. The fact they they are "demanding" foreign embassies certify income just shows you how woefully incompetent Thai immigration are. (not to mention they expect others to do their work for them). 

And I certainly don't think any embassy can verify a person's income either because the way the tax codes are set up in many countries means that income can manipulated by many tax loopholes or one time events (eg. capital gains or losses). 

 

Sometimes I think it is a bit strange that they did/do not request the letter confirming income was required to be translated into Thai.  Whilst many of the IO's have a reasonable command of spoken English, I wonder if their reading is as good  and if that where to be the case, do IO's , or have IO's just accepted the figures in GBP/AUD/US etc .  Now perhaps all those documents, perhaps only one was needed, have now been looked into in greater depth, and rather taking the figure at face value, enquiries as to the veracity of that statement has perhaps led to a string of events being put in motion ? Of course we don't know that answer or ever will.

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

wrong, the UK Embassy have stated that Thai Immigration will no longer accept the letters, go start at page one of this thread

 

This thread could become the Thai expat version of "Snakes and Ladders".   Up the ladder and down the Snakes. The only difference is that there will never be any winners or losers on a forum

1 minute ago, roiethome said:

I very much doubt that Makro and Lotus will be closing any outlets if more farangs leave Thailand. The farang spend is a small amount overall. Only the small bars with 100% farang clientele will be the losers.

About time the loopholes were tightened up and those that cant fully comply with the regulations should be forced to leave.

agreed

8 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

When I went for PR some 30 years ago, a certified letter was needed that I had never been a bad boy in the UK with a Police record.  BE made no checks  "have you ever been in trouble with the police" I was asked. No OK. Letter certified and given to me.

Exactly my point to.  The Thai immigration requirement is that they need a certified letter from your embassy as proof of income.  As we know immigration have previously accepted letters from the BE even though no checks to validate the authenticity of what had been provided to them.  The same as they did for your police record.  Given the apparent large number of people who flout Thai laws using visa agents or provide faked documents to receive a letter from their Embassy etc perhaps the Thai authorities have now decided to address the issue.  About time too by my book.  As you have PR then I am sure you have become more than most aware of the scams and cheating that has been going on in the last 30 years

Given that then perhaps the Thai authorities have perhaps nabbed one or two dubious "retirees" here and asked for further information on their income and an IO has requested further documentary evidence ( which they are entitled to do ) and hence suspect, or otherwise found out that the BE and other Embassies have not been undertaking due process. 

We do not really know the answer to this but if it stops dubious visa agencies, some of whom are no doubt run by dubious people, stops possible thousands of others who  should have not been allowed to stay, then that is a good thing.  Nothing wrong in following the rule of law.  Yes we know we are in a country where sometimes things are not as it seems but two wrongs never make a right. IMHO.  And by the way it is not just a Farang thing either so people should not get too hung up on that matter.