KevinboyCM

51 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Maybe a silly question- but does it specifically say in the lease agreement that the owner is responsible for structural damage ?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

not a silly question. answer: it does not so where does that leave us?  But how many farongs here would allow their home to be destroyed by water damage if they could stop it? Sounds like none so far. lol Where I come from that is STUPID. 

I just don't understand why anyone would condone criminal negligent behavior which is what it is here. The owner may not care about her house but I would think she has a responsibility to protect the renter's possessions. Maybe  not. If Thai culture says they can be irresponsible and negligent and not at all helpful in an emergency so be it I guess.

I am stunned not one apologists has been able to explain to me where in my lease it says I have to pay for repairs or where in the law it says a renter is responsible to repair the owner's roof. Or for that matter what is this "Thai culture bs".  What book about Thai culture says the foreigner has to pay to rebuild someone's house he is renting?  And to all those genius' out there who said I should just move how do I do that if it kept raining all night or next couple of nights with rain maybe coming in half a dozen or a dozen damaged roof areas?  

How can it not be the responsibility of the manager or landlord or owner in an emergency ( clearly there was one) not to even bother to respond or get help?  Doesn't say much for the landlord or the owner or the culture if in fact their culture endorses that attitude.  It's pathetic.

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I havnt read the entire thread.

 

If you are renting, the problem with the roof was not of your making. You are not responsible for it or antmy repairs to ot. The owner is. End of story.

However, getting ot resolved is whole different topic.

Thanks. I agree with you. However, for some nutty reason (Thai culture I hear) most of the posters disagree with both of us. And not only that it was a disaster in the making.  Over twelve areas damaged.  Entire crown redone on both house and kitchen (off the house).  Had to throw tarps on top for extra protection.

How about this.  For those of you who know what a lease agreement is and what it means let me ask you this logically.  My lease agreement states I am responsible for monthly fees of water and electric, wifi and TV. NOTHING ELSE.  Nowhere does it say I am responsible for any repairs.  So why is it I am the bad here for not wanting to pay for the flucking roof repair?  
As previously stated I invested 40K of my own money to upgrade the house. I did not bitch about it. Even after I offered to paint the house for free is she supplied the paint and she said no I did it anyway. Didn't ask for a penny.

If I am responsible for repairs why is it not stated in the lease agreement? The rental amount is stated. The duration is stated. So?

So, maybe someone here with a brain can explain to me how it is with nothing in the lease (which for those clueless folks a lease stipulates what I am responsible for) why it is I am expected to rebuild her house?  Try answering the question and stay on point if anyone can.  

Ok so bottom line:  12 pieces of roofing needed in 12 different areas. Size is about 2.5 ft by 4 ft.  The entire crown of the house as well as the entire crown of the kitchen needed to be fixed.  After that they suggested tarping the roof

Costs:

Tree cutting: 2000 baht

Roofing      : 2200 baht

Tarps          :3000 baht

So total 7200 baht

And I just want to say to the genius who said it was not an emergency you were 100% correct. Another hard rain and maybe major flooding in 12 different (maybe more) area of the house. No big deal at all. lol And of course as he suggested just move everything to another spot. Yeah like the king bed would be easy to move.  So for 7200 definitely will make a phone call to an attorney. Probably useless but getting ripped for 7200 plus the stress I'm kinda pissed.  If this is what Thai culture is all about they can keep it. Not my house.  

Totally negligent and stupid on her part. The landlord was worthless. Didn't bother to contact me for 4 days and no help at all. Amazing Thailand.

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Don't exist

Depends what country you apply from.  You can get 9 months from many countries.

21 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The OP signed a three year lease. That says it all.

Yes, I signed a 3 year lease that was requested of me. I would have signed a five year lease. I like the area and I am a wildlife photog so I was fine with it. Your point is what?

As someone else mentioned a lease here is meaningless which I already knew. I can walk whenever I like. 

13 hours ago, robblok said:

I have had a Thai friend go through court she is highly educated and the time it consumed and in the end the outcome was not desirable while it looked good at the onset. You will also have to have a translator and such and English speaking lawyers are not cheap. What can happen is the owner wont show, they can do that multiple days and that just means you lose time and lawyer cost. 

Even if you win who says they will have to pay your cost too or that the owner cant kick you out as the judge sees the situation as unlivable ? 

 

Are you willing to risk all the adverse outcomes and costs just to get your feeling of justice ? If so by all means do so but it will be stressful.

 

Personally I would fix the roof but you have to understand the more money you sink in here the more you can't go back later. (as you sunk in more money). You could also look for a new home and find yourself in the same situation. There are no guarantees here and that just sucks but that is the way how it is.

 

I have given up expecting justice here (even back home courts take forever and justice is not guaranteed). I just roll with it and not stress too much about stuff. 

 

Thai courts are not worthless you can win but in this case i doubt it is worth it.

Ok, so yeah I get it.  No point in going to court over this matter with amount involved. Trust me, I didn't need all the posters to point any of that out to me. lol.   I may not be as bright as all the posters here but an idiot I am not. So, the ONLY left to decide is whether or not to deduct the cost from my rent. A well respected poster (W) suggests I do just that. So what happens if I do it? What are the legal ramifications. I know the owner will not be happy if I do it although the first time I did it I did deduct the cost with no problem.  What does the law say? Can she lock me out? Can she steal my stuff? Can she hire a hitman? I was hoping to hear from someone who had the same type problem but so far have not.

14 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I wish I could find tenants like you,I was brought up in business where

the customer was always right,even if they weren't,where keeping your 

customers happy was a priority,without them you would have no business,

so as soon as my tenants have a problem I fix it,as it's going to need doing 

anyway,if they are happy I am happy,that does not seem to be the Thai way

of running a business,where the mantra seems to be take it or leave it.

 

Send the landlord a letter by EMS,saying that you are pruning HER tree

as its damaging HER house and YOUR belongings and you will be deducting

the cost from your rent,  Good luck     Don't do it without advising her as you could be sued for damaging

regards Worgeordie                             her tree.

                                                         

Well, at least one person here gets it. Yeah, if I had tenants like me I would have bought an apt complex.  The before me did nothing to fix the house.  I spent three days just hosing down and scrubbing the whole inside of the damn house.  So anyway, the tree is pruned. 1500 baht. The roof guy just left. Gonna be 3000 more to fix the roof. Could have been worse.  And of course that assumes the guy who fixes it know <deleted> he is doing. Wouldn't surprise me a week later after next rain it leaks somewhere else. Craftsmanship here is not the best.  So who knows. I'm probably gonna have him throw a tarp over the whole roof after he adds the slabs. Another 3k for a huge tarp so now up to 7500 baht. So 4500 and all the stress. Some genius' here will say 4500 a drop in the bucket. Not the point at all.  So clearly no lawsuit over 4500.

15 minutes ago, transam said:

Reads like you settled in the wrong country mon ami...????...

Clearly correct

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

You need to learn some manners, Nancy is a very well respected lady on here. 

She has only tried to help you, yet you mock her.....Shame on you.

"Learn some manners"?  haha.  I ask for specific advice and I get garbage or no relevant answer. Or I get told to take my meds and go see an insane asylum. Where was  your post to them sir?

There have been well over 100 posts here and Nancy left a nice post BUT she is apparently not paying attention when she states I am going spend 5-10k for a 1500 tree expense. I never said that ANYWHERE.  Show me where I said that?  I'll say it one more time for those who are posting while drunk here.  I would only go to an attorney to ask advice if I thought I could win.  And win what?

I have to fix the roof. I have to pay for it because clearly the nut job owner doesn't care about the damage or getting further damage from rain.  So the question would be to the attorney, A) can I sue to get my money back and/or B) can I sue to make her replace the whole roof if the roof expert says there is severe damage.  And even if he said I would win it would depend on the upfront costs.  Why does anyone here think I or anyone else would upfront an attorney 10k? Nancy as nice as she is failed to mention I was also including those two points which I have repeatedly made.  Now you can go back to your booze.

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

You can make a phone call sure, but do you expect a lawyer to be honest or give you any guarantees ?.

 

You say you are so well off then why worry about the cost of fixing a roof ? You don't need that stress. You have to understand the more trouble you cause the more reason the owner has to end your rent at the end of the rental contract. Even if it cost him rent money face is important in this country.
 

Anyway seems you have become logical and are going to let someone fix the roof and pay for it yourself. The more you rock the boat the more chances you have that your contract will be terminated at the end of your lease and then you have lost it all.

 

I seen your answers and it surely looked if you flamed people and yes you got flamed too.  

 

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

You can make a phone call sure, but do you expect a lawyer to be honest or give you any guarantees ?.

 

You say you are so well off then why worry about the cost of fixing a roof ? You don't need that stress. You have to understand the more trouble you cause the more reason the owner has to end your rent at the end of the rental contract. Even if it cost him rent money face is important in this country.
 

Anyway seems you have become logical and are going to let someone fix the roof and pay for it yourself. The more you rock the boat the more chances you have that your contract will be terminated at the end of your lease and then you have lost it all.

 

I seen your answers and it surely looked if you flamed people and yes you got flamed too.  

 

Some folks have principles and some don't. And just because I am fortunate enough to have retired at 50 doesn't mean I like getting ripped off or cheated. Some people are losers and they have to accept getting flucked over here. I signed a lease. I have honored it. I expect to honor it. I have invested a lot of money to upgrade the place. I did it yes for my enjoyment but any astute owner would surely appreciate a renter who pays his rent on time and makes an investment with his own money and keeps the place looking nice one would think.  If Thais are so worried about saving 'face' why do they rip off the foreigners so much?  I am not a newbie. Been here over 15 yrs but never rented a house.  I get the nickle dime crap. I get they never show up on time or even at all. I get they overcharge you. I get all that. I don't get not wanting to protect your house. Beyond my comprehension.  

So if the tree falls on the house and destroys the whole roof I am expected to repair it?  And if I moved out wouldn't I be breaking the lease?  Gee, do you think they would give me my deposit back?  Anyway, like I said nothing to do tonight. So wasting my time here. Why, I don't know. I wish everyone would stop responding. lol But it is just my nature to respond to witless posts. 

Yeah and as stated have taken many logic classes and done a lot of debating. I doubt any universities here have a debate club as logic does not appear to be anywhere in sight in the Land of S.

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Sorry but you are the only witless person here you have absolutely no idea about courts in Thailand and the costs of such plus duration. Almost everyone here posts against you and they are all witless. You should wonder more about yourself and the state of your wits.

 

If you feel this is a stressful (a leak in your roof) wait till you deal with the Thai courts and start pouring money in a court-case. That is far more stressful and time consuming then what you have gone through and already consider stressful. 

 

You have gotten good advice but because it did not agree with you you flamed everyone who came up with it. 

I never said I was going to court dude.  I was inquiring only. Obviously, I might make a phone call and ask what are my chances. C'mon. Use some common sense. I am not gonna spend 5-10k to collect 4k just like I'm not gonna move out if I have to spend 3-4k after investing 40k.  I understand logic pretty well. Took many classes for my degree. Trust me I ain't that stupid although some you think I am. Don't worry about me. I actually built a huge home and was the GC; I retired at 50 with enough to live on the rest of my life and I owned my own business for 40 yrs.  It was just something I threw out there.  Some folks here don't comprehend much but I appreciate your concerns.

And I do not believe I have flamed anyone unlike a couple of you folk who suggest I need drugs or a visit to an insane asylum.  I simply respond to some of the comments many of which are in fact witless.  No one need respond. Who is forcing you to respond to me?  Get a grip. If yu can't take the reparte move on. I am bored tonight and this is my amusement.

13 minutes ago, rumak said:

Sage advice khun nancy.   unfortunately MANY of the newcomers have no desire to learn the ways of another culture.  They INSIST that the other culture understand why they as a farang are right.  That is why so many of their sentences begin with  " I just don't understand...."   and usually include the word stupid

in their rant.    ah yes,......." stupid is as stupid does ."    ( Forest ) 

Again please explain to me why not protecting major damage to your home is NOT stupid wherever it is or whatever culture is involved. Are you suggesting that Thai culture doesn't care about protecting their valuables? Can't have it both ways can you? And yes, I do not understand that at all. And no one has explained that to me.  I doubt wealthy Thais would act the same way. I doubt they would be that stupid.

46 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

From the OP - "as well as at least a 1000 man hours the last year in fixing up the house"

One year 365 days = 8,760 hours

8 hours a day, 5 days a week would require 25 weeks of solid work to attain 1000 hours.

 

 

Another genius at math.  I stand corrected. Maybe well over 1000 hours for 14 months living here so far.  I am retired. I like it here because I am a nature photographer and it is very difficult to find a house to rent so when I found it I took it and had to work very hard to make it a nice place. For example it is an old wood house with wood flooring which have gaps in it. Well, I like to photograph bugs but I don't want them in the house so at first I caulked the entire place. The caulk dried out and fell thru. I then used toilet paper thinking I would caulk over that and it would hold but the paper fell thru. Finally, I said fluck it I will tape over it. At first the tape I used was too wide so I pulled it all up and re did it with less wide tape. I then painted over it but I didn't use a primer so had to primer over the paint and then repaint it. This took two months to complete. I then sealed the walls with caulk and tape and newspapers.  I fixed all the screens. I fixed the refrigerator. I put in a new skylight. I painted the bathroom.  I painted the porch. (I had told the owner give me the paint and I will paint the whole place for free-not interested so yeah I did it anyway).  I built shelves for the closet and put in racks for clothes. I put in a custom rug for the floor. I sealed the ceiling in there.  I caulked around all ten windows in the house. I caulked around the entire ceiling borders. I fixed the outside kitchen. Plumbing a mess. Floor a mess. counters a mess. All new counters and painted the whole place. I installed all new electric.  I installed new drapes.  The grounds were full of garbage and junk and rotting wood. And tree branches everywhere ( about one rai).  I put tarps on the gates.  Many days worked over 8 hours.  It took a week to clean the whole interior of the house. I had to rewash it all three times.  The steps had mold on them.  A lot of the wood had mold.  The concrete floors between the main house and the kitchen needed work.  I netted in the whole kitchen including the ceiling. Took a month. I had to find an cut bamboo for support.  It goes on and on. The interior of the house looks great now. Paint, paintings,rugs, lighting. Yeah, when I move out somebody is gonna get a nice house albeit a leaky roof.  lol

35 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Your "newish" condos may actually have been covered under some sort of warranty from the builder or developer.  Some of my friends have purchased condos in new buildings and repairs are carried out by the building developer during the first year or so.

 

It's really more common for tenants to take on the repair of minor things, especially if under 1000 baht.  The OP is going to spend more than that in consulting a lawyer about his "rights".  Frankly, I don't have the time or energy to hassle my owner with every little repair, like replacing a leaking faucet or blowing out the drain line of a dripping aircon unit, especially since I use autopay to transfer the rent payment from my account to his every month.  He gave us a good rate and long lease, so I know we're getting a good deal.

I agree. I also use autopay. I wouldn't hassle the owner for small stuff. 40k in upgrades and repairs on my end I don't consider small stuff in just one year but roof damage can be a huge problem. I'll know just how bad hopefully tomorrow. Only had to contact with a dozen folks so far. Three showed up. One did the tree (and damaged the roof because he was shorthanded).  So hopefully tomorrow I will know more. I'm sure my audience will be waiting with baited breath for my post.

1 hour ago, tifino said:

 

if I cop infestation, a positive outlook results in my goldfish getting an endless supply of bugs for their food...

 

 

in your case, i'd be profiting from the falling fruit... making and selling off the jam

 

 

besides with Insurance for a renter... you'd only be covered for 'Contents'

Come on over.  I'll split the profits.

18 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I've rented 2 newish condo's in CM Nancy, and any repairs were always carried out and paid for by the owner.

 

The OP is renting a cheap place and so it's understandable the owner doesn't want to pay for ongoing repairs.

I also have a condo rented in CM. I wasn't gonna mention it because some here think they are genius' and they have all the answers and yes they have done repair work (new toilet) and not billed me.  Just depends on your lease agreement and I guess if you have a smart owner. You keep renters you take care of. You screw them you move out. They lose rent. 

8 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I've rented 2 newish condo's in CM Nancy, and any repairs were always carried out and paid for by the owner.

 

The OP is renting a cheap place and so it's understandable the owner doesn't want to pay for ongoing repairs.

Right but not cheap here. Actually a little above average. In a remote area.  So I appreciate the owner does not want to spend money for repairs except before I moved in they agreed to fix the dual gate which they did (comedy of errors. the guys had to come out three times to line up first the inside sprockets and then the outside sprockets. too funny for words. guess poor workmanship is thai culture as well).  They also agreed to fix two doors damaged by the previous renter (they did not fix either door).  And respectfully disagree that the owner doesn't care about all the improvements I made at my cost. I think maybe because of all the improvements (sealed the floors and walls, 8k for new electric, 8k drapes, paint, fixed the plumbing outside kitchen area, netted the entire kitchen in etc etc) as well as maintaining the place I think she just thinks because I invested so much fluck me I'll pay to do it myself. Pretty piss poor attitude if you ask me but this is Thailand and yeah she got me. Like someone said I do have a choice and it cost me 1500 so far for the trees and to get a tarp up there may cost me a couple thousand more so "logically" if I spent 40k in upgrades another 3-4k I'm gonna move out?  That would be "stupid"on my part.  Gotta assume she gambled and I lost but if I could sue her and win the she loses. Somebody out there in the drug haze just maybe gets my point. Or not. Like Melania said, Ï don't care".  And it's fun to debate with the witless folks sometimes.

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

This is why it's a good idea for newcomers to rent condos in well-managed buildings where they can simply go to the building office when something breaks and the office staff will arrange for a plumber, aircon contractor, electrician or whomever to come to their unit, often the same day to make the needed repair.  They will still have to pay for the repair as the renter, because after all this is Thailand and everyone knows that tenants pay for repairs if something in the condo breaks during their residency, but at least there is someone English-speaking in the condo office who can arrange for a good repair person to come quickly, charge a fair price and serve as a translator, if needed.  Also to try to explain to the tenant why they have to pay for the repair and maybe help them to manage the owner if the owner objects to deductions from the rent for minor repairs.

 

Meanwhile, while living in that first condo, the newcomer will have an opportunity to study Thai and learn about Thai culture with other newcomers who are going through these same type of eye-opening learning experiences discovering that they aren't in Oz, Kansas or Manchester anymore.

Good advice. But I also think when you enter the country you should get a pamphlet explaining that you have no rights here; you get no service here; the landlord cares not if his house is burning down and in an accident it will be your fault. lol

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

He is probably a short timer, not much experience yet. He will learn that western logic does not work and the legal route is long and costly. He has a short term problem and the legal route is long term. The owner is uncooperative and will stay uncooperative. He should just accept it as is or change houses maybe getting similar problems again. 

I get what  you are saying. I just have a hard time understanding why anyone would allow their home to be destroyed knowing they could stop it from happening. Is this typical of Thai culture? As far as the legal system goes I get that too. I was thinking more in terms of after I pay for the repairs (tree already fixed) can I sue to get my money back?  I would think anyone with common sense would see things my way especially a judge whom I think would have some amount of common sense. I intend to deduct the costs from the rent.

And if the Thais have no concept of logic how does anything get done properly or fairly or legally?

So the only question is if I pay my rent on time can they lock me out for deducting the costs?

2 minutes ago, madmen said:

"Logic does not come into this and should not be of your concern if the owner wants to neglect his house if you move out."

 

This more than anything. OP is using western logic to justify his argument. He is winding himself up over it and it's interesting to watch. I guess he learnt his lesson just like the every farang has learnt here over time.

 

Well, you are sort of correct.  I am learning that there is no logic here. And what I am inferring here is that it was stupid of me to expect Thais to honor a lease or want to protect their house. And more than that the court system is useless. So why even have a court system.  A friend of mine suggested going to the village head. He said educated Thais might have some logic and see things my way and put pressure on the owner to fix the roof.  

Contrary to what Dante said I call water pouring in to your room from the ceiling an emergency situation.  Then again maybe he likes to swim in water.  

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

You always have a choice.

You made the investment without due diligence in making sure that the owner/manager would agree to compensate you.

Come on a Forum, ask for help, and denigrate those who give you sound advice ?

Go ahead - keep throwing more money at what is - at the end of the day - not your problem.

So if a tree falls on the roof and destroys the whole roof I should assume I pay for it? Surely you jest. Due diligence. Hey, I have it in my lease they pay for all plumbing problems. The day after I moved in the water pump broke. The landlord did come with a plumber, fixed it and billed me 350 baht. I didn't bitch about it. I let it go. Due diligence doesn't seem to matter here. As one poster stated a lease means nothing here. 

Look, all I needed was some help. Too much to ask for from the landlord?  Apparently so.  And I never denigrated the whole Thai people. Only the stupid owner for not wanting to protect her house. And I am still waiting to hear why it is NOT stupid to not want to protect your house from serious damage when you are warned ahead of time and could do something about it. 

2 hours ago, Dante99 said:

What was the emergency exactly?

 

Leaky roof problems are usually temporarily resolved by moving things so they do not get wet or more wet and placing buckets or tubs to catch the dripping water.

Dante. you are clearly a brilliant poster. Suppose it kept raining relentlessly all night or the next couple of days?  Think that might then be an emergency dude? In case you are not aware water expands and goes wherever it chooses increasing damage to the ceiling board etc. Comprende?

11 minutes ago, rumak said:

that bit of wisdom is already more than you can comprehend (to use your word)

 

with you the saying     I can explain it to you but i cannot understand it for you     APLLIES

 

keep fighting everyone  (landlord, stupid thailand,  and all the posters (who know a lot more than you do),

because...well of course,  we just do not "get" what you are saying.    Up to you  ????

 

you are not going to "win" every situation in life.........learn and take your losses.  You hopefully will gain in experience so you can post some helpful thoughts to others , like in

about ten years

Ok. I'll move out. The owner will not fix the house. The rain will destroy the interior. I apologize. That is not stupid. It is brilliant. I stand corrected.