JestSetter

I am transferring some money from a credit union in Canada to Kasikorn. I have done in the past, but they changed procedures. Joy!

Now the credit union is asking me to provide them with a swift code for a corresponding bank (the banker and I were able to narrow it down to Nova Scotia using some PDF I found online*), but the NOSCCATT code (she tells me)IS  missing 3 letters at the end. I am asked to contact "Kasikorn bank".

Does anyone know anything about this (new) procedure? Is this branch specific? What are the 3 letters missing?

*for a CAD fund transfer

Thank you all for the clarifications. I am 100% sure that if anyone here were in charge, the process would be send us the forms BEFORE your 90 days due date expires (within a month) before and we will sent the mail back with a 90 report that is due in 90 days after the other has expired. Could it be as easy as making ONE/TWO photocopy(ies) of a calendar (two years, if spread over 2 years) and circle all of the due dates. AO put a stamp/initial on the page when received and sends it back. They could even reuse the 2nd year for the next extension? Any issues with that idea? Any other ideas?

27 minutes ago, Eaglekott said:

Maybe they could have made a stamp there they fill in the date with a pen, but maybe to much calculation for them to figure our what date to write..

In view of the way one can influence the level of grades and the awarding of diplomas in this country (but not just this country), some of them do not understand the notion of finding the best solution. There is also the issue that they get mad when you do (while expecting that we don't) and then everyone refrains from rocking the boat, which compounds the issue. This is not just a Thai thing. Look at what is happening with Trump and their fans. But, I digress.

How much in advance can one report by mail? Is there a grace period too like there is when one does in person? I suspect one must use the same 3 forms than one uses to report in person.

What is most troubling with this is that there is NO measure to over turn the results of the election(s) and schedule a new election. In other words, this is a smoke and mirror order to seduce the "Russian" haters (or whoever will be deemed to be a terrorist state), Trump's base, some Democrats, the US military complex,... 

On 9/11/2018 at 6:46 PM, ubonjoe said:

After the application was accepted it was sent to immigration division 5 that the Chiang Mai office is under for approval. It appears your extension was approved by them on 16/7/18 looking at the stamp just below your extension stamp.

 

Oh! Interesting! So, if anything, this is when the extension could --dare I say "should"-- start. Since it took them a long time to process or investigate the request, it was after my visa expired, which in essence made the time between the end of my visa and that date a time where I was not in a grey zone, covered by the under consideration period. It makes sense --and it is fair-- to decide to start the extension when the visa ended. But, to construe the June 8 when I handed in as the beginning of the 90 day reporting is contrived. As I stated, they could simplify matters and make the start of the extension coincide with the start of the 90 day reporting. Sure, they could claim that the paper work was handed in on June 8 and this does constitute a reporting period. They could just as well have set that date at a later time esp. considering that I showed up in person after. So, it seems that everyone must have their reporting date (1st reporting) be a different date that the start of the extension, since they like to have people show up 1 month 1/2 before an extension/visa expires. Is this so?

Could you please remind me of the procedure (timewise) of doing a reporting by mail? What is the earliest it can be done and what is the last day it can be done (received by them, I guess).

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

 

 

That was the date you knew the application was approved.

I know exactly how the extensions are done since I have done 11 of them based upon marriage.

I was not putting in doubt your ability and knowledge about this, but I am trying to explain what took place when I did it. I am trying to ascertain whether or not there is something odd that took place. As you know, offices and people (esp. in Thailand) are hardly predictable. With contrived laws and processes like these maybe they are tripping each other. However, as I have been stating, as proven by posts after posts on TV trying to clarify certain processes, some might welcome the ambiguities that the laws and the processes create.Wink, wink!

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I know that you submitted your application on June 8th, it was then accepted and the fee paid on that date due to the date the under consideration stamp was done.

 If your application had not been accepted and the fee paid you would not of gotten the stamp.

 

That was the date you knew the application was approved.

I know exactly how the extensions are done since I have done 11 of them based upon marriage.

"Accepted" is better than "done", but maybe neither are adequate. We are talking about two items: an application and the granting of an extension that this application was about. "Accepted" has too many meanings perhaps like "done". They took it in. I handed it in. It was approved at a later time. Probably not on July 23. Between June 8 and July 23, it was "accepted" as in  "approved". The extension was not granted on June 8. Maybe it was, if their pile is not as big as it is or the process is not as daunting, as my name is, apart from one missed step on my part (caused by a tacit rule, which I would like to consider their mistake) in a 10 year time is as good as it gets. If she deemed it necessary to use 1 month and a half to decide, that is her prerogative. Not sure what they do. Maybe they require that time to get to my file (any file). In any case, my extension could have been approved on the last day (July 23). The splitting hair process is unnecessarily contrived, but --as expressed-- I believe it is done on purpose. Perhaps they are unaware that they are the cause of the issues, as often some people have a tough time with reality and accepting blame and people do not like to raise issues (as a result) I am not sure if it is worse here than another place, but bureaucrats with power like Imm. officers have that reputation (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Dolls_(film)). Beside, as I have stated, they don't make the laws. They apply them. It looks some also "benefit" from them (or could have benefited, as it was in my case), which could explain why ambiguities and bad translations endure. The title of the 90 days form is : "Form for alien to notify of staying LONGER than 90 days". What the hell? Is this some kind of subliminal way to trip people? Why the word LONGER? It is unnecessary and problematic. I applaud them for giving us some leeway and many ways to report. What danger was it for them to give me an extra 15 days to report, hey? Especially considering I HAD TO SHOW up physically on July 23. What insurance do they have that I am in XYZ place when I am doing an online report, if I happen to know some friends in another city, hey? They could also relax reporting (bi-annual, annual,...) for people who are recognized as being low security (that is one of the reasons of these) or who feel safe and secure in Thailand (if that is their other concerns). Pattaya is not Chiang Rai. In any case, change takes time. Did I digress?

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Done means your application was accepted and the 1900 baht fee is paid.

In your case you didn't get the extension stamp until the end of the under consideration period.

You report was due on Sept 5th looking at your stamps posted in another topci.

Well, this is not what happened in my case, if I read you correctly. My application was accepted sometimes before or on my July 23 meeting. (Not likely on July 23) I paid the fee when I handed in the documents on June 8. I knew of the acceptance of the application when I came to the meeting on July 23. So, "done" does not mean BOTH that the application was accepted and the fee was paid (at the same time). Of course, the fee was paid when the meeting took place and I learned I was approved. I (everyone) pay(s) the fee at the time I (they) hand in the documents. No? It is a non-refundable process. Again, the start of the my 90 days reporting is 22 days before the start of my extension. My extension is -in effect- one year and 22 days long, in that respect, which is odd, I think. No?

7 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Actually that's one of the few things where Thai law is very clear, you have to report if you are in the country for more than ninety days, this in itself is independent from any visa or extension dates

http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/

I am not saying that the 90 day reporting is contrived per se, but how the date is set (when) versus the start of the date of the start of the extension starts is contrived. They could EASILY make it so these 2 coincide. They could reduce the incidents. This invite errors. But, let's be honest, there are plenty of people whose palms are greased. Laws are sometimes flawed.

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The first 90 day report is due from the date the extension of stay application is done. Only the first extension of stay application counts as as doing a 90 day report.

Yes, the first one, but let's be precise. "Done" can mean a lot of things. "Handed in" is what you mean. "Done" could mean "approved, given back, ... by immigration".  The day I handed in the paperwork counted as the date that the 1st 90 day reporting started. The extension time started (in my instance), a few weeks later. How contrived can they make this process? No wonder people "fail to report" or are deemed (by the media,...) to be "illegals". not to say that Western processes are any less contrived, btw, but I have no experience with them. So, Joe, as far as you know, this is a Thailand-wide situation?

On 9/9/2018 at 8:26 PM, JestSetter said:

 

 

 

Following some discussions at the Chiang Mai imm. office with the staff and then the boss, the extension does start when the visa or the other extension ends, BUT (unless I have been scammed) the 90 day reporting starts when one makes the request (hands in the packages of document requesting an extension). I will confirm this with a new topic to see if this is true, a regional quirk, or the law, as it was asserted.

It is worth noting that, in my example, when I came yesterday, one of the ladies threatened me with the penalty (500 B./day) claiming that I was late. When I dug my heel and she brought the boss to discuss this matter, he explained there was a dichotomy. There are 2 systems, which explains the independent dates (the 90 day reporting starts and the extension starts). After a nice explanation provided by him. I kindly pointed out to him that this was a bit contrived. Of course, he told me he is not making the laws. In any case, when the issue of being late was raised by me and me being penalized, he quickly mentioned that I was not late if I made the reporting in person. Apparently, there is a 7 day grace period when you do. So, the online reporting can be done (as stated in many places) 15 days to 7 days before the reporting is due. Not sure, what the rules are for mailing. Notice that sometimes it is worth being brave and expressing one's displeasure, respectfully and softly. I could have followed the lady and pay her some nice extra money. She looked so innocent and honest when she stated it too. 

It would really help if this information was readily available (pinned on Thaivisa) for all people needing to do extensions. Ubonjoe, if I were to make a nice post with all of that information, could it be pinned?

Following some discussions in the Chiang Mai office, the extension does start when the visa or the other extension ends, BUT (unless I have been scammed) the 90 day reporting starts when one makes the request. I will confirm this with a new topic to see if this is true, a regional quirk, or the law, as it was asserted.

Thank you ALL for bringing up exceptional cases: work permit, elite visas,... 

On the other hand, in most usual circumstances (marriage visas or retirement), it is a one-year extension. 

In your experience, has that occurred or is it always one year from the end of a visa? I guess I could ask the same about an extension of an extension. Btw, this is NOT factoring in travel and trips, which I am told resets your 90 days reporting. Even so, even if you do travel, is the extension always one year long? In fact, is it the law?

In your experience, does it start when you come to hand in all the documents and wait for the decision to be given a few weeks later or does it start on the next day the visa expires, if you are being granted the extension?

1 hour ago, Arjen said:

I can confirm the opposite. I did my first 90 days after reentering the country on-line last week. And it has been confirmed.

 

Arjen.

I guess I know have a coherent explanation as to why I am having a problem reporting online. See previous post. Thanks for the posting.

I am not too sure if I am the only one who has had some difficulty with one of the AOs in Chiang Mai, but she seems to makes many errors --or find ways to have people make errors-- and berated my wife after she asked a question that was legitimate. 

Just to be clear, I have never done this type of extension or reporting before in my 10 years of being in and out of Thailand during which time I used various tourist visas (often 6 months, multiple entry types, of course).

This is what took place when I wanted to "extend" my visa for the first time. I did a visa-run on March 26, which gave me 90 days to the end of the O visa or June 23. I went at the office about 15 days (June 8 ) before.  I know we are supposed to do it before, but I was busy with other matters. Anyway, there is no information anywhere that was given to me or any website link that was given by them to know. Anyway, she gave me a meeting date that happened to be 30 days after the end of the visa (I got a temporary visa, as I see it) or July 23. (She actually made an error --or changed her mind -- and changed the Aug 2 meeting to July 23). She crossed that date out (and, initially, I thought the line that she crossed the Aug. 2 date was  a line. It is then that I realized that the date above that is the actual date that the meeting/pick up of the passport had to take place.) Most mortals would have put that date just BELOW the wrong date. I would have put it below and make sure I cross the wrong date in a clear manner. We went there as told on July 23 and had someone else give us the passport back with the extension (a new visa, in essence). No explanation. Now, strangely, she counted the start of the 90 days from the day I went to immigration to request an extension (June 8 ) not from the end of my original visa (June 23). In essence she has cheated me of 15 days. Oddly though, the end of the new extension is June 23, 2019, which seems to indicate that --in effect-- she screwed up. 

I had noticed, but dismissed the card at the end of the passport that indicates that "To notify again on ... " I dismissed the date ... "5 Sept, 2018". Actually, at some point I thought this was the date when I could report (as one must do this before 15 days ... I thought that this would be the date when I could do the online reporting. But, now, I am thinking that she made an error or will tell me that the start of your extension is when you visited us initially. I think this is not what happens. How could they cheat me of 15 days like that? Do they cheat all people like this? I paid for a one year visa, not a 345 days visa! Beside, I had reported in Chiang Mai by visiting the office on the 23 of July! That was 30 days after the expiry of my visa. And now I am required to report after 60 days? Why do I need to report after 60 days? I think she made an error.

Btw, I am counting 8 dates on that page. Maybe there should be someone at immigration that could HIGHLIGHT the dates that matter to us so that we don't screw up. Of course, they do want us to screw up. Wink, wink,...

On 5/31/2018 at 2:19 PM, madisongy said:

So apparently, your first 90 day report must be done in person.   This is according to the gal who was cranking people through the system this morning at a pretty good clip.  (the guy next to her was doing about 20% of her volume).

Arrived late, got number 162 at 10:12am while they were calling for number 73.   Squeaked through just under the lunch wire..........number 162 called at 11:45.   Gal at the window slammed me outta there in about two minutes.

Hopefully next time is all clear online.

Is this confirmed by anyone? How about mailing the report? 

55 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I have seen that message come up when I did not enter the captcha after opening the page for a long time. When it comes up do a refresh of the captcha   and try again.

 

This message  actually means your record could not be found.

It can be caused by a error in the info entered in the one of the required fields. Or a entry prior to 2013 or a new passport since your last entry. That message has been discussed in the pinned topic about online 90 day reporting dozens of times since it was started over 3 years ago.

 

 

 

Thanks, Joe. I have entered a message there, but, as stated there, I have followed your recommendations to the letter, done it multiple times, but to no avail. 

There are 270 pages of messages to read there. Could you please give me the Cole's note of the dozen times that this has been discussed because if everyone must read 270 pages to do their 90 days reporting (due to some quirk in the system, it seems to defeat the purpose of the expedient online reporting. LOL 

Thanks.

On 9/7/2018 at 4:15 PM, ubonjoe said:

I assume you are getting the message to contact your local immigration office that means your record could not be found,

If your last entry to the country was prior 2013 or you have gotten a new passport since you most recent entry either of those would be the reason for getting the message. Both would require leaving and entering the country to do online 90 day reports.

Or an error when completing the required fields marked with a *. I suggest you only complete the required fields.

A common error is not using the drop down menu for your nationality.

 

Using Google Chrome (and Opera), filling everything perfectly after checking. I get the message to go there. I even went to see them to see one week ago (after I tried) to  see if all was in order and to check on the date to use. It did not work the first time because I was too early. But, now Sept. 23 is looming. What to do? Thanks.

Incidentally, I read Ubonjoe more carefully and saw that my given names were not required for me. So, I did without on both browsers and I get the same messages. I am going to phone the number they provide too, just to see what is going on. Is it because I am doing it on the weekend?

On 9/1/2018 at 7:22 PM, wgdanson said:

Really?

 

Listen , wddanson! We need more that a puny "Really" to make an argument hold in university and the same could be said on TV. I don't expect a 100 pages' thesis, but defending bureaucratic incompetence like you do and with just a few words --and nonchalantly-- isn't helping making the world a better place. You seem to like vagueness and incompetence. I don't. To each its own. I hope you get to experience what you seem to thrive on.

Here is an example of a blunder and some loose wording. There is no check and balance and there should be effective and anonymous ways to address these blunders. In fairness, I have not tried yet the phone numbers they provide. I will report back.

As to the issue at hand, the word "arrival" without the word "last" is an indication of lack of precision that I am talking about and it causes me and others to make inferences, which puts ME in a unfavourable situation. I must assume and you know what assume stands for. Some do not question and some do not seem to address issues. The AO that dealt with my file made 2 errors. I shut up. I had to stress to find out what was going on. No excuse. She berated my wife in public when she attempted to clarify. I guess her ego was being attacked. It was my wife's error! Do they all this Napoleon's complex? Many do. Still no hours of opening on the 2nd floor at Promenada in Chiang Mai. They open the shop on time, but the lady with the verification of address forms came late when I went there. I told her politely: "May I suggest you add a few more signs. Where is the hours of operation' sign? Why is there no sign about the lining up procedure?"I think they thrive on errors they cause (they get extra money) and that is why they don't change them. Maybe they do it deliberately.

I understand your angle. You are okay with making the inferences. I think it is important to let people know that there is ambiguity as people might not even be aware that there are ambiguities.

36 minutes ago, jackdd said:

They couldn't even translate the back side of the arrival card which is used by thousands of people every day properly, and when they made a new version of the arrival cards they still didn't correct their mistake, it still says "For non-Thai resident only". So you are really expecting too much from Thai bureaucrats ?

Yes, so true. They make so many errors. I have one TM6 card's back where the stamp is covering the whole rules/explanations. I mean there is a whole big square space  that is supposed to be stamped. How hard is this? They also give back the extension without explanation and I am not 100% sure that everything is right, that they put all in there, that I am guilty of something. But, I remember going to the border and the IO getting all annoyed because I missed putting a comma in the address. She had to do the whole card again. How so stupid can you be? Beside, you would think that they would have my address from past visa runs as a reference. Well! No! She needs, they need to enter in the system every time. I bet they laugh when we put USA when they ask our nationalities, thinking we are so dumb. No! We are tired of filling stupid forms. The officers overseeing these systems are just as bad for not improving the efficiencies. But, like I said, they do not care. 8 to 5. Next. And if you wanted to complain, you can be sure they would retaliate with something more oppressive because they cannot take criticism.

One of the jobs of a bureaucrat is to design forms that are as clear as possible, so that they don't have to get these extra questions. Of course, there is no penalty for them. Their day is 8 to 5. One more question or one less, it does not matter. 

This is not the first time that I see ambiguous wording, but while I think this a trick to exploit the foreigners and get extra money from them, I also think that it is sheer incompetence (and they cover it up by saying that foreigners are stupid, which, of course, they don't say straight to our face!) Not to say that this does not happen elsewhere, but I have no experience with Western immigration officers outside of airports. I wish LOS had suggestion boxes. (Btw, where I am, they do have one. Regrettably, it is located where one does not feel depositing a missive fearing a refusal of a visa application after they have reviewed the camera recordings. I know it sounds harsh and petty, but I don't think it is outside the realm of possibilities that some could be so.)

Thanks for the support those who did offer it. I will help others after my trip to the office for an explanation.

18 minutes ago, cooked said:

Deary me, it must be very exasperating for you having to deal with stupid people all the time. On the form you are asked "date of arrival in Thailand". I arrived in 2011. I arrived again a few times.

Keep the contempt muted, shall we?

But, I  don't think I am stupid. I am just more logical than others. My prof. at university all the way to the Master's degree thought so. But, who knows how they got their degrees? LOL