KevinboyCM

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is nothing to explain, my dude.

Thailand is a sovereign nation and has the right to set their immigration rules however they like, "logical" or not.

The vast majority of nations in the world (including the USA) offer no visa at all for foreigners wanting to settle there permanently for purpose of retirement.

Just learn the rules here, follow the rules if you want to stay, and the rules offend your delicate sensibilities too much … go directly to airport. 

 

haha. Good point. Never argue a point with someone who has no logical ability to comprehend the dialog. I was just stating the facts not the fact that Tland doesn't have the right to make up illogical laws like the TM30.  What is the point of a TM30 anyway?

3 hours ago, iamariva1957 said:

 

The US is one of a few countries that do not require backup proof of income when applying for an Income Affidavit letter (under notary services). Some countries ask for said backup documents... but they are usually not checked... no searches are made... or verification undertaken regarding said documents. For that takes time, effort, manpower, and at least a week to sift through the stack ... that is sure to be on their desks. Hence, we like to see them but will take your word for it as you are swearing to what is contained within the Income Affidavit which under the law you are responsible for any falsehoods record in said document and could, therefore, be prosecuted under the laws of your country.  How that would happen is anyone's guess. 

 

As for Thailand losing money from this ... oh come on. Thailand will do just fine as it has always done. They have the Two Price System that is alive and well and works just fine.

 

Homelessness is an issue and I agree with you. If those individuals are found then in my opinion they should be the responsibility of the individual's embassy/consulate... or the UN or perhaps an NGO operation. If they hold a passport then that country should supply all the help that they can to resettle these individuals and get them back home. Actually we should all be willing to help in someway... but I get it... not always easy and not always the best of ideas regarding self-protection.

Maybe you can explain to me how Thailand does not lose any  money from someone who may be worth a couple hundred thousand US dollars and is not allowed to renew their extension of stay because of a technicality?  Or even someone with no money other than their social security. I would bet 50% or more of the Americans would no longer qualify. How many US folks apply for an extension using the consulate letter? 

Gonna be a whole lot of folks expelled IMO if they enforce it with everyone.

The whole thing is a sham. If you show  you have income of 65K baht a month (which does not have to be deposited in a Thai bank) you are ok but if you have a million dollars in the bank (verifyable) you are sol. Makes no sense like anything else here.

And of course they aren't gonna verify the documents but the applicant still has to come up with a document. Not easy to fake a document IMO.

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Its a serious violation of US-Law to do that.  I would not do it, and I doubt most would. 

 

And imagine what would happen if the IRS got a hold of those affadavits?  There may be some legal-restriction preventing that from happening now, but that could change.  The fakers could choose between admitting lying to the IRS, or making a false-statement to a Consular official. 

 

Likely, most will just start paying agents to fake the money for them, as countless-thousands of others already do.  That is what Immigration wants most, after all.

 

 

Yes - and especially those who live here, at least in part, due to the lower cost of living - to stretch their pensions/savings.  But, the high-number increases the need for agents, so ...

 

 

For Brits and others, some allow proven gross income - not net.  Imagine a rental with overhead costs - those folks can just sum the rental income sans costs.  Therefore, many who have the so-called "proven money" Embassy affidavits from other countries' consular officials don't actually have that much net-income.  

 

The law says "income" - not "income sent to Thailand."  So, yes, that should be fine, by law.  There was a time awhile back when some offices were threatening that "Next year you have to show it was transferred into Thailand" - even made them sign a letter agreeing to this - but I do not recall anyone reporting they followed through on that threat. 

 

I would go by the assumption CM would honor proof of your income into a foreign-account as backup-proof for the embassy affidavit.  But do let us know what transpires, as this could help others deal with that office in the future.

Yeah, the whole thing is a joke. If they accept your pension money as proof (in a foreign acct) but they won't accept a million bucks in a foreign acct <deleted>.  lol  Amazing Thailand.  I'll let the forum know what happens. Thanks again.

Sorry to be a pest but I thought of another question. The 65k baht. Do you have to show it was deposited monthly in to a Thai bank account or for example if it is a pension or social security from the government but goes in to your foreign bank acct is that ok? thanks

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Australia does not ask for proof. There are others as well. Also many that ask for proof do not verify what is provided.

Not sure why you keep writing $2500. It is 65k baht and that is less $2100 at current rates.

I changed it to $2100. I  stand corrected there but I have friends from Australia, Germany, France and England all say you need proof. Whatever.  Anyway thanks for all the help. Gotta just hope they accept the money from my original 1 million baht I deposited years ago and have been living off. If not maybe time to move to VN.  lol

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They are not the only one. Many other countries do them as affidavits, sworn statements and statutory declarations.

US embassies and consulates are not allowed by law to confirm or verify anything is the reason they are done as affidavits.

I think you are incorrect. The other countries require actual proof before they hand out the affidavits etc. The US consulate requires nothing. They have to know it is a scam in a lot of cases as surely so do the Thai Immigration dept. Just saying.

Of course requiring $2100 a month in income is a joke as many folks live on much less than that. 

I've often wondered why the Thai government allowed the Americans to simply go to the consulate and fill out a form saying they had income of 65K a month without any proof. I think they were the only country to do that.  Clearly everyone had to know 50-75% were lying.  So now if they are gonna ask for proof I wonder why you would even need the letter then.  I wonder if Tland got a cut of the money from the Americans. hmm

And for sure there is gonna be a mass exodus of Americans IMO. And a huge loss of money to Tland economy.  I wonder what they are gonna do with the folks with no money-throw them in jail?

6 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

Yes, I meant 10 years or more of one year extensions. And thanks for your help.  

So here is a question. What is the grace period if any for being late to renew?  If it is 10 days or so I can still make two deposits. And/or would it be possible to get an extension of stay and renew the one year extension within that period?  Looking for a way out here.

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

I have not heard of past retirement-based extensions or Non-O based-on-retirement Visas being accepted.  I am guessing you mean 10-years of getting annual extensions from immigration, rather than Visas from consulates (this affects seasoning, below).

 

 

No.  Applicants have used the "proof of income" letter as "proof of retirement."  Maybe another type of letter will also work, but this is the one I have seen referenced repeatedly in this forum, for this purpose, as being accepted there.

 

When applying at Savannakhet, the applicant needs to show a bank-statement (can be a foreign-bank's statement) and embassy income-letter - even if your financials are met entirely by one or the other.

 

 

If this is an extension tacked onto a previous extension from immigration (versus an entry from a Non-O Visa or Non-OA Visa from a consulate), then you need 3 months seasoning - not two.  The two months seasoning is only if it is your first "extension based on retirement" since beginning the process - starting with a Non-O stamp ("conversion" - not extension) or Non-O Visa entry.

 

 

This makes no difference when doing an extension in Thailand.  I'm not saying it should make no difference - only that it won't.  If the money isn't in Thailand it won't help you at immigration-offices in Thailand.

 

 

Maybe.  The office who is asking for proof (I suspect for reasons not on the "up and up") is defining what qualifies, so they are the only ones who can say for sure.  If it were me, I would start just supplying the published requirements.  If they ask for proof of the income, try showing a pattern of withdrawals matching the min-income and see if it works.

Yes, I meant 10 years or more of one year extensions. And thanks for your help.  

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

There is no rule about how long the paper-trail for the income proof needs to exist, because the rules do not state that you need to prove anything beyond an embassy-letter.  Some offices are adding their own special-rule here (not uncommon), so they dictate terms on their rule. 

 

 

Proving the income might also allow for showing ATM-withdrawal receipts from your non-Thai bank-account.  But the local office can make up anything on their made-up rule, so it would be up to what they feel like accepting.

 

Even in cases of well-defined rules, local-offices (and entry-checkpoints) often ignore or change the "real rules" to what they "feel" the rules "really should" be.  With this office-specific rule, there are no published guidelines to start with.

 

It's not about doing the "smart", or "logical", or "fair", or "best for the country" thing, unfortunately.  Once one realizes what they are really dealing with at some Immigration offices (CM at the top of the list), the runarounds they invent all make sense.

 

 

The purpose of "new" office-specific, undocumented-rules, is to force applicants to agents, so that those who have allowed the "no money extensions via agent" system to be ongoing for years, can get their reward.  They even turn a blind-eye to public advertisement of this system.

 

To give you an idea of how serious the CM office, in particular, is about getting their agent-money cut.  We now have reports that they are refusing 90-day reports from those who correctly submit change-of-address forms when moving to the CM area.  Even those who apply without agents in other areas are not allowed to do 90-day reporting after they legally move to CM. 

 

So, if an agent offers you a retirement-extension package through another office (whose IOs are cheaper to pay-off), keep this pitfall in mind - the agent would need to submit fraudulent 90-day reports - reporting an address where the foreigner is not living in the other office's territory - for the full year.

 

 

As someone else pointed out, you can only use bank-funds outside Thailand when applying for a Visa at a consulate outside Thailand.  If you were to go to Savannakhet for a Single-Entry Non-O Visa based on retirement (the best nearby choice, IMO), you could supply an embassy-letter (to prove you are retired, doesn't have to be a lot of income), plus a bank-statement from your Foreign Bank showing 800K Baht worth of funds in any convertible currency.

 

In the last 30-days of the 90-days permitted-stay from entering on that Visa, you could apply for a 1-year extension-of-stay in Chang Mai with 2-months seasoning on the money in-the-bank (in a Thai bank), and 3-months thereafter. 

 

The only way to stay long-term without putting funds in a Thai bank, would be to go to your home-country and go through the "Non-OA" 1-year Multiple-Entry Visa process.  But, unless you are a savy investor, the costs of medical, police-check, and a unnecessary-trip likely out-strip the ROI-losses of 800K Baht in a Thai Bank for the 3 months necessary.  You also avoid the trouble and expense of an embassy letter by not using income.

I have had a "retirement" visa for ten years now. So if I showed them those expired visas, do you think I still need to get a letter from the Consulate to prove I am retired? 

This letter you are referring to is different than the proof of income letter, correct?  What a mess. Let me try this one more time.

My visa expires on Nov 19. I only have about 100000 baht in the Thai bank. I get about 40000 baht a month from my pension so am about 25000 baht short. But still too late to either put in 800k  or show 2 months of seasoning.  I have well over the 800k needed but in a US bank.  So let me ask this. When I needed money I would use my thai bank atm. And I would probably use over 25000 baht a month from that acct. Does anyone think that would suffice?  Thanks

56 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, sure.

What office is he using? He can probably get his answer right here if it's a major office. 

Chiang Mai

7 minutes ago, SkyNets said:

The op knows a lot, but not to much about planning lol

I'm not "to" good at spelling either. lol

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure what you're on about harping about banked funds that are NOT in Thailand. Get your mind away from that. It will never help you one bit for any kind of bank account application IN Thailand (full 800K or combination).

That said, you can go back to your home country and get an O-A visa showing the required banked funds there. But that's under the topic -- STARTING OVER. 

got it, thanks. And I wasn't harping but a lot of misinformation here posted so far. 

2 minutes ago, SkyNets said:

The op knows a lot, but not to much about planning lol

Yeah well I agree. Gee I wonder how many guys lie about making 65K baht on their consular letter?  In my case I have between $100K and $1000000 in the bank so one would think it would be enough to get a renewal. I did not want to transfer another 800K because the rate is so low now. Get it? This proof of income thing is new. 

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It sounds like you're asking if money seasoning rules are applied to COMBINATION applications (as they always are to full 800K bank applications). Well, that's a can of worms because under the national written rules they shouldn't be but in real life, they generally ARE. 

Showing cash outside Thailand is as you presumed irrelevant.

So to do this legally, yes, you would need to start all over. 

So your question would then be, how to start all over.

Tons of existing threads on that. 

 

Another option might be using so called visa agents. I don't know how that works in CM but in Pattaya it's not exactly breaking news that many people pay such agents to get extension applications approved that don't really meet the rules. 

haha surely you jest. Unfortunately there is no corruption in Chiang Mai, or is there?

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only for the money to be in the bank.

Here is what the police order states.

Well, if you read it yourself it clearly states "deposit funds" must be maintained for a minimum of 60 days or 2 months which was one question I asked so that clears that up.  So again then one could have $1 million in a bank somewhere and not be able to renew their visa for one year because they only take the money as needed. Beyond stupid if you ask me.  

Any soi dog or any dog let loose by their stupid owners is a potential killer. When are the Thai people gonna wake up?  Or at least the government?  It's a disgrace. Those dogs should be set down as well as the owner. 

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

1200 is around 37500 baht a month. multiply that by 12 and see whats short of 800,000 baht.

To my knowledge there is nothing to say the savings must be seasoned 2 or 3 months when using the combination method. Ask your Imm' office.

That will not work. You must have the whole amt seasoned either 2 or 3 months prior to the x date of visa. 

Just now, ubonjoe said:

There is nothing in the rules saying how long the money has to be going into the bank. Two month would be good for a start.

You could move some money in now and again in couple of weeks. And then just before you apply for the extension. 

You could apply for the extension a few days before your current one expires.

I believe you are incorrect. It is either 2 months or 3 months prior to the expiration date of your visa. Even if I started today it only leaves me about one month.  

I wonder if I could say that I am spending about $1000/mo from my original 800K I had in my Thai bank acct plus my $1200/mo in pension which would do it.  

In the event they do not renew my visa what advice to get a one year would anyone have for me? thanks or at least 3 mos or 6 mos. I have not paid any attention to how to do it.

Just now, ubonjoe said:

You could start transferring some money into a Thai bank that is equal to what you put put on the income affidavit.

Not sure why you are using the $2500 or 100k baht numbers. A income of 65k baht is needed to apply for an extension based upon retirement.

At todays exchange rate $2,050 is a little more than 65k baht.

I know that as well. But you need to show that the money was being transfered 3 months (or is it 2) months in advance. Too late for me.

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

Using the combination of savings and income to make the 800,000 with 100,000 baht in the bank you would need somewhere around 1850 dollars a month income to get the extension.

If you wanted a one year visa you would have to get one outside of Thailand.

I understand that. Your answer did not address my question. I only have a month to go before my visa expires-too late to transfer the 800K and I only get my $1200/mo in pension but I may have $100-$1000000 in a US bank, more than enough to justify staying yet according to the new rules it seems I will not be able to renew.

Your answer is confusing. Let me ask it this way.  Let's say my visa expires on Nov 1.  I used to have 800K in the bank but it is now only 100K.  I do not have $2500 a month in income but I may have $100K or $1 million in my bank (not in Thailand).  So it is too late to transfer the 800K.  Although I may be a millionaire I'm gonna lose my ability to renew for one year right?

So someone could have $100k in the bank but not be able to show monthly income of $2500 and with a month to go before their visa expires they would not be able to renew.  Makes perfect sense to me.  

And if they are asking for verification or proof <deleted> would you then need to spend 1500 baht for a letter?  

Also, does anyone know if they are checking everyone or just some? In other words is back checking policy now or is it arbitrary? Thanks

So two questions: First, can you apply one month before the expiration date of your visa? And second, there is a rumor going around that the Thai government is no longer allowing Americans to use the letter from the Consulate attesting to their monthly income. Anyone know the answers to either? Thanks

wow. Some of these comments seem defamatory.  Couldn't this guy go after the posters here for saying what they are saying about them?  I'd be scared spitless I'd get thrown in jail.