Rod the Sod

17 hours ago, kiever said:

 

Hello. First of all thank you for your post. I was trying to exactly same thing. I spent more than 180 days in Thailand until today in 2019. I have some questions:

 

I need tax residency letter for 2019. For that :

- I need to wait until first three months of  2020 to apply 2019 tax residency certificate ? Because I can only complete pnd90 for 2019 in first three months of 2020 and until end of March ? 

- I don’t want to pay any taxes in Thailand. Because I have no income in Thailand also I didn’t bring any money from overseas same year I Earned. I transferred money to Thailand that I earned previously years. In this case I will pay no tax in Thailand ? 

- in tax office , they will help me to fill tax return ? and again ,I should complete pnd 90 until end of March of 2020 ? Not before ? 

- is it ok to pay zero tax and complete pnd90 tax return with zero income - zero tax ? 

- and do you think I should get help from accountants? 

- I quoted for tax residency letter from law offices between 4500 baht -30000 baht. Your post is great. Almost for one year I was trying to find answers for this. Many thanks again. 

 

For the year ending 2019 you go in March 2020 and complete a Tax Return. They will help you and you simply tell them you have no earned income and you are doing this to get a refund of WT. They will be quite happy with that and you will not get a tax demand. Income from previous years appears to be treated as savings and is not subject to Thai tax.

The Tax Man thought it was hilarious that I wanted to complete a zero tax return and pay a late fee of TB200 for 2017, until I explained how much I would get back from Switzerland in refunded WT. Then he got it, so no problems doing that. No need for an Accountant if you follow my guide.

Glad I could help.

Cheers

Rod

I have lived and worked in Thailand and Indonesia since 2003 (also HK and Singapore). My wife is Muslim Indonesian and I am UK Christian (slightly converted for a day to get married having paid the Imam a bribe to dispense with the necessities). I was staying in the Marriott when they blew it up and was opposite the Australian Embassy when they blew that up. I own properties in Jakarta, Solo and Bangkok. I have built big businesses in Indonesia. Those are my credentials ????

My wife loves Thailand because here everything is accepted. There is no-one looking at the length of your skirt, or questioning whether you wear a head scarf, whether you are 30 years younger than your husband or whether you are gay. Basically she sees Thailand as a place where anyone can live their way of living and the attitude of Thai and ex-pat residents is largely "live and let live". Remember the Indonesian Government has declared that they have no gay people in Indonesia because there is no such thing as gay - hence they can't have any. You can't teach stupid.

On top of that Thailand has the food, people (generally), shopping, BTS/MRT etc. We are lucky and own our own apartment so life is fairly easy for us I have to admit.

She dislikes Indonesia for many reasons but is also very loyal to her country and wishes so much it could be more like Thailand in the kind of ways I have described. She dislikes the corrupt politicians, civil servants and business people. She dislikes the fact that Indonesians are kept mentally brain dead through the garbage fed to them everyday on the TV (that way they accept their lot rather than aspire for more). She is frustrated that the infrastructure is crap because those in a position to do so steal all the funding. She deplores the lack of education for the many. In fact, what she hates so much could be said about Thailand too. It is just she doesn't see it as a resident in a nice Condo in Lower Suk right next to some of the best places to eat and shop in the world! Thats the difference between a part-time resident who loves being in her home and close by, and a full time inhabitant who has to face the frustrations every day. This is why it is good to make any one place just a part-time home if you can. Keep moving, that way they can't catch you ;-))

From my perspective, I refuse to live in our home in Jakarta (that is her base for her family) although I do visit sometimes. Why? - Islamic influences in the things that I value, like a nice glass of wine or a G&T. Cost of a drink is stupid now if that is important to you. Traffic - makes Thailand look like a German Autobahn on a Sunday morning. The general influence of hard line extreme Islamic folk who for political reasons under the guise of religious reasons, who lock away the one good man that has ever run the Jakarta Administration. The millions who demo because a politician has given them a free bus ride into Jakarta and a free lunch to support his cause, when they cannot read or write, let alone understand what the hell the Politician even stands for. Indonesia could be a leading nation, but it is dragged back by it's own people stealing from the ordinary folk for their own greed (yes, I know what you re going to say..). I really could go on for hours.

In Jakarta a trip to the supermarket is an all-day affair. I live 4 kms from a lovely supermarket. Hit the traffic at the wrong time, and it is a 2 hour drive. 45 minutes to find a parking lot. Finish your shopping and it is an hour long queue to get out of the car park. It is better to catch a movie and have dinner before heading home at 11.30pm in the hope that the traffic has calmed down. And the idiots on motorbikes.....give me a new thread!

The people of Indonesia in the main are nice, kindly and caring. Same as the good folk of Thailand. Each has its problem groups of course, but if I had to make a decision of where to live, it would be Thailand every single time. My wife would agree with that. Sometimes amongst all the moaning and complaining we forget just how good Thailand is today, even if it isn't the great place that many Readers would like it still to be.

I was wondering today what happened to the off-duty copper who shot a Frenchman in Trendy. Anyone know?

On 6/8/2019 at 3:35 PM, vinniekintana said:

They want to prevent strangers paying other peope's bills   /sarc/

It is sad that you have to say "sarc" to stop the all too many numpties taking you seriously. Maybe to help them everyone should be made to write one of the following next to their comments (you can just use the corresponding number to make it easy):

1. Sarc (we like that one)

2. Deadly serious

3. Serious

4. Quite serious but could go the other way

5. Mildly serious - meant to be more funny than anything else, but with a hint of seriousness

6. Don't know why I said that really?

7. Not serious at all - having a larf!

8. Complete joke - don't be offended snowflakes

9. Don't care - take it how you want

10. Total wind-up to create havoc amongst the Numpties

Whilst it is not possible to be definitive, you can visibly spot a numpty based upon the number of inane tattoos slapped in their personage

Sadly, a similar story in most of the tourist spots in the world nowadays. I have stopped visiting these places as I don't want to be one of millions who gorge in their own self-interests. They are not special any more. Best to find a quiet corner of the earth and keep it to yourself...

On 5/15/2019 at 9:33 AM, Mike Teavee said:

It's not the Health Insurance per se, it's the constant changes to the rules & the feeling that Thailand isn't as welcoming to Expat Retirees as it once was whereas other places (e.g. Vietnam) are becoming more welcoming.

 

 

You know what, all this stuff about Thailand not being as "welcoming" is total BS and a red herring. If you want to try and get around all the R & R, yes, it is unwelcoming. If you have your papers in order, treat people the same way you want to be treated yourself, stay out of trouble (or at least don't look for it), then it is a great place to be. It says more about the kind of people that post here, than it does about Thailand and the people IMHO.

It is not about recruitment, nor training. It is about good management, which makes me laugh to even say it, because....it simply doesn't exist here.

On 3/9/2019 at 2:53 PM, Sheryl said:

 

Yikes! Is that true even if you had no tax liability???

 

I've been here some 15 years and never "declared tax". I have just put money in a Fixed Deposit so was thinking of trying to claim the refund on the tax witheld on the interest. but 15 * 200 is likley more than the witheld tax will be.

 

If thsi is really ther case then I will nto bother.

 

But most countries do not require one to file a tax declaration if no tax liability.

 

???

Hi Sheryl

When I tried to explain why I needed to have a certified tax return (without one you will not get a Tax Cert of Res) the Tax Officer thought I had lost it. I then showed him that for my TB200 penalty investment I would get back TB1,800 from the Tax Office as repaid Withholding Tax. That makes sense in itself. I am fortunate enough to have some shares in a Swiss Company and they withhold 35% tax from my dividend. With a Thai Tax Cert of Res I can get 25% of that back. That is worth about £2,200 a year to me. So all in all with the TB1,800 it just has to be done.

So whilst I do not have to fill in a tax return as I am not liable to tax, I chose to do so and pay the penalty being the only way to get this precious letter for Switzerland.

Just a rough calculation for you. If you get TB1,800 for 15 years then for a penalty of TB3,000 (15x200) you will get back TB27,000. Your choice, but I would certainly check it out.

Hope it helps.

Cheers

RtS

Happened to me last year but I had attended CW with my Agent. He disappeared and an hour later reappeared with a paper stapled to the last page of my passport. A few grunts from the same IO and all was well. It seemed to be a process to transfer my entry point to Bangkok. Maybe harder to achieve now, but I would use an agent. Cheers RtS

4 minutes ago, myshem said:

 

Hong kong is more convenient.

 

 

Agree. No corporation Tax on overseas income/profit, no income tax if dividends are taken and no investment tax on dividends. 

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

In Jomtien for me it is more like two months.

And as far as I know they have stopped sending cheques and now send some sort of voucher applicable to an electronic payment card which is only available from one bank (Krungthai). Not too hard to get one though, apparently.

Ah, for me too, and at first it seemed a bit odd, but let me explain how it works. Take said voucher and original passport to KrunThai Bank (any office). They will give you an ATM card with a PIN number. By the time you reach the ATM the money is already in the "card" and you withdraw like any other cash withdrawal. You can leave some or all of it in for a rainy day. Next year, the tax rebate will automatically be credited to the "card" without the need to go through the process again. A bit different to what we are used to, but it works fine.

1 hour ago, maprao said:

Most people file and pay tax in their home countries. Before the money ever arrives in Thailand....

 

Plus if someone's withholding tax on interest or dividend is 100kpa at per say on a modest 2% return that's like 250 million in the bank. With that sort of budget there are far better places to retire than Thailand...

 

If it is withholding tax on a return of 100k then Thailand it is. For me anyway..

I see your point, but I am getting over 5% from the divi, not 2% so the capital involved is not as great as you may think. Also, choice of retirement location is not just about how far your money will go. There are a million personal factors at play...Cheers RtS

12 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Tks for your informative post.

I have got as far as getting a tax no. (Pathumwan office). My pension has been arriving in Thailand monthly for some years. 

While I had the good intention to declare my income, the obstacle is how do I go about it. I cannot read Thai nor do I speak enough to deal with tax issues. The tax residency letter would be very useful to reclaim withholding tax back home.

I do spend more than 183 days in Thailand.

Are there tax advisors one can get to deal with the Thai side?

Tks for any help you can give.

 

Hi Letseng. I originally found my starting point from an old post on this site, and then the rest unfolded as I went along. You do not need to know much and I found (as I was told I would) the Tax Officer to be really helpful. He knows what we need to do and in my case he got on and did it. If you have not declared tax before you will have to put your hand up and ask for previous years declarations to be made for which you will pay the princely sum of TB200 for each year missed. As I have no income I am not sure of how quickly they will assess how much you owe and ask you for it. In my case, after I left the Tax Officer I had to go to a lady who photocopied the tax form for me (at a minimal cost) and then (this is the most important bit) she signs and stamps it. This makes it "real" and acceptable elsewhere. I would ask either the Tax Officer of the lady for the location of the office for Tax Residency Letters. For the office in BKK for the Tax Residency Letter in my case, just take your papers (as described in my previous post) to Manoonphol Building 2 (Google Maps), and I think it is the 8th Floor.

No need for professional help but if that makes it easier for you, I am sure a quick google will give you names in your location who will be happy to ease a few thousand TB from you.

So to answer your question, I would recommend you just grab your papers and head down the Tax Office. You might be pleasantly surprised. In effect, the resident Tax Officer becomes your Tax Advisor. He also spoke enough good English for us to get by and also he is dealing with this stuff all the time, so he will know what to do.

Good luck - should be a walk in the park all being well.

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

One can fully meet that description and still have problems when the rules keep changing so rapidly and are issued in such an unclear manner.

 

There are a host of un-thought-through  issues that the new rules create. To name just a few: 

 

- How to document that funds that came from abroad, actually did (not at all straightfoward as anyone who has followed the relevant threads can attest).

 

- Excessive and unnecessary financial transaction fees due to the way requirements are structured (e.g. have to do monthly transfers, will cost 4 times as much as sending the same amount of money in quarterly)

 

-Thai banking rules and procedures that make opening accounts diffcult for many people and make getting money out after someone's death difficult for all.

 

etc etc etc

 

And above all the uncertainty created by the constant change and vague wording of directives. Even if we think we can decipher the intent, no may will all Imm offices nationwide do so and in the same way. We already saw a wave of IOs telling people the income method was no longer allowed, only to now have new rules that appear designed to discourage any other method. Many telling people no more combo method (and the latest issuance, which does describe combo method, does it in a manner that is open to multiple interpretations).

 

Actually it is those of us trying to follow the rules that have the biggest problem. The  rule benders simply rely on agents who operate dishonestly, and nothing that has been done will interfere with that. Those people don't even need to try to figure out the new rules, just ask their agent how much they have to pay.

 

 

Ah look, I agree that it isn't easy and some things like local interpretation are a nightmare. There are others you mention like the cost of transferring funds and the proof of origination. Sorry, but if the cost of a handful of bank transfers is a deal breaker, then you are not yet ready to retire in LOS. Also, there is always documentation to prove origination of funds. If however the IO wont accept it then that is another matter altogether. Re opening Bank Accounts. Not so, if all is legit - just go the the Bangkok Bank website that sets out exactly what you need to do. Finally, transferring funds on death. Just make a will, lodge it and have done with it.

Too many people looking for excuses and reasons why not. Start to look for the positives. Tens of thousands have and still do make it work here by following the rules.

On 2/2/2019 at 9:32 AM, Pilotman said:

but don't sensible expats that retire here plan for contingency events?  The requirement for 800K and 400K is a 'minimum requirement', for the purposes of Immigration. it surely doesn't mean that it is all you need to have available to cater for unforeseen situations. 

It comes back to the same old thing. The Retirement Scheme is set at a level where the people retiring are probably ready and able to retire here, and probably have more assets to fall back upon if needed i.e. they have planned for, and are ready to retire to Thailand. Then there are the rest who have done none of this, and spend their days bleating to anyone who will listen to them that life is either not fair, or that the Authorities are doing everything they can to derail their scheme to circumvent the requirements. Seriously guys, go back from whence you came and work it all out in your homeland!

Just saying.....

9 minutes ago, mwbrown said:

I wrote up this document for the process that I had to follow here in Hua Hin.  It might be different depending on where you live and your local government offices.

YellowBookProcess.pdf

Many thanks

13 minutes ago, dsj said:

That's why I went to get my yellow book, it wasn't that difficult of a process, and now I just give them a copy of it and never have to worry about going to my embassy or immigration for CoR.

dsj if you don't mind what does getting the yellow book involve? I have asked two locals recently who tut for a long time and utter "difficult....." without expanding?

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

OP (Rod), think I'm in similar situation. Lived in Los on retirement extensions for several years. Never done a 90 day report as I fly out los every couple weeks. Lived in same condo since arrive Thailand bkk. For my extensions, never been asked for tm30. Never needed change of address tm28. etc....so my problem. I need CofR. Car licence planned. Now recently AU embassy has decided they won't issue SD to endorse residence. 

Any ideas.

Dr Jack (and Fusion58), I am maybe lucky the UK Embassy is still issuing SD for Residency, and I obtained mine this morning very easily for TB2,150. If your Embassy will not issue a SD, then maybe you have to do a 90 day report, pay any fine due and then go through due process with an Agent. I seem to remember I paid the agent around 3k last time, but doubtless a lack of pocket money has driven the price upwards. Good luck.

Always happy to stand corrected. I need to speak to my 1st Class Insurer in Bangkok early next week so I shall just ask if their policy covers pre-purchase damage and subsequent shitty repairs by an unknown third party. So just to be clear, not wear and tear (not covered anyway), not damage by a 3rd party after acquisition nor by the owner after acquisition, and If I am proved wrong I shall ask for forgiveness. If I am right, you will be the first to know.

Thanks Chris. Just part of my learning curve. He did get me one last year hence my expectation. Ah well....